Sensor Controlled Traffic Signals in Dublin

LPC786

I have noticed most the Traffic signals in Dublin are controlled by sensors. As soon as a vehicle comes in the range of the sensor it turns the signal to green and the vehicle can move. Thats why you will find most of the signals on green at night when there is less traffic

Where i live in tallaght there is a toad which says buses only. Sometimes after entering the lane most of the drivers realise they have entered a wrong lane and stop well short of the white line and not coming within the range of sensor. Consequently the signal remains red and it causes huge built up of cars behind. Its only after waiting for sometime in frustration or if someone from behind honks the horn that the front car moves a little and traffic starts flowing smoothly again. In order for a smooth flow of traffic RSA must start a guidance programme for drivers to at least reach up to the white line

magicbastarder

LPC786 wrote: »

RSA must start a guidance programme for drivers to at least reach up to the white line

if you ask me, the RSA need to start a campaign for drivers to *stop* at the white line.

DaveyDave

In my experience the sensors are 2-3 car lengths before the line, so the car doesn't have to sit on it. It just has to pass it so the light knows it's approaching, I've noticed a few lights near me in Lucan will change as I'm approaching. It's odd that the road you mentioned is long enough for a line of traffic but they put the sensor close to the line.

Maybe contact the council or local politician to let them know it's an issue? Maybe the sensor could be moved in the future.

AlekSmart

On the subject of sensors,Leeson St Bridge junction has a brace of new pole mounted devices at each corner...but they could be related to Brexit I suppose ??

Twenty Grand

magicbastarder wrote: »

if you ask me, the RSA need to start a campaign for drivers to *stop* at the white line.

Have them near my house on a junction.

You get the usual eejits pull way past the line, then get stuck as the light won't change until a second car comes behind them and sits on the sensor.

coylemj

People turning right who wait at the white line in the right turning lane when the green light is solid is what gets my goat. They fail to notice the white square painted in the middle of the junction where there is a sensor to detect people waiting to turn right. At Deansgrange Cross, people coming from Clonkeen Road and turning right to go up to Baker's Corner do this all the time whereas people coming from Blackrock turning right for Foxrock Church almost always scoot out into the middle of the junction as soon as the light goes green.

I was once at the top of Kill Lane at Foxock Church waiting for the lights at the N11 junction to change and they were on red for an age. It eventually occurred to me that the two cars at the head of each lane had stopped short of the sensor. The second car to arrive probably reckoned that the first car was already at the line so she stopped beside her.

GreeBo

coylemj wrote: »

People turning right who wait at the white line in the right turning lane when the green light is solid is what gets my goat. They fail to notice the white square painted in the middle of the junction where there is a sensor to detect people waiting to turn right. At Deansgrange Cross, people coming from Clonkeen Road and turning right to go up to Baker's Corner do this all the time whereas people coming from Blackrock turning right for Foxrock Church almost always scoot out into the middle of the junction as soon as the light goes green.

This can be confusing if you dont know the junction as sometimes the arrow is first and sometimes last, so you risk getting stranded.

bikeman1

A classic example of the OP is on Philipsburg Avenue heading towards Fairview at the narrow single vehicle section. The sensor is close to the line and every day cars stop way short of the sensors. I've seen cars sit there for 3 minutes until someone tells them to move forward!

Worse still, one time someone kept beeping which caused the lead driver to hurtle through the red and then nearly into an oncoming vehicle!

coylemj

GreeBo wrote: »

This can be confusing if you dont know the junction as sometimes the arrow is first and sometimes last, so you risk getting stranded.

That applies to junctions where traffic going straight ahead gets an 'up' green arrow and people turning right are supposed to wait at the stop line for the filter.

If the green light is solid, you are never wrong driving into the middle of the junction to wait, either for a gap in the oncoming traffic or when you get a filter light.

Whether you know the junction or not is irrelevent. The rule is simple for people turning right - solid green means you can drive into the middle of the junction (even if that means stopping in a yellow box) but if the green light is an up arrow, you wait at the stop line for the filter.

Wishbone Ash

The sensors can be a pain in the arse when cycling. At very quiet times, it often means waiting around until a heavier vehicles arrives to get a green. The traffic lights nearest my house are like that.

LPC786 wrote: »

... Thats why you will find most of the signals on green at night when there is less traffic...

Most lights are not green. They may be green in your direction of travel but for every green light, there must also be a red. Otherwise there would be no need for the green.

GreeBo wrote: »

This can be confusing if you dont know the junction as sometimes the arrow is first and sometimes last, so you risk getting stranded.

Once you have entered the junction you may exit the junction regardless of the light colour. Motorists coming from the other direction must not 'go' on green if their way is not clear.

Unfortunately most motorists think green simply means 'go'.

Wishbone Ash

coylemj wrote: »

... The rule is simple for people turning right - solid green means you can drive into the middle of the junction (even if that means stopping in a yellow box)...

But only if the road you intend to enter is clear. If traffic is backed up on that road, you must wait before entering the junction.

OldMrBrennan83

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Once you have entered the junction you may exit the junction regardless of the light colour. Motorists coming from the other direction must not 'go' on green if their way is not clear.

Unfortunately most motorists think green simply means 'go'.

Doesn't work like that in reality though as people would just block every junction. Once the light is green you should be able to go.

ED E

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The sensors can be a pain in the arse when cycling. At very quiet times, it often means waiting around until a heavier vehicles arrives to get a green. The traffic lights nearest my house are like that.

Only because the LAs (their contractors) dont bother to calibrate the damn things.

And yes, thats on carbon bike. The inductive loops can see you but they're not being set to. DCC have decided to go IR/Thermal now for their new installs though.

railer201

If it's of any assistance to other cyclists here, I cycle directly along over that portion of the induction loop that's in line with the direction of travel. This will trigger the lights. I don't know about carbon wheels, mine are aluminium.

GreeBo

coylemj wrote: »

If the green light is solid, you are never wrong driving into the middle of the junction to wait, either for a gap in the oncoming traffic or when you get a filter light.

Whether you know the junction or not is irrelevent. The rule is simple for people turning right - solid green means you can drive into the middle of the junction (even if that means stopping in a yellow box) but if the green light is an up arrow, you wait at the stop line for the filter.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Once you have entered the junction you may exit the junction regardless of the light colour. Motorists coming from the other direction must not 'go' on green if their way is not clear.

Only the first car can drive into the junction, everyone else should be waiting behind the stop line for either an arrow, or for the first car to move.

The single car "caught" in the junction when the lights change is entitled to complete their maneuver, but no one else is, and this car shouldn't enter the junction unless there is somewhere for them to exit to, otherwise you are asking for deadlock.

Steve

coylemj wrote: »

People turning right who wait at the white line in the right turning lane when the green light is solid is what gets my goat. They fail to notice the white square painted in the middle of the junction where there is a sensor to detect people waiting to turn right.

There is a junction near me like this.

If you want to go right and arrive at a red, fine, when the lights turn you go into the box and the sensor eventually gives you a filter light.

However.

If you are late, you go into the box, the lights go amber - red and you think that you are free to complete the turn but the opposite side still has a green...

I would very much like to meet and ......... not going to say....... express my displeasure with whoever the incompetent asshat who wrote the logic and also his boss who signed off on it. If I had done it - I code stuff like this for a living - I would fully expect to be fired.

Dravokivich

LPC786 wrote: »

I have noticed most the Traffic signals in Dublin are controlled by sensors. As soon as a vehicle comes in the range of the sensor it turns the signal to green and the vehicle can move. Thats why you will find most of the signals on green at night when there is less traffic

Where i live in tallaght there is a road which says buses only. Sometimes after entering the lane most of the drivers realise they have entered a wrong lane and stop well short of the white line and not coming within the range of sensor. Consequently the signal remains red and it causes huge built up of cars behind. Its only after waiting for sometime in frustration or if someone from behind honks the horn that the front car moves a little and traffic starts flowing smoothly again. In order for a smooth flow of traffic RSA must start a guidance programme for drivers to at least reach up to the white line

This has nothing to do with sensors. Drivers not paying attention to road markings and signage, won't likely listen to the RSA. What you need is Garda presence at that junction when those issues occur predominantly.

Victor

LPC786 wrote: »

I have noticed most the Traffic signals in Dublin are controlled by sensors. As soon as a vehicle comes in the range of the sensor it turns the signal to green and the vehicle can move. Thats why you will find most of the signals on green at night when there is less traffic

At quiet times, the main road gets a constant green light, side roads get red. The side roads will only get green when traffic triggers the sensor.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The sensors can be a pain in the arse when cycling. At very quiet times, it often means waiting around until a heavier vehicles arrives to get a green.

As mentioned, cycle exactly over the tar markings on the road where the sensors are.

dashcamdanny

Are you referring to the bus gate in Tallaght village?

AndrewJRenko

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Once you have entered the junction you may exit the junction regardless of the light colour. Motorists coming from the other direction must not 'go' on green if their way is not clear.

Unfortunately most motorists think green simply means 'go'.

GreeBo wrote: »

Only the first car can drive into the junction, everyone else should be waiting behind the stop line for either an arrow, or for the first car to move.

The single car "caught" in the junction when the lights change is entitled to complete their maneuver, but no one else is, and this car shouldn't enter the junction unless there is somewhere for them to exit to, otherwise you are asking for deadlock.

Are these practices set out in law? They weren't mentioned in ROTR last time I looked.

Hoboo

At night time, if there's no one about, flash your lights or put on full beams coming up to lights. Goes green pretty much immediately.

Victor

Hoboo wrote: »

At night time, if there's no one about, flash your lights or put on full beams coming up to lights. Goes green pretty much immediately.

Only at junctions where optical sensors are used.

blackwhite

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are these practices set out in law? They weren't mentioned in ROTR last time I looked.

You pretending not to understand doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

If you wish to turn right at a set of traffic lights that has an arrow to the right (or white rectangular box with white arrow), drive into the junction when you see a green light. Take care not to block any oncoming traffic. Then, when it is safe, finish your turn.

So if light is green you move into the junction.
Once safe, you turn right - no restriction on whether the light is stilk green or not.


It’s the only instance where its permitted to enter a junction that you cannot immediately exit.

Hoboo

Victor wrote: »

Only at junctions where optical sensors are used.

So I'm not completely mad

Dravokivich

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are these practices set out in law? They weren't mentioned in ROTR last time I looked.

I recall reading in the legislation a statement along the line of once you are in the junction the lights no longer apply to you. You are required to clear the junction unhindered. The issue lies with other road users who are unaware of it. On phone at the moment, will look it up later.

tricky D

It isn't just lights, but also junctions and in general. Above all else, you are not permitted to crash into some one or thing no matter what the circumstances, even if you should have the right of way. If your right of way means crashing, you actually do not have the right of way. Simplest example is infirm people who are unable to make a pedestrian crossing in time. Lights will go green but the person has right of way until clear.

AndrewJRenko

blackwhite wrote: »

You pretending not to understand doesn’t mean it isn’t there.



So if light is green you move into the junction.
Once safe, you turn right - no restriction on whether the light is stilk green or not.


It’s the only instance where its permitted to enter a junction that you cannot immediately exit.

Except that it says elsewhere that red light means stop.

blackwhite

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Except that it says elsewhere that red light means stop.

You need to go and read the RTAs and the rules of the road again.

A red light means that you cannot pass the light - or the line indicating the stop point where lines are provided. In cases of turning right, the car will have already passed the light or line when they move into the junction. If there is a light on the opposite side of the junction there is a requirement for a stop line to be marked on the side where the driver is supposed to stop. Once they've passed that line, they are supposed to then exit the junction once it's safe to do so.

I've often seen idiots who turn left or right at a light-controlled crossroads and suddenly jam on the breaks because they've seen the lights for traffic from the opposite side, and for some brain-dead reason think that they should stop at them. Do you think that they're right to stop there as well?


The legislation refers to junctions with yellow boxes and traffic lights, but the same principle applies.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print#article29

29. (1) Subject to sub-article (2), where traffic sign number RRM 020 [yellow box] is provided at a junction (whether controlled by traffic sign number RTS 00I, RTS 002 or RTS 004 [traffic lights], or otherwise], and notwithstanding any indication to the contrary that may be given by such traffic signs, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter, either partly or wholly, the crosshatched area unless the vehicle can clear the area without stopping.

(2) Sub-article (1) shall not apply where a driver of a vehicle intending to make a right-hand turn at a junction enters the crosshatched area for that purpose.

So if the car is allowed to enter the junction to wait for a gap - do you propose they sit there if the light turns red and completely block the junction for a full cycle of the lights?

Dravokivich

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Except that it says elsewhere that red light means stop.

I've been searching all morning and can't find the statement I mentioned earlier. But once you are within the junction, the lights no longer apply to you. My inability to find it again, doesn't mean it's not there. It's just a pain to find this stuff again when unfamiliar with referencing legal documentation.

blackwhite

Dravokivich wrote: »

I've been searching all morning and can't find the statement I mentioned earlier. But once you are within the junction, the lights no longer apply to you. My inability to find it again, doesn't mean it's not there. It's just a pain to find this stuff again when unfamiliar with referencing legal documentation.

S.30 of the 1997 Act

Relates to traffic lights where "traffic sign number RRM 017 [stop line]" is provided. In those cases, the traffic light indicates whether or not you are permitted to proceed past the line.

Once you are past the line, you proceed when safe to do so.

Dravokivich

blackwhite wrote: »

S.30 of the 1997 Act

Relates to traffic lights where "traffic sign number RRM 017 [stop line]" is provided. In those cases, the traffic light indicates whether or not you are permitted to proceed past the line.

Once you are past the line, you proceed when safe to do so.

Which points to this statement:

(3) ( a ) A driver of a vehicle facing traffic sign number RTS 00I, RTS 002 or RTS 003 in which the green lamp is illuminated may proceed beyond the traffic lights, or beyond traffic sign number RRM 017 [stop line] if such traffic sign is provided in association with the traffic lights, provided no other road user is endangered and subject to compliance with the relevant provisions of articles 8 and 29.

But this doesn't match what I wrote above and I'm pretty sure there is one I've seen previously, that stated something much more closer to the comment I made earlier.

RacoonQueen

LPC786 wrote: »

I have noticed most the Traffic signals in Dublin are controlled by sensors. As soon as a vehicle comes in the range of the sensor it turns the signal to green and the vehicle can move. Thats why you will find most of the signals on green at night when there is less traffic

Where i live in tallaght there is a toad which says buses only. Sometimes after entering the lane most of the drivers realise they have entered a wrong lane and stop well short of the white line and not coming within the range of sensor. Consequently the signal remains red and it causes huge built up of cars behind. Its only after waiting for sometime in frustration or if someone from behind honks the horn that the front car moves a little and traffic starts flowing smoothly again. In order for a smooth flow of traffic RSA must start a guidance programme for drivers to at least reach up to the white line

They could also do with making some of them more cyclist friendly. Some of my bike routes have sensors and you literally have to cycle over the thin line of tar to get the sensor to change for you. Also, a lot of cyclists wouldn't know this. Have seen a light sequence HERE not change for a cyclist who was waiting as I approached. I cycled over the tar and told him what he needed to do to get the filter to come on and he looked at me like I was insane (I mean I am, but I was also right).
Some on quieter roads will change almost instantly when you cycle over them but again, if people don't drive they may not be aware of sensors so on quieter roads they could end up thinking their only option is to break the red.

AndrewJRenko

blackwhite wrote: »

S.30 of the 1997 Act

Relates to traffic lights where "traffic sign number RRM 017 [stop line]" is provided. In those cases, the traffic light indicates whether or not you are permitted to proceed past the line.
Once you are past the line, you proceed when safe to do so.

Do you mean the 1997 SI?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print#article30
Where did you get the bolded bit from? Is this stated in the Act or SI?

Dravokivich wrote: »

I've been searching all morning and can't find the statement I mentioned earlier. But once you are within the junction, the lights no longer apply to you. My inability to find it again, doesn't mean it's not there. It's just a pain to find this stuff again when unfamiliar with referencing legal documentation.

Maybe, but if no-one here can find it, it's a fair indication that it doesn't exist.

blackwhite wrote: »

You need to go and read the RTAs and the rules of the road again.

A red light means that you cannot pass the light - or the line indicating the stop point where lines are provided. In cases of turning right, the car will have already passed the light or line when they move into the junction. If there is a light on the opposite side of the junction there is a requirement for a stop line to be marked on the side where the driver is supposed to stop. Once they've passed that line, they are supposed to then exit the junction once it's safe to do so.

ROTR is crystal clear. It says that you stop at a red light.


Where did you get the bolded bit from?


I'm actually talking about the 'straight on' scenario, rather than the right turn scenario. I've heard the excuse that 'the first light was amber' so it's OK to continue through the 2nd red. To me, that is pure BS.


I've never seen anything in legislation or ROTR to suggest that it's OK to drive through a red light.

ED E

Don't quote the ROTR Andrew. It's vague, sometimes wrong.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've never seen anything in legislation or ROTR to suggest that it's OK to drive through a red light.

There is for amber

(2) A driver of a vehicle approaching traffic lights in which a non-flashing amber light is illuminated, shall not drive the vehicle past the traffic lights, or past traffic sign number RRM 017 (stop line) when such sign is provided in association with the traffic lights, save when the vehicle is so close to the traffic lights that it cannot safely be stopped before passing the traffic lights or traffic sign number RRM 017.

In the case of ahead of the red I think you'd not be considered to be controlled by that light if its only on "your" side of the junction but if doubled up I'm unsure.

AndrewJRenko

ED E wrote: »

Don't quote the ROTR Andrew. It's vague, sometimes wrong.



There is for amber




In the case of ahead of the red I think you'd not be considered to be controlled by that light if its only on "your" side of the junction but if doubled up I'm unsure.

Yeah, I'm aware of the limitations of ROTR, and I know that RSA have put stuff in there that isn't in law from time to time, like their attempt to bring in mandatory use of cycle lanes.


Which is why I was looking for anything in law to say that it's OK to ignore the 2nd red light at a junction - but I've never seen anything that stands up this approach.

LeBash

There are sensors placed in the road and when a car comes along, it completes the circuit then signals the traffic light controller and depending on the time of day, the time since changed and where you are it will change or start a timer.

That's the part to be careful about. Just because you see a square cut on the road, it doesn't mean you get immediate preference at night. The light may have been triggered and has a delay cycle to complete so your inching forward doesn't actually make a difference, or there is usually a road that doesn't get preference and it starts a delay on cycle.

You may think that it would be precise as to traffic volumes but it's usually a call made by the person installing the scats unit on the few hours they are there (or few mins they are looking, at least 15 years ago, that was the case). They do get looked at after though especially if people get in touch with the council.

The cyclist who was on at the start of the thread, it "should" trigger for you also. Perhaps try approach a little more centred in the lane if traffic allows. It's not the weight of the vehicle, that should trigger it, it's being picked up by a microwave. This may all have change in the last 15 years but I've seen installs and keep my eye on them, they look the same parts.

blackwhite

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yeah, I'm aware of the limitations of ROTR, and I know that RSA have put stuff in there that isn't in law from time to time, like their attempt to bring in mandatory use of cycle lanes.


Which is why I was looking for anything in law to say that it's OK to ignore the 2nd red light at a junction - but I've never seen anything that stands up this approach.

It’s been pointed out to you exactly where the legislation allows for this.
It’s where there’s a light with a line also provided. In those cases you stop at the line, or the light.

If there’s a 2nd light on the opposite side of the junction, the stop line remains the same, and it’s the colour of the lights when you are approaching/passing the line that becomes relevant, not when passing the lights themselves.


As an example - when coming down Drummartin Road there’s a cross roads at the Goat. There’s a filter light for traffic coming from Sandyford to turn left towards Dundrum that turns green whenever the primary sequence is giving a green for Taney Rd traffic.

Every now and again you see an idiot who turns the corner, and then spots the red for traffic from Mount Merrion, and stops on the corner. If you think this kind of behaviour is correct then, to be honest, you shouldn’t be anywhere near the road.

AndrewJRenko

LeBash wrote: »

installing the scats unit

Really? Did no-one tell them? You'd have to wonder what you'd have to do to activate that unit.

LeBash wrote: »

The cyclist who was on at the start of the thread, it "should" trigger for you also. Perhaps try approach a little more centred in the lane if traffic allows. It's not the weight of the vehicle, that should trigger it, it's being picked up by a microwave. This may all have change in the last 15 years but I've seen installs and keep my eye on them, they look the same parts.

There are definitely junctions that don't trigger for cyclists. I've seen many cyclists mention St Stephen's Green, heading onto Earlsfort Terrace. I'm fairly sure that Birches Lane onto Taney Road doesn't trigger for a cyclist either.

blackwhite wrote: »

It’s been pointed out to you exactly where the legislation allows for this.
It’s where there’s a light with a line also provided. In those cases you stop at the line, or the light.

If there’s a 2nd light on the opposite side of the junction, the stop line remains the same, and it’s the colour of the lights when you are approaching/passing the line that becomes relevant, not when passing the lights themselves.


As an example - when coming down Drummartin Road there’s a cross roads at the Goat. There’s a filter light for traffic coming from Sandyford to turn left towards Dundrum that turns green whenever the primary sequence is giving a green for Taney Rd traffic.

Every now and again you see an idiot who turns the corner, and then spots the red for traffic from Mount Merrion, and stops on the corner. If you think this kind of behaviour is correct then, to be honest, you shouldn’t be anywhere near the road.

Yes, I've seen those situations when turning left or right. I see it occasionally with traffic turning right from Marlborough Road onto Sandford Road, who freeze when they come round to the red light.


The situation I'm querying now relates to traffic heading straight, not turning right. I've heard people use the excuse that, once you manage to get through the first light at a junction on green or amber, you're OK to go through the second light which is by then red. I don't believe that this is right. It's just an excuse for amber gambling. If you see a red that applies to you (as opposed to one intended for traffic coming from a different direction), you need to stop. You need to plan your entry to the junction with this in mind, to avoid getting 'stuck' in the junction.


I'm looking for anything in law to confirm or deny my view on this.

railer201

For clarity concerning lights controlled by induction loops :-

These are visible on the ground as a rectangle or a series of rectangles, and it is the sides of the rectangle in the direction of travel that is being referred to.

As has been mentioned in a few posts above including mine, if one cycles directly along/over one of the side strips then the light sequence will trigger, not necessarily immediately though.

It has nothing to do with the weight of the bike, more presenting enough metal close to the sensing loop, so the sequence will trigger.

Some may act immediately, others are delayed but I've yet to come across one that doesn't react to running my wheels along the strip.

AndrewJRenko

railer201 wrote: »

For clarity concerning lights controlled by induction loops :-

These are visible on the ground as a rectangle or a series of rectangles, and it is the sides of the rectangle in the direction of travel that is being referred to.

As has been mentioned in a few posts above including mine, if one cycles directly along/over one of the side strips then the light sequence will trigger, not necessarily immediately though.

It has nothing to do with the weight of the bike, more presenting enough metal close to the sensing loop, so the sequence will trigger.

Some may act immediately, others are delayed but I've yet to come across one that doesn't react to running my wheels along the strip.

I'm far from being the only one who has experienced the problem at Earlsfort Terrace. If they don't work for lots of people, they don't work.



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railer201

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm far from being the only one who has experienced the problem at Earlsfort Terrace. If they don't work for lots of people, they don't work.

You don't say whether these lights are controlled by induction strips or not ???

If they are - you don't say whether you've run your wheels directly along one of the 'strips' I've referred to ???

Lots of lights won't work for people who don't know the basics of how to trigger them - whether they're on two wheels or four.

AndrewJRenko

railer201 wrote: »

You don't say whether these lights are controlled by induction strips or not ???

If they are - you don't say whether you've run your wheels directly along one of the 'strips' I've referred to ???

Lots of lights won't work for people who don't know the basics of how to trigger them - whether they're on two wheels or four.

I've no idea whether the lights are controlled by induction strips or not. I didn't think that traffic lights needed special instructions about special things to do to get through them. You can be sure that they wouldn't implement something that needed drivers to run their wheels directly along strips to work.

Victor

blackwhite wrote: »

As an example - when coming down Drummartin Road there’s a cross roads at the Goat. There’s a filter light for traffic coming from Sandyford to turn left towards Dundrum that turns green whenever the primary sequence is giving a green for Taney Rd traffic.

Every now and again you see an idiot who turns the corner, and then spots the red for traffic from Mount Merrion, and stops on the corner. If you think this kind of behaviour is correct then, to be honest, you shouldn’t be anywhere near the road.

Those llights need to be fitted with blinkers, so that flow of traffic can't see the lights.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2927517,-6.2294862,3a,75y,286.4h,79.43t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s9fUp-78PV4vGhsBRef4IoQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D9fUp-78PV4vGhsBRef4IoQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D18.76217%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

railer201 wrote: »

You don't say whether these lights are controlled by induction strips or not ???

There appears to be something, but it's non-standard: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3363591,-6.2571747,3a,31y,92.94h,63.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1AfCVwuu1ciZ2VMUC33zQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

railer201

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've no idea whether the lights are controlled by induction strips or not. I didn't think that traffic lights needed special instructions about special things to do to get through them. You can be sure that they wouldn't implement something that needed drivers to run their wheels directly along strips to work.

No indeed, but drivers do have to position their cars within the induction loop for the lights to trigger, otherwise they'll be there for ever and a day - it happens quite often. Drivers also fail many times to position themselves on the smaller induction loops in the centre of junctions and fail to get the green right turn arrow as a result.

There's something for the cycling associations to bring up with the relevant authorities - alter the induction loop sensitivity to pick up cyclists anywhere within the induction loop, similar to cars, buses etc..

blackwhite

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Really? Did no-one tell them? You'd have to wonder what you'd have to do to activate that unit.





There are definitely junctions that don't trigger for cyclists. I've seen many cyclists mention St Stephen's Green, heading onto Earlsfort Terrace. I'm fairly sure that Birches Lane onto Taney Road doesn't trigger for a cyclist either.




Yes, I've seen those situations when turning left or right. I see it occasionally with traffic turning right from Marlborough Road onto Sandford Road, who freeze when they come round to the red light.


The situation I'm querying now relates to traffic heading straight, not turning right. I've heard people use the excuse that, once you manage to get through the first light at a junction on green or amber, you're OK to go through the second light which is by then red. I don't believe that this is right. It's just an excuse for amber gambling. If you see a red that applies to you (as opposed to one intended for traffic coming from a different direction), you need to stop. You need to plan your entry to the junction with this in mind, to avoid getting 'stuck' in the junction.


I'm looking for anything in law to confirm or deny my view on this.

It’s been shown more than once. Lights which have a second light on the far side of the junction will also have a stop line. In those situations the lights are an instruction to stop at the line - not the lights.
If you have passed the line whilst the light is on green then you must continue and exit the junction.
You aren’t supposed to enter the junction to begin with if it isn’t clear to exit. (unless turning right)

The law is the same whether going straight in or turning - the lights on the opposite side indicate whether or not to stop at the line - not at the lights themselves. It was laid out in the original 1963 Act, and again in the 1997 SI.

Once the stop line is present then the traffic light mean stop at the line - not the lights.

railer201

Victor wrote: »

There appears to be something, but it's non-standard: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3363591,-6.2571747,3a,31y,92.94h,63.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1AfCVwuu1ciZ2VMUC33zQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.bikewalknc.org/bicycle-detection-at-traffic-signals/

Figure 4 seems to show this type of diagonally arranged inductive loop which is specifically for bicycles.

AndrewJRenko

blackwhite wrote: »

It’s been shown more than once. Lights which have a second light on the far side of the junction will also have a stop line. In those situations the lights are an instruction to stop at the line - not the lights.
If you have passed the line whilst the light is on green then you must continue and exit the junction.
You aren’t supposed to enter the junction to begin with if it isn’t clear to exit. (unless turning right)

The law is the same whether going straight in or turning - the lights on the opposite side indicate whether or not to stop at the line - not at the lights themselves. It was laid out in the original 1963 Act, and again in the 1997 SI.

Once the stop line is present then the traffic light mean stop at the line - not the lights.

The distinction between stopping at the light or stopping at the line is a bit of a moot point, seeing as they are largely adjacent to each other.


Are you saying if you were foolish enough to pass the first light/line on a late amber, and the second light goes red before you reach it, you then have to stop in the middle of the junction, before the 2nd light/line?

blackwhite

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The distinction between stopping at the light or stopping at the line is a bit of a moot point, seeing as they are largely adjacent to each other.


Are you saying if you were foolish enough to pass the first light/line on a late amber, and the second light goes red before you reach it, you then have to stop in the middle of the junction, before the 2nd light/line?

The 2nd light (normally on the opposite side of the road) doesn’t have a 2nd stop line. Both lights are linked to the first stop line before someone enters the junction.

Both first and second lights change simultaneously. Once they change to orange, any vehicle before the line has to stop if safe, and any car past the line should continue and exit the junction.

IMO it’s highly unlikely that anyone would enter legally on orange and not have cleared the junction before the lights turn red, without the lights having turned orange early enough for them to have stopped safely at the line (unless of course they are legally turning right).

But either way - you seem to be continually shifting the goalposts and ignoring anything that doesn’t fit into whatever narrative you built in your head for your latest crusade