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Aberdeen Lodge Repossession

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245

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    #32
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,178 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Odelay wrote: »
    It’s just a bog standard house.
    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Do you live in a €3,000,000 house.... I don't.... And never will as I work hard but am crucified with tax, bills and more tax...

    "It’s just a bog standard house" was a phrase used by Gerry Beades to describe te €7m house in Gorse Hill that a bank was trying to repossess. I think you missed the sarcasm in the post.


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    #33
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,048 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    jay0109 wrote: »
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    They are making the repayments, are they not?

    On a seperate issue, I would ban this sale-of-debt idea straight up for a start.
    They are making payments on a €1m mortgage on the house.
    They're not making any payments on the €26m from the failed hotel project.

    Fair enough. In which case, tough on them

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #34
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,410 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Hoboo wrote: »
    They shouldn't be on front of the cameras, didn't explain their issue very well.

    They ate arguing that the loan they received was from a lender that collapsed before the project was finished. Had it not collapsed, they could have finished the project, and everyone would be paid.

    The lender decided to sell the incomplete project (for 2m) even though 25m had been used. Lenders choice, not the borrower.

    Goldman bought the loan on their house, nothing to do with the 25m, for 300k. But now are claiming they are owed the 25m.

    That's my understanding, they haven't been heard in court due to GS preventing them with legal glue.

    I think people need to read up on the case rather than see 2m house, 25m owed, kick them out! Divided and conquered we all eventually.


    Goldman Sachs get a two mil house for 300,000.


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    #35
    TomasMacR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭TomasMacR


    Hoboo wrote: »
    They shouldn't be on front of the cameras, didn't explain their issue very well.

    They ate arguing that the loan they received was from a lender that collapsed before the project was finished. Had it not collapsed, they could have finished the project, and everyone would be paid.

    I don't understand this bit...were the funds not already borrowed, hence the debt. How is the project collapsing the responsibility of the lender?


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    #36
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    The fact that banks simply create the credit/debt from thin air, still hasn't been addressed, 'behind every bad debtor, is a bad lender'!

    Maybe you can trace this back beyond the banks.

    They can only 'create debt from thin air' if that is permitted by those controlling the money supply.

    There are people out there legally drinking nowadays who don't understand money supply. I'm not an Irexit guy but going into the EMU was a dumb, dumb move by Ireland. It is barely two decades in place but it destroyed our potential for slow steady growth twice already. It will do so again.


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    #37
    griffin100
    Registered Users Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭griffin100


    The B&B / House is not owned by them, it’s owned by a company. That generates tax and other benefits for the owners of the company. It also allowed the company to borrow €25m using this company asset as collateral. The company can’t pay its debts so the bank is calling in the collateral. Happens every day in business. It’s tough on them but you have to take the rough with the smooth in business.


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    #38
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,608 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Only that it's not a concept, allowing banks to do this is dangerous and ethically questionable, even though we require banks to do this, a more democratic approach is required urgently, as it's currently being abused to gain control of assets, including public assets

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #39
    whiskeyman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    kneemos wrote: »
    Goldman Sachs get a two mil house for 300,000.

    This is the prob
    The owners live in the property so they could even give them 500,000 to buy a home outright And still make a today profit on the loan, but the owners gave a lame 'where would we go' answer last night.
    They know their home is also their income and allows them a nice life.


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    #40
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    "It’s just a bog standard house" was a phrase used by Gerry Beades to describe te €7m house in Gorse Hill that a bank was trying to repossess. I think you missed the sarcasm in the post.

    Me very sorry..... I'm really bad at reading the sarcasm lately.... I think I need to see someone;-)


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    #41
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    TomasMacR wrote: »
    I don't understand this bit...were the funds not already borrowed, hence the debt. How is the project collapsing the responsibility of the lender?

    To be frank I don't know, I'm just stating my understanding so far. I'm not sure if they're claiming when the bank collapsed they hadn't received all the funding (normally done in stages, so they wouldn't have received the final amount until final phase), or they needed more to finish, knowing once done it would clear everything, but the bank collapsed leaving them in limbo. The bank, which was the owner of the loan, sold a 25m investment for 2m. Their choice. They didn't sell the loan, they sold the property.

    All GS bought was the loan on the house which was separate and has never missed a mortgage payment. The 25m had nothing to do with them. The 25m was Guaranteed by the house, not vice versa.

    If GS had bought the 25m loan they could take the house, not the other way around.


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    #42
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    kneemos wrote: »
    Goldman Sachs get a two mil house for 300,000.

    If the people who borrowed met their repayments or even attempted to play ball on their debt, something that good enough for the banks here more often than not, then they wouldn't be getting a house at all.

    On a side note, what's wrong with downsizing? Plenty of properties available within 30 mins of Sandymount for 500K. Plenty of places available in D4 for that amount.


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    #43
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Feisar wrote: »
    Why are banks allowed sell on debt? Can the person(s) who receive the loan do the same?


    Why can any asset be sold?

    Financial assets are bought and sold every day.

    Bonds, shares - these are bought and sold every day.


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Watched prime time last night and they weren’t very good at explaining their case. I was left confused.

    Did they say Goldman Sachs bought the mortgage loan or the 26 million loan for 300k?
    I think they also said that they were not offered a reduced rate like Goldman Sachs were and could have funded it with help from family and friends.


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    #45
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    THe house was used as a personal guarantee on a loan separate to their mortgage.

    I would not ban the sale of loans.

    But I would ban these cross-guarantees..

    PPR should not be used as security on business loans.


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    #46
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    for sure it's the bankers fault, I mean personal debt is like alcoholism, blame the disease not the person


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    #47
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,103 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Feisar wrote: »
    Why are banks allowed sell on debt? Can the person(s) who receive the loan do the same?

    Loans as assets can be bought or sold.

    A liability can't be sold.


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    #48
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Your Face wrote: »
    It seems to be the trendy contrarian view to blast anyone who is in a situation like this.
    Pay what you owe, of course, but dont cave to scummy institutions.

    I too would love to live in a €3 million mansion. But breaking news, I can't afford it. So I have given up on the idea.
    It is ultimately our money that they were playing Russian roulette with. So kick 'em out.


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    #49
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Berserker wrote: »
    If the people who borrowed met their repayments or even attempted to play ball on their debt, something that good enough for the banks here more often than not, then they wouldn't be getting a house at all.

    On a side note, what's wrong with downsizing? Plenty of properties available within 30 mins of Sandymount for 500K. Plenty of places available in D4 for that amount.

    Have you read anything about the case?


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Bee wrote: »
    for sure it's the bankers fault, I mean personal debt is like alcoholism, blame the disease not the person

    Mortgages from Irish Nationwide ended up a complete mess though which is who they loaned off first. Don’t have one personally but I do know.....

    Irish Nationwide went bust
    Loans transferred to Anglo Irish Bank
    Anglo Irish Bank went into liquidation
    Loans transferred to Irish Banking Resolution Company (IBRC)
    IBRC wrote to borrowers saying they were selling loans on and if buyer was not found loan would transfer to Nama
    IBRC would not enter into a negotiation with the borrower to pay off the loan at a reduced rate. They would sell to someone else for reduced rate but the borrower had to pay full amount.
    Loans then transferred here, there and everywhere.


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    #51
    PinotNero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭PinotNero


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Have you read anything about the case?

    Have you?


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    #52
    PinotNero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭PinotNero


    I wonder would they be ok if somebody stayed in their B&B for years, racked up a huge bill and then didn't pay it?


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PinotNero wrote: »
    I wonder would they be ok if somebody stayed in their B&B for years, racked up a huge bill and then didn't pay it?

    Isn’t the B&B their sole source of income and their means of paying the mortgage.

    If they have to leave they also lose their jobs. Might aswell declare bankruptcy and have all debts wiped.


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    #54
    TomasMacR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭TomasMacR


    Hoboo wrote: »
    To be frank I don't know, I'm just stating my understanding so far. I'm not sure if they're claiming when the bank collapsed they hadn't received all the funding (normally done in stages, so they wouldn't have received the final amount until final phase), or they needed more to finish, knowing once done it would clear everything, but the bank collapsed leaving them in limbo. The bank, which was the owner of the loan, sold a 25m investment for 2m. Their choice. They didn't sell the loan, they sold the property.

    All GS bought was the loan on the house which was separate and has never missed a mortgage payment. The 25m had nothing to do with them. The 25m was Guaranteed by the house, not vice versa.

    If GS had bought the 25m loan they could take the house, not the other way around.

    If this is the case then they really should have their case heard and have a spokesperson delivering details to the press...as you say, they should not be doing it as they just seem to be trying to pull at one's heartstrings.

    There does seem to be a lack of clarity and specific details with this. Can't find anything worthwhile, so if anyone has links, please post!


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    #55
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    Watched it last night. Seems like a right mess they have got themselves in. However I might have misheard but they had offered to pay the debt of the loan against the house or buy the house at there valuation? But they are saying that the other loan 25m is not against the house. But GS got an injunction from them fighting this in court.

    I find it odd that bailed out banks offer loans for 30c on the Euro to the like of GS but don't do the same to the person in debt?


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TomasMacR wrote: »
    If this is the case then they really should have their case heard and have a spokesperson delivering details to the press...as you say, they should not be doing it as they just seem to be trying to pull at one's heartstrings.

    There does seem to be a lack of clarity and specific details with this. Can't find anything worthwhile, so if anyone has links, please post!

    From 2012
    https://amp.independent.ie/business/irish/ibrc-seeks-25-5m-over-boutique-hotel-loans-26878941.html
    In 2005, 2007, and 2009, a company of which Mr Halpin and his partner Ann Keane are directors, Crossplan Investments Ltd, which is now in receivership, was loaned a total of around €23m to renovate a building called Merrion Hall on the Merrion Road in Ballsbridge by Irish Nationwide Building Society which later became part of IBRC.

    The loans were personally guaranteed by Mr Halpin who along with his partner Ms Keane is also a director of another company, Elektron Ltd which owns another guesthouse/hotel, the Aberdeen Lodge, Park Avenue, Sandymount, Dublin, which is also given as a couple's address.


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    #57
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    The fact that banks simply create the credit/debt from thin air, still hasn't been addressed, 'behind every bad debtor, is a bad lender'!

    You mean the bad lenders that have interest rates that are too high or require 20% deposits that d’ordinary man can’t afford.


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    #58
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    topper75 wrote: »
    Maybe you can trace this back beyond the banks.

    They can only 'create debt from thin air' if that is permitted by those controlling the money supply.

    There are people out there legally drinking nowadays who don't understand money supply. I'm not an Irexit guy but going into the EMU was a dumb, dumb move by Ireland. It is barely two decades in place but it destroyed our potential for slow steady growth twice already. It will do so again.

    What slow steady growth?


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    #59
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    From 2012
    https://amp.independent.ie/business/irish/ibrc-seeks-25-5m-over-boutique-hotel-loans-26878941.html

    Game, set and match.


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    #60
    TomasMacR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭TomasMacR


    Allinall wrote: »
    Game, set and match.

    Pretty much. If all that adds up and is accurate they are in the same league as those Gorse Hill O Donnell gobshįtes. I’m wondering why it is those that owe exceptionally high amounts are the most deluded. Is it that they have no real understanding of what money is because it has not been something they have ever had to worry about or earn.


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    #61
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    TomasMacR wrote: »
    Pretty much. If all that adds up and is accurate they are in the same league as those Gorse Hill O Donnell gobshįtes. I’m wondering why it is those that owe exceptionally high amounts are the most deluded. Is it that they have no real understanding of what money is because it has not been something they have ever had to worry about or earn.

    Probably hed up the ass syndrome, there was an epidemic in the early 2000’s.


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