Mass collection

jpc1

Currently doing a paper on Usability Study of Contactless payments in the church.

Just wondering can anyone help me out with confirming the below.

1st collection - Is a general collection for the maintenance of the church bills etc.

2nd collection - Usually for something more specific, fixing a statue hole in the roof.

Are these covered under the white envelopes everyone gets in the door or are they for something else. Just curious if there was a contactless payment would the system need to know what you are tapping for.

Grayson

look who hasn't gone to mass in a long time. You naughty boy

jpc1

randomly enough ive been twice since xmas but down the country they only ever have one collection but I remember in Dublin they always had two. Because you can imagine at the start of the mass you've gone up and done a wireless payment of 5 euro and then they say well we need a few bob for the bus to bring the u15s to the feile or some nonsense. I don't want to have go back up to the machine.

kneemos

They had a collection at the last funeral I was at,struck me as a bit off.
Dunno if it's the norm,never darken the door of the place if possible.

thunderdog

Follow up with the usability of contactless payments for buskers. Money must be down for buskers (on grafton st etc) over the last numbers of years with fewer people carrying cash/coins around

pleas advice

A rabbi, a priest, and a minister are discussing what they do with donations to their respective religious organizations.
The minister says that he draws a circle on the floor, throws the money up in the air, and whatever lands in the circle, he gives to God, and whatever lands outside the circle, he keeps.
The priest uses a similar method. He draws the circle, but whatever lands outside the circle, he gives to God, and whatever lands inside, he keeps.
The rabbi has a slightly different method of dividing the money. He throws all the money up in the air. Whatever God wants, he keeps...

freshpopcorn

kneemos wrote: »

They had a collection at the last funeral I was at,struck me as a bit off.
Dunno if it's the norm,never darken the door of the place if possible.

Was it a Sunday mass?

kneemos

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Was it a Sunday mass?

Might have been. Don't remember tbh.

freshpopcorn

kneemos wrote: »

Might have been. Don't remember tbh.

It's the only day I can really think of. The church could go for weeks without a collection if they got a lot of Sinday funerals if they didn't collect.

keano_afc

There's a Christianity forum....

padd b1975

kneemos wrote: »

Might have been. Don't remember tbh.

Fr. Damo over here.

4068ac1elhodqr

Always seems to be problems with roofs, either a hole in the roof, or money needed for a entire new roof.
Suggest the get a different roofing contractor, or coat/wrap it in a nanotech waterproofing material.

AndrewJRenko

Will the contactless system allow me to grab a few quid back for myself like the baskets?

branie2

padd b1975 wrote: »

Fr. Damo over here.

I'm having dinner here

bazz26

Surely this is an ecumenical matter?

jpc1

a lot of buskers are now using QR Codes. next time you are walking through grafton street keep an eye out.

elperello

jpc1 wrote: »

Currently doing a paper on Usability Study of Contactless payments in the church.

Just wondering can anyone help me out with confirming the below.

1st collection - Is a general collection for the maintenance of the church bills etc.

2nd collection - Usually for something more specific, fixing a statue hole in the roof.

Are these covered under the white envelopes everyone gets in the door or are they for something else. Just curious if there was a contactless payment would the system need to know what you are tapping for.

You are "doing a paper" and you think the right way to research it is to go on After Hours and question a bunch of random posters?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

jpc1 wrote: »

Currently doing a paper on Usability Study of Contactless payments in the church.

Just wondering can anyone help me out with confirming the below.

1st collection - Is a general collection for the maintenance of the church bills etc.

2nd collection - Usually for something more specific, fixing a statue hole in the roof.

Are these covered under the white envelopes everyone gets in the door or are they for something else. Just curious if there was a contactless payment would the system need to know what you are tapping for.

You're doing a paper on something you know little or nothing about. :rolleyes:


Firstly, there aren't always two collections - indeed in most parishes a second collection only happens about five times a year.
Secondly, the white envelope reference is comical - colours vary from church to church. You really need to research more.

The weekly collection covers running costs, including debt repayments, of the parish .

Second, or special collections, are for benevolent funds, missions, emmigrants, etc. Some churches may have special collections for church renovations . These may or may not be by way of a dedicated (different coloured) envelope.

Then there's the Priest's Dues which may be a monthly or quarterly donation by way of a mass collection or paid directly from home.

It all varies considerably around the country.



And of course any contactless payment system would need to know what the payment is for.

freshpopcorn

We always have two collections.
One is sort of a general collection.
The second can be for various issues from retired priest to another matter.
On the last weekend of every month there is a third collection for parish buildings.

Pherekydes

They're always collecting for the priest. Why can't he get a proper job?

mikemac2

jpc1 wrote: »

Currently doing a paper on Usability Study of Contactless payments in the church.

And yet we have several religious forums on boards

You are here to stir up a reaction

Pinch Flat

OP say ten Hail Marys and five our fathers. Should be ashamed of yourself.

Viz top tip is the day:

Avoid having cash to put in the collection, by not going to church.

touts

Churches are run by parish councils who in my experience are made up of the most technically illiterate, GDPR naive people in the parish who generally have to get their dodgy, still living at home son, to sort out any tech issues the church has be it "the microphone we only just got in 1982 stopped working" or "do you think we should send the parish news into that face-space thing".

**** all chance I'm giving them my credit card details.

Mrs OBumble

touts wrote: »

**** all chance I'm giving them my credit card details.

You've got a solid grip on how card payments work, so.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Said it before, saying it again: church tax.

You pay a few extra percentage points/euro in tax and it's given to the church you nominate, unless you declare yourself as an atheist.

About as contactless as you can get.

kneemos

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Said it before, saying it again: church tax.

You pay a few extra percentage points/euro in tax and it's given to the church you nominate, unless you declare yourself as an atheist.

About as contactless as you can get.

User pays is a simpler idea.

The Rooster

In Dublin, there are always two collections.

One is for the church you are in
The other is called the ‘share’ collection. I’m sure a google will tell what that is. I never listened attentively enough. Presume it goes to the poorer Dublin parishes, but that’s a guess

biko

I believe in face to face donations, not contact-less

Berserker

Luca Proud Vignette wrote: »

Always seems to be problems with roofs, either a hole in the roof, or money needed for a entire new roof.
Suggest the get a different roofing contractor, or coat/wrap it in a nanotech waterproofing material.

The buildings are old, so issues with roofs etc are to be expected. Those churches are probably over a hundred years old.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Said it before, saying it again: church tax.

You pay a few extra percentage points/euro in tax and it's given to the church you nominate, unless you declare yourself as an atheist.

About as contactless as you can get.

Was in Germany last weekend and they have a church tax here. I'd be happy to give a percentage of my income to the CoI.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kneemos wrote: »

User pays is a simpler idea.

Technically the same thing. As long as it comes with the [opt-out.

YFlyer

elperello wrote: »

You are "doing a paper" and you think the right way to research it is to go on After Hours and question a bunch of random posters?

College mag.

Hotblack Desiato

So, which of the collections is for the Paedophile Legal Defence Fund and Pension Pot?

RobbingBandit

Len said no contactless can't have another the money was just resting in my account debacle.

And remember don't call him Len or he won't tell you about his trip to Rooooommmme

Snow Garden

Will the contactless payment scheme conform to GDPR guidelines?

The folks in Clare had GDPR problems when donating their sins....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/anger-over-pupils-sins-listed-on-artwork-at-mass-claims-it-breaches-gdpr-and-seal-of-confession-37939890.html

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Said it before, saying it again: church tax.

You pay a few extra percentage points/euro in tax and it's given to the church you nominate, unless you declare yourself as an atheist.

About as contactless as you can get.

Nothing but a ploy by atheists to force down the number of people declaring as Catholic in the country to suit their agenda by using financial pressure.

People contribute what they feel they can or want to, this might change from week to week in many cases. Many use the envelopes and other just put in their loose change especially those who go to mass in different places regularly. Also some give nothing and are entitled to do so while still being officially declared as a catholic as are those who don’t go to mass but still see themselves as catholic.

Something like the contactless system would be great as it’s less and less change we have in our pockets all the time. Even something like a Revolut account for the church which you could send money instantly would be good. An easy and very fast way to set your contribution would be the trickiest part to get right with the contactless idea.

As for the second collection thing, it appears to be far more prevalent in cities it’s almost unheard of to have a second collection in rural parishes but even in cities from my experience second collections are not every week.

Hotblack Desiato

Craig Ancient Screenplay wrote: »

Nothing but a ploy by atheists to force down the number of people declaring as Catholic in the country to suit their agenda by using financial pressure.

Uhuh. :rolleyes:

Whereas you're happy to have large numbers of people who are, in fact, not religious at all, ticking a box simply because they were baptised into it

Gotta hang on to all those catholic schools, even if most parents of schoolgoing children no longer want them.

Remember in the same sex marriage referendum when somebody from Iona was on RTE saying that Ireland was a catholic country and citing the census as justification? How did that and last year work out for them?

Face it, this country has changed and changed greatly. But our education system has barely even begun to reflect this change.

Snow Garden

In 2002 the abuse redress agreement capped the financial liability of the 18 religious congregations affected at €127 million. The state agreed to indemnify the religious orders, and to pay any awards made above that amount. FF's deal effectively pushed the vast majority of the abuse redress costs to the taxpayer. The church have been insuring and safeguarding their assets ever since. I believe €21 million is still outstanding on the 2002 sweet deal.
There is also the non payment of the 'voluntary' 2009 deal after the shocking Ryan report. The Roman church's repeated failure to hand over money and property promised is an insult to the people abused for decades.

Knowing this, I do not understand how anyone with a conscience or any empathy can donate any more money to the Roman church. They must be very gullible or very stupid.

SoundsRight

Many of these Churches are are the beating heart of the community. The state should be footing the bill for any upkeep.

Pherekydes

SoundsRight wrote: »

Many of these Churches are are the beating heart of the community. The state should be footing the bill for any upkeep.

Most are pretty empty for long stretches of the day for "beating hearts". Would you say the same for a busy mosque in a community?

Anyway, we have no state religion. See the constitution.

Electric Sheep

Craig Ancient Screenplay wrote: »

Nothing but a ploy by atheists to force down the number of people declaring as Catholic in the country to suit their agenda by using financial pressure.

People contribute what they feel they can or want to, this might change from week to week in many cases. Many use the envelopes and other just put in their loose change especially those who go to mass in different places regularly. Also some give nothing and are entitled to do so while still being officially declared as a catholic as are those who don’t go to mass but still see themselves as catholic.

Something like the contactless system would be great as it’s less and less change we have in our pockets all the time. Even something like a Revolut account for the church which you could send money instantly would be good. An easy and very fast way to set your contribution would be the trickiest part to get right with the contactless idea.

As for the second collection thing, it appears to be far more prevalent in cities it’s almost unheard of to have a second collection in rural parishes but even in cities from my experience second collections are not every week.

Do you feel that those collections are like tipping the priest?

Electric Sheep

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Do you feel that those collections are like tipping the priest?

Only a handful of collections throughout the year are for the priest.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Craig Ancient Screenplay wrote: »

Nothing but a ploy by atheists to force down the number of people declaring as Catholic in the country to suit their agenda by using financial pressure.

People contribute what they feel they can or want to, this might change from week to week in many cases. Many use the envelopes and other just put in their loose change especially those who go to mass in different places regularly. Also some give nothing and are entitled to do so while still being officially declared as a catholic as are those who don’t go to mass but still see themselves as catholic.

Something like the contactless system would be great as it’s less and less change we have in our pockets all the time. Even something like a Revolut account for the church which you could send money instantly would be good. An easy and very fast way to set your contribution would be the trickiest part to get right with the contactless idea.

As for the second collection thing, it appears to be far more prevalent in cities it’s almost unheard of to have a second collection in rural parishes but even in cities from my experience second collections are not every week.

Yes, athiests are scheming and tenting their hands, Mr. Burns-style, working out ways to get the official numbers of Catholics in the country down. :rolleyes:

I don’t think an opt-out church tax needs to happen but with mass attendance falling, surely the people that do go to Mass will have to start ponying up more money at some point.

John_Rambo

Craig Ancient Screenplay wrote: »

Only a handful of collections throughout the year are for the priest.

That's a hefty tip, fair play to you.

SoundsRight

Pherekydes wrote: »

Most are pretty empty for long stretches of the day for "beating hearts". Would you say the same for a busy mosque in a community?

Anyway, we have no state religion. See the constitution.

Article 6.1 " All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people..."

We are a Chistian nation. All major life events revolve around the Church. It's daft to pretend otherwise.

Berserker

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So, which of the collections is for the Paedophile Legal Defence Fund and Pension Pot?

Now that's edgy. Want to emphasize that I'm not RC before proceeding with the responses below.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Whereas you're happy to have large numbers of people who are, in fact, not religious at all, ticking a box simply because they were baptised into it

Nobody puts a gun to their head and forces then to tick it. The same people also attend baptisms, confirmations and marriages. The are RCs. Pretty sure you are not obliged to attend church every Sunday to be a RC. The church won't turn you away if you are, I believe.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Gotta hang on to all those catholic schools, even if most parents of schoolgoing children no longer want them.

Need to try and keep hold of those schools. Barely enough to meet the needs of the population as is. Imagine where the country would be without those RC schools.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Remember in the same sex marriage referendum when somebody from Iona was on RTE saying that Ireland was a catholic country and citing the census as justification?

It's a pretty good data source to use. The SSM and abortion referenda were passed convincingly with 65% of the vote. Ireland said that its a country that wants SSM and abortion. ~80% of the country identified as RC in the last census. That's a huge majority, you have to admit. Hard to say that Ireland isn't a RC country with a stat like that.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Face it, this country has changed and changed greatly. But our education system has barely even begun to reflect this change.

In what way, exactly? If people want it to change, they'll have to be willing to cough up the cash to change it. They government hasn't got the financial resources to change it at the moment. They've need to help that the RCC gives them.

Hotblack Desiato

I'm not going to reply to most of that waffle, but the last bit -

Exactly what "help" does any church give the State in regard to education?

The state pays to run the schools, pays the teachers, and in most cases paid to build the schools too.

end of the road

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I'm not going to reply to most of that waffle, but the last bit -

i suspect that the reason you aren't going to respond to it is that you know he is right. that what he said is in fact not waffle.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Exactly what "help" does any church give the State in regard to education?

The state pays to run the schools, pays the teachers, and in most cases paid to build the schools too.

that's all the state ultimately does. pay the money. after that, the church or whatever organisation which runs each individual school is responsible for everything else, because the state does not want the responsibility.

Snow Garden

end of the road wrote: »

that's all the state ultimately does. pay the money. after that, the church or whatever organisation which runs each individual school is responsible for everything else, because the state does not want the responsibility.

For example? I am sure the Dept of Education are all ears.

As far as I can see, any church involvement in schools is an attempt to keep itself relevant and in the dark ages. The next generation will have the courage to exclude their nonsense from schools.

Snow Garden

SoundsRight wrote: »

Article 6.1 " All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people..."

We are a Chistian nation. All major life events revolve around the Church. It's daft to pretend otherwise.

You must have a very boring life.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Berserker wrote: »

Now that's edgy. Want to emphasize that I'm not RC before proceeding with the responses below.



Nobody puts a gun to their head and forces then to tick it. The same people also attend baptisms, confirmations and marriages. The are RCs. Pretty sure you are not obliged to attend church every Sunday to be a RC. The church won't turn you away if you are, I believe.



Need to try and keep hold of those schools. Barely enough to meet the needs of the population as is. Imagine where the country would be without those RC schools.



It's a pretty good data source to use. The SSM and abortion referenda were passed convincingly with 65% of the vote. Ireland said that its a country that wants SSM and abortion. ~80% of the country identified as RC in the last census. That's a huge majority, you have to admit. Hard to say that Ireland isn't a RC country with a stat like that.



In what way, exactly? If people want it to change, they'll have to be willing to cough up the cash to change it. They government hasn't got the financial resources to change it at the moment. They've need to help that the RCC gives them.

Usually one person fills out the form. I’ve been put down as Catholic on census forms without my permission. I now make it my business to make sure I’m not put down as Catholic. But many people wouldn’t think about it and next thing you know, Mammy has ticked the Catholic box for them. In our house one census, the house was marked down as 100% Catholic when it was only 50%. And of course Catholic parents are going to put their children and teenagers down as Catholic even if they have burgeoning doubts. And some people do think that if they were baptised into Catholicism that they should check that box. The census is a very crude measure.

I think it was in the 70s percentage-wise at the last census. That’s quite a drop from twenty years ago. I expect the figure to be lower again at the next census.