Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

makeorbrake

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

Also, thought this was interesting. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/18/rep-maxine-waters-facebook-should-stop-work-on-libra-cryptocurrency.html

Auntie Maxine

There's all manner of implications here. They won't be charging any transaction fees. Paypal and WU have had a great run of it - but it must be curtains for them now.

Just by holding the cash alone, they stand to make serious cash. Barclays reckon they will make $19 billion in 12 months. They could well afford to pay LibraCoin holders interest but apparently they wont at first because if they did, it would get classed as a security - what with the not fit for purpose U.S. securities laws.

Auntie Maxine could disrupt the party - but in reality, the likes of Facebook don't operate without consensus with the U.S. government behind the scenes. It'll probably go ahead with their blessing - and they'll share all that privacy data with them.
This interview was recorded before today's whitepaper release. Notwithstanding that, it's well worth a listen. Caitlin Long is very credible in this space.

makeorbrake

stockshares wrote: »

Ripple have bought shares in Moneygram.

Moneygram shares have jumped 77%
https://amp-timeinc-net.cdn.ampproject.org/v/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2019/06/17/ripple-moneygram-xrp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Can they get their $50 mil back now that BookFace will be doing remittance transfers for free?

Arrival

makeorbrake wrote: »

Nobelium wrote: »

BOOM

bye bye Bitcoin . .back to the pathetic pimps and drug dealers where you belong

I never thought I'd be so intrigued and fascinated by the notion of a launch of a ****coin. There are still loads of ifs and buts but I think they will make a shed tonne of money if they can get some traction going.

And yet I'm not at all phased by your jibe...go figure...

The futures bright, the futures crypto.

He's special if he's actually serious with that comment and not taking the piss, it's actually cringeworthy

q85dw7osi4lebg

https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-facebook-cryptocurrency-4688661-Jun2019/

This will tell a lot. I will guess 75% no by this evening (it's just gone up)

Bob24

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-facebook-cryptocurrency-4688661-Jun2019/

This will tell a lot. I will guess 75% no by this evening (it's just gone up)

I’m personally very wary of Silicon Valley and surveillance capitalism control over anything that might look like a global currency, so I have a very negative view of Libra.

However I don’t know how much credit I would give to people saying they won’t use it In a poll without even knowing exactly what it is or how it will be made available to (or forced upon) them.

Many people would say they don’t trust Facebook and yet are using at least one of their products between the Facebook app, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, and Instagram.

So I wish they fail, but I fear they will succeed as they are starting with a huge head start due to their position in the Internet ecosystem and are experts at leveraging networking effects.

q85dw7osi4lebg

I reckon 99% of people who say they won't use it, will if it does in fact take off. I can see Gen Y having a use for it, but none others really.

Bob24

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

I reckon 99% of people who say they won't use it, will if it does in fact take off. I can see Gen Y having a use for it, but none others really.

I suppose the plan is to start with younger generations in developed countries and everyone in developing countries with lack of widespread banking services or stable currency, and then to force everybody else to adopt it due to peer pressure and the fact that some online services might only be purchase-able with Libra.

Plus Facebook already has all the older generations on WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger (depending on countries). Once they add the option to send Libra through these (and possibly ways to request funds from someone), I don’t think it will be hard to get parents to pay kids pocket money, sending funds to their child studying abroad, or grandparents sending a small gift to the grandchild to use this option.

Grumpypants

The rush for this space will be to become the crypto payment app people use, so that Facebook buy you up for a billion ala whatsapp.

stockshares

Bank of England Governor Mark Carney on Facebook Libra
https://www.coindesk.com/facebooks-libra-could-meet-highest-standards-in-regulation-boe-governor?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Binance CEO latest on Libra and also that BnB is now on KuCoin

Bob24

stockshares wrote: »

Binance CEO latest on Libra

I’m not always fond of Zhao, but that is nicely put :-)

stockshares

Bob24 wrote: »

I’m not always a fan of Zhao, but that is nicely put :-)

I've edited my previous post to show BNB is now on KuCoin

q85dw7osi4lebg

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2019/06/19/facebook-launches-own-currency-military-hospitals-schools/

stockshares

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2019/06/19/facebook-launches-own-currency-military-hospitals-schools/

Great stuff

"
"Me money now” shared a short circuiting Mark Zuckerberg as he announced Libra, and pitched his idea that the company you can’t trust with your data could be trusted with your money."

JJJJNR

makeorbrake wrote: »

Can they get their $50 mil back now that BookFace will be doing remittance transfers for free?

...and sell the transactional details to the highest bidder.

Banks like privacy..

makeorbrake

JJJJNR wrote: »

...and sell the transactional details to the highest bidder.

Banks like privacy..

I don't follow??

JJJJNR

With facebook you are the product, they will share the transactional data without consent, banks won't use it for that reason.

makeorbrake

JJJJNR wrote: »

With facebook you are the product, they will share the transactional data without consent, banks won't use it for that reason.

Banks don't have to. I was referring to Ripple's purchase of Moneygram. Moneygram/Western Union - and for that matter, the full buffet that has been international wire transfer (with it's inefficiencies and ridiculous fees) should be toast.

FB aren't going to be charging fees. The likes of WU and Moneygram charge a shed load. The Remittance market is huge...global remittances expected to be $715 billion in 2019. This usually hits poor people, immigrants sending money home.

I live in a developing country where a lot of people don't have bank accounts. Had reason to pay a couple of people recently - both turned out to be unbanked. There's a service here similar to Western Union. Offices everywhere and pretty convenient. However, it cost 17% to send the money!...and that was for an in-country transfer, no FX involved.

People who are getting screwed with these sorts of services right now won't care about privacy if the alternative is a free transfer.

stockshares

This is big. Russia legalising Crypto
https://beincrypto.com/russia-to-legalize-digital-assets-within-two-weeks-facebook-libra-not-included/

JJJJNR

makeorbrake wrote: »

Banks don't have to. I was referring to Ripple's purchase of Moneygram. Moneygram/Western Union - and for that matter, the full buffet that has been international wire transfer (with it's inefficiencies and ridiculous fees) should be toast.

FB aren't going to be charging fees. The likes of WU and Moneygram charge a shed load. The Remittance market is huge...global remittances expected to be $715 billion in 2019. This usually hits poor people, immigrants sending money home.

I live in a developing country where a lot of people don't have bank accounts. Had reason to pay a couple of people recently - both turned out to be unbanked. There's a service here similar to Western Union. Offices everywhere and pretty convenient. However, it cost 17% to send the money!...and that was for an in-country transfer, no FX involved.

People who are getting screwed with these sorts of services right now won't care about privacy if the alternative is a free transfer.

Ok yeah, but with XRP its fees are minimal also, so I'd say once implemented I for one would use moneygram over FB if given the option.

I'm allowing my hate of FB to take over here, but even still I'm not sure this is good for crypto, I think this throws the cat amongst the pigeons and will end up with a crack down on crypto, the classes know the wealth transfer bitcoin and other crypto currencies can bring and this is an obvious attempt to stop that, only time will tell I guess.

Separately if you were on Facebook does the thought of having a conversation about sending money to someone only to check your phone and see its already done, not freak you out..

Dohnjoe

JJJJNR wrote: »

With facebook you are the product, they will share the transactional data without consent, banks won't use it for that reason.

They won't share personal info, only that which is relevant to the transaction for KYC and AML purposes

makeorbrake

JJJJNR wrote: »

Ok yeah, but with XRP its fees are minimal also, so I'd say once implemented I for one would use moneygram over FB if given the option.

Well, up until the Moneygram deal, XRP were in a different market. They were focusing on bank to bank money movements. It appears that they've been more successful than anyone in establishing partnerships. However, with the advent of JP Coin and other solutions from within the industry, are they getting shut out by the old guard banking mob? I'm setting that out as a question - as I don't follow Ripple that closely and I know there are a few folks here that do and would be better informed.

As regards Moneygram, there fees are far from minimal - they're probably 10% or more. As I mentioned in my post, I used a rival service the other week and they charged 17%...and that didn't involve FX.

They can reduce their costs but Facebook are not even looking to make money on fees. Facebook can make enough cash from holding money that they will wave whatever transaction fee is involved. That means that moneygram is toast. Remember, with that model they have staff and premises.

JJJJNR wrote: »

I'm allowing my hate of FB to take over here

I can't stand facebook - I went years without using it - but have been forced back into using it in recent years in order to participate in a few facebook groups. Even then, I don't access under my own name.

JJJJNR wrote: »

I'm not sure this is good for crypto, I think this throws the cat amongst the pigeons and will end up with a crack down on crypto, the classes know the wealth transfer bitcoin and other crypto currencies can bring and this is an obvious attempt to stop that, only time will tell I guess.

Without a shadow of a doubt. There are all sorts of twists and turns to be taken yet. The crackdown is coming any way - that's beyond doubt.
That would always happen even if FB don't launch. But there are all manner of battle lines opening up here.....between real crypto and central banks and governments, FB and central banks and governments, FB and traditional banking, you name it...grab the pop corn because there's all sorts of outcomes possible with this.

JJJJNR wrote: »

Separately if you were on Facebook does the thought of having a conversation about sending money to someone only to check your phone and see its already done, not freak you out..

I'm not sure what you mean on that one? I think instant online form of payment - peer to peer (ish) is great. If you mean the monitoring and data, of course I dont like that and would use decentralised crypto given the choice. But remember that if you have immigrants that want to send money home as millions of them around the world do every day, then if they get the opportunity to send without cost, they will lap that up (regardless of privacy).

The hope would be as people get accustomed to digital currency and other issues arise (with data privacy, with governments, with controls), some will then filter through to decentralised peer to peer crypto. That may or not pan out that way...we will have to see.

JJJJNR

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They won't share personal info, only that which is relevant to the transaction for KYC and AML purposes

we don't share your data with anyone only the thought police.

Bob24

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They won't share personal info, only that which is relevant to the transaction for KYC and AML purposes

Facebook saying they won’t share/use personal data and then getting caught actually sharing it has happened too many times in the past for me to be able to trust them TBH. They also promised they would never match Facebook identifiers to WhatsApp ones to the European Commission to break that promise a couple of months later. And so on ...

Added to fact even without personal data they will have massive matrix of international payments from which they will be able to gather massive insights, privacy implications are huge.

Dohnjoe

Bob24 wrote: »

Facebook saying they won’t share/use personal data and then getting caught actually sharing it has happened too many times in the past for me to be able to trust them TBH. They also promised they would never match Facebook identifiers to WhatsApp ones to the European Commission to break that promise a couple of months later. And so on ...

Added to fact even without personal data they will have massive matrix of international payments from which they will be able to gather massive insights, privacy implications are huge.

Am aware of the issues, outside of internet hysteria and isolated cases, most people don't care enough for it to matter. Metadata goes to advertisers all the time. It's only when individual information gets abused as policy for political/criminal reasons do people really start to pay attention

Financial info is sensitive, FB have laid out their policies, it's likely they'll have to stick to them. Also FB has to go through a "hurricane" of regulatory scrutiny - the end product might be different from what we know now

From a community that will trust anonymous Russian ICOs, the current sentiment against FB coin is pretty interesting to say the least

Bob24

Dohnjoe wrote: »

From a community that will trust anonymous Russian ICOs, the current sentiment against FB coin is pretty interesting to say the least

People buying into ICOs are going for a very highly speculative and risky bet which they hope will make them a lot of money quickly but they know has a high chance leading to a complete loss in the medium term. Almost everyone knows 99% or more of these coins will end up being useless but people still like to speculate on them which is fair enough.

That is very different from one of the most powerful tech companies in the world coming in with an ambition to introduce their own global money (and with the means to to so).

I think this explain why people look at those two things very differently.

JJJJNR

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean on that one? I think instant online form of payment - peer to peer (ish) is great. If you mean the monitoring and data, of course I dont like that and would use decentralised crypto given the choice. But remember that if you have immigrants that want to send money home as millions of them around the world do every day, then if they get the opportunity to send without cost, they will lap that up (regardless of privacy).

The hope would be as people get accustomed to digital currency and other issues arise (with data privacy, with governments, with controls), some will then filter through to decentralised peer to peer crypto. That may or not pan out that way...we will have to see.

I mean when you talk about a product it magically appears in your news feed (put your phone next to a german speaking channel and see what happens) the next step for facebook will be sending money to people via the same algorithm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Am aware of the issues, outside of internet hysteria and isolated cases, most people don't care enough for it to matter. Metadata goes to advertisers all the time. It's only when individual information gets abused as policy for political/criminal reasons do people really start to pay attention

Financial info is sensitive, FB have laid out their policies, it's likely they'll have to stick to them. Also FB has to go through a "hurricane" of regulatory scrutiny - the end product might be different from what we know now

From a community that will trust anonymous Russian ICOs, the current sentiment against FB coin is pretty interesting to say the least

Its always been the sentiment.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/19/18681845/facebook-moderator-interviews-video-trauma-ptsd-cognizant-tampa

makeorbrake

JJJJNR wrote: »

I mean when you talk about a product it magically appears in your news feed (put your phone next to a german speaking channel and see what happens) the next step for facebook will be sending money to people via the same algorithm

Good! Maybe between that and other reasons, those who get disaffected can shuffle across to proper crypto at that point.

People have not been motivated by privacy (to the point of acting on it)....we put up with the intrusion for convenience. However, we are already reaching a minority report stage (chinese and their facial recognition and social scoring - and protesters in hong kong last week going out of their way to try and evade these advanced measures).....it might be enough to get people motivated enough to push back.

stockshares

Bitcoin is the 8th largest currency in the World going by Monetary Base.

https://bitcoinist.com/bitcoin-russia-monetary-base/

q85dw7osi4lebg

Not directly related, but not unrelated either.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bank-of-america-brian-moynihan-cashless-society-210717673.html

q85dw7osi4lebg

Damnit