Dublin Pride 2019

Ten of Swords

Happy with the new route this year.

I'm hoping that Pride this year will be an improvement on the last couple of years which seemed to have been more about sponsorship and less about, well, pride!

Route

hotmail.com

Will it be a smaller parade now it's going down O'Connell Street? Great news it's going back down the main street of Dublin. It's just a pity it won't go down Dame Street like it used to. Another battle.

Charles Ingles

Thought with the passing of marriage referendum we have achieved equality.( Which I was delighted to see pass)
Maybe the pride parade is past its sell by date.
Maybe a name change to LOVE a celebration for everyone

hotmail.com

Charles Ingles wrote:

Thought with the passing of marriage referendum we have achieved equality.( Which I was delighted to see pass) Maybe the pride parade is past its sell by date. Maybe a name change to LOVE a celebration for everyone

Numbers keep growing every year.

It's definitely evolved over the years from a protest to a party.

I believe it's a protest and a party.

Charles Ingles

hotmail.com wrote: »

Numbers keep growing every year.

It's definitely evolved over the years from a protest to a party.

I believe it's a protest and a party.

Been a few times and had a great time QA ÀÀÀA

Ten of Swords

hotmail.com wrote: »

I believe it's a protest and a party.

Yes, and also to show solidarity with LGBT people who live in oppressive regimes who cannot express themselves freely.

Annasopra

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Thought with the passing of marriage referendum we have achieved equality.( Which I was delighted to see pass)
Maybe the pride parade is past its sell by date.
Maybe a name change to LOVE a celebration for everyone

That was one aspect of equality. Not equality itself.

There are many areas that still need improvement; family law for same sex parents is still appalingly bad, sex ed in schools needs to badly improved, we need to update the gender recocgnition laws, we could do with some hate crime legislation.

Charles Ingles

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

That was one aspect of equality. Not equality itself.

There are many areas that still need improvement; family law for same sex parents is still appalingly bad, sex ed in schools needs to badly improved, we need to update the gender recocgnition laws, we could do with some hate crime legislation.

I'll admit never thought of those issues .
Very fair points I think we on the right path

Ten of Swords

ILGA is the international NGO that monitors LGBT issues in all countries around the world and publishes it's rankings annually. The Jan-Dec 2018 review is due to be published in a month but from the pre-read that is available I can see that Ireland scored 15th in Europe, the same place as last year.

ILGA Ireland Chapter
https://www.ilga-europe.org/sites/default/files/ireland.pdf

Rainbow Europe Ireland Summary
https://rainbow-europe.org/#8639/0/0

All countries are measured in 6 key areas, Ireland scores very well in 3 of them and very badly in the remaining 3. In 2018;

Equality and non-discrimination|21%
Family|89%
Hate crime and hate speech|13%
Gender recognition and bodily integrity|78%
Civil society space|100%
Asylum|17%

L1011

The ILGA rankings are fundamentally faulty and really not worth anything. Countries with no SSM get high rankings based on spurious sidelines every time out for instance.

Ten of Swords

Personally I don't believe that but regardless, the ILGA rankings do help put into perspective statements like "once the marriage referendum passed we achieved full equality". There is still a lot of work to do and serious legislative gaps in protections for LGBT people in Ireland - some countries have closed these gaps and some have not.

Goodshape

MOD NOTE

I've removed posts from the thread for being off-topic and either breaking or skirting rules #10 and #11, at least, of the charter.

Stick to the topic of the Pride parade. Leave out the theories and "reasonable debate" on gender and identity.

JupiterKid

2019 is a milestone year for LGBT Pride worldwide: it marks the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall riots in New York, when the patrons of a gay bar in downtown NYC got sick of the constant police raids and harassment and fought back over a period of three days and nights.

These riots led to the formation of gay and lesbian lobby groups and organisations, and whilst a passive pro LGBT rights movement had been in existence for a while before Stonewall, the event caused the movement to shift several gears up. The first Pride marches were held the following year, in 1970, began to spread throughout the Western world during the 1970s and the rest is, well, history.

Will there be any sort of recognition of Stonewall 50 at Dublin Pride or a linking in with the New York events?

And whilst the march toward equality in Ireland has nearly reached its goals, a key aim of pride events should be to show solidarity with LGBT people who live in oppressive, deeply intolerant and quite frankly savage countries, of which sadly there are many.

Ten of Swords

Wish granted!

https://gcn.ie/dublin-pride-announces-2019-theme-rainbow-revolution/

PointHop123

I sincerely hope that the corporate sponsorship is strictly controlled and limited this year.

The last couple of years have been bland snoozefest - particulary in Smithfield Square. Deciding that the afterparty is to be 'family-friendly' ie friendly for the corporate sponsors' involvement was a betrayal of the community.

cgcsb

Much prefer Smithfield to Merrion Square. It was pure pants in Merrion Square, nowhere to go anywhere near there.

Charles Ingles

Mrs ingles and myself will be attending this year to support the LGBT community.

ongarboy

cgcsb wrote: »

Much prefer Smithfield to Merrion Square. It was pure pants in Merrion Square, nowhere to go anywhere near there.

Agreed. Maybe it was the fine weather last year but there was an absolutely fantastic buzz around Smithfield Square last year. It was like a street party and then you had the various pubs (I visited the Cobblestone for the first time!) and you could then walk over to Stoneybatter or back towards Dame/Capel/Parliament St area in minutes.

cgcsb

ongarboy wrote: »

Agreed. Maybe it was the fine weather last year but there was an absolutely fantastic buzz around Smithfield Square last year. It was like a street party and then you had the various pubs (I visited the Cobblestone for the first time!) and you could then walk over to Stoneybatter or back towards Dame/Capel/Parliament St area in minutes.

There's shag all decent places to go to around merrion sq, it's dead on weekends, mostly offices and closed shops. A handful of bars with no atmosphere. The Smithfield/Stoneybatter area was a great place to finish. I think the south side gays were just in fits having to cross the liffey and all

Seamai

PointHop123 wrote: »

I sincerely hope that the corporate sponsorship is strictly controlled and limited this year.

The last couple of years have been bland snoozefest - particulary in Smithfield Square. Deciding that the afterparty is to be 'family-friendly' ie friendly for the corporate sponsors' involvement was a betrayal of the community.

Agree, the big corporate groups, particularly the big American ones bring little to the parade, it's just another way for them to advertise and virtue signal.

Ten of Swords

Will St Leger as grand marshall, congratulations!

hotmail.com

The parade gives with one hand and takes from another. It's going down O'Connell Street again but finishes up in a dead area of the city.

One of these days, they'll actually get it right.

I fail to see why they can't close off Dame Street and have the after party there.

cgcsb

hotmail.com wrote: »

The parade gives with one hand and takes from another. It's going down O'Connell Street again but finishes up in a dead area of the city.

One of these days, they'll actually get it right.

I fail to see why they can't close off Dame Street and have the after party there.

Car is still king in Dublin. Hence, no plaza in college green

Stop moaning ffs

Just so confusing.
This years Pride, sponsored by Aviva insurance.
it just defeats the entire purpose to hand over a still legitimate and important political protest into corporate hands.

But They’re lighting up Lansdwne road all this week in Pride colours. But not on the Saturday cos there’s a match and pitch maintenance. But they really are committed as allies (eyeroll implied)

Is it not possible to take this back away from corporations each year, make it a ticketed event at a venue or suitable location and raise funds that way? It would also solve the myriad issues that have emerged with pride the last few years, certain groups and demographics joining in and causing (underage) drunken chaos, comes first to mind.
It needs some cash to get up and running but a corporate sponsor for a parade ran entirely or almost by volunteers is just a bit mad. Don’t care about the money aspect. I’d give it to them if I had it.
The point and the heart of it gets blown away into cheap tackiness with the corporate involvement though. Could be a huge event or festival even for the city instead it’s an ad space

cgcsb

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwivq-jP_NHiAhWhtXEKHQhpBaMQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=%2Furl%3Fsa%3Di%26source%3Dimages%26cd%3D%26ved%3D%26url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.celebquote.com%252F10502%26psig%3DAOvVaw1akL2DhaJxGZ3W8jRFJ7jF%26ust%3D1559811453702475&psig=AOvVaw1akL2DhaJxGZ3W8jRFJ7jF&ust=1559811453702475

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Mrs ingles and myself will be attending this year to support the LGBT community.

Ten of Swords

The Garda cars look, eh, different!! Some people properly losing it in the comment section (Twitter outrage is fascinating at times!)

https://mobile.twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1138022912647192576

Stop moaning ffs

Ten of Swords wrote: »

The Garda cars look, eh, different!! Some people properly losing it in the comment section (Twitter outrage is fascinating at times!)

https://mobile.twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1138022912647192576

That’s cool.
We really are moving forward here. Well, except for the perpetually outraged who hate things like equality and inclusivity.

Ten of Swords

The Pride Guide is out, it's a 189 page magazine!

There's actually some really good stuff in there, including a section called mapping pride which covers significant events over the last 50 years. It's spread all through the magazine.

Starts on page 31 with 1969 (Stonewall riots) and 1970 (Founding of the GLF by Pete Thatchell in London).

1982 (Declan Flynn and the start of the rights movement in Ireland) is on page 74

Well worth a read

https://issuu.com/dublinpridefestival/docs/prideguide2019-2

jobbridge4life

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That’s cool.
We really are moving forward here. Well, except for the perpetually outraged who hate things like equality and inclusivity.

Are you referring to the homophobic response or the objections of LGBT people to the inclusion of police in the parade?

baby and crumble

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Are you referring to the homophobic response or the objections of LGBT people to the inclusion of police in the parade?

For me both are getting on my tits.

Stop moaning ffs

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Are you referring to the homophobic response or the objections of LGBT people to the inclusion of police in the parade?

Both to be honest. I love seeing inclusion and forward steps. Same time people will always rant.

ongarboy

Anyone else noticed the Pride booklet (100+ pages) falls apart in your hands (ie each page detaches from the bind as you turn the pages)? I and a friend both noticed that when we picked up copies this weekend. Maybe it was just a faulty batch...

Ten of Swords

Enjoy tomorrow everyone

Irish Praetorian

Hope everyone had a great day today; more than a bit saddened that I couldn't make it but oh well.

Just, on the back of this issue, I'm quite interested in peoples attitudes towards the involvement of public bodies like the Gardai and sponsors big and small. I understand that this has been quite problematic for some, could anyone give me a cliff notes version (or even longer) of the reasons for such views?

Goodshape

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I'm quite interested in peoples attitudes towards the involvement of public bodies like the Gardai and sponsors big and small.

Just personally; I don't have a problem the Gardai or other public bodies being involved. I don't like that "us vs them" approach. They should be on 'our' side and their involvement is a positive step. We shouldn't be fighting our own, even if they are imperfect. Work with them to change for the better.

I do get annoyed by the amount of corporate involvement, though. Sponsoring is fine. Being involved is fine. But when the parade fills up AMAZON and GOOGLE and MICROSOFT open-top buses with music blaring and loud-speakers and everyone in pride t-shirts with the company logo front-and-centre, followed along by some of our actual gay community groups on foot without much fan-fair... then what exactly are they "sponsoring"? Their own spot in our parade? That's not sponsorship, that's buy-out.

And I have to assume there's nothing like a rule or regulation about using and abusing the Pride flag, because the amount of rubbish that's plastered with it for these few weeks is ridicules. Insurance with Pride. Vodka with Pride. Salted Peanuts with Pride. The **** does it even mean anymore after that.


But I try not to let it bother me too much.

Stop moaning ffs

Goodshape wrote: »

Just personally; I don't have a problem the Gardai or other public bodies being involved. I don't like that "us vs them" approach. They should be on 'our' side and their involvement is a positive step. We shouldn't be fighting our own, even if they are imperfect. Work with them to change for the better.

I do get annoyed by the amount of corporate involvement, though. Sponsoring is fine. Being involved is fine. But when the parade fills up AMAZON and GOOGLE and MICROSOFT open-top buses with music blaring and loud-speakers and everyone in pride t-shirts with the company logo front-and-centre, followed along by some of our actual gay community groups on foot without much fan-fair... then what exactly are they "sponsoring"? Their own spot in our parade? That's not sponsorship, that's buy-out.

And I have to assume there's nothing like a rule or regulation about using and abusing the Pride flag, because the amount of rubbish that's plastered with it for these few weeks is ridicules. Insurance with Pride. Vodka with Pride. Salted Peanuts with Pride. The **** does it even mean anymore after that.


But I try not to let it bother me too much.

Who’s fighting?

It’s up to all of us to change our thinking.

Goodshape

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Who’s fighting?

Arguing. That the Guards, etc, shouldn't be a part of the pride parade.

Some people are and I see their point but I don't really agree.

Stop moaning ffs

Tell them there are way more lgbt gardai than you’d think and they deserve representation too. On top of that it’s brilliant to see an arm of the state step up and be progressive and inclusive and showing support.
.
For a great many years you couldn’t go to the gardai to report being attacked if you were lgbt. I know this from first hand experience. So to see this at last is such a balm.
It’s this ireland now not the old one. Sure there were groups from all the main political parties taking part in parades all over the country as well as the Prode flag flying over Leinster house.

If those people really have nothing else to do but complain about gardai or whoever, showing support, id be sorry for them.
Those people are always complaining though. Especially if it’s anything progressive. And they aren’t open to a debate on it or having their minds changed usually. Just ignore them.

Ten of Swords

Nice to see the Gardai and the PSNI marching yesterday.

The Gardai have a LGBT support group called G-Force, their Twitter account has some great pictures from yesterday!

Stop moaning ffs

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Nice to see the Gardai and the PSNI marching yesterday.

The Gardai have a LGBT support group called G-Force, their Twitter account has some great pictures from yesterday!

And the army too

Mad to see the PSNI take part.

This will make a certain party up north lose their tiny little backwards minds

AllForIt

#alternativepride

https://twitter.com/elias_era/status/1145093889373757440

https://twitter.com/Chris_Noone_/status/1144938678520897536

https://twitter.com/SWAIIreland/status/1144945670002040832

https://twitter.com/SWAIIreland/status/1144975411601903616

I'm not sure what sex workers, direct provision and Chechnya has specifically got to do with LGBT rights but I suppose they'll do as causes for the perpetually protesting gray dowdy socialist types. Arn't brothels illegal btw?

Judging by the lack of likes and comments on twiiter for #alternaivepride it looks like it turned about to be a bit of damp squib. I think if they waned to be truly alternative they would have organized the event in an alternative location and especially on an alternative day to the main event instead of feeding off the media coverage given to the main event they themselves say they couldn't consciously take part in - but did really.

I have always thought there exists within any kind of activism a proportion of ppl who are never happy and wouldn't know what to do with themselves should they get what they originally wanted. If #alternativepride caught on it wouldn't be long before they'd be organizing #alternative_alternative_pride.

Ten of Swords

AllForIt wrote: »

I'm not sure what sex workers, direct provision and Chechnya has specifically got to do with LGBT rights.

Alternative pride isn't really for me personally but nonetheless these are important and ongoing LGBT issues that were being given a platform yesterday

Stop moaning ffs

Point is to remind all of us there’s still people being punished in the world for being gay. Out in Eastern Europe and Russia especially. Gay people being beaten and killed daily.

And the stonewall / trans aspect is literally the birth of pride in the first place. Something everyone forget me. Me included.

We can’t fall into complacency. That’s the point of pride and presumably alternative pride

imme

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Nice to see the Gardai and the PSNI marching yesterday.

The Gardai have a LGBT support group called G-Force, their Twitter account has some great pictures from yesterday!

There was the Garda band, and a senior officer type group and a gforce group and the psni contingent and then the GRA.

I didn't clap the various Garda groups as others did around me. I was sorry I didn't.

The Irish army had a significant presence as well, including the army band.
I gave the army a clap.

In overall terms the corporate, should they be there, debate could take you years to sort out.
I would say that they all had some form of music, live or loudspeaker stuff.

These interludes added some sort of energy to the thing.

Some of the non musical accompanied groups were a bit dowdy in comparison. Not seeking to do them down, that's the way it seemed in parade terms. That's what I was judging it on.

Ten of Swords

imme wrote: »

In overall terms the corporate, should they be there, debate could take you years to sort out.

Overall I'm a bit on the fence, I think there is too much opportunism and it is clearly just a marketing and PR exercise for big companies (wouldn't mind seeing a VFM analysis to see what it's actually worth to them) and it was a little sad to see the grassroots local support organizations almost taking a back seat to the big corporate floats when they should be the ones center stage. It's a shame that it's got to the point where fringe groups are setting up their own pride celebrations, I don't see a greater good coming out of that to be honest.

That said, a poster in another thread made a point about overwhelming visibility being a good thing for someone possibly questioning themselves and I have to say I do agree, one of the more sensible posts I've read when it comes to the pride debate.

J_E wrote: »

Stop this. This is whinging for no good reason. You have no idea the impact this visibility has on younger people who are unaware of queer politics and radical anti-capitalist goings on, and why should they. These groups are creating an unbelievable positive display of a country that backs and supports their people. Of course there are still rights challenges to be won, but how can you sit here and type away a whole movement? Why can't people enjoy this one day for what it is? This is now a Pride for everyone, like it or not. Go ahead and push for new changes, but can you hold off the keyboard conquests for one day of the year and perhaps bring up these issues other times in the year when it isn't as convenient?

If Tesco doing Pride sponsorships makes one confused young person feel like they might have a place in the world after all, we all win.

Mr.Frame

In my opinion Pride has lost its meaning.
The amount of Corporate/big business bringing their staff (mainly straight ) to the parade is ridiculous. The day has turned into a big day out and an advert for these corporations and their staff.

How many of these corporations were around and supported LGBTQ before the Marriage Referendum 2015? Very few of them were involved in those previous years.

Every LGBTQ person will remember their first Pride Parade and how it felt. For me it was hugely emotional and at the same time uplifting.

I cant imagine what its like for an LGBTQ person now to go to their first Pride.

The organisers I think , need to have a re think about the whole thing.

Use your vote

Hugely disappointed at the 5.00 euro cover charge on Saturday (cash only!) to buy overpriced drink in Panti Bar.

Whatever Pride is about, it shouldn't be about a gay business fleecing its loyal customers - especially on Pride Day:mad:

cgcsb

Use your vote wrote: »

Hugely disappointed at the 5.00 euro cover charge on Saturday (cash only!) to buy overpriced drink in Panti Bar.

Whatever Pride is about, it shouldn't be about a gay business fleecing its loyal customers - especially on Pride Day:mad:

:rolleyes:

How about this:

My ticket to Mother block party was €33 (no re-entry) and you COULD NOT get a drink, because the queues were half a kilometer long. I only stayed for the 2 hours because I was crouching-tiger-hidden-naggin (something I haven't done since college years but I got the heads up from a friend who went in earlier). I wouldn't mind the security were actually patting people down in 2019, if you can imagine.

Your fiver was good value considering. I presume Pennylane was also serving?

imme

cgcsb wrote: »

:rolleyes:

How about this:

My ticket to Mother block party was €33 (no re-entry) and you COULD NOT get a drink, because the queues were half a kilometer long. I only stayed for the 2 hours because I was crouching-tiger-hidden-naggin (something I haven't done since college years but I got the heads up from a friend who went in earlier). I wouldn't mind the security were actually patting people down in 2019, if you can imagine.

Your fiver was good value considering. I presume Pennylane was also serving?

Sounds a bit shocking re Mother.

In relation to pantibar they have to pay a fee to have the roadway closed afaik.
A couple of grand if I remember correctly.

They would have had all their own staff and then some, security staff etc etc.

Pints were €6, not exhorbitant.
The staff were super quick, don't think I waited more than 4-5 minutes at the bar.

Edit: penny lane wasn't being used at all. The place would only have been messed up by the likes of us. =D

cgcsb

imme wrote: »

Sounds a bit shocking re Mother.

In relation to pantibar they have to pay a fee to have the roadway closed afaik.
A couple of grand if I remember correctly.

They would have had all their own staff and then some, security staff etc etc.

Pints were €6, not exhorbitant.
The staff were super quick, don't think I waited more than 4-5 minutes at the bar.

Edit: penny lane wasn't being used at all. The place would only have been messed up by the likes of us. =D

I think a 5er in was pretty fare really, at least you could get a drink and there was outside space. The gardaí, in traditional homophobic style, were closing down Neelons and threatening Street 66 because of the overspill onto the street. Something that the gardaí wouldn't dream of doing on a match day or any Paddy's day, or on any sunny evening at any pub in town but there you go, nothing like an old fashioned queer bashing for the cops.

imme

cgcsb wrote: »

I think a 5er in was pretty fare really, at least you could get a drink and there was outside space. The gardaí, in traditional homophobic style, were closing down Neelons and threatening Street 66 because of the overspill onto the street. Something that the gardaí wouldn't dream of doing on a match day or any Paddy's day, or on any sunny evening at any pub in town but there you go, nothing like an old fashioned queer bashing for the cops.

Queer bashing and Garda bashing in the same post. Is this a record for boards.

Can we stick to the facts please.
Did the gardai actually shut down nealons?

Street 66 was doing a wristband thing so should have been able to restrict customer numbers themselves.
As far as I remember their customers had the footpath on their side of parliament Street blocked more or less.