Semple Woods. Donabate

GJFT

Hi. Just looking for opinion on this please.
We're first time buyers and were getting ready to put a booking deposit down on a 3 bed in a new development in donabate, semple woods, next weekend at the launch.
Today we found out from newspaper article, that the developers, glenveigh property, have sold 40 houses to a large corporate landlord, Ires Reit.
There are only 125 houses in the estate so its alot.
This combined with the 10% that will be sold to the council will mean that 1 of every 3 homes will be rented.
We ourselves have rented for years but i feel like thats a much bigger average for an estate than would be typical. I know myself from renting that your less committed to a neighbourhood when your stay isn't going to be long term.
Would this put you off buying there.. Are we mad?

Thanks in advance.

Elessar

Honestly, yes it would put me off.

To be upfront, I lived in Donabate last year and it is a great little town with a lot going for it, close to the sea & beaches, its got amenities like Newbridge demesne, it has the train running through it and close to the airport/swords etc. I loved it. But there is a tonne of residential development going on with very little investment in proper infrastructure to support all these extra people. The trains are full in the morning/evenings with no possibility of more until the mid 2020s, the bus services are not great, the schools are oversubscribed (though they are building more) and traffic is already becoming a nightmare. Even though they are building that bypass road it all still ends at the hearse road/M1 junction and bottlenecks are going to be a huge problem. There's no Garda station or other facilities to support a town growing to its size.

On top of that, Fingal are using Donabate as a dumping ground for social housing. They are already looking for minimum 30% social housing in new developments, going totally against the government stated max of 10%. On top of that as you mentioned large numbers of dwellings get sold off to investment landlords, and many of these will likely be rented back to the council for HAP tenants. This is a recipe for disaster. Large social housing congregations have time and again proved to be disastrous to an area. Plus with so many rented will the area ever get settled? I love Donabate and would absolutely consider buying there (again it's still a great town at the moment) but I would rather wait it out to see what impact all these new social houses have on the area. I hope I am wrong but I don't want to take a chance on buying in an area that could become an anti-social blackspot. Call me whatever you like but if I buy a house for me and my family I want it to be in an area without swathes of anti social behaviour, and preferably, a settled place.

therecklessone

We considered this development and the floor plans for the houses look great but we’ve gone sale agreed on a second hand house closer to where we currently are and am so glad after reading that news during the week.

I’m originally from the area and loved growing up there but I’d echo a lot of what was said above.

charlietheminxx

I wouldn't do it to be honest OP. There are a couple of people talking about this in the Dublin County North forum also. It makes a massive difference to the feel of a place. Bear in mind that some of the private purchasers may also have bought to let, so the rental figure could be closer to 50/50.

GJFT

Thanks everyone. We've decided not to go ahead with purchasing in semple woods. Disappointing but there's too many question marks for us and really don't want to luvr in an estate where every 3rd house is rented.
Thanks again!

charlietheminxx

I hope you find something else that you love just as much. There are some nice new houses being built at the moment

Sleepy

Reports on donabateportrane.net of a lot of others that were interested in the development not going ahead. Can see this estate becoming a real problem area for the village.

Morini

I live there, and think its a nice town in a great location. But if you are considering buying, search through http://www.donabateportrane.net and heed what local people are saying. There will be a lot of houses built, minimal infrastructure, and it looks like there is going to be a very high proportion of new properties given to the rental market.

Brego888

I've been keeping an eye on Semple Woods too as well as other new builds in the area. Will go check it out this weekend at the open day.

Had a read on that Donabate forum and it seems like there is a lot of scaremongering going on both here and there.
That forum has is a link to the fingal planning page which shows circa 260 properties being built there. So the 40 houses sold to the private landlord represents around 15% of the overall development so not a very high proportion at all.

They look like excellent houses although expensive at €375,000 for 3 beds and €450,000 for 4 beds. Whether this offers good value for money in a pre or post brexit world I don't know. Seems to be more expensive than Beresford but less than Rahillion and Glaslinn. But someone might correct me on that.

The private landlord thing looks like it will become significant in every new development now though. Just heard on the Matt Cooper show this evening that they are snapping up properties in loads of new developments throughout the country.

PukkaStukka

Brego888 wrote: »

Had a read on that Donabate forum and it seems like there is a lot of scaremongering going on both here and there.

Why do you think it's scaremongering?

Morini

You are of course correct to keep an open mind, and not blindly accept possible scaremongering, but I've lived in Donabate for 18 years and I'm happy in my belief that the various local groups are not overstating their case. Donabate is near the airport and ~25 minutes from Connolly station. Its surprising it has remained underdeveloped for so long. But whats in progress now is not a result of good planning.

Elessar's post above is spot on, I won't repeat the points made.

I expect the developers of the next estates to be a little less forthcoming about private landlord deals until they have a few more individual private buyers snared.

Brego888

Hard to argue with that either Morini as I do agree that theses private landlord deals will now become the norm. Just think people are very quick to conclude that areas with Hap/social housing/private landlords etc will become another Darndale or Ballymun.

Anyway I've seen the other houses Glenveigh have for sale Rush it looks like a similar development.
As a Donabate resident how would you compare living in Donabate vs Rush? Donabate seems a lovely area and location but with the overall infrastructure of a small village.

PukkaStukka

Brego888 wrote: »

Hard to argue with that either Morini as I do agree that theses private landlord deals will now become the norm. Just think people are very quick to conclude that areas with Hap/social housing/private landlords etc will become another Darndale or Ballymun.

Anyway I've seen the other houses Glenveigh have for sale Rush it looks like a similar development.
As a Donabate resident how would you compare living in Donabate vs Rush? Donabate seems a lovely area and location but with the overall infrastructure of a small village.

I've lived here for over 20 years and that is the key problem with living here. It's a lovely area with great people and a very strong sense of community at the moment.

But it has always been short-changed when it comes to the necessary bits to sustain it.

For a start, the council was given planning permission by ABP to build the new distributor road as a dual carriageway, but they only built single and its very narrow. It's purpose is to open up land for development. That's all filtering down onto the Hearse Rd and the M1 interchange with no plans to upgrade either. It's already chocoblock in the mornings, so what'll it be like when the more serious development gets going in the next few years? Also the traffic through the Donabate village itself at peaktime is a nightmare. It can take 10 minutes to drive just 1km.

The trains are massively overcrowded and no relief in sight - assuming there will be any - for quite some time to come. One direct return bus service to the city per day and that's it.

Even more worryingly, the county council owns ~ 350acres of land at Ballymastone and plan to build 1200 units thereon. They are not going to public consultation with this, much to the anger and fury of the locals.
If I am correct, the council agreed with local representative groups a mix of 20% social, 20% affordable and the balance privately owned. However the emergence of housing agencies doing deals before going to market may have no bearing who ends up living there. Development on a similar scale is proposed for sites at Corballis over time.

There's no Garda station, swimming pool, decent supermarket, and all of this in a town that'll match or exceed the likes of Naas, Athlone, or Sligo. Looking at how things are zoned, no provision is being made for anything like these necessary items.

The local elections are around the corner and I understand the current and future situation is very much a hot topic on the doorstep. The locals are angry and annoyed at the infrastructure shortage, and the absolute pounding the village has taken in the last few years from construction traffic and poor management thereof, and the real prospect that situation is not likely to get better any time soon.

Brego888

I've noticed on the LAP that the Corballis area east of the railway line is zoned as a commercial area. Any idea whats going in there?

Morini

Brego888 wrote: »

I've noticed on the LAP that the Corballis area east of the railway line is zoned as a commercial area. Any idea whats going in there?

Locally, I think the LAP would be eyed with scepticism. The previous one had a lot of local consultation, although almost nothing in was ever delivered (partly due to the crash). The current one appears to be pretty weak.

Town center planning is particularly poor - there is no visible plan for improvements to keep pace with the population increase, and bad decisions in the recent past are restricting any future development potential. From what I see, any commercial zoning at the moment is a box-ticking exercise, there is no hard plan for commercial expansion of the area.

Note for example that the new 'Glaslinn' estate is on land indicated as "Town and District Centre" in the Fingal Development Plan 2017-2023.

Morini

Brego888 wrote: »

Just think people are very quick to conclude that areas with Hap/social housing/private landlords etc will become another Darndale or Ballymun.

As a Donabate resident how would you compare living in Donabate vs Rush? Donabate seems a lovely area and location but with the overall infrastructure of a small village.

Thats a fair point, but people see that Fingal Co Co brought about exactly this situation in Balbriggan much more recently, and fear the same mistakes.

Regarding Donabate Vs Rush - I can't compare. Despite the proximity, there is relatively little interaction between the two possibly due to the lack of a direct road link - Donabate being on a peninsula (even if its not that obvious on a map!) does make it a bit isolated.

I don't want to be all negative, so to finish with some on-topic positives: Newbridge Demesne is a great facility, and its right beside Semple Woods. The train station is within easy walking distance of Semple Woods too, and its likely that when/if the cycleway to Malahide is complete (last I heard was that environmental problems are mostly resolved and planning will be submitted later this year) it will pass very close to Semple Woods.

Newbuild19

Even with the negativity, did anyone descide to put down a deposit?

PukkaStukka

Newbuild19 wrote: »

Even with the negativity, did anyone descide to put down a deposit?

I've heard locally that all houses offered for sale at the launch were taken. Another tranche are supposed to be offered soon but prices are rumoured to be going up by €25k per house.

Again these are rumours and anecdotes but do suggest the development is selling

Brego888

Yes I bought one. Lovely houses and met a number of other families last week who have also put deposits down.
Looking forward to meeting and discussing with anyone else who plans to buy.

PukkaStukka

Brego888 wrote: »

Yes I bought one. Lovely houses and met a number of other families last week who have also put deposits down.
Looking forward to meeting and discussing with anyone else who plans to buy.

Warnest Congratulations! When are you moving in?

Brego888

They've indicated end of May/start of June. There were 30 something houses sold on the first open day last Saturday so not sure how many have gone now.
I'm in no panic to move so June/July suits me fine.

Newbuild19

Congratulations! Good to see there was so much interest. I bought last weekend too, they advised it would be end of April/start of May but hopefully it’s a bit later than that!

GJFT

There's a Facebook page for people that have bought homes in semple woods. Its a closed group.. Search Semple Woods Residents.

cloneslad

Was down for a look at them last week. Have to say, the staff on the day were without doubt the best prepared I've ever seen from an open day viewing. They were incredibly friendly and helpful.

The 5 bedroom house has a very good layout too, rooms are all very spacious and the landing area is great too.

I felt the four bed house on show would be better as a three bed. Two of the bedrooms were tiny, one of them being office size only. I thought the three bed house was laid out better than the four.

Brego888

cloneslad wrote: »

Was down for a look at them last week. Have to say, the staff on the day were without doubt the best prepared I've ever seen from an open day viewing. They were incredibly friendly and helpful.

The 5 bedroom house has a very good layout too, rooms are all very spacious and the landing area is great too.

I felt the four bed house on show would be better as a three bed. Two of the bedrooms were tiny, one of them being office size only. I thought the three bed house was laid out better than the four.

Get what you're saying about the bedroom sizes. But we went for the 4 bed for the much bigger kitchen which will work as a 2nd living room space also.

The 5 bed was fantastic but so far out of our price range. Would make you sick walking around it!

cloneslad

Brego888 wrote: »

Get what you're saying about the bedroom sizes. But we went for the 4 bed for the much bigger kitchen which will work as a 2nd living room space also.

The 5 bed was fantastic but so far out of our price range. Would make you sick walking around it!

Yeah, the downstairs area makes sense. The second living area is a great thing to have. We use the living area in our kitchen as our main relaxing space, it’s nice and bright and when someone is making dinner you can chat to them.

We only went out as we are nosey, we bought in donabate at the end of 2017, moved into the house in Feb 2018 and my gf wanted to check the show houses for interior ideas. The fact it was kitted out by Ventura was always going to make it look nice and our wallets look sad.

Do you have any idea when you are moving in? They are absolutely flying through the build, seems to be more going up by the day when I’m driving past.

PukkaStukka

It would appear that the developer has submitted an application to increase the density of the development and my information is he's applying to increase from 99 to 174 units using 5 apartment blocks. The amended application should be online soon if not posted already

Brego888

There was 258 units planned for this development originally though?

tomfoolery60

PukkaStukka wrote: »

It would appear that the developer has submitted an application to increase the density of the development and my information is he's applying to increase from 99 to 174 units using 5 apartment blocks. The amended application should be online soon if not posted already

Have you a link to an article/source?

PukkaStukka

I got a poor quality phone photo of the planning notice sent to me.

I expect the application will be online soon enough

PukkaStukka

Planning notice

Morini

Increasing from 252 -> 328 units, fewer houses, more apartments?

There was a recent ABP decision (http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/249206.htm) on a different development in Donabate, where the recommendation was to increase the density beyond what Fingal CoCo had approved. Its possible that having seen this, the Semple Woods developer sees an opportunity to squeeze out more money, and squeeze in more people?

One of the main justifications for this decision is the proximity to the rail station. Another recommendation was a reduction (!) in the number of car parking spaces, again due to proximity to the rail station.

tomfoolery60

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Planning notice

That's under the strategic/fast track plan so it'll be up on ANP rather than Fingal if I understand it correctly. Cheers for the info!

Should be here when it's updated with a link to website with the planning documents: http://www.pleanala.ie/shd/applications/index.htm

Can't see it up yet though.

Brendan Malarkey

tomfoolery60 wrote: »

That's under the strategic/fast track plan so it'll be up on ANP rather than Fingal if I understand it correctly. Cheers for the info!

Should be here when it's updated with a link to website with the planning documents:
Can't see it up yet though.

Basically they are replacing all the houses in phase two with apartments and increasing the number of units by 77.

This is what the planning application says:

"The proposed amendments result in an increase in the number of permitted units from 251 to 328 (an increase of 77 no. units).

The proposed amendments include the replacement of 35 no. permitted house units and 62 no. permitted apartment units in apartment blocks 1, 2 and 3, with 174 no. apartments with balconies (67 no. one bed units, 87 no. two bed units and 20 no. three bed units) in 5 no. apartment blocks."

All planning documents are available to view on the donabateshd website.

LotharIngum

Morini wrote: »

Increasing from 252 -> 328 units, fewer houses, more apartments?

There was a recent ABP decision (http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/249206.htm) on a different development in Donabate, where the recommendation was to increase the density beyond what Fingal CoCo had approved. Its possible that having seen this, the Semple Woods developer sees an opportunity to squeeze out more money, and squeeze in more people?

One of the main justifications for this decision is the proximity to the rail station. Another recommendation was a reduction (!) in the number of car parking spaces, again due to proximity to the rail station.

Council have been approaching and striking deals with REITS to lease as many properties as they can buy for 25 years guaranteed. So REITS are then going to builders and buying in bulk. Houses but preferably apartments.
Council encouraging builders to apply for higher density with more apartments with the promise of easy approval.


Council tells builders to apply for more density and more apartments.
Council grants permission.
Council gets REITS to buy on promise of guaranteed rental by council for 25 years.
Its a big circle jerk.

And Donabate is ground zero. Balbriggan too. No doubt it will spread further afield.

That planning will be granted at semple and then they will all or at least the vast majority in the end be council houses but owned by a REIT with the tax payer footing the bill and regular buyers pushed out of the market.
And these estates will be easily 75% council houses and apartments by the end of this process.

That is the new strategy for housing. I have been told by a close relative actually working on the project.

PukkaStukka

https://donabateshd.ie/description-of-development/

Sleepy

Unless a solution is found to increasing capacity on the already over-crowded Northern Commuter Line (something CIE are saying can't be done without major works in Connolly), this is a disaster waiting to happen. Sure, Semple Woods is close to the train station but that's not much use to residents if they can't use the train.

albernazj93

"Glenveagh Homes Ltd’s application to replace 35 houses and 62 apartments with a higher-density alternative was rejected – despite the advice of the board’s own inspector."

Have you guys heard something related to this news? Have I understood it correctly?

This sounds good news as I'm buying a house in Semple Woods and did not like the fact they were changing houses for apartments as it would make the village overcrowded.

PS. I can't post the news link as I am a new user. Howerver if you google it there will be a site called dublingazette.

PukkaStukka

albernazj93 wrote: »

"Glenveagh Homes Ltd’s application to replace 35 houses and 62 apartments with a higher-density alternative was rejected – despite the advice of the board’s own inspector."

Have you guys heard something related to this news? Have I understood it correctly?

This sounds good news as I'm buying a house in Semple Woods and did not like the fact they were changing houses for apartments as it would make the village overcrowded.

PS. I can't post the news link as I am a new user. Howerver if you google it there will be a site called dublingazette.

The developer has two options. They can build as per their original planning permission or resubmit a fresh application which somehow addresses the reasons for the refusal on the recent one.

Personally I think they’ll resubmit a fresh application because if it’s granted, they’ll sell whatever is built to the REIT who has bought a lot of the development already.

kingfisher_

Semple Woods lacks safe pedestrian access to Donabate town and rail station. The current footpath between Donabate town and Semple Woods ends abruptly by the filling station. Residents are forced to walk on the main road. Hearse road is very narrow and speeds limit is 80km per hour.

Public statement from Corina Johnston about this mater is below.

"Serious safety concerns must be urgently addressed - Johnston:

Corina Johnston Labour Party Local Area Representative for Donabate and Portrane is calling on Fingal County Council and Glenveagh Properties to urgently address serious safety concerns arising from breaches of planning conditions associated with the Semple Woods Development on the Hearse Road.

Johnston said “The Donabate Local Area Plan states that prior to any units being sold or occupied in the Corballis West Development a continuous footpath connecting the Hearse Road development to the village shall be provided. Despite residents moving into the development in recent weeks the continuous footpath and toucan crossing, which also forms part of the planning permission, has not been completed.

Residents are obliged to walk to and from the village and the train station without the footpath and toucan crossing. This is a serious safety issue and is totally unacceptable. Residents are extremely concerned for their safety when walking along this road and demand action by the council. The safety of residents must be a priority.”

Johnston said “Fingal County Council have informed me that there is an on-going planning enforcement case on this matter and a Warning Letter has been issued to the owner of the lands. This is totally inadequate. Fingal County Council must now instruct the developer to commence these works immediately to ensure the safety of residents in accordance with the planning conditions. This work should be carried out during the night as the Hearse Road is currently closed at night to facilitate other infrastructural works. This is an ideal opportunity for the developer to complete these works with minimal disruption to the wider community”

bilbot79

LotharIngum wrote: »

Council have been approaching and striking deals with REITS to lease as many properties as they can buy for 25 years guaranteed. So REITS are then going to builders and buying in bulk. Houses but preferably apartments.
Council encouraging builders to apply for higher density with more apartments with the promise of easy approval.


Council tells builders to apply for more density and more apartments.
Council grants permission.
Council gets REITS to buy on promise of guaranteed rental by council for 25 years.
Its a big circle jerk.

And Donabate is ground zero. Balbriggan too. No doubt it will spread further afield.

That planning will be granted at semple and then they will all or at least the vast majority in the end be council houses but owned by a REIT with the tax payer footing the bill and regular buyers pushed out of the market.
And these estates will be easily 75% council houses and apartments by the end of this process.

That is the new strategy for housing. I have been told by a close relative actually working on the project.

Your prediction is 75% social housing?

Stopitwillya

bilbot79 wrote: »

Your prediction is 75% social housing?

Really like this estate and thinking of buying here as just got a job in Dublin city centre. However very worried about this. Surely this is not allowed.

bilbot79

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Really like this estate and thinking of buying here as just got a job in Dublin city centre. However very worried about this. Surely this is not allowed.

People are funny sometimes. The previous poster would have us believe there is an elaborate plot by the government to sabotage our dreams by tricking us into buying houses in the new Darndale. Seems a bit far fetched to me.

Internet people can be very negative and, safe from scrutiny, can say the most outlandish things.

Bargain_Hound

I have posted about this before, in another Glenveagh development thread. We bought in one and sold within a year. The number of social houses was staggering. Fine in majority of cases but we got unlucky with travelers next door to us. Didn’t take long before a few undesirable behaviors occurred and we said enough is enough. Buyer be warned.

Paphos

Hi everyone. Has anyone here moved into Semple Woods yet and knows what it’s like to live in? My partner and I are thinking of buying here and would really appreciate any feedback/guidance. I know that a great deal of the houses are being rented by Ires Reit. Are there any issues at all with the estate so far? Thanks.

bilbot79

Paphos wrote: »

Hi everyone. Has anyone here moved into Semple Woods yet and knows what it’s like to live in? My partner and I are thinking of buying here and would really appreciate any feedback/guidance. I know that a great deal of the houses are being rented by Ires Reit. Are there any issues at all with the estate so far? Thanks.

Hi. I was thinking of buying here last year and contacted the residents association on Facebook. I asked about social housing etc and they said there are no issues this far. All good in the hood.

Great location and once the Greenway is built Donabate will be fab

Paphos

Thanks for the quick reply bilbot, that's very useful. There's a lot of positives about the area despite all the development.

Brego888

Paphos wrote: »

Hi everyone. Has anyone here moved into Semple Woods yet and knows what it’s like to live in? My partner and I are thinking of buying here and would really appreciate any feedback/guidance. I know that a great deal of the houses are being rented by Ires Reit. Are there any issues at all with the estate so far? Thanks.

We moved in last September and haven't regretted it. All our close neighbours are young professionals and many with young families. But people generally keep to themselves and the place is quiet which is great. We love the location, close to the train, right next door to Newbridge and walkable to the beach. Donabate could do with some infrastructure development though.

IRES bought about 40 units out of a 300 odd unit site so not a great deal at all. Again they all seem like young professionals with families so haven't had any issues. There is always scaremongering when there is any mention of REIT or social housing. Do your research and make your own judgements.

The biggest problem has been the main road outside the development, lack of safe crossing, poor visibility when turning in etc. That is finally being addressed in next couple of weeks.

Paphos

Thanks very much Brego. I'll admit that my concern was about the REIT-rented housing. It doesn't bother me that tenants are renting in the estate (we've been renting for years - many people don't really have a choice) or even that there's an allocation of social housing (I think 10% is reasonable in new estates). I was more concerned that the REIT-rented houses might become de facto social housing if let largely to HAP recipients, pushing the percentage a good deal upwards.

I agree with all your points. I think I enjoy Newbridge more than the beach, and its great to have the facility so close. The Greenway to Malahide should also be amazing once constructed. The road leading to the estate surprised me too but I'm glad to hear the obvious issues are being addressed.

sparkle109

Can I ask anyone living here what the traffic is usually like to get onto m1 on a normal workday (pre Covid times)? Thinking of buying here, work Lucan direction and trying to get a realistic gauge of commute. Houses look lovely

cloneslad

from Maxol to the M1 would be about 5 minutes or less on a regular day.

Traffic on the M1 is a lottery.