Farm diversification

endainoz

Well lads, just wondering what lads are doing here with their land besides farming. I know most of us have to have an off farm job to keep going but I'd reckon that if a person could have something else on the go at the farm instead of having to work elsewhere. I know it sounds like he holy grail of a question for a lot of people too. But what are lads up to asside from the conventional enterprises? Growing veg commercially? Outdoor chickens? Log cabins? Glamping? Etc.

Would be interesting to see what other people are using their land for.

DaDerv

endainoz wrote: »

Well lads, just wondering what lads are doing here with their land besides farming. I know most of us have to have an off farm job to keep going but I'd reckon that if a person could have something else on the go at the farm instead of having to work elsewhere. I know it sounds like he holy grail of a question for a lot of people too. But what are lads up to asside from the conventional enterprises? Growing veg commercially? Outdoor chickens? Log cabins? Glamping? Etc.

Would be interesting to see what other people are using their land for.

I'm in the same boat. Working off farm with 30 suckler cows at home. Lads think the dairy men are working mad. I'm up at 6 to check the cows and calves and feed, off to work, back again to change clothes and in again around 8. There has to be something out there. Office work isn't for me anyway as I hate being inside.

I've been looking into snail farming lately. Its something that is pretty labour intensive but feck it, it couldn't be much worse than what I'm at at the minute! Its a growing industry and Ireland has the perfect climate for it apparently. Investment to begin isn't huge from what I can tell apart from the initial input for snails and 1 acre could potentially return 20k profit (approx). I'm looking to go visit a few established farms soon. @IrelandsFarmers on Twitter gets taken over every week by a different enterprise and I found the snail farming fascinating.

endainoz

DaDerv wrote:

I'm in the same boat. Working off farm with 30 suckler cows at home. Lads think the dairy men are working mad. I'm up at 6 to check the cows and calves and feed, off to work, back again to change clothes and in again around 8. There has to be something out there. Office work isn't for me anyway as I hate being inside.

DaDerv wrote:

I've been looking into snail farming lately. Its something that is pretty labour intensive but feck it, it couldn't be much worse than what I'm at at the minute! Its a growing industry and Ireland has the perfect climate for it apparently. Investment to begin isn't huge from what I can tell apart from the initial input for snails and 1 acre could potentially return 20k profit (approx). I'm looking to go visit a few established farms soon. @IrelandsFarmers on Twitter gets taken over every week by a different enterprise and I found the snail farming fascinating.

I went to the snail farming workshop, it was with gaeilic escargot. Very interesting and I was big into the idea alright but there are way too many ways it can go wrong unfortunately. I think a big obstacle was no processing type plant in the mid west area. Though apparently one is in the works for one in Limerick last I heard.

Its also a shame a man still has to work off farm with a herd of 30 sucklers. If things were right at all that should be able support a family.

_Brian

endainoz wrote: »

I went to the snail farming workshop, it was with gaeilic escargot. Very interesting and I was big into the idea alright but there are way too many ways it can go wrong unfortunately. I think a big obstacle was no processing type plant in the mid west area. Though apparently one is in the works for one in Limerick last I heard.

Its also a shame a man still has to work off farm with a herd of 30 sucklers. If things were right at all that should be able support a family.

It’s been a double whammy with profits dropping and family costs spiralling upwards.

If you think, what profit would 30 sucklers want to leave to maintaonnanfamiky in this day and age. You’d need an after tax income of €30k to maintain a family in a very simple lifestyle.
Say you had a €10k bps, your 30 sucklers would need to leave €20k a year, that’s €670 profit each, at a time when weanlings prices are often no more never mind profit.

_Brian

Have a friend opened a simple small campsite.
He has a great location.
He’s more than pleased with the income.

Dakota Dan

I know a man with a field with a sea view and set it up for motor homes/ caravans, he can make 1300 a day when it’s full.

Bazzer007

I'm in dairy and work full time as well. The ol lad milks the cows five days and I cover two days a week. I've an arrangement with my employer that I work 4 days most weeks once I keep on top of my workload. It works for me now but I have very little leisure time. Any profit from the farm I make goes back in for example I've updated a lot of the farm machinery. I'm always looking to diversify and have researched solar farms and going organic. Friend of mine sold an option to a wind farm company to install a few turbines. He'll get €20k a turbine once installed but non farming neighbours are fit to kill him and are organising protests. I was quoted €1200 per acre for installing solar panels. No market for glamping or other touristy ideas where I live.

wrangler

_Brian wrote: »

It’s been a double whammy with profits dropping and family costs spiralling upwards.

If you think, what profit would 30 sucklers want to leave to maintaonnanfamiky in this day and age. You’d need an after tax income of €30k to maintain a family in a very simple lifestyle.
Say you had a €10k bps, your 30 sucklers would need to leave €20k a year, that’s €670 profit each, at a time when weanlings prices are often no more never mind profit.

You couldn't call 30 sucklers a full time job..... a 100 sucklers maybe.
Still wouldn't have a viable income from 100 either, that's who should be getting €60000+ BPS .......not trying to take it off them.

_Brian

wrangler wrote: »

You couldn't call 30 sucklers a full time job..... a 100 sucklers maybe.
Still wouldn't have a viable income from 100 either, that's who should be getting €60000+ BPS .......not trying to take it off them.

That was my point

tanko

I know a lad who set up kennels for dogs on his farm, looks after them when their owners are on holidays etc.
It seems to be going well for him.

enricoh

I bought a mobile home when building my house. Put it in a corner of the yard when i finished n 4 lads working on a site locally stay there Monday to Thursday night. There gone from 7 in the morning to 7 at night, so i barely see them. The oul lad gets the dough, 200 a week, n is happy out. The lads living there prefer it to staying in hotel n save a few quid of there digs money. Not eating hotel food every night etc etc.
I might get a second one!

Birdnuts

tanko wrote: »

I know a lad who set up kennels for dogs on his farm, looks after them when their owners are on holidays etc.
It seems to be going well for him.

Certainly appears to be a huge demand for catteries/kennels anywhere near towns or cities - friends/family always have trouble getting pets in at certain times of year

Say my name

Farming types tooth removal seems like it could be a runner.

A few whacks of a hammer and chisel and then the pliers and jobs an easy one.

I rang up the dentist this morning after nearly dying over the weekend. To be told I might get an appointment next week.
It's only six years ago since I was last with them. They should be grateful for repeat customers.

€50 here for any takers for the job?

Bass Reeves

DaDerv wrote: »

I'm in the same boat. Working off farm with 30 suckler cows at home. Lads think the dairy men are working mad. I'm up at 6 to check the cows and calves and feed, off to work, back again to change clothes and in again around 8. There has to be something out there. Office work isn't for me anyway as I hate being inside.

I've been looking into snail farming lately. Its something that is pretty labour intensive but feck it, it couldn't be much worse than what I'm at at the minute! Its a growing industry and Ireland has the perfect climate for it apparently. Investment to begin isn't huge from what I can tell apart from the initial input for snails and 1 acre could potentially return 20k profit (approx). I'm looking to go visit a few established farms soon. @IrelandsFarmers on Twitter gets taken over every week by a different enterprise and I found the snail farming fascinating.

What sort of hours are you spending on farm work morning and evening. Having to do check farm twice a day is a pain this is why I never considered sucklers and working viable. As another poster said it is impossible to see sucklers being viable to achieve a full time income. It's very hard to replace a job income with another part-time Enterprise which again may have variable return's.
Another issue with sucklers is herd groups you can often have 3-5 groups of cattle across the farm leading to grazing inefficiency. I have changed my system to have two groups only in a store to beef system. This reduces workload as well. I also need to visit the farm only once a day and at times only every second day if needed. Good fencing, paddocking, good handling facilities and a system where if someone else need to check cattle all reduce workload. I also can feed cattle for 48 hours during the winter and not visit for a day. Making things efficient on farm with a job are critically important.

Another variable income along with an existing variable income is not really an answer to supplementing a farming income. What sort of land bank is need to carry 30 suckler cows 60-70 acres of middling good land??. I just think sucklers is an inefficent farming operation and is suffering because of the market requirement for lower carcass weights. In general from looking at suckler farming operation for every ten sucklers a farmer carries he would carry 15 units of a calf to beef operation, 17-18 weanling to beef units or a 20+ store to beef operation. But different skillets and money management are required

Markcheese

Dakota Dan wrote: »

I know a man with a field with a sea view and set it up for motor homes/ caravans, he can make 1300 a day when it’s full.

You need to take the good years and the bad years too... Its a short season, and more lads are doing it... But it's a growing market...

Bullocks

Say my name wrote: »

Farming types tooth removal seems like it could be a runner.

A few whacks of a hammer and chisel and then the pliers and jobs an easy one.

I rang up the dentist this morning after nearly dying over the weekend. To be told I might get an appointment next week.
It's only six years ago since I was last with them. They should be grateful for repeat customers.

€50 here for any takers for the job?

I'll take them all out for €100 and you won't need to come back as often as every 6 years!

DaDerv

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What sort of hours are you spending on farm work morning and evening. Having to do check farm twice a day is a pain this is why I never considered sucklers and working viable. As another poster said it is impossible to see sucklers being viable to achieve a full time income. It's very hard to replace a job income with another part-time Enterprise which again may have variable return's.
Another issue with sucklers is herd groups you can often have 3-5 groups of cattle across the farm leading to grazing inefficiency. I have changed my system to have two groups only in a store to beef system. This reduces workload as well. I also need to visit the farm only once a day and at times only every second day if needed. Good fencing, paddocking, good handling facilities and a system where if someone else need to check cattle all reduce workload. I also can feed cattle for 48 hours during the winter and not visit for a day. Making things efficient on farm with a job are critically important.

Another variable income along with an existing variable income is not really an answer to supplementing a farming income. What sort of land bank is need to carry 30 suckler cows 60-70 acres of middling good land??. I just think sucklers is an inefficent farming operation and is suffering because of the market requirement for lower carcass weights. In general from looking at suckler farming operation for every ten sucklers a farmer carries he would carry 15 units of a calf to beef operation, 17-18 weanling to beef units or a 20+ store to beef operation. But different skillets and money management are required

I've 85 acres, about 70 of which I'd like to think is good land. Its in the West so typically heavy. Rain doesn't suit. I'd say I'm well under-stocked at 1.5lu/ha but facilities are determining that. My father always had about 15/18 sucklers and bought in and finished a few heifers. I'm only in the game 4 years myself.

My morning is basically herding, I give myself an hour/hour and a half before I am in to get ready to leave for work just in case something is wrong. The way its set up now I have 20 cows calved that are out. I have them all in one block on 2.5 acre paddocks. The rest are on the slats waiting to calve where i have cameras. I have 10 bulls that I'm finishing on the slats as well so they are fed in the morning and evening as well. I've 10 more out in a different paddock, 8 heifers and 2 bullocks that are replacements or were born late. I check them in the evening. The evening is another round of herding, feeding and any odd job, fertilizer, rolling, topping, fencing etc. These days I'm cleaning up ditches that were cut around meadows.

My brother is teaching and he has around 60 heifers, finishing 30 heifers a year roughly. To be fair its less labour intensive in that there is more work involved with calving etc. but its just as variable. He is trying to get 8 heifers to the factory for the past couple of weeks and at this stage a few are over fat. I think every system is getting hit, there is no guarantee with anything unfortunately. This is my first year finishing bulls, and we are looking at E1/kg less than this time last year, around E500/head less per animal. I don't think anyone could have predicted that decline, its astronomical. Maybe it was just bad luck for me to go at it!

I agree that supplementing an already volatile income with another that is equally unpredictable is a bad idea so I wont be packing in the office job any time soon. I don't consider farming a burden either. I wouldn't be at it if I didn't enjoy it. I'd just love to be able to commit to it full time because i reckon i could do things better.

Bass Reeves

DaDerv wrote: »

I've 85 acres, about 70 of which I'd like to think is good land. Its in the West so typically heavy. Rain doesn't suit. I'd say I'm well under-stocked at 1.5lu/ha but facilities are determining that. My father always had about 15/18 sucklers and bought in and finished a few heifers. I'm only in the game 4 years myself.

My morning is basically herding, I give myself an hour/hour and a half before I am in to get ready to leave for work just in case something is wrong. The way its set up now I have 20 cows calved that are out. I have them all in one block on 2.5 acre paddocks. The rest are on the slats waiting to calve where i have cameras. I have 10 bulls that I'm finishing on the slats as well so they are fed in the morning and evening as well. I've 10 more out in a different paddock, 8 heifers and 2 bullocks that are replacements or were born late. I check them in the evening. The evening is another round of herding, feeding and any odd job, fertilizer, rolling, topping, fencing etc. These days I'm cleaning up ditches that were cut around meadows.

My brother is teaching and he has around 60 heifers, finishing 30 heifers a year roughly. To be fair its less labour intensive in that there is more work involved with calving etc. but its just as variable. He is trying to get 8 heifers to the factory for the past couple of weeks and at this stage a few are over fat. I think every system is getting hit, there is no guarantee with anything unfortunately. This is my first year finishing bulls, and we are looking at E1/kg less than this time last year, around E500/head less per animal. I don't think anyone could have predicted that decline, its astronomical. Maybe it was just bad luck for me to go at it!

I agree that supplementing an already volatile income with another that is equally unpredictable is a bad idea so I wont be packing in the office job any time soon. I don't consider farming a burden either. I wouldn't be at it if I didn't enjoy it. I'd just love to be able to commit to it full time because i reckon i could do things better.

For the last three years I have considered winter finishing unviable. I exited it completely this winter looking at it without attachment or being critical of anyone involved I cannot understand after the 2017/18 winter how lads considered feeding cattle for finishing this winter. You only had to look at last autumn. It was obvious that rations were going to be expensive this winter and there was a good chance of a deficit in silage. What did lads do they dived into the market bought expensive stores last October/ November to finish.

I understand that some like you have no choice with a possible longer winter but last autumn with projected rations costs looking at hitting 300/ ton lads could not have expected to make money. There is a!ways huge risk with bulls they are expensive to feed and I gave them up when the Christmas market went for Friesian bulls. I never saw the gra for finishing bulls to 450 kgs plus a 20c/ kg drop in price would hit profits hard. Processors are backing up cattle to get into May and June. 6+weeks ago I saw an article question the viability of continuing to feed heifers and bullock's rather than cutting costs and going to grass.
I am delaying starting to feed now until early mid May as I cannot see a price peak in June so I have decided cattle can be finished the slow way this year on grass and even less ration. I just hope we do not get a drought but we will cross that bridge as well if it happens.

I consider 30 sucklers a bad use of 70 aces of goodish land. Trying to make a margin off 28-30:cattle every year and cover costs is not viable. On land like that would running a good quality HE bull and killing at 18-20months off grass be more viable or less loss making. Output off ration is break even at best IMO. Drystock farming FT is not an option so lads have to make sure the dream will not become a nightmare.

_Brian

It says something about new farming when we’re using terms like “less loss making” in advice to each other.

amacca

What is the least labour intensive system in peoples opinions?

Weanling to Beef.......if you can judge and buy good ones?

I do calf to beef but its getting harder and harder to source even half decent calves imo.......I'd do a deal with a dairy farmer or farmers if they would put some of their cows in calf to decent bulls......instead of short gestation runts of aax or hex that are like buying scratch cards in terms of when one turns out OK.

Anyone see this dairy beef index having any effect on the quality of calves coming on stream?

alps

amacca wrote: »

Anyone see this dairy beef index having any effect on the quality of calves coming on stream?

No...it's over weighted for calBing ease and gestation length..

You will need to source calves from a dairy farmer who, having fulfilled his own replacement needs, will breed specific cows to specific bulls for you, under an agreement that benefits both.

Dairy breeding has pushed considerably down the road of lighter cows. Dairy farmers look for a negative ebi weighting for beef traits and a positive rating for maintenance, which is a bodyweight measure, so most of the resultant stock are lighter boned and lighter carcass. A genuine operator will direct you to the calves that are from the more traditional stronger cows...

Soon there will not be a huge difference between the B&W dairy cow and the jersey cross..

Bass Reeves

_Brian wrote: »

It says something about new farming when we’re using terms like “less loss making” in advice to each other.

The issue is when lads are reluctant to exit sucklers you have to look at reducing losses. Lads have chased this goose and are reluctant to exit. Most have headed to finishing bulls either sub 16 months or 24 months. Some even gamble and carry beyond that. When you consider that the average stocking density with sucklers is a cow/ HA and only a weaning rate of 0.8 calves/ year you can start to see the challenges to profitability. All tis before complicating the system with finishing small numbers all to spend often 12-14 hours watching a cow calf

Kevhog1988

Has anyone looked at self storage?. Caravans storage etc.

amacca

I thought about self storage but you need the location for it imo

Near a town at least I would have thought.

Bullocks

theemigrant wrote: »

Has anyone looked at self storage?. Caravans storage etc.

There are a few lads near me with sheds converted for it (we are within 5/10 minutes of Galway City ) they are pretty happy with them. I think smaller stores are paying better than just letting out the full shed

_Brian

amacca wrote: »

I thought about self storage but you need the location for it imo

Near a town at least I would have thought.

Near a city id say.
Plus it’s fine if you’ve large sheds to convert, you couldn’t build to let.

PoorFarmer

theemigrant wrote:

Has anyone looked at self storage?. Caravans storage etc.

Mate of mine just outside cork does this. Has a 30 x 25 ft barn with a lean to at each side so divided it into 3 units. Had a few different businesses in them. Mechanics, chippies etc using them and had a few shipping containers in the yard that tradesmen rented for storage. Handy few bobs for feck all work or outlay. Location is everything for that though

Say my name

_Brian wrote: »

Near a city id say.
Plus it’s fine if you’ve large sheds to convert, you couldn’t build to let.

Is this all on the QT? Cash in hand.

I presume council rates would hammer these on farm lock ups?

ganmo

if ya were trying to do it right from the outset development fees would cripple it straight away.

farawaygrass

Would planning be an issue with self storage? And the dreaded insurance?

gozunda

farawaygrass wrote: »

Would planning be an issue with self storage? And the dreaded insurance?

Yes and yes.

I know of someone who each year stored their caravan on a farm for a set fee. Caravan was stolen. Not under either parties insurance. War ensued.

yosemitesam1

Say my name wrote: »

Is this all on the QT? Cash in hand.

I presume council rates would hammer these on farm lock ups?

Rates and insurance make a fair dent in any profit, turns 400/month into 250 net before tax for a lad I know

Say my name

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Rates and insurance make a fair dent in any profit, turns 400/month into 250 net before tax for a lad I know

That's what I was thinking.

Have family involved in retail and the biggest complaint is the cost of council rates. Which is increasing every year and based on that businesses sq footage.

Bullocks

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Rates and insurance make a fair dent in any profit, turns 400/month into 250 net before tax for a lad I know

Nobody likes to see the tax man or council coming 😂