Why are salaries in Europe so much lower than in the US?

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what do you mean by 'labour reform'?

Easier to demand more of workers, easier to fire

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Easier to demand more of workers, easier to fire

edgy, yet progressive!

Mad_maxx

kunst nugget wrote: »

Do you want business to have the ability to treat their workers in a much shabbier manner and pay them lower wages and the freedom to do what they want for a bit of extra GDP that's really going to be of no benefit to the average Joe? I'm not sure that's a trade off I'd want...

It's a brave new world since China became a force, unfortunately French workers still believe they can be protected like it was the 1970,s

Im not in favour of the tooth claw american model but compared to Germany, France and Italy are paralysed with union intransigence

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

edgy, yet progressive!

No, realistic in that the world is now small and Europeans cannot be cosseted, germany has it most right in my view, best social market model

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's a brave new world since China became a force, unfortunately French workers still believe they can be protected like it was the 1970,s

Im not in favour of the tooth claw american model but compared to Germany, France and Italy are paralysed with union intransigence

protectionism, interesting!

its interesting that since the reduction of union movements, productivity has sored, but wage inflation has been poor to respond, remaining largely stagnant for many, hardly related, are they?

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote: »

No, realistic in that the world is now small and Europeans cannot be cosseted, germany has it most right in my view, best social market model

again, patience! i suspect Germany's economy will eventually wobble

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, patience! i suspect Germany's economy will eventually wobble

I'll just sit here and be patient

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote:

I'll just sit here and be patient

When you create a major economic zone, such as the EU, with a poor surplus recycling mechanism, expect trouble

Electric Sheep

danger mouse wrote: »

Europeans only work 10 months a year, Americans are lucky to get 10 days leave.

I see that quoted here a lot, but it is not true. I live in the US and have 30 days paid time off, in addition to public holidays. You negotiate these things with your employer before taking a position. Most decent jobs give more than 10 days

Electric Sheep

Beasty wrote: »

In the US you have to fund your own healthcare and pensions

In most decent organizations health care is heavily subsidizedby the employer. This is the sort of benefit that you take into account when deciding whether or not to take a position.

Wanderer78

Electric Sheep wrote:

In most decent organizations health care is heavily subsidizedby the employer. This is the sort of benefit that you take into account when deciding whether or not to take a position.

What if you don't have a choice of working for 'decent organisations'?

Electric Sheep

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What if you don't have a choice of working for 'decent organisations'?

Then you will have to fund it yourself. I feel that the big difference between the US and Europe is that you are expected to take responsibility for yourself.

Wanderer78

Electric Sheep wrote:

Then you will have to fund it yourself. I feel that the big difference between the US and Europe is that you are expected to take responsibility for yourself.

What if you cannot afford to pay for further education, or that you accumulate large amounts of debt trying to do so?

Electric Sheep

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What if you cannot afford to pay for further education, or that you accumulate large amounts of debt trying to do so?

You go to a community college and take out student loans. Community colleges are very affordable and are ideal if you are working full time as well.

Wanderer78

Electric Sheep wrote:

You go to a community college and take out student loans. Community colleges are very affordable and are ideal if you are working full time as well.

With American student debt slowly heading towards 2 trillion, is this approach truly working? Is working full time and studying, truly beneficial to society, and to those doing it?

Electric Sheep

Wanderer78 wrote: »

With American student debt slowly heading towards 2 trillion, is this approach truly working? Is working full time and studying, truly beneficial to society, and to those doing it?

It benefited me greatly, I would describe it as life changing in fact.

Wanderer78

Electric Sheep wrote: »

It benefited me greatly, I would describe it as life changing in fact.

many americans dont seem to think so, so much so, thats its one of the main talked about issues during political debates. i suspect, the only ones truly benefiting from this approach is the financial institutions that are creating the credit/debt in the first place, by heavily indebting these people, largely for life

goose2005

Manic Moran wrote: »

There is a rather sizable difference in the various benefits available to typical workers in the US, depending very much on what you do. I'm fairly much in the middle bracket.

My wife and I both have 401ks. It's a "put a portion of your tax-exempt salary into a savings fund" thing. All three of my jobs have provided it, and all have provided matching, which means that if you put a percentage in, the company will match it on a ratio basis. So if I put 5% of my pre-tax money into the 401k, the company pays in an extra 3%. So this is, in effect, a 3% annual bonus which doesn't get reported or taxed. I just can't touch it until I retire, so I'm only personally saving half my income from that source. The exact match figures vary by company. If your employer doesn't do a 401k, there are IRA options instead.

In addition, I can expect a pension from my government job. I expect quite a reasonable retirement. I know a good number of people who have worked for the government for 20 years, and then used the pension (at age 38) as an investment fund while they work a regular salary in the private workforce.

Vacation time tends to be on a very sharp scale. The first year, indeed, vacation is limited, but tends to accrue with seniority. After two or three years, the figures get quite reasonable. I personally get some 6-7 weeks off, including the ten government holidays, I'd need to do the maths. My paid paternity leave was 6 weeks for each kid (one from the government, the second I was working private sector).

Healthcare is expensive without insurance, no two ways about it, but my insurance, through my employer always, has been quite reasonable. The expensive bit is my wife, there is a significant increase in price for a dependent who can work but doesn't. When she worked, her own insurance outlay was barely 10% of what I'm paying now. That said, it's also not too ridiculous a drain. We pay $15 to see a doctor, I don't think it was more than $2000 in the hospital for the emergency C-section. Not enough to put me in the poorhouse.

When I emigrated, it was for higher pay and cheaper cost of living. I found it. As it happened, I also found better weather and some damned good scenery, but that was a by-the-way.

Yes, upper-middle-class Americans have a better lifestyle than upper-middle-class Irish people. But at what cost?

Dick phelan

My impression of America is that it would be a great place to live if and only if you are rich. I don't mean middle class either, America used be the best country in the world to be middle class, now the middle class have been destroyed, very common now people have to have 2 even 3 jobs just to afford things that should be very affordable for those in the middle like sending their kids to college or getting decent healthcare. America has been in decline for a while now, don't be fooled by GDP socially the place has been getting worse for a long time. They have serious issues with drugs, suicide and appear very socially and racially divided.

Americans in my experience are generally very nice people and i do think theirs a certain snobbery from Europeans viewing them as idiots. I also don't buy into the rhetoric that it's some evil war mongering machine, Yes American foreign policy has had some disasters but does anyone honestly think the world would be a better place if Russia or god forbid communist China where the biggest military power, i also think Irish people have very little to complain about regarding America, they are an ally and a close friend, they also provide a massive portion of our jobs and i think it's a bit rich of use to act like they are the great evil in the world while we drive to work for a US company. and i'm sick of hypocrites moaning about the evils of America while saying nothing about disgusting places like China, Saudi Arabia etc.

Might be unpopular but i believe overall America has done more good then bad in the world.
However i'm a bit sick of hearing them tell me America is the greatest country in the world, It clearly isn't, is it a good country relative to the world, of course but theirs hardly a metric you could use be it healthcare, education, social justice, crime, overall happiness etc that suggests it's even in the top 10 countries in the world. I feel a lot of American's believe everyone wants to be like them when the majority in Europe or indeed other parts of the world look at the US and say "Thanks but no thanks".

Electric Sheep

Wanderer78 wrote: »

many americans dont seem to think so, so much so, thats its one of the main talked about issues during political debates. i suspect, the only ones truly benefiting from this approach is the financial institutions that are creating the credit/debt in the first place, by heavily indebting these people, largely for life

Coomunity Colleges are very affordable, you would not be getting into much debt, none in fact if you are working. You can do a two year associates degree, and finish your full degree at a 4 year college. The smartest thing to do is get the associates degree, get an entry level job in the field, and have your employer pay for you to finish your degree.

There are ways to achieve most things if you are willing to put in the effort.

the-island-man

This thread makes me think of this clip from the Newsroom sitcom:

BBFAN

I'd still much rather live in a country where I'm not worried about my grandkid getting shot in school.

Timistry

Im surprised that the Australia median figure was so low. I thought it was about 75K

nice_guy80

Samson Tasty Dingo wrote: »

It doesn't lead the way. You're quoting the median figure and ignoring an absolutely massive wage gap inequality in the US.


Turn the statistics on their head and look at % of people living on less than $5.50 per day.


Ireland 1%
Australia 0.7%
Germany 0.4%
France 0.7%
Sweden 1%
USA 2.1%

It's some people's life mission to spend less than €5.50 per day

Franz Von Peppercorn

Electric Sheep wrote: »

It benefited me greatly, I would describe it as life changing in fact.

You’re alright jack. Until you get sick.

Noo

Timistry wrote: »

Im surprised that the Australia median figure was so low. I thought it was about 75K

Are you thinking US$75k as per the original post? Because that is over AUD$100k, which is certainly not the median. Median in Aus for 2018 is actually lower than quoted, it's about AUD$55k (US$39k). However the average is AUD$85k which certainly makes for better reading.

Edit: Another thing to remember is that most Irish in Australia long term are there due to meeting the high level of education and experience needed for long term skilled Visas, putting them on above average salaries compared to your every day Australian. And probably similar for the US based posters on this thread too.

Manic Moran

Noo wrote: »

Are you thinking US$75k as per the original post? Because that is over AUD$100k, which is certainly not the median. Median in Aus for 2018 is actually lower than quoted, it's about AUD$55k (US$39k). However the average is AUD$85k which certainly makes for better reading.

Edit: Another thing to remember is that most Irish in Australia long term are there due to meeting the high level of education and experience needed for long term skilled Visas, putting them on above average salaries compared to your every day Australian. And probably similar for the US based posters on this thread too.

Can’t speak for the others, but i’m a US-born citizen.

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Coomunity Colleges are very affordable, you would not be getting into much debt, none in fact if you are working. You can do a two year associates degree, and finish your full degree at a 4 year college. The smartest thing to do is get the associates degree, get an entry level job in the field, and have your employer pay for you to finish your degree.

There are ways to achieve most things if you are willing to put in the effort.

This. Even the humble barista serving you your coffee at Starbucks can get a bachelor’s degree paid for. https://www.starbucks.com/careers/working-at-starbucks/education

My son’s college degree is mostly going to be paid for by the government, a work perk I transferred to him (I also had vocational training subsidized, in my case, I chose my pilot’s license). Most of my master’s will be paid for by my private sector (video games) employer, I expect to start this autumn.

There are many people who choose to take a route which will result in debt. They believe that going to this particular university over that is worth it, or that they just don’t want to serve coffee for four years, do a stint in the Army, or whatever which will cover the cost. That is generally their choice, or their parents did not make decisions to account for them. That does not, however, mean that just because you go to college, you must come out saddled with debt in the US.

Ray Palmer

I lived and worked in the US for a while, my siblings live there and I have lots of friends who grew up there. What ever figures you are looking at does not accurately show the reality.
Americans are certainly not more productive by the work they do. Economic scales means they can generate more money but that does not mean productive. Worked on electronic chip design and work for a month could be done in 2 days. I was bored out of my mind but the American workers treated work like a social club.
My sister is rich even for a the US and lives very well. My brother lives comfortably but some of the people who work in the company are paid very poorly and have additional jobs to make ends meet.
Now my friends are a spread across economic scales as I met them through gigs and socialising. One has a terrible limp because he broke his leg and had to rely on a free clinc due to costs. It was 2 days before he got it in a cast. If he went to hospital it would have bankrupt his family.
When you live there you start to notice odd things and find out why they are different there. All the car parks have people in booths taking the money which just looks a little odd. Then you find out that it is cheaper to hire a person than have a machine do it like here. I know there are some booths here but it is rare there the machines are really rare. They even replaced machines with people. These people typically have 2 jobs.
You will see entire families sleeping rough on the streets there. The property people live in is way worse than the worst here. A friend of mine lived in a tent inside his apartment due to the leaks in the roof. There was a waterfall on the wall that froze during the winter which was due to a pipe leaking.

Electric Sheep

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Electric Sheep wrote: »

It benefited me greatly, I would describe it as life changing in fact.

You’re alright jack. Until you get sick.

At least I will be diagnosed in a timely and accurate fashion.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Electric Sheep wrote: »

At least I will be diagnosed in a timely and accurate fashion.

You mean by the same health screening laboratories that did such an accurate and timely job with the cervical smear tests?