Changing schools CID

taking the leap

Hi,

I currently have a CID 22 hours in my school but for various reasons I am considering looking for a new job. I am a Dublin based Home Ec teacher.
I have been in my school 10+ years so a bit unsure on what is the story with CIDs? Do I need to work 2 years before I get one? Could I get one in less time? I don’t want to waste my time or any prospective school’s time in applying for jobs that aren’t “proper jobs”! Should I ring them before applying?

Thanks

Benicetomonty

taking the leap wrote: »

Hi,

I currently have a CID 22 hours in my school but for various reasons I am considering looking for a new job. I am a Dublin based Home Ec teacher.
I have been in my school 10+ years so a bit unsure on what is the story with CIDs? Do I need to work 2 years before I get one? Could I get one in less time? I don’t want to waste my time or any prospective school’s time in applying for jobs that aren’t “proper jobs”! Should I ring them before applying?

Thanks

Back to square 1 unless youre redeployed. CID at the start of your 3rd consecutive year on your own hours.

evolving_doors

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Back to square 1 unless youre redeployed. CID at the start of your 3rd consecutive year on your own hours.

Not necessairily so. A school can offer a CID at any stage but must offer one after the 2 years.
I've seen adds for posts with CIDs ....albeit for Principal/Deputy positions.

It'd be worth a shot OP to ask in interview as Home Ec is in short supply.... is this the gap year cos of the course duration change over?

taking the leap

evolving_doors wrote: »

Not necessairily so. A school can offer a CID at any stage but must offer one after the 2 years.
I've seen adds for posts with CIDs ....albeit for Principal/Deputy positions.

It'd be worth a shot OP to ask in interview as Home Ec is in short supply.... is this the gap year cos of the course duration change over?

Yes no graduates this summer!
I have a mortgage and young family so tbh I really would only be interested in a handful of schools close to my home.

spurious

I know of someone in a similar high demand subject who would also like to move nearer where he grew up but is caught in this start again situation, since there appear to be no proper wholetime posts any more.

bobbyss

Anyone know what percentage of male HE teachers there are out there?

taking the leap

spurious wrote: »

I know of someone in a similar high demand subject who would also like to move nearer where he grew up but is caught in this start again situation, since there appear to be no proper wholetime posts any more.

Has your friend left? I think their will be “proper” jobs. Can you be made permanent straight away or given a cid? Has your friend ever asked?
I will feel very cheeky asking!!!

mtoutlemonde

bobbyss wrote: »

Anyone know what percentage of male HE teachers there are out there?

I've been in a lot of schools and only saw one and he was out of the classroom giving in-services on behaviour.

mtoutlemonde

taking the leap wrote: »

Has your friend left? I think their will be “proper” jobs. Can you be made permanent straight away or given a cid? Has your friend ever asked?
I will feel very cheeky asking!!!

I thought this could happen but someone told me that you now have to wait for the two years before CID...would love clarification.

spurious

taking the leap wrote: »

Has your friend left? I think their will be “proper” jobs. Can you be made permanent straight away or given a cid? Has your friend ever asked?
I will feel very cheeky asking!!!

No, he's still where he is.
In the old days. you got a PWT job and that was that, as long as your probation year went OK, you were in.

Now you get a full hours CID, but who's to know if the hours will be there next year/school will shut etc..

Some school is missing out on a really excellent teacher of the first national language who just can't take the chance of going back to start the CID wait again, even if it is only a couple of years.

thegreatescape

bobbyss wrote: »

Anyone know what percentage of male HE teachers there are out there?

There are currently 8 in Ireland.

taking the leap

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I thought this could happen but someone told me that you now have to wait for the two years before CID...would love clarification.

Me too! I have seen CID jobs (not home ec) advertised and permanent jobs advertised.
I won’t leave my job if I have to wait 2 years.

taking the leap

spurious wrote: »

No, he's still where he is.
In the old days. you got a PWT job and that was that, as long as your probation year went OK, you were in.

Now you get a full hours CID, but who's to know if the hours will be there next year/school will shut etc..

Some school is missing out on a really excellent teacher of the first national language who just can't take the chance of going back to start the CID wait again, even if it is only a couple of years.

Did your friend ever put their cards on the table at the interview?
I think there are big problems in Dublin with teachers. I recently received an email from my son’s future primary school to say the taster day has been cancelled as they now have no Junior Infants teacher!! My colleague told me another teacher (in the school in question) left midway through the year as they found the rent too expensive!!

taking the leap

Sorry to derail this thread but what does rpt mean and what does fixed term mean? Is one better than the other? Thanks a million

mtoutlemonde

taking the leap wrote: »

Sorry to derail this thread but what does rpt mean and what does fixed term mean? Is one better than the other? Thanks a million

Save typing

https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/non-permanent-teachers/what-contract-do-you-have

taking the leap

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Save typing

https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/non-permanent-teachers/what-contract-do-you-have

Thank you, ok so basically fixed term means for a specific time ie a year could be career break or rpt or maternity or secondment?

My own job was always my “own hours” under the old rules I did 4 years then I got my CID.
Are your own hours called “rpt”?

mtoutlemonde

taking the leap wrote: »

Thank you, ok so basically fixed term means for a specific time ie a year could be career break or rpt or maternity or secondment?

My own job was always my “own hours” under the old rules I did 4 years then I got my CID.
Are your own hours called “rpt”?

Always try for RPT contracts but if you get two fixed term's, you are eligible for CID in year three provided there are hours in your subject. Fixed term's can start at any time where RPTs start first day of term for 12 months incl. holidays.

taking the leap

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Always try for RPT contracts but if you get two fixed term's, you are eligible for CID in year three provided there are hours in your subject. Fixed term's can start at any time where RPTs start first day of term for 12 months incl. holidays.

So 2 rpts get you cid? Can you get cid straight away from rpt? Thanks

mtoutlemonde

taking the leap wrote: »

So 2 rpts get you cid? Can you get cid straight away from rpt? Thanks

Yes assuming there are hours in year three. I asked your second question in another thread but didn't get an answer. I always assumed you could.

taking the leap

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Yes assuming there are hours in year three. I asked your second question in another thread but didn't get an answer. I always assumed you could.

Ok thanks so I must of been rpt all those years ago when I started in my own school on my own hours!
Here’s hoping re CID/Permanent straight away....as otherwise I will just stay where I am

taking the leap

Also with regard to references do they check before your interview or after? I wasn’t going to tell my work!!!!

mtoutlemonde

taking the leap wrote: »

Ok thanks so I must of been rpt all those years ago when I started in my own school on my own hours!
Here’s hoping re CID/Permanent straight away....as otherwise I will just stay where I am

You probably had and had to wait for your fifth year for CID. You won't get permanent/CID straightaway and will have to reinterview after your first year. You have an in demand subject and I've seen lots of maternity leaves in the past year but I haven't seen a position offering a CID/permanency in any subject.

mtoutlemonde

taking the leap wrote: »

Also with regard to references do they check before your interview or after? I wasn’t going to tell my work!!!!

I presume after you've been interviewed - they wouldn't check all applicants references - it would take too long.

taking the leap

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

You probably had and had to wait for your fifth year for CID. You won't get permanent/CID straightaway and will have to reinterview after your first year. You have an in demand subject and I've seen lots of maternity leaves in the past year but I haven't seen a position offering a CID/permanency in any subject.

Ok on educationposts at the minute there are 3 permanent home ec jobs!

mtoutlemonde

taking the leap wrote: »

Ok on educationposts at the minute there are 3 permanent home ec jobs!

That's very unusual...maybe principals are fed up interviewing and watching people come and go.

r93kaey5p2izun

There are currently 9 permanent second level jobs advertised - 8 in Dublin, and one full time CID. That doesn't include ETB positions. There were several last year too. I was offered two permanent Maths jobs in Dublin last summer. My former school appointed two people permanent straight away last August too. I know of 5 permanent positions that weren't filled in Dublin for this year. I think you have a decent chance of getting permanent in Dublin with Home Ec.

taking the leap

Donovan Limited Pinhole wrote: »

There are currently 9 permanent second level jobs advertised - 8 in Dublin, and one full time CID. That doesn't include ETB positions. There were several last year too. I was offered two permanent Maths jobs in Dublin last summer. My former school appointed two people permanent straight away last August too. I know of 5 permanent positions that weren't filled in Dublin for this year. I think you have a decent chance of getting permanent in Dublin with Home Ec.

Ok wow! Were both of the jobs you were offered advertised as permanent? Thank you

r93kaey5p2izun

taking the leap wrote: »

Ok wow! Were both of the jobs you were offered advertised as permanent? Thank you

One was a voluntary school and it was advertised as permanent. One was an ETB where you apply for any positions arising in any subject in any school, the letter inviting to interview said it was permanent.

taking the leap

Donovan Limited Pinhole wrote: »

One was a voluntary school and it was advertised as permanent. One was an ETB where you apply for any positions arising in any subject in any school, the letter inviting to interview said it was permanent.

Ok that was great...well done
I have my eye on a job but it is not advertised as permanent it’s rpt

Snapgal

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Always try for RPT contracts but if you get two fixed term's, you are eligible for CID in year three provided there are hours in your subject. Fixed term's can start at any time where RPTs start first day of term for 12 months incl. holidays.

Does any of the hours have to be your own? I was covering a job share and always thought you had to have your own hours in year 3 - turned down a job share in school I liked working in last year in favor for a school where they were offering me full hours RPT. Contract system of hours and conditions in Ireland is so ridiculous. I left a permanent position to move closer home four years ago - still not CID and I have Irish.

mtoutlemonde

Snapgal wrote: »

Does any of the hours have to be your own? I was covering a job share and always thought you had to have your own hours in year 3 - turned down a job share in school I liked working in last year in favor for a school where they were offering me full hours RPT. Contract system of hours and conditions in Ireland is so ridiculous. I left a permanent position to move closer home four years ago - still not CID and I have Irish.

Jobshare hours are your own hours. If I were in your position, I would also have taken the full hours RPT contract because the job sharer may only be taking one year or worse than that two, leaving you unemployed again after two full years in the school.

Blaizes

Am I wrong in thinking that the difficulty in going for an RPT job interview is that someone may have already completed year one in the school, yet the school are obliged to re interview ( even though they may be happy with the teacher who has completed year one and want to re employ them) and as such the other interview attendees may be at nothing having given up their time, put themselves at expense to get to the interview, expended their energy to put in a good interview performance and still get nothing at the end... Because the school were happy with the original teacher all along, wanted to reemploy them and just had to go through the motions and charade of re interviewing.What a waste of time for all concerned!

thegreatescape

Blaizes wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that the difficulty in going for an RPT job interview is that someone may have already completed year one in the school, yet the school are obliged to re interview ( even though they may be happy with the teacher who has completed year one and want to re employ them) and as such the other interview attendees may be at nothing having given up their time, put themselves at expense to get to the interview, expended their energy to put in a good interview performance and still get nothing at the end... Because the school were happy with the original teacher all along, wanted to reemploy them and just had to go through the motions and charade of re interviewing.What a waste of time for all concerned!

You're not wrong at all. This is the current system in Ireland, a joke!

djemba djemba

Blaizes wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that the difficulty in going for an RPT job interview is that someone may have already completed year one in the school, yet the school are obliged to re interview ( even though they may be happy with the teacher who has completed year one and want to re employ them) and as such the other interview attendees may be at nothing having given up their time, put themselves at expense to get to the interview, expended their energy to put in a good interview performance and still get nothing at the end... Because the school were happy with the original teacher all along, wanted to reemploy them and just had to go through the motions and charade of re interviewing.What a waste of time for all concerned!

Spot on. From experience and observations any interview in June are mainly for re-employment. August it seems when the job is genuinely up for grabs.

Millem

Blaizes wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that the difficulty in going for an RPT job interview is that someone may have already completed year one in the school, yet the school are obliged to re interview ( even though they may be happy with the teacher who has completed year one and want to re employ them) and as such the other interview attendees may be at nothing having given up their time, put themselves at expense to get to the interview, expended their energy to put in a good interview performance and still get nothing at the end... Because the school were happy with the original teacher all along, wanted to reemploy them and just had to go through the motions and charade of re interviewing.What a waste of time for all concerned!

Tbh I would think anything is up for grabs. Where I work is a perfect example. God only knows who gets what jobs!! I have seen shocking things.

This is from a rpt ad I saw “This vacancy is subject to sanction by DES and may lead to permanency for the right candidate..“
It sounds like they don’t have anyone.

I know someone who is in a job and it has been readvertised and it says “fixed term”. Hopefully the girl will get rehired. It is a secondment.

I read in Irish Times on Monday that a survey of principals and vice principals said Irish (1st) and Home Ec (2nd) were the two subjects that they found hardest to recruit and retain staff in.

Snapgal

Blaizes wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that the difficulty in going for an RPT job interview is that someone may have already completed year one in the school, yet the school are obliged to re interview ( even though they may be happy with the teacher who has completed year one and want to re employ them) and as such the other interview attendees may be at nothing having given up their time, put themselves at expense to get to the interview, expended their energy to put in a good interview performance and still get nothing at the end... Because the school were happy with the original teacher all along, wanted to reemploy them and just had to go through the motions and charade of re interviewing.What a waste of time for all concerned!

Not always the case. I was not rehired after giving so much to a school due to parochial politics.Even in my old school where I was permanent over 10 years we lost a few fantastic teachers already in the school who achieved so much for the school lost out on full hrs or being CID due to relations of management straight out of college wanting a job. It is such a farcical system and this is never discussed in the media.

Seámus-Púbach

Similar to the OP I have 22hr CID Maths teaching job in my current school in Dublin. I'm keen to move West closer to home and with the system the way it is I'm resigned to having to start from the bottom again and working my way up again.
My dilemma is I looked, admittedly half heartedly, last year and very few positions were advertised. Am I foolish to start throwing CVs randomly into schools with no advertisements for posts? Ideally I will move this year but at the same time I won't move for the sake off it. I genuinely have a really good number where I am.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Seámus-Púbach wrote: »

Similar to the OP I have 22hr CID Maths teaching job in my current school in Dublin. I'm keen to move West closer to home and with the system the way it is I'm resigned to having to start from the bottom again and working my way up again.
My dilemma is I looked, admittedly half heartedly, last year and very few positions were advertised. Am I foolish to start throwing CVs randomly into schools with no advertisements for posts? Ideally I will move this year but at the same time I won't move for the sake off it. I genuinely have a really good number where I am.

If I were you I would be talking to any teachers you know back home. They will know if jobs are real jobs or just readvertising a job that’s already filled. Even get chatting to local teachers / principals over the summer, tell them you are only willing to move for a genuine job with chance of CID and ask them to let you know if anything arises. If you aren’t in a rush, you can wait till such a job comes up.

Snapgal

Jaycee Curved Undershorts wrote: »

If I were you I would be talking to any teachers you know back home. They will know if jobs are real jobs or just readvertising a job that’s already filled. Even get chatting to local teachers / principals over the summer, tell them you are only willing to move for a genuine job with chance of CID and ask them to let you know if anything arises. If you aren’t in a rush, you can wait till such a job comes up.

Be careful with what principals you talk to. I left a CID job after 12 years after principal promised me I would be CID. It was job share originally advertised which I turned down first but principal promised me that he would give me 22 hrs including my own 11 of which leads to CID and teacher would retire in the next year. I have so called subjects Irish and MFL where no school can find a teacher ( roll eyes) Did so much for school including fantastic feedback from inspector in my class at the end of year in a WSE. I examine up to leaving cert oral and written exams. Fast forward a year teacher retires and both my subjects advertising separately 22 hrs - I get nothing!!! Even way I am treated coming up to both interviews ( of which I had to keep emailing principal and only told two-days before when it was on and on a Saturday morning) is appalling. Have done subbing and short term work since then but my advice is after my experience to be very careful as a new teachers after so long in an old school. A few jealous teachers can stab you in the back so don’t reveal too much of what you have achieved to staff as a new staff member.

Millem

Snapgal wrote: »

Be careful with what principals you talk to. I left a CID job after 12 years after principal promised me I would be CID. It was job share originally advertised which I turned down first but principal promised me that he would give me 22 hrs including my own 11 of which leads to CID and teacher would retire in the next year. I have so called subjects Irish and MFL where no school can find a teacher ( roll eyes) Did so much for school including fantastic feedback from inspector in my class at the end of year in a WSE. I examine up to leaving cert oral and written exams. Fast forward a year teacher retires and both my subjects advertising separately 22 hrs - I get nothing!!! Even way I am treated coming up to both interviews ( of which I had to keep emailing principal and only told two-days before when it was on and on a Saturday morning) is appalling. Have done subbing and short term work since then but my advice is after my experience to be very careful as a new teachers after so long in an old school. A few jealous teachers can stab you in the back so don’t reveal too much of what you have achieved to staff as a new staff member.

Snap gal that is awful. Are you in Dublin?

Snapgal

Millem wrote: »

Snap gal that is awful. Are you in Dublin?

I know. Pepple dont hear half the horrible stories in teaching at all - everyone is afraid to speak out in this country. No, I was in the east for over 12 years and moved for that job that was promised to me. Since then there was in a lovely school where there was redeployment and took a job share in another county - about 1 hr communte from me. Was a lovely school and have to say that school my confidence was brought back - I was an oral examiner twice in that school when I was teaching in the east. Such a big school but they remembered how kind I was to students. Both staff/managemt and students really appreciated me. Was in a very low state after what happened to me in other school - was nearly going to give up teaching but my confidence came back. My LC students bought me beautuful present and five of them achieved H1s. Only offer school could give me was another job share but a job in my home county about
40 min commute with own hrs 22 hrs turned up so took it. Again, it is the time of year where I dont know if I will get back. Have heard of few teachers not getting back and studenta tired of turnover of staff in my subject so havw started the job hunt for another summer - again since leaving CID four years ago

Millem

Snapgal wrote: »

I know. Pepple dont hear half the horrible stories in teaching at all - everyone is afraid to speak out in this country. No, I was in the east for over 12 years and moved for that job that was promised to me. Since then there was in a lovely school where there was redeployment and took a job share in another county - about 1 hr communte from me. Was a lovely school and have to say that school my confidence was brought back - I was an oral examiner twice in that school when I was teaching in the east. Such a big school but they remembered how kind I was to students. Both staff/managemt and students really appreciated me. Was in a very low state after what happened to me in other school - was nearly going to give up teaching but my confidence came back. My LC students bought me beautuful present and five of them achieved H1s. Only offer school could give me was another job share but a job in my home county about
40 min commute with own hrs 22 hrs turned up so took it. Again, it is the time of year where I dont know if I will get back. Have heard of few teachers not getting back and studenta tired of turnover of staff in my subject so havw started the job hunt for another summer - again since leaving CID four years ago

That is awful. If you had taken job share year 2 then even did another job share there year 3 would you of gotten a CID?

Blaizes

Snapgal wrote: »

Blaizes wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking that the difficulty in going for an RPT job interview is that someone may have already completed year one in the school, yet the school are obliged to re interview ( even though they may be happy with the teacher who has completed year one and want to re employ them) and as such the other interview attendees may be at nothing having given up their time, put themselves at expense to get to the interview, expended their energy to put in a good interview performance and still get nothing at the end... Because the school were happy with the original teacher all along, wanted to reemploy them and just had to go through the motions and charade of re interviewing.What a waste of time for all concerned!

Not always the case. I was not rehired after giving so much to a school due to parochial politics.Even in my old school where I was permanent over 10 years we lost a few fantastic teachers already in the school who achieved so much for the school lost out on full hrs or being CID due to relations of management straight out of college wanting a job. It is such a farcical system and this is never discussed in the media.

Yes totally get what you are saying, posted about this on another thread the kind of parish pump politics thing where the person with the local connection or a relative of school principal/ management gets the job, it’s almost a tired topic at this stage because it seems to be going on all the time yet nothing ever changes.

Snapgal

Millem wrote: »

That is awful. If you had taken job share year 2 then even did another job share there year 3 would you of gotten a CID?

Believe me it was a massive decision to take but more than likely teacher who had taken job share was coming back in year 3 - where would that leave me? Back to square one again. Also it was in another county so hence realistically would have to move again. This position I am in now arose due to teacher retiring. Full hours. I have just come to conclusion that if this does not work out for me due to parochial/gaa politics am leaving teaching. After 16 years experience, almost 5 years after leaving my own permanent decision and and farce of a recruitment system am so tired of it and need to think of my future at my age - I have dedicated so much of my life to teaching and seeing way other teachers are treated am just so tired by it

taking the leap

Some scary stories here! Is educationposts the best place where jobs are advertised?
Does anyone know when city of dub vec advertise?
Thanks

solerina

djemba djemba wrote: »

Spot on. From experience and observations any interview in June are mainly for re-employment. August it seems when the job is genuinely up for grabs.

Not always,we have had a few in the last three years re interview and not get the job...they thought it was just a formality !! replaced by outsiders in most instances.

taking the leap

solerina wrote: »

Not always,we have had a few in the last three years re interview and not get the job...they thought it was just a formality !! replaced by outsiders in most instances.

This happened in my school too.

From closing date does anyone know when interviews take place? A few jobs eg etb closing this week or last week....how long would it take them to short list?

Thanks

Blaizes

Snapgal wrote: »

Millem wrote: »

That is awful. If you had taken job share year 2 then even did another job share there year 3 would you of gotten a CID?

Believe me it was a massive decision to take but more than likely teacher who had taken job share was coming back in year 3 - where would that leave me? Back to square one again. Also it was in another county so hence realistically would have to move again. This position I am in now arose due to teacher retiring. Full hours. I have just come to conclusion that if this does not work out for me due to parochial/gaa politics am leaving teaching. After 16 years experience, almost 5 years after leaving my own permanent decision and and farce of a recruitment system am so tired of it and need to think of my future at my age - I have dedicated so much of my life to teaching and seeing way other teachers are treated am just so tired by it

Really hope it works out for you but you are right recruitment system is a farce, with all that teaching experience no way should you be turfed out but valued and welcomed onto a teaching staff as an asset with automatic CID rights. When will they get it right?!!

Corkgirl18

solerina wrote: »

Not always,we have had a few in the last three years re interview and not get the job...they thought it was just a formality !! replaced by outsiders in most instances.

Yep you never know. I got into my current school by being given the job over someone who had been in the school a year already.

Blaizes

solerina wrote: »

djemba djemba wrote: »

Spot on. From experience and observations any interview in June are mainly for re-employment. August it seems when the job is genuinely up for grabs.

Not always,we have had a few in the last three years re interview and not get the job...they thought it was just a formality !! replaced by outsiders in most instances.[/quote

And that’s why people will and do leave teaching.

taking the leap

Hi all,
Just wondering how long does it take (after closing date) for shortlisting to take place?
Thanks