Who is/was Ireland's most famous sports star?

partyguinness

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Sorry.

You are 100% wrong there.

He is an Irish player who plays for England.

100% wrong...WTF. You line up for England/Ireland/France whoever - then you play for that team ergo you are (in this instance) an English cricket player.

Do commentators during the game go: "And up to the crease for England is the Irish player Eoin Morgan."

or "And as we watch the English and Irish player warm up before the first Test..."

Get real.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

As regards your other comment - if Kevin Kilbane got kicked out of a pub in Coventry or Sunderland because he lined out for a country that had a militaristic anti-British national anthem; I'm fairly sure you'd be outraged.....

I would not care less. That's somebody else's issue and nothing whatsoever to do with my points.

gormdubhgorm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Sorry.

You are 100% wrong there.

He is an Irish player who plays for England.

Big difference.

Complete double standard, its gas the anti British thing, when English players have been coming over to play for us for decades. Its mad really as a feature in Irish society that this sort of hypocrisy goes so completely unchallenged.

So in a roundabout way - What your saying is that the British/English are OK to claim all players born in Britain as thier own regardless of whether they identify as British and played for a different country.
From James McClean to Andy Townsend and everything in-between?

odyssey06

We've nabbed CJ Stander from South Africa.
He plays for the Irish rugby team - note, not the "island of Ireland" rugby team.

But is he still a famous South African in Ireland? Yes.
There is such a thing as dual nationality, especially when it comes to using residency status to play for a sporting team at a higher level.

gormdubhgorm

odyssey06 wrote: »

We've nabbed CJ Stander from South Africa.
He plays for the Irish rugby team - note, not the "island of Ireland" rugby team.

But is he still a famous South African in Ireland? Yes.
There is such a thing as dual nationality, especially when it comes to using residency status to play for a sporting team at a higher level.

Do the South African's view him as South African though?
Personally to me he is not Irish at all as he has not lineage to any Irishness.
He is only Irish on paper.

eagle eye

gormdubhgorm wrote:

Do the South African's view him as South African though? Personally to me he is not Irish at all as he has not lineage to any Irishness. He is only Irish on paper.

How many people outside of full on rugby fans know that he is not Irish though?

odyssey06

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Do the South African's view him as South African though?
Personally to me he is not Irish at all as he has not lineage to any Irishness.
He is only Irish on paper.

Well I would agree with you on that score, on the other hand CJ Stander is an Irish rugby player, so we can't really be too precious about Eoin Morgan - who represented Ireland in a Cricket World Cup, was born in Dublin but had dual nationality via an English mum.

Serious cricket fans would be well aware that he has represented two different countries in a World Cup.

salmocab

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Do the South African's view him as South African though?
Personally to me he is not Irish at all as he has not lineage to any Irishness.
He is only Irish on paper.

He lives and pays his taxes here, soccer players with a granny who’s Irish may not have lived here and are considered Irish. It’s a very complex issue, if he stays and has a child here who goes on to play for Ireland does the child have Irish lineage? Where do we draw that line 2nd generation 3rd?
I’m not overly comfortable with it but someone like that has lived and worked here for several years which is some commitment to the country albeit for personal and professional reasons.

gormdubhgorm

eagle eye wrote: »

How many people outside of full on rugby fans know that he is not Irish though?

I am not a full on rugby fan more of a casual when big games are on.
And I know about the Rugby residency rule for instance.

Thankfully a full on Irishman like McGregor is the most famous, despite all his faults he is sportsman who is Irish.
He even used to be fluent in Irish in his younger days.
Whereas the likes of CJ Stander wouldn't know what a fada is. He is just here for the money, it is a convenient Irishness nothing more.

Marcus Rashford

partyguinness wrote: »

Marcus Rashford wrote: »

In circumstances where your own country doesn’t actually compete and you’re a world class player, what reasonable person wouldn’t play for someone else?

What’s the alternative? “Feck that, I’m a rabid republican, I’ll just take up another sport”?!

I didn't see George Best, Ryan Giggs, Johnny Giles jumping across trying to play for England.

Sergio Parisse would have had more international success if he played for Argentina. But let's not derail the thread.

Eh, his home country, Ireland, didn’t compete!

Your comparison is silly.

Who would blame John Giles, Ryan Giggs, or George Best playing for another country if Ireland/Wales/Northern Ireland didn’t play international football?

partyguinness

Marcus Rashford wrote: »

Eh, his home country, Ireland, didn’t compete!

Your comparison is silly.

Who would blame John Giles, Ryan Giggs, or George Best playing for another country if Ireland/Wales/Northern Ireland didn’t play international football?

I am referring to the fact Ireland in the 50s, 60s or 70s did not qualify for any international tournaments. Came close in 66 but lost a play off to Spain. Giles has lived in England since the late 1950s and still does plus he was one of the best midfielders in world football from about 65 to 75 but yet no chance of playing in the WC.

Giggs could have played for England and played in WCs etc multiple times.

Didn't think I had to spell that out.

Augme

partyguinness wrote: »

I am referring to the fact Ireland in the 50s, 60s or 70s did not qualify for any international tournaments. Came close in 66 but lost a play off to Spain. Giles has lived in England since the late 1950s and still does plus he was one of the best midfielders in world football from about 65 to 75 but yet no chance of playing in the WC.

Giggs could have played for England and played in WCs etc multiple times.

Didn't think I had to spell that out.

You don't have to spell it out, you just have to stop getting it wrong.

Giles, giggs etc could still play international football for their respective counties.

keeponhurling

Muhammad Ali would be another good shout, he was very famous.
Irish ancestry.

keeponhurling

To my mind, mixed martial arts is a serious minority sport, where globally I would say most people never even heard of the sport, let alone the name of any participants.
McGregor was pretty much unknown out of these circles before the Mayweather boxing fight.

He became very famous in wider boxing circles, it was one if the highest earning fights ever.
But it was one fight , which he lost. Not sure if even boxing fans could recall his name in, say, 10 years time - they’ll remember Mayweather.

Anyways I just wonder is his fame globally over estimated. I know currently he is very popular in Ireland and the US.

pleas advice

Shaquille O'Neal

Del.Monte

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not a full on rugby fan more of a casual when big games are on.
And I know about the Rugby residency rule for instance.

Thankfully a full on Irishman like McGregor is the most famous, despite all his faults he is sportsman who is Irish.
He even used to be fluent in Irish in his younger days.
Whereas the likes of CJ Stander wouldn't know what a fada is. He is just here for the money, it is a convenient Irishness nothing more.

Shame on you mentioning that scumbag and CJ in the same post.

Marcus Rashford

partyguinness wrote: »

Marcus Rashford wrote: »

Eh, his home country, Ireland, didn’t compete!

Your comparison is silly.

Who would blame John Giles, Ryan Giggs, or George Best playing for another country if Ireland/Wales/Northern Ireland didn’t play international football?

I am referring to the fact Ireland in the 50s, 60s or 70s did not qualify for any international tournaments. Came close in 66 but lost a play off to Spain. Giles has lived in England since the late 1950s and still does plus he was one of the best midfielders in world football from about 65 to 75 but yet no chance of playing in the WC.

Giggs could have played for England and played in WCs etc multiple times.

Didn't think I had to spell that out.

You did actually because it’s an utterly irrelevant and inaccurate point. The comparison isn’t valid at all.

Morgan couldn’t even play the sport, Test cricket, for Ireland. We didn’t compete.

Giles’ Ireland and Best’s Northern Ireland just weren’t that good.

Completely different and a ridiculous comparison.

partyguinness

Marcus Rashford wrote: »

You did actually because it’s an utterly irrelevant and inaccurate point. The comparison isn’t valid at all.

Morgan couldn’t even play the sport, Test cricket, for Ireland. We didn’t compete.

Giles’ Ireland and Best’s Northern Ireland just weren’t that good.

Completely different and a ridiculous comparison.

Oh right so cricket and Test cricket according to your reckoning are two completely different 'sport'- yeah that makes a lot of sense.

They are still both cricket. Cricket and baseball are two different sports. Cricket and rugby are two different sports.

I think that's the sound of straw clutching I hear.

Kudos on the novel argument though and throwing out something akin to the Chewbacca Defence.

D9Male

WTF, that is not a "novel argument".

Eoin Morgan wanted to play Test cricket. He couldn't do so for Ireland. It was impossible.

So he had to play for another country.

These aren't even arguments, they're facts. I don't get the big deal.

A similar thing happens in football. A number of Kosovans weren't able to play for Kosovo as they didn't exist in international football, so they played for Albania or Bosnia.

Lorik Cana is Kosovan. He was born in Pristina and is arguably the greatest footballer ever from Kosovo.

He played a number of FIFA-sanctioned friendlies for Kosovo during his playing career. But he represented (with pride) Albania in full internationals as that was his only realistic option to play at the highest level of international football. Admittedly the whole Kosovan - Albanian relationship is a lot tighter than the Ireland - England one, but the point still stands.

I would argue that you are making a novel argument as the Eoin Morgan situation is fairly widely understood in the world of cricket.

jmayo

pleas advice wrote: »

Inspired by another thread here, who do you think would make the list?

I'd have Roy Keane at the top, followed by Rory McIlroy and Brian O'Driscoll, who else would make the top 5?

I would say fook all in the grand scheme of things know O'Driscoll.

This isn't about the most successful in the world but the best known.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

No way a cricket player is the third most known Irish celebrity, especially one that doesn't play for Ireland. Zimbabwe are in the top 10 of cricket, that's worse than rugby for global audience! Think it's only popular in pockets of England and its former colonies really (bar India where it is legitimately big).

Sheamus in the WWE would be more well known.

Ehh India population over 1.3 billion.
Pakistan population over 193 million
Bangladesh 162 million

Morgan has captained England at World Cup and played in Indian Premier League and Pakistani Super League.

Just because people in Ireland don't know him and he isn't on every other American talk show or on CNN/Fox News coming out of latest court appearance doesn't mean he isn't well known.

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Just recently McGregor has:

Lead the Chicago paddys day parade
Appeared on Jimmy Fallon
Gave pre game speech in the locker room of the Boston bruins
Did similar with the dallas cowboys
Was a guest of Putin at the World Cup in Russia
Been parodied on SNL

When another Irish sports person gets that kind of attention then they can claim to be as famous as him.

Ehh all American.

You must be American if you think the world is just America.

Granted appearing as Putin's mate gets you noticed as well.

partyguinness

D9Male wrote: »

WTF, that is not a "novel argument".

Eoin Morgan wanted to play Test cricket. He couldn't do so for Ireland. It was impossible.

So he had to play for another country.

These aren't even arguments, they're facts. I don't get the big deal.

Eoin Morgan could have stayed playing cricket for Ireland and with the hope and expectation that they would progress to Test cricket but he said 'No- I'll just jump across and play for England. Easier option'

Fine good luck to him.

Likewise with my Giggs analogy. 'Do I want to play at the WC and EC? Yes of course every footballer does. Won't happen with Wales so I'll just throw in my oar with England.'

But no Giggs for example said I will play for my country and the love of my country.

Shame Eoin Morgan is not built with similar moral fibre.

It's the exact same logic with Declan Rice and Jack Grealish in recent times and declaring for England. They are backing the better horse with their heads. Fine.

jmayo

partyguinness wrote: »

Eoin Morgan could have stayed playing cricket for Ireland and with the hope and expectation that they would progress to Test cricket but he said 'No- I'll just jump across and play for England. Easier option'

Fine good luck to him.

Likewise with my Giggs analogy. 'Do I want to play at the WC and EC? Yes of course every footballer does. Won't happen with Wales so I'll just throw in my oar with England.'

But no Giggs for example said I will play for my country and the love of my country.
Edit: probably still is?

Shame Eoin Morgan is not built with similar moral fibre.

It's the exact same logic with Declan Rice and Jack Grealish in recent times and declaring for England. They are backing the better horse with their heads. Fine.

Actually I think it might also have something to do with salary as well.
Morgan was on much better salary as English international, he is similar to rugby international contract AFAIK.

Most people in Ireland would not have realised a few years ago he was one of the best paid Irish sportsmen.

I think Morgan is converse of Rice and Grealish.
They had been born and bred in England, declared first for another country until their country of birth arrived and then jumped ship whereas Morgan first played for country of birth and then jumped ship.
Also he played hurling FFS.
Grealish only played football.

Now Morgan did hold a British passport since birth through his mother and he admits he always wanted to play for England.
Not sure if the other two numpties have Irish passports or not ?

TomasMacR

partyguinness wrote: »

Eoin Morgan could have stayed playing cricket for Ireland and with the hope and expectation that they would progress to Test cricket but he said 'No- I'll just jump across and play for England. Easier option'

Fine good luck to him.

Likewise with my Giggs analogy. 'Do I want to play at the WC and EC? Yes of course every footballer does. Won't happen with Wales so I'll just throw in my oar with England.'

But no Giggs for example said I will play for my country and the love of my country.

Shame Eoin Morgan is not built with similar moral fibre.

It's the exact same logic with Declan Rice and Jack Grealish in recent times and declaring for England. They are backing the better horse with their heads. Fine.

I don't know anything about cricket...but is it not very different in Eoin Morgans case. With Giggs, Rice, Grealish, Bale etc. they can choose which country to represent and make a packet either way. With Eoin Morgan is not a case of earn sweet f-all representing one country (potentially even struggle financially?) but a lot with another.

seems so...

http://tsmsportz.com/cricket/ireland-cricketers-salaries/

http://tsmsportz.com/cricket/england-cricketers-salaries/

highest paid here $75k vs what hes getting £900k hes on.

wouldn't be belting out God Save the Queen or anything but its a no brainer, good luck to him.

D9Male

partyguinness wrote: »

Eoin Morgan could have stayed playing cricket for Ireland and with the hope and expectation that they would progress to Test cricket but he said 'No- I'll just jump across and play for England. Easier option'

Fine good luck to him.

Likewise with my Giggs analogy. 'Do I want to play at the WC and EC? Yes of course every footballer does. Won't happen with Wales so I'll just throw in my oar with England.'

But no Giggs for example said I will play for my country and the love of my country.

Shame Eoin Morgan is not built with similar moral fibre.

It's the exact same logic with Declan Rice and Jack Grealish in recent times and declaring for England. They are backing the better horse with their heads. Fine.

Are you just completely ignoring my post above and those of others?

It is a lot more nuanced than that. Test cricket is different from one day cricket. Morgan couldn't reach the top of his profession with Ireland.

partyguinness

TomasMacR wrote: »

I don't know anything about cricket...but is it not very different in Eoin Morgans case. With Giggs, Rice, Grealish, Bale etc. they can choose which country to represent and make a packet either way. With Eoin Morgan is not a case of earn sweet f-all representing one country (potentially even struggle financially?) but a lot with another.

seems so...

http://tsmsportz.com/cricket/ireland-cricketers-salaries/

http://tsmsportz.com/cricket/england-cricketers-salaries/

highest paid here $75k vs what hes getting £900k hes on.

wouldn't be belting out God Save the Queen or anything but its a no brainer, good luck to him.

Oh yeah there is no doubt he has done it for his own personal wealth and glory and I'm sure he doesn't give a flying monkeys have anybody else thinks. Across all sports it comes down to money.

blade1

Declan Burns and Gerry Loftus.
They were Superstars after all.

Officer999

pleas advice wrote: »

Inspired by another thread here, who do you think would make the list?

I'd have Roy Keane at the top, followed by Rory McIlroy and Brian O'Driscoll, who else would make the top 5?

So if Roy Keane walked down Manhattan or the strip in Vegas you're saying he would be more recognised and get flocked by more people than McGregor?

TCM

Del.Monte wrote:

Shame on you mentioning that scumbag and CJ in the same post.

CJ's not a scumbag, is he?

D9Male

Why is Vegas the metric here? Why not Mumbai, or Sydney or Cape Town?

I do think the answer is McGregor, but the above argument doesn't mean anything.

Officer999

D9Male wrote: »

Why is Vegas the metric here? Why not Mumbai, or Sydney or Cape Town?

I do think the answer is McGregor, but the above argument doesn't mean anything.

Who said it was?

I'm using examples just like you are.

blade1

If Roy Keane and Conor McGregor walked through Manchester I reckon more would recognise Keane.