Hogging a chargepoint

kceire

kceire wrote: »

You obviously don't understand the difference between SCP's and FCP's.
If I parked at a petrol pump, filled up, then went in and ordered a roll and tea and proceeded to sit down in the garage and eat my roll and tea while leaving my car parked at the pump, would you be annoyed if that was the only petrol pump on the forecourt?

Technically, i'm not hogging the petrol pump, i've used it correctly and paid correctly.

Again, completely different to the post I quoted. To use the same scenario, it would be similar to me pulling into a petrol station and the guy using the only pump there has filled to 75% full. I need a full tank to get home so its bad etiquette for him not to finish up right there and let me start filling up?

Del2005

kceire wrote: »

What if I sit and eat said roll and tea, and then proceed to pay for the roll, tea and petrol in one go afterwards. I haven't finished the transaction then, and i'm hogging the pump.

That's not the same as leaving your vehicle charging to 100%

kceire wrote: »

Or what if I left the pump in the car after the first click and said ill be back in 5 mins when the fuel level has settled as I can squeeze an extra 3c in there then.

When you aren't pumping fuel you are being inconsiderate. If you are pumping fuel then there's nothing wrong, waiting 5 minutes you aren't pumping fuel so you are being inconsiderate.

But there's a massive difference between leaving the vehicle while it's not being charged/fueled and leaving it charge to the last.

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, completely different to the post I quoted. To use the same scenario, it would be similar to me pulling into a petrol station and the guy using the only pump there has filled to 75% full. I need a full tank to get home so its bad etiquette for him not to finish up right there and let me start filling up?

But what if the pump pumps at full flow rate up to 80% and then 1ml droplets after that until full.

That's hogging for no real gain.

The person would be quicker disconnecting and driving to their destination or the next FCP on route and refill to 80% there.

That's not their fault. They need a charge, the car is charging. They shouldn't have to give it up cos you need more of a charge. What if they need 95% to get home?

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not their fault. They need a charge, the car is charging. They shouldn't have to give it up cos you need more of a charge. What if they need 95% to get home?

I'd argue they bought the wrong car and an EV was not suited for their needs as obviously they need a lot more than 95% to make their trip as they have used whatever battery % in getting from their destination to said charger.

I don't use Public Charging but I do see the issue with people hogging.
Are you aware that it takes about 30 mins to go from say 30% to 80% in a Leaf and then another hour to get from 80% to 100%.

In the time it took for them to get from 80-100, they would be closer to home or indeed at the next FCP charging to 80% and actually be home quicker.

As said above charging to 100% on a rapid is equivalent of filling a car for 5 minutes and then using extra 20 minutes to make sure that the tank really is full. The driver does nothing wrong just that he's an inconsiderate person hogging an infinite resource. At the worst examples the person effectively parks the car for a day at the petrol station leaving hose in the filler cap and like hogging a charger there is no cost for the driver to do so. Might even save a couple of Euro for avoiding parking charges.

All of the rapid chargers should have per minute charge for charging and the cost should be accumulating even if the car has stopped charging if the session has not been ended with the RFID. The destination chargers should have cost per kWh on the top of a standard parking charge. In my opinion. With per minute charging you have a choice to continue to do so or vacate the charger as quickly as possible and drive to the next charger later on reducing your personal charging cost per kilometer compared to staying there until 100%.

the_pen_turner

kceire wrote: »

What if I sit and eat said roll and tea, and then proceed to pay for the roll, tea and petrol in one go afterwards. I haven't finished the transaction then, and i'm hogging the pump.

Or what if I left the pump in the car after the first click and said ill be back in 5 mins when the fuel level has settled as I can squeeze an extra 3c in there then.



Doesn't matter, they were there first.

You are clutching at straws.
That is total rubbish. No bearing on my post or reality.

fricatus

Deleted User wrote: »

What if they need 95% to get home?

Then they can plug in somewhere else along the way. It would make more sense to stop at another charger, even a slow one, in that scenario.

The point is that they're adding very little extra range for every minute they're charging above 90%.

fricatus

fricatus wrote: »

Then they can plug in somewhere else along the way. It would make more sense to stop at another charger, even a slow one, in that scenario.

The point is that they're adding very little extra range for every minute they're charging above 90%.

It's waste of everybody's time charging for example a LEAF past 90 percent in case of both L24 and L40. Not sure about the L30. And also it's waste of time to public charge full stop if you can make it to your regular parking/charging stop without charging.

the_pen_turner

samih wrote: »

It's waste of everybody's time charging for example a LEAF past 90 percent in case of both L24 and L40. Not sure about the L30. And also it's waste of time to public charge full stop if you can make it to your regular parking/charging stop without charging.

For most people in most situations yes it probably is a waste of time.

But the rest is might be needed.
Maybe the have a long journey to do
Or maybe there is no parking near a charge point or plug close by
Or don't feel safe waiting around for 30 minutes at a random petrol station at all hours with God knows who around

It doesn't matter why they are fully charging. It's their decision to make

the_pen_turner

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Maybe the have a long journey to do
Or maybe there is no parking near a charge point or plug close by
Or don't feel safe waiting around for 30 minutes at a random petrol station at all hours with God knows who around

If they have far to go they should really spend 5-10 minutes on the charger nearer where they are going instead of 60 minutes to wait for the the last 10 percent to charge. Why add an extra 45-50 minutes to your already long journey while possibly inconviniencing others too? The same for the argument #2.

For the random petrol station comment I would say that it's clutching the straws. If you don't feel safe at a charging station lock the door and ring the Guards.

Once we get charging for charging for example at 0.20 c/min staying an extra 45 minutes at the charger will cost the user an extra 9 euro for 10 percent of battery on top of the 8 Euro the first 40 minutes cost them where they got up to 80 percent. At least then there will be a direct cost for your decision on how to manage your public charging. Continuing to overstay at the rapids will still potentially inconvience others but it will definitely mostly inconvenience the user's bank account and hopefully not too many people are prepared to pay over the odds for their electricity.

Silent Running

I have to admit that I have been in the situation where a full, well 94%, charge is necessary.

Last week I was driving across the UK and there is a bit of a gap between CCS chargers on the M4. I pulled into Chievely services and had plugged in when an I3 pulled up. I asked her if she only needed a splash or a full charge. She said a full charge, so I told her I had to get 30 minutes of charge to make the next charger. She understood and headed off to the next charger heading East, I was headed West.

I always stay with the car at rapid chargers, and will normally unplug at 80%. Sitting there taking electricity in a dribble doesn't appeal to me. Other than dire necessity, I don't know why people would wait until charged to 100%.

I'm really hoping that ESB will charge per minute for rapid charging. If not we are back to square one (apart from the freeloader situation).

Silent Running

Silent Running wrote: »

I have to admit that I have been in the situation where a full, well 94%, charge is necessary.

Last week I was driving across the UK and there is a bit of a gap between CCS chargers on the M4. I pulled into Chievely services and had plugged in when an I3 pulled up. I asked her if she only needed a splash or a full charge. She said a full charge, so I told her I had to get 30 minutes of charge to make the next charger. She understood and headed off to the next charger heading East, I was headed West.

I always stay with the car at rapid chargers, and will normally unplug at 80%. Sitting there taking electricity in a dribble doesn't appeal to me. Other than dire necessity, I don't know why people would wait until charged to 100%.

Ioniq actually forces you to make the right decision i.e. unplugs you at 94 percent and charges quite quickly up to that too. Wish Nissans did and behaved the same way.

Kramer

Silent Running wrote: »

I have to admit that I have been in the situation where a full, well 94%, charge is necessary.

#Me too .
Last week we drove from the Castlebar rapid charger to the one in Letterkenny, which was, I think, almost 200km. NO fast chargers in between (Sligo down).
Needed a full charge & as we started at over 50%, it still didn't take long, maybe 20 minutes. Didn't delay anyone & used the charger as intended.

The Ioniq keeps charging at 22kWs, right up to stopping at 94%.

No one would have an issue with that, someone on a long journey etc.

The main issue, in my experience, is with locals, who just use the rapid chargers, because they are free. Not going anywhere, maybe home, maybe out for some shopping if the charger is near a Tesco etc. I don't begrudge them their free electricity, all EV users are entitled to use the resource - we are all paying for it.
I do see it as being highly ignorant & antisocial though to deprive someone on a journey from using the network, when they are away from their home charge point, just because they can.
Another issue is PHEVs being abandoned at rapid chargers, again, because there is no charge & no deterrent to misusing the resource. Not encountered that too much though, yet.

A simple charging structure will alleviate 90% of this misuse I reckon, overnight.

Won't deter the iPace, E-Tron & other high end EVs of course, €20 for a charge won't be an issue for them, but that won't be an issue I'll encounter too often I bet.

facehugger99

Does consistently charging your car to, say 80%, have any effect on the long-term storage capacity of the battery?

Genuine question btw - I'm not interested n the 'morality' of hogging a charge-point.

Kramer

facehugger99 wrote: »

Does consistently charging your car to, say 80%, have any effect on the long-term storage capacity of the battery?

Depends largely on the car & other factors like the ambient temperature, driving environment etc. but most modern EVs have efficient battery management systems with battery cooling & heating, charge current throttling etc.

It's not an issue IMO.

creedp

the_pen_turner wrote: »

For most people in most situations yes it probably is a waste of time.

But the rest is might be needed.
Maybe the have a long journey to do
Or maybe there is no parking near a charge point or plug close by
Or don't feel safe waiting around for 30 minutes at a random petrol station at all hours with God knows who around

It doesn't matter why they are fully charging. It's their decision to make

Lots of mights and maybes. Most of the hogging examples given here will not tick any of those boxes and it will be most interesting to see how many of these people will continue to make the same decision once charging is introduced.

facehugger99

Kramer wrote: »

It's not an issue IMO.

Just wondering if that's an issue with people leaving the car until it gets to 100%.

Like I remember people saying it with mobile phones, that ideally they should be run down to close to 0% and then charged to 100% and unplugged.

Admittedly that could be bollox, but I've definitely heard a few people come out with that or something similar.

robbKer

facehugger99 wrote: »

Just wondering if that's an issue with people leaving the car until it gets to 100%.

Like I remember people saying it with mobile phones, that ideally they should be run down to close to 0% and then charged to 100% and unplugged.

Admittedly that could be bollox, but I've definitely heard a few people come out with that or something similar.

No idea about car batteries but this is the official apple line on Litium Ion Batteries as per their website: https://www.apple.com/ie/batteries/why-lithium-ion/

Charge your Apple lithium-ion battery whenever you want. There’s no need to let it discharge 100 per cent before recharging. Apple lithium-ion batteries work in charge cycles. You complete one charge cycle when you’ve used (discharged) an amount that equals 100 per cent of your battery’s capacity — but not necessarily all from one charge. For instance, you might use 75 per cent of your battery’s capacity one day, then recharge it fully overnight. If you use 25 per cent the next day, you will have discharged a total of 100 per cent, and the two days will add up to one charge cycle. It could take several days to complete a cycle. The capacity of any type of battery will diminish after a certain amount of recharging. With lithium-ion batteries, the capacity diminishes slightly with each complete charge cycle. Apple lithium-ion batteries are designed to hold at least 80 per cent of their original capacity for a high number of charge cycles, which varies depending on the product.

Kramer

Practically all new EV manufacturers offer 7/8 year, 160,000km or 200,000km battery warranties - they utilise buffers at both the top & bottom ends of the batteries capacity to ensure longevity.
Sure, some degradation will occur, but the general consensus is it's a non issue.
I'm sure there are early EVs that have covered hundreds of thousands of kms without much issue.

Gumbo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Or don't feel safe waiting around for 30 minutes at a random petrol station at all hours with God knows who around

But isint that what they are already doing???????

I don't get this point, it has no bearing on reality

Savage_Henry

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Maybe I lived in London too long, but I would suspect most people would answer 'yes' to that. I've literally seen people on crutches, people with one leg, people who looked about 90, women who were 8+ months pregnant falling around the bus while everyone pretended not to see them.

They have only one tired leg when i have 2.

the_pen_turner

kceire wrote: »

But isint that what they are already doing???????

I don't get this point, it has no bearing on reality

Not at all hours of the night though. If charging to 100% in the middle of the day saves you from sitting for 30 min really late at night then I would say that person is right.

There are lots of places I as a 30 something man wouldn't feel safe parking g for 30 min late at night

Gumbo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Not at all hours of the night though. If charging to 100% in the middle of the day saves you from sitting for 30 min really late at night then I would say that person is right.

There are lots of places I as a 30 something man wouldn't feel safe parking g for 30 min late at night

I don’t think that would happen in real life though.
If I spent an hour charging from 80% to 100% in new lands cross for example, where could I have been if I left at 80% an hour earlier? I don’t think it’s the dead of the night and most fast chargers are in public places, well lit with facilities.

I’m Prepared to be proved wrong so if you can point me to one that’s in a dangerous location I’ll accept that.

the_pen_turner

kceire wrote: »

I don’t think that would happen in real life though.
If I spent an hour charging from 80% to 100% in new lands cross for example, where could I have been if I left at 80% an hour earlier? I don’t think it’s the dead of the night and most fast chargers are in public places, well lit with facilities.

I’m Prepared to be proved wrong so if you can point me to one that’s in a dangerous location I’ll accept that.

my local one is in thurles train station. its the only one in the town i know of . dont have ev so not up on the locations.
the few times i have been in there when its dark during the winter i could easily see someone being afraid or nervious in there.

if i needed the full range to get somewhere i would rather wait for the full battery during the day at my leasure than 30 min in a risky situation

Gumbo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

my local one is in thurles train station. its the only one in the town i know of . dont have ev so not up on the locations.
the few times i have been in there when its dark during the winter i could easily see someone being afraid or nervious in there.

if i needed the full range to get somewhere i would rather wait for the full battery during the day at my leasure than 30 min in a risky situation

With all due respect, I think this is where the misunderstanding comes in.
The one in thurles train station is a slow charger. (destination charger).

It will take 4-8 hours for a charge on that charger and it’s designed to be plugged in all day.

Nobody would be giving out about hogging on these chargers as they are designed to be occupied all day as such.

Cashel and Urlingford would be your nearest fast chargers.

the_pen_turner

kceire wrote: »

With all due respect, I think this is where the misunderstanding comes in.
The one in thurles train station is a slow charger. (destination charger).

It will take 4-8 hours for a charge on that charger and it’s designed to be plugged in all day.

Nobody would be giving out about hogging on these chargers as they are designed to be occupied all day as such.

Cashel and Urlingford would be your nearest fast chargers.

i know its a slow charger. but my point still stands. its not somewhere i would want to be sitting for 30 minutes while a wait for a charge up (how ever small) to get me home or to the next charger.

fwi cashel is 25 min from thurles and there are 2 chargers spaces and open 24 hr at the topaz station. all good
urlingfor is at gala station and that closes at 10 pm i think.

Gumbo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i know its a slow charger. but my point still stands. its not somewhere i would want to be sitting for 30 minutes while a wait for a charge up (how ever small) to get me home or to the next charger.

fwi cashel is 25 min from thurles and there are 2 chargers spaces and open 24 hr at the topaz station. all good
urlingfor is at gala station and that closes at 10 pm i think.

That’s the point. You wouldn’t be plugging in for 30 mins or anything like that at the SCP. You’d be lucky to add any kind of range. At its best, it delivers 7kw per hour. For 3.5kw in a Leaf 24 with a 3.3kw on board charger, you would add only less than 5km range.

So the point of stopping at 80% would be to get to cashel or Urlingford where 15 mins would top you up more than enough to get home to thurles. That would avoid an hour on top of the 30 mins charging at the previous station.

creedp

the_pen_turner wrote: »

my local one is in thurles train station. its the only one in the town i know of . dont have ev so not up on the locations.
the few times i have been in there when its dark during the winter i could easily see someone being afraid or nervious in there.

if i needed the full range to get somewhere i would rather wait for the full battery during the day at my leasure than 30 min in a risky situation

But isn't this the point. Many of these hoggers do not need a full charge to reach their destination but are locals who for some reason unfathomable to most balanced people will hang around at a charger for up to an hour to suck up as little as 40 cent of electricity or less than 20 cent at domestic night rate.

Either they have no understanding of the cost of electricity or they need to seriously reconsider the opportunity cost of their leisure time.But then again maybe they are the kind of people to drive to their parents house to save on the cost of a shower.

As I said earlier I'd love to see how they will deal with a charge per kwh set as low as even 30 cent. Will they still insist on sucking up the last 10% charging capacity even if it will actually cost them hard cash?

wonski

I guess security guards should be posted around those slow chargers now in addition to etiquette guards around fast chargers.

Glad to have ice now

the_pen_turner

wonski wrote: »

I guess security guards should be posted around those slow chargers now in addition to etiquette guards around fast chargers.

Glad to have ice now

They are not all like that, probably very few. The one in cashel would be well lit up and a very public place

creedp

creedp wrote: »

But isn't this the point. Many of these hoggers do not need a full charge to reach their destination but are locals.....

With all due respect, how the hell do you know where they are from or what they need to charge for? A letter on a licence plate means nothing.

Stealthirl

Was chatting to a women at the Lucan FCP recently who feels very nervous using it late as theirs no lighting at the FCP and the teenagers that hang round there.

optimal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

With all due respect, how the hell do you know where they are from or what they need to charge for? A letter on a licence plate means nothing.

Do you mind me asking, do you drive an EV?

I don't see the relevance, but no, I don't.

...Ghost...

Deleted User wrote: »

Some day I'll be back to BEV when the network greatly improves in 3-5 years, remember , the network stalled in 2015, yes, we're that far behind, I've seen more and more Teslas at the Carlow DC and it just proves that even long range electric cars are at some point reliant on the network and it is a bad network.

It only proves that Teslas use the network, not they they need it. The owners could be plugging in without needing a charge, because they can.

Silent Running wrote: »

Then you have the argument that it has to go BRRMMMMM BRMMMMM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlVZMV0jvuU

samih wrote: »

SNIP-
And as said there is no issues with exhaust fumes on BEVs.

It's easy to forget this, isn't it? Lugging a large item in a hatch with the boot open, the smell of exhaust fumes getting into the car at every stop. Same problem does not exist in an ev.

facehugger99 wrote: »

Does consistently charging your car to, say 80%, have any effect on the long-term storage capacity of the battery?

Genuine question btw - I'm not interested n the 'morality' of hogging a charge-point.

Generally speaking, the battery is happiest at 30-70% state of charge. I wouldn't leave my EV at 100% or below 10% for too long.

optimal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't see the relevance, but no, I don't.

I wouldn’t have understood or appreciated the realities until I started driving the EV. I’m struck by how simple and obvious things apear to those that don’t have to do them. (And I don’t except myself from this!!)

I'm not saying anything is simple or obvious. I'm merely pointing out that using a fast charger to charge beyond 80%+ is not "hogging" the charger. Yes it's slow, and yes others could be getting more of a charge for the same duration they're using it. But they're entitled to use it, or to put it another way, as entitled as you are to use it. Sitting at 100% blocking others from using it is a different matter altogether.

optimal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not saying anything is simple or obvious. I'm merely pointing out that using a fast charger to charge beyond 80%+ is not "hogging" the charger. Yes it's slow, and yes others could be getting more of a charge for the same duration they're using it. But they're entitled to use it, or to put it another way, as entitled as you are to use it. Sitting at 100% blocking others from using it is a different matter altogether.

I think we agree on the last point. I don’t agree on your previous point. If someone has no need for the power then they should not be occupying the FC. They have a specific purpose which is to facilitate those traveling a distance who absolutely need charge to get to their destination. As I write this I am sitting at a FC and I need to get to a minimum of 85% to get home. Once I reach that if there’s no one waiting I might push it to 90% to give me flexibility. As I understand it it’s not good for the battery to FC it beyond this and some cars will slow down significantly when it gets to that level. If someone drives up I’ll chat them and will facilitate or at worst waiting time will pass quicker. A bit of give and take works wonders!! (Btw this is the 2nd one I visited so I am relieved it’s available!!)

The belaboured point I'm making is....... You've no idea how much charge someone needs. They could be in a similar situation to you for all you know, and need 90% to make sure they are able to get home.

The charge to 90 percent or even slightly above that happens quickly enough on most of the BEVs. It's the last 1-5 percent that take "hours" to complete.

You'd be better off driving the car to a next charger on you route, even a 7.4/22 kW post, as the car would actually charge faster at lower state of charge (below 90 percent) on those where the likes of 6.6 kW capable LEAF can add an extra 30 km or range in an hour. At a very high stage of charge the car takes between 0.1 and 2 kW from the 50 kW available while the next guy could have added 100+ km of range instead of your maybe 10 km of extra range in 20 minutes. And if the next charger on your route is a FC you could top by the same amount of energy in a few minutes instead of 40 minutes or whatever the last few percents take. Or if you're a local saving money: wait for an extra 20-40 minutes and save 16c in a process. It's not efficient use for yours or the next user's time.

So yeah, abandoning your car to a rapid/FC while you feck off to cinema or work is not on. It's ok to leave the car for a (quick) lunch but you should keep an eye on the queue while at it and go to reassure the guy waiting behind you that you're not going to hog the charger for hours and disconnect when you have enough charge to reach the destination. It's a good way to condition yourself for when the charging becomes payg and more expensive than charging at home.

jack.roe

I'm relatively new to the EV world, but I was thinking- should all car parks being built by local county councils going forward contain at least 1 FCP? I have contacted my local council about one currently being built and urged them to install a FCP. I also reached out to local councillors on Facebook about installing chargers, will be interesting to see if anything is done, but I think more people need to get on to their local councils, councillors, TDs etc.

creedp

Deleted User wrote: »

The belaboured point I'm making is....... You've no idea how much charge someone needs. They could be in a similar situation to you for all you know, and need 90% to make sure they are able to get home.

Is your argument that no one using a FCP is a local? Its obvious to me that a proportion are but obviously I can't be definitive how large that proportion is. I was talking to a guy in a Kona recently and he was queuing at an FCP even though he had 65% SOC and was a local and didn't have any long journeys to make - 65% would do him for at least 2 days. He freely admitted the reason he was there was the FCP was free and he didn't have anything else on. Now obviously this doesn't apply to everyone that uses a FCP but....

creedp

creedp wrote: »

Is your argument that no one using a FCP is a local?

No, it is that you have no idea who they are or where they are from or what their driving requirement will be........and that whether or not they live close by is moot. They have as much of a right to use it as anybody else. Charging beyond 90% is still using it, irrespective of how little juice you yourself need.

samih

samih wrote: »

You'd be better off driving the car to a next charger on you route, even a 7.4/22 kW post, as the car would actually charge faster at lower state of charge


It's ok to leave the car for a (quick) lunch but you should keep an eye on the queue while at it and go to reassure the guy waiting behind you that you're not going to hog the charger for hours and disconnect when you have enough charge to reach the destination.

If I had a long journey to make in the morning, and the choice was to either:
a) spend 45mins charging to 85% tonight and stop somewhere for 30 mins en route or
b) spend 2 hrs charging to 100% tonight and not have to stop the next morning...


....I know which one I'd be picking all day.


You might say that's a misuse of the charger and I'm hogging it or whatever, and I should stop on the way to my destination. I disagree and say that your lack of charge is of no concern to me and you should have stopped on the way down.


I fully agree with your second point.

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

If I had a long journey to make in the morning, and the choice was to either:
a) spend 45mins charging to 85% tonight and stop somewhere for 30 mins en route or
b) spend 2 hrs charging to 100% tonight and not have to stop the next morning...


....I know which one I'd be picking all day.


You might say that's a misuse of the charger and I'm hogging it or whatever, and I should stop on the way to my destination. I disagree and say that your lack of charge is of no concern to me and you should have stopped on the way down.


I fully agree with your second point.

Why spend 2 hours at a charger when you can do it in 1 hour?

kceire

kceire wrote: »

Why spend 2 hours at a charger when you can do it in 1 hour?

2 hrs on a Sunday night in your home town when you can nip home and watch telly..........versus 1 hr sitting in a service station on the M6 on a Monday mid-morning.

KCross

This thread is getting tiring!
Its a circular argument that will never come to a conclusion.

Shifty is right in that they are entitled to use it, simply because thats what eCars allow. morals etc dont come into it.

All other arguments are moot really as you are reaching out to peoples goodwill/kindness and thats just a hit and miss strategy. If a local wants to use it to spare themselves a few stingy euro on their home bill to everyone else's detriment you cant stop them and no point in complaining about it really... its eCars fault for letting it happen and they will say its the regulators fault for not allowing them to have charging for charging a few years ago.

6 months time and it will all be resolved and we'll be here complaining its too expensive! :pac:

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

2 hrs on a Sunday night in your home town when you can nip home and watch telly..........versus 1 hr sitting in a service station on the M6 on a Monday mid-morning.

Even better: Don't use the local charger at all but drive home, plug in and then in the morning use the mains to cool/heat the car before the journey.