Viewings on my current rental property

Deebles McBeebles

Hi

I am moving out of a rental property next month. Estate agent has requested a time slot when they can show potential tenants around the house. I am not comfortable with this while my belongings are still there and have never viewed a house while someone else was living there.

Can I just say no? Will there be any repercussions from this?

Thanks in advance.

Askthe EA

Well, theres a few things to consider here.

Firstly, you are entitled to whats called 'peaceful enjoyment' of the property which in effect means that you do not have to allow access to the property if you choose not to.

That said, in most leases - check yours, there will be a clause allowing for viewings to be carried out at a time agreeable to you.

By blocking viewings outright, you are then in breach of your lease terms.

Ultimately, you can block the viewings but that may be reflected in your reference so not sure how important that is to you.

Deebles McBeebles

Thanks for that.

There is indeed a clause in the lease regarding viewings. As I work full time there really isn't a suitable time within office hours (when viewings are usually held) and there is no chance strangers are coming to view while I'm not there.

TBH I'm not overly pushed if that is mentioned in the reference so long as that is the only repercussion.

Askthe EA

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

there really isn't a suitable time within office hours (when viewings are usually held) .

I wish my viewings were all within office hours. I'd be surprised if thats correct. You could always say that you are happy for them to go in for an hour or so one evening?

Deebles McBeebles

Askthe EA wrote: »

I wish my viewings were all within office hours. I'd be surprised if thats correct. You could always say that you are happy for them to go in for an hour or so one evening?

I could but I'm not happy for them to show the house at all while myself and my property are there.

I have never been asked to do this before and have never done it myself so that would suggest most people just say no. Am I wrong about that?

ED E

Its not uncommon.

Askthe EA

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Am I wrong about that?

In my experience (and mine only) yes, I've never been refused access at times that the tenants were happy with. But then, I always tried to maintain a professional relationship with tenants of properties I managed so I guess they trusted me.

Deebles McBeebles

Askthe EA wrote: »

In my experience (and mine only) yes, I've never been refused access at times that the tenants were happy with. But then, I always tried to maintain a professional relationship with tenants of properties I managed so I guess they trusted me.

What about showing part of the house? As in, they can show ground floor and outside but not the bedrooms.

Xterminator

HI Op

you signed a lease, and agreed to its terms. i think your should abide by the legal contract you signed. be reasonable!

how do you think the landlord should get new tenants? should he wait till you are out, and potentially lose months of income because you are 'uncomfortable' with what is a perfectly reasonable request that you agreed to already in writing?

Wheety

I bet you didn't inform the landlord/agent that you had a problem with that part of the lease before signing it?

pc7

I think you are being unreasonable especially that it is in your lease. The estate agent isn't going to let someone go through your underwear drawer, it is a viewing. People view other peoples houses every day, its part of the reason we have estate agents.

Deebles McBeebles

Askthe EA wrote: »

Well, theres a few things to consider here.

Firstly, you are entitled to whats called 'peaceful enjoyment' of the property which in effect means that you do not have to allow access to the property if you choose not to.

That said, in most leases - check yours, there will be a clause allowing for viewings to be carried out at a time agreeable to you.

By blocking viewings outright, you are then in breach of your lease terms.

Ultimately, you can block the viewings but that may be reflected in your reference so not sure how important that is to you.

Lease actually ended early this month, I am there for a further month under Part 4, does this change my obligations?

davindub

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Askthe EA wrote: »

Well, theres a few things to consider here.

Firstly, you are entitled to whats called 'peaceful enjoyment' of the property which in effect means that you do not have to allow access to the property if you choose not to.

That said, in most leases - check yours, there will be a clause allowing for viewings to be carried out at a time agreeable to you.

By blocking viewings outright, you are then in breach of your lease terms.

Ultimately, you can block the viewings but that may be reflected in your reference so not sure how important that is to you.

Lease actually ended early this month, I am there for a further month under Part 4, does this change my obligations?

No.

Brian201888

pc7 wrote: »

I think you are being unreasonable especially that it is in your lease. The estate agent isn't going to let someone go through your underwear drawer, it is a viewing. People view other peoples houses every day, its part of the reason we have estate agents.

I can see why it annoys people, I've been to plenty of viewings where the agent has left us free to wander around the house. Could conceivably have pocketed things from rooms easily.

bucketybuck

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

there is no chance strangers are coming to view while I'm not there.

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I could but I'm not happy for them to show the house at all while myself and my property are there.

Who would be a landlord...

this is entirely normal

i dont think an incumbent tenant has ever been in the house when ive viewed

the same way, the landlord would never have let me wander unsurpervised

Brussels Sprout

I've viewed several properties while the previous tenants were either there, or their possessions were. I have also left a property while the estate agent wanted to show it to someone in the past.
I remember one time being shown a bedroom of a prospective rental property and there was a little girl in there reading a book which was kind of crappy and made me want to get out as quickly as possible.

runawaybishop

Askthe EA wrote: »

Well, theres a few things to consider here.

Firstly, you are entitled to whats called 'peaceful enjoyment' of the property which in effect means that you do not have to allow access to the property if you choose not to.

That said, in most leases - check yours, there will be a clause allowing for viewings to be carried out at a time agreeable to you.

By blocking viewings outright, you are then in breach of your lease terms.

Ultimately, you can block the viewings but that may be reflected in your reference so not sure how important that is to you.

It doesn't matter if it is in the lease, you cannot contract out of statutory entitlements. Op is well within their rights to not allow viewings if that is their decision.

Deebles McBeebles

bucketybuck wrote: »

Who would be a landlord...

Mod Note

Keep it Civil please.
we wont bash LL's or tenants if we can help it.

runawaybishop wrote: »

It doesn't matter if it is in the lease, you cannot contract out of statutory entitlements. Op is well within their rights to not allow viewings if that is their decision.

Thank you for the helpful post.

voluntary

Mod Note

Do not advise illegal actions please.

Wabbit Ears

Id say just be a decent person and allow it.

Or, you know, be a bit of an awkward so and so and bang on about your rights and how it makes you slightly uncomfortable and how that should override any sense of decency and being an adult about stuff.

runawaybishop

voluntary wrote: »

EDIT: + consider swapping the locks if you believe the agent may have a spare set of keys.

That would be a breach of your tenancy and could result in eviction, do not do that

Del2005

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Someone wanting to make money off the backs of the less fortunate?

Who would be a tenant....



Thank you for the helpful post.

What less fortunate. A tenant can live rent free for years and destroy a property with zero repercussions. A landlord can't even show their property without a tenant complaining.

voluntary

runawaybishop wrote: »

That would be a breach of your tenancy and could result in eviction, do not do that

Why would that be a breach of tenancy?

Brego888

I think you are being unnecessary awkward. Bag up some of your most valuable items and store in your car or elsewhere during viewings.

voluntary

voluntary wrote: »

EDIT: + consider swapping the locks if you believe the agent may have a spare set of keys.

If a tenant of mine was uncomfortable with viewing being held I would (and have done) organize the viewings after they vacate the property. You're well within your rights to say no, I'd play it cute though and wouldn't say that you have a blanket objection to ANY and ALL viewings, just say they have to come up with a time that suits. Then dismiss any suggestions as unsuitable.


The advice in the quote above is a risky manoeuvre. Paying €150 to get the locks changed plus another 150 out of your deposit to get them changed back? Really?

Deebles McBeebles

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Id say just be a decent person and allow it.

Or, you know, be a bit of an awkward so and so and bang on about your rights and how it makes you slightly uncomfortable and how that should override any sense of decency and being an adult about stuff.

Yeah, question nothing. Good idea.

Del2005 wrote: »

What less fortunate. A tenant can live rent free for years and destroy a property with zero repercussions. A landlord can't even show their property without a tenant complaining.

I pay my rent and the house is in better condition than when I moved in so if you could not lump all tenants in to the one anecdote that would be great.

Thanks lads.

runawaybishop

voluntary wrote: »

Why would that be a breach of tenancy?

Landlord requires emergency access to the property and they are not your locks to go messing with.

voluntary

Del2005 wrote: »

What less fortunate. A tenant can live rent free for years and destroy a property with zero repercussions. A landlord can't even show their property without a tenant complaining.

Landlord is not in possession of the property during rental. It's so obvious he can't just invite people to walk around. I would have thought this is obvious. Tenants move out and then landlord does the viewings. Not the other way around.

voluntary

runawaybishop wrote: »

Landlord requires emergency access to the property and they are not your locks to go messing with.

Show me the legislation behind this. Locks are pretty much personal. You live in a house you want assurance nobody else has keys. What if landlord hasn't changed the locks after the previous tenants? What if they also have keys?

Anyway, in emergencies there's usually a way in. Break a door or window. Fire brigade can also assist in emergencies.

runawaybishop

voluntary wrote: »

Show me the legislation behind this. Locks are pretty much personal. You live in a house you want assurance nobody else has keys. What if landlord hasn't changed the locks after the previous tenants? What if they also have keys?

Anyway, in emergencies there's usually a way in. Break a door or window. Fire brigade can also assist in emergencies.

You want legislation that shows you don't own someone else's house?

Deebles McBeebles

voluntary wrote: »

Show me the legislation behind this. Locks are pretty much personal. You live in a house you want assurance nobody else has keys. What if landlord hasn't changed the locks after the previous tenants? What if they also have keys?

Anyway, in emergencies there's usually a way in. Break a door or window. Fire brigade can also assist in emergencies.

LL should be forced to change locks after every tenancy but you know how it would be enforced. Much like the rest of the rules applying to them.

I wouldn't change the locks though, that really is a clear breach of the lease.

Landlord has a duty and obligation to right or repair something in the property that could have a detrimental effect on neighbours etc. Good luck paying out on the water damage to the flat below yours because the landlord couldn't get in after you left the tap running.

Gumbo

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

LL should be forced to change locks after every tenancy but you know how it would be enforced. Much like the rest of the rules applying to them.

Those rules apply to both Landlords and Tenants. There are bad apples and extremely sour apples in both baskets.

voluntary

voluntary wrote: »

Show me the legislation behind this. Locks are pretty much personal. You live in a house you want assurance nobody else has keys. What if landlord hasn't changed the locks after the previous tenants? What if they also have keys?

You ask to have them changed. Simple.


Next question.

voluntary

Deleted User wrote: »

If a tenant of mine was uncomfortable with viewing being held I would (and have done) organize the viewings after they vacate the property. You're well within your rights to say no, I'd play it cute though and wouldn't say that you have a blanket objection to ANY and ALL viewings, just say they have to come up with a time that suits. Then dismiss any suggestions as unsuitable.


The advice in the quote above is a risky manoeuvre. Paying €150 to get the locks changed plus another 150 out of your deposit to get them changed back? Really?

If you're single then it may be fine. But would you let stranger to your home when you have family with kids? Hell no.

The advice given by the other poster to pack your stuff and put in the car for the time of viewing is just mad.

Deebles McBeebles

Del2005 wrote: »

What less fortunate. A tenant can live rent free for years and destroy a property with zero repercussions. A landlord can't even show their property without a tenant complaining.

kceire...is this not considered tenant bashing then?

voluntary

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I wouldn't change the locks though, that really is a clear breach of the lease.

Is it written in the lease that you are not allowed to change locks?

voluntary

voluntary wrote: »

If you're single then it may be fine. But would you let stranger to your home when you have family with kids? Hell no.

The advice given by the other poster to pack your stuff and put in the car for the time of viewing is just mad.

Read the first part of my post again, I'm advocating refusing access to allow viewings on an ad hoc basis so that there is nobody allowed into your home whether you are there or not. Changing the locks, however, is asking for trouble.

runawaybishop

voluntary wrote: »

Is it written in the lease that you are not allowed to change locks?

It doesn't matter if it's in the lease or not. Tenants are not allowed to damage property or make material changes. It's not your house, your door or your locks. Additionally landlords require emergency access

Deebles McBeebles

voluntary wrote: »

Is it written in the lease that you are not allowed to change locks?

Yep.

Gumbo

Mod Note
Any more talk on illegal activity will result in a BAN. No warning, no infraction, a BAN.

Changing the locks on a property that you do not own is illegal.


Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2.../en/print.html


16 - In addition to the obligations arising by or under any other enactment, a tenant of a dwelling shall—
(l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord

17.—(1) In section 16 —
“alter or improve”, in relation to a dwelling, includes—
(a) alter a locking system on a door giving entry to the dwelling,

voluntary

Deleted User wrote: »

Landlord has a duty and obligation to right or repair something in the property that could have a detrimental effect on neighbours etc. Good luck paying out on the water damage to the flat below yours because the landlord couldn't get in after you left the tap running.

One of the reasons insurance goes up as soon as you mention the property is going to be rented out.

voluntary

kceire wrote: »

Mod Note
Any more talk on illegal activity will result in a BAN. No warning, no infraction, a BAN.

Changing the locks on a property that you do not own is illegal.

Ok, if that's the case than fair enough.
Could you point to a regulation saying so though?

Quick googling shows different results, but nothing specifically regarding Ireland.

Gumbo

voluntary wrote: »

One of the reasons insurance goes up as soon as you mention the property is going to be rented out.

Not strictly true.
Landlords insurance can be significantly cheaper as you are only insuring the property and no contents. The contents are the tenants responsibility.

voluntary

voluntary wrote: »

Ok, if that's the case than fair enough.
Could you point to a regulation saying so though?

Quick googling shows different results, but nothing specifically regarding Ireland.

16 - In addition to the obligations arising by or under any other enactment, a tenant of a dwelling shall—
(l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord



17.—(1) In section 16 —
“alter or improve”, in relation to a dwelling, includes—


(a) alter a locking system on a door giving entry to the dwelling,




Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print.html

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

16 - In addition to the obligations arising by or under any other enactment, a tenant of a dwelling shall—
(l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord



17.—(1) In section 16 —
“alter or improve”, in relation to a dwelling, includes—


(a) alter a locking system on a door giving entry to the dwelling,




Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print.html

Thanks.
If you don't mind, i'll ad that to my mod post.

voluntary

Deleted User wrote: »

16 - In addition to the obligations arising by or under any other enactment, a tenant of a dwelling shall—
(l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord



17.—(1) In section 16 —
“alter or improve”, in relation to a dwelling, includes—


(a) alter a locking system on a door giving entry to the dwelling,




Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print.html

Thank you. I'm surprised to see this but admit being mistaken.

ashes2014

runawaybishop wrote: »

It doesn't matter if it is in the lease, you cannot contract out of statutory entitlements. Op is well within their rights to not allow viewings if that is their decision.

Thats that then. If she doesn't want to allow access then she does not have to.

Deebles McBeebles

ashes2014 wrote: »

Thats that then. If she doesn't want to allow access then she does not have to.

I have taken a mixture of runawaybishop and shifty's advice. Said I am working solid for the next few weeks and they can get back to me after that. At that point I will again stall until I have moved out.

Thanks to the users mentioned.

.......

What is the purpose of denying access for viewings?

Im not clear what the issue is?