Is Limerick City Centre going backwards?

bigpink

3 or 4 units now closed on Cruises street the food stalls at Penney’s half gone and the other ones only open part time

The Milk Market getting a 24 hour shop/pizza place
Opera Centre no work done
Is the city going backwards?

Poxyshamrock

bigpink wrote: »

3 or 4 units now closed on Cruises street the food stalls at Penney’s half gone and the other ones only open part time

The Milk Market getting a 24 hour shop/pizza place
Opera Centre no work done
Is the city going backwards?

That’s progress if you ask me!

But to answer your question, yes to an extent but the city is certainly stagnant. Has been for a very long time. I’ve always said that there’s too much talk and not enough action. For me, it was when Tiger opening on Cruises Street was hailed as Cruises Street’s renaissance that I realised there is way too much sugar coating on development in the city.
I actually think it’s forced us to rest on our laurels for too long and has been ultimately harmful to the city.

bigpink

Ok maybe saying backwards is a bit strong but definitely stagant

Bowlardo

The death of the high street is coming as everyone of us Mongs continue to use amazon.
Absolute idiocy money going out of the country

Mc Love

bigpink wrote: »

3 or 4 units now closed on Cruises street the food stalls at Penney’s half gone and the other ones only open part time

The Milk Market getting a 24 hour shop/pizza place
Opera Centre no work done
Is the city going backwards?

Jesus lighten up, between you and StabCity, this place is as depressing if not moreso than Cruises St. The death knell for Cruises was when Bewleys closed.

You have to open your eyes a bit more. The Gardens project is just after finishing, the planning for the Opera Center has been submitted. Only 4 units closed on Cruises St? Didnt they open a Jack Jones on Cruises st not so long ago. There's a shelflife on some shops etc.

The Milk Market is great at the weekend.

No the city is not going backwards, its maybe stalled a little but at least there are efforts to move it forward, however slow they might be

geotrig

Mc Love wrote: »

The death knell for Cruises was when Bewleys closed.

I'd nearly agree with this .it was a great location for a cafe with good usage for the most part of the space.

bigpink

Hanging Gardens great but where will all these young professionals live?
The Milk Market could be great it’s very over rated and now a tacky 24 hour is opening
Cork at least is building up

bigpink

Well we have another Starbucks literally across the street from Cruises street now

Poxyshamrock

Hanging Gardens is now complete and hasn’t been fully let. That itself is evidence that there’s a problem. We can’t even fill the one major development the city has had in recent years. It should have been let half way through construction.

That will never entice private developers whose prime focus is profit.

The Specialist

Bowlardo wrote: »

The death of the high street is coming as everyone of us Mongs continue to use amazon.
Absolute idiocy money going out of the country

I always laugh when I read comments like this - people have finite money to spend and if an item is double the price in a shop compared to online, they'd have to be a ****ing idiot to purchase it out of some misguided sense of loyalty to retailers in their locality. The times and landscape of retail are changing, and it's on the shops to adapt - not the consumer.

tototoe

Mc Love wrote: »

You have to open your eyes a bit more. The Gardens project is just after finishing, the planning for the Opera Center has been submitted. Only 4 units closed on Cruises St? Didnt they open a Jack Jones on Cruises st not so long ago. There's a shelflife on some shops etc.

The Milk Market is great at the weekend.

The milk market is great for about 6 hours on Saturday morning....and it is great ( with the small exception of the stalls outside the market itself selling tat). The area itself is awful imo,. Surface car parks, Printmakers falling down, the shell of a development beside Mollys, empty instore etc. The Market Quarter signs look ridiculous.

The retail offering in the city centre is poor, no doubt about it. That Jack and Jones shop has been empty every time I have passed it so hopefully it works. Cruises Street is awful though and is not getting any better. So many "new" empty units on Henry Street as well, Laura Ashley gone, units across from La Cucina all empty. The old Bank of Scotland also empty for literally years.


People need to be a small bit real about the state of the city center.

Vanquished

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Hanging Gardens is now complete and hasn’t been fully let. That itself is evidence that there’s a problem. We can’t even fill the one major development the city has had in recent years. It should have been let half way through constructiont.

On top of that, the only space let is to a company already located on Henry Street who will be moving from the adjacent block. Leaving another empty unit behind them.

And yes before anybody says it I'm well aware that Nordic Aviation Capital are expanding. It doesn't change the fact however that despite the Council spoofing about a "world class, iconic building", they've certainly struggled to fill it.

mdmix

i think it speaks volumes that we are having this discussion in the middle of a boom, when the next recession kicks in the problem will certainly worsen. the city center is simply not viable due to the the lack of population (in the city center). if you take upstairs units into account, more than half the city is vacant IMO.

the opera center will certainly help improve the city center, as more footfall during the day may give the immediate area a boost, potentially enabling the milk market to open extra days - but it wont help retail or the night economy. its important to note that the opera center is at least 5 years away from being fully delivered, and once delivered over half the occupants (500 from revenue & 1000+ from UL) will be moving from elsewhere. it could be years again before new tenants move in.

its also worth noting that unlike, Dublin, Cork, Belfast, Galway and Waterford there is no advanced plans for any meaningful residential increase in the city center. there is the vague promise of the Georgian living city initiative, with scant details and no start date, probably after the opera center is finished. IMO, the city center will be in the same position 10 years from now

Stab*City

Mc Love wrote: »

Jesus lighten up, between you and StabCity, this place is as depressing if not moreso than Cruises St. The death knell for Cruises was when Bewleys closed.

You have to open your eyes a bit more. The Gardens project is just after finishing, the planning for the Opera Center has been submitted. Only 4 units closed on Cruises St? Didnt they open a Jack Jones on Cruises st not so long ago. There's a shelflife on some shops etc.

The Milk Market is great at the weekend.

No the city is not going backwards, its maybe stalled a little but at least there are efforts to move it forward, however slow they might be

Why because i don't see the point of a rich mans trophy cabinet on o@connell st?? McLove I could peel off my eyelids and still be massively underwhelmed by the "highlights" you just mentioned. 15 years we have been waiting for this holy grail of an opera centre. Milk market as mentioned above is great for a few hours at the weekend if your into knitted jumpers and specialist coffee if not once you've had a bit of grub and a chat it gets boring very fast.

And for balance, things I think improve or would improve the city:

A tram.
A large scale music festival (probably the only town without one at this stage)
An actual opera house not a plan.
Train station
Cycle lanes
Some public sports facilities
A cinema (duh!)
A large live music venue

Cookiemunster

Stab*City wrote: »

And for balance, things I think improve or would improve the city:

A tram - We don't have the population density to make one viable

A large scale music festival (probably the only town without one at this stage) - Agree

An actual opera house not a plan. - We don't have a plan for an Opera house.

Train station - Not sure how you've missed Colbert station all these years.....

Cycle lanes - Could be better, but they do exist and more are planned.

Some public sports facilities - Such as? Where do you propose to put them within the city?

A cinema (duh!) - Not really vialble with three multiplex on the edge of the city.

A large live music venue - Agree. The Cleeves site would be ideal. [/QUOTE]

chicorytip

Mc Love wrote:

The Milk Market is great at the weekend.

bigpink wrote:

Hanging Gardens great but where will all these young professionals live? The Milk Market could be great it’s very over rated and now a tacky 24 hour is opening Cork at least is building up

The Milk Market area becomes a very different place once the sun goes down - usually full of loud, aggressive drunks spilling out from the proliferation of pubs and nightclubs in the area.

bigpink

There’s hardly any seating down in the Milk Market to sit down and enjoy your food

Mc Love

Stab*City wrote: »

A large scale music festival (probably the only town without one at this stage)

I take it you havent seen the Docklands music festival taking place, but then some on here saying we shouldnt have one because its not a unique idea to Limerick

turbbo

The Specialist wrote: »

I always laugh when I read comments like this - people have finite money to spend and if an item is double the price in a shop compared to online, they'd have to be a ****ing idiot to purchase it out of some misguided sense of loyalty to retailers in their locality. The times and landscape of retail are changing, and it's on the shops to adapt - not the consumer.

The shops are adapting - they're closing.

The Specialist

turbbo wrote: »

The shops are adapting - they're closing.

Tough ****, adapt or die.

Stab*City

Cookiemunster wrote: »

A tram - We don't have the population density to make one viable But we do have for 50000 buses?

A large scale music festival (probably the only town without one at this stage) - Agree

An actual opera house not a plan. - We don't have a plan for an Opera house. :rolleyes:

Train station - Not sure how you've missed Colbert station all these years..... I didn't smart ar*e i said things that have improved or would improve. Not sure how you missed that.

Cycle lanes - Could be better, but they do exist and more are planned. Really?

Some public sports facilities - Such as? Where do you propose to put them within the city? Basketball Courts, Soccer courts, climbing walls another skate park etc etc... Across the other side of the river? Inside of the parks? Not hard to think of a few spots if you try. Have a look at the clare st park its crying out for something besides the half arsed playground that in there. You dont work for the council by any chance do you?

A cinema (duh!) - Not really vialble with three multiplex on the edge of the city. Fair enough.

A large live music venue - Agree. The Cleeves site would be ideal. Yes i was there to scope it out for an event. Its a decent spot.

[/QUOTE]

bigpink

Yeah the Docklands sounds promising is it going to an outdoor event or a Tent?Capacity?Think under 5000 you need less planning

turbbo

The Specialist wrote: »

Tough ****, adapt or die.

Yeah it's great to see shops closing and jobs being lost to other countries.
Well done you!

mdmix

Stab*City wrote: »

And for balance, things I think improve or would improve the city:

A tram.
A large scale music festival (probably the only town without one at this stage)
An actual opera house not a plan.
Train station
Cycle lanes
Some public sports facilities
A cinema (duh!)
A large live music venue

none of this can happen unless there is an increased city population to merit these improvements

Cookiemunster

turbbo wrote: »

Yeah it's great to see shops closing and jobs being lost to other countries.
Well done you!

People are going to vote with their pockets. If you can get something online. for 20-30% less including delivery, then you're going to buy online.

Quite simply The Specialist is correct, shops need to adapt to survive. An example is that supermarkets have blown corners shops away. The only reason the ones that are still around survive now because they've adapted and now provide hot food and coffee.

tototoe

Just an addition to my earlier post, Cork has also lost Laura Ashley to the burbs..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/property/fashion-retailer-laura-ashley-trades-cork-city-for-suburbs-913655.html?fbclid=IwAR0c0ERoKLLPnmJFKG7QaOeMTkGbtTtYOU7bpvWkYgMZcosVMqSszg4ETNQ

geotrig

Cookiemunster wrote: »

A cinema (duh!) - Not really vialble with three multiplex on the edge of the city.

[/I]

[/QUOTE]

It could and should be if done right ,just because there is 3 outside the city doesn't mean one cant survive in town. iiii want an imax goddamit ! Or something that is shows more " older " films

bigpink

Well a good idea would be to give a break for independent retailers or niche products but look at them allowing another Starbucks

Cookiemunster

bigpink wrote: »

Well a good idea would be to give a break for independent retailers or niche products but look at them allowing another Starbucks

Another Starbucks isn't against planning regulations, so I don't see what could be done about it.

Eire-Dearg

mdmix wrote: »

none of this can happen unless there is an increased city population to merit these improvements

Literally this. Between online shopping and the retail/cinema/entertainment services on the outskirts, there's absolutely no reason to enter the city. Not many people want to even live in the city, regardless of where they work and I'm not convinced any amount of retail or social improvements will change this.

A tram for Limerick is a novel idea but it'd be virtually empty outside of commuter hours in the morning and evening.

The Specialist

turbbo wrote: »

Yeah it's great to see shops closing and jobs being lost to other countries.
Well done you!

Nobody likes to see people losing jobs but at the end of the day, that's not a problem for consumers to be concerned about. Shops can either adapt and try to bring their prices in-line with what's available online, or they can continue as is and will eventually close. They got away long enough with fleecing customers so it's an ironic kind of karma coming back to bite them now.

Cookiemunster

It could and should be if done right ,just because there is 3 outside the city doesn't mean one cant survive in town. iiii want an imax goddamit ! Or something that is shows more " older " films[/QUOTE]


I don't totally disagree with what you're saying. I think there is a market for it, I just don't think there's a big enough market to make it viable.

Mc Love

bigpink wrote: »

Well a good idea would be to give a break for independent retailers or niche products but look at them allowing another Starbucks

Hang on - look at the other income from getting Starbucks setup there. They're using a Limerick company to upgrade the windows (Walsh Windows), and I'm not sure about the outfitting but that could be a Limerick based company too. How about the income earned by Limerick based people working there? Its not all negative.

geotrig

bigpink wrote: »

Well a good idea would be to give a break for independent retailers or niche products but look at them allowing another Starbucks

I understand the sentiment behind that statement but if you have a good business or product and not want to rip of joe soap you can do well .... on your above so you are saying that an independent kebab shop should be given breaks because you talk about retail but hint at another "starbucks" as an issue .

tbh as laughable as the fashion quarter ,is it initiatives like that should be brought in to shape the city , you could then offer small units (alot of georgian units perfect for this sort of thing )at reduced rates to businesses while offereing larger better units to big retailers ... and create other quarters as you go along , we pretty much have a cafe quarter , Its an "ideal scenario" and obvsiously would have hiccups but something needs to change long term.

Stab*City

Mc Love wrote: »

I take it you havent seen the Docklands music festival taking place, but then some on here saying we shouldnt have one because its not a unique idea to Limerick

Some would say that's not a festival at all. Jenny Greene and Madness? Probably the two cheapest bookings Dolan could get.

sioda

bigpink wrote: »

There’s hardly any seating down in the Milk Market to sit down and enjoy your food

Good bit upstairs

geotrig

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It could and should be if done right ,just because there is 3 outside the city doesn't mean one cant survive in town. iiii want an imax goddamit ! Or something that is shows more " older " films

I don't totally disagree with what you're saying. I think there is a market for it, I just don't think there's a big enough market to make it viable.[/QUOTE]

Town was quiet busy last week end there is a big enough market for nearly anything in the city if we go about things rightly. but its missing an awful lot for somethings to happen.
some proper street scaping prettying up our streets in general we aren't the worst but some areas are just badly designed spaces .We have a center that isnt working anymore. and a very scattered setup in general if you ask me. i would like a large retail centre of some sort that is well designed and though out , designate certain streets for certain type busineses rethink some other area ..... and an imax goddamit....

Phileas Frog

geotrig wrote: »

It could and should be if done right ,just because there is 3 outside the city doesn't mean one cant survive in town. iiii want an imax goddamit ! Or something that is shows more " older " films

There used to be cinemas in town. They didn't survive. Such is life.

geotrig

Phileas Frog wrote: »

There used to be cinemas in town. They didn't survive. Such is life.

There used to be shops in town, they didn't survive such is life ! :rolleyes: that can be appiled to anything that has been in the city

I know there was cinemas in town, badly run cinemas at that, see my comment on "if done right " the carlton had more rats than patrons at some stages ...it was old grotty and run down /derelict near the end. new savoy was a terrible design ,theatre royal and central ran were tired and old and where in bad need of refurbs.

im not saying just plonk one in ,it wont work like that . it needs to be thought out and planned well. have something going for it to draw away from the competition.

Phileas Frog

geotrig wrote: »

There used to be shops in town, they didn't survive such is life ! :rolleyes: that can be appiled to anything that has been in the city

I know there was cinemas in town, badly run cinemas at that, see my comment on "if done right " the carlton had more rats than patrons at some stages ...it was old grotty and run down /derelict near the end. new savoy was a terrible design ,theatre royal and central ran were tired and old and where in bad need of refurbs.

im not saying just plonk one in ,it wont work like that . it needs to be thought out and planned well. have something going for it to draw away from the competition.

And who should pay for this fantasy of yours?

hightower1

The city center needs to be looked at as one whole business, and as a business... what does the city center offer me (a consumer) as a unique selling point that I cannot find in any suburban shopping center locations? Brown Thomas and Debenhams are the main two that spring to mind but these simply aren't enough to turn the tide.



*Note: I understand that commercial entities aren't the end all and be all of a city center but lets face it, people aren't visiting the Crescent shopping center for the cultural experiences.

tototoe

TBH the life span of cinemas must be limited. With Netflix and the like, and Apple etc hopping on that train...the days of seeing a movie ina cinema must be numbered. The l;ast thing I went to see was Dunkirk and that was for the big screen affect, but those films are few and far between.

Eire-Dearg

Cinema will always have its market, date nights etc, but two fine cinemas on the outskirts of the city makes any reason to have one in the city absolutely obsolete.

Unless it was a smaller type venue that hosted special movie nights, independent films etc and attracted that type of culture.

Phileas Frog

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

two fine cinemas on the outskirts of the city

Which of the three is not as fine as the other two? :pac:

BIGT4464

bigpink wrote: »

Hanging Gardens great but where will all these young professionals live?
The Milk Market could be great it’s very over rated and now a tacky 24 hour is opening
Cork at least is building up

They should do mid/high density residential on Cleeves site but they are not. Its Mungret College instead, ya great another suburb full of semi D's.

Eire-Dearg

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Which of the three is not as fine as the other two? :pac:

Ha, I'm on the Odeon side of the city so that third one always escapes my mind!

James Bond Junior

How many of you genuinely choose to go to town to shop versus the crescent and so on? The only reason I go into the crescent is to use the Ulster Bank, otherwise I haven't gone in ages. A willingness to use the City Centre over shopping centres needs to be there and if people aren't actively going into town, how is it to survive?

Large shopping complexes on the periphery have undoubtedly put strain on the city centre. However, it's all about the bottom line when I travel to Limerick. Ease of access, stores clustered in one setting & free parking are attractive, and the Crescent fits the bill.

Eire-Dearg

James Bond Junior wrote: »

How many of you genuinely choose to go to town to shop versus the crescent and so on? The only reason I go into the crescent is to use the Ulster Bank, otherwise I haven't gone in ages. A willingness to use the City Centre over shopping centres needs to be there and if people aren't actively going into town, how is it to survive?

Speaking from a purely male perspective :pac: I don't need Brown Thomas, I don't need Debenhams, I can get all my casual/work clothes in the Crescent and I'm in and out on the motorway in minutes. Can also get bits and pieces in Childers Road or in the Parkway Retail Park. Easons going into the Crescent was also huge for me as a consumer. I have zero reason to visit the city, unless I was going out or going to restaurant (which is rare).

chicorytip

Eire-Dearg wrote:

Unless it was a smaller type venue that hosted special movie nights, independent films etc and attracted that type of culture.

There is the Limerick Cinema Club who hold screenings, I think monthly, in the Limetree Theatre of films of the type you describe but there simply is not the level of interest here that would make opening a specialist cinema commercially viable. This also applies in Dublin. The Screen Cinema was a wonderful venue but was closed down eventually. Multiplexes seem to be the only ones making profits from ticket sales any more.

Phileas Frog

BIGT4464 wrote: »

They should do mid/high density residential on Cleeves site but they are not. Its Mungret College instead, ya great another suburb full of semi D's.

People are having conniptions about knocking down Curraghgower House which is derelict, can you imagine the furore there'd be if you mention knocking down Cleeves?