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Management company demanding 13k

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  • 19-03-2019 10:13pm
    #1
    todolist
    Registered Users Posts: 811 ✭✭✭


    Our management company are looking for 13 thousand euro to fix defects in our complex.
    We bought our apartment under the affordable housing scheme from Dublin City Council.
    Are we liable to pay this or should the council pay something.?


«1345

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    #2
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    When did you buy? How old is the complex?


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    #3
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Generally, you are liable to pay any management fees due under the contracts. Affordable housing means the council has organised a discounted purchase price for you to buy the property, with a condition that if you sell within 10 years at a price above what you pay youre liable to a clawback. Beyond that, its hard to see how they could be responsible to pay it.

    Maybe speak to a solicitor to see if there is any recourse for you


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    #4
    todolist
    Registered Users Posts: 811 ✭✭✭todolist


    shenanagans wrote: »
    When did you buy? How old is the complex?
    bought it in 2008.It's 12 years old.


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    #5
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    If it's upgrades due to health & safety policy changes (laws) then it depends on when the changes came in and when you bought. Many complexes are now having to do major work to meet standards and this means large costs on owners. If it impacts on the complex fire cert then it must be done or building cause be closed up.

    Is the work something that should have been done in 2008? Are the council liable.....failure to inspect?

    What work has to be done?


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    #6
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,824 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Insurance?


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    #7
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    Depends on your policy. What does it cover?


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    #8
    todolist
    Registered Users Posts: 811 ✭✭✭todolist


    shenanagans wrote: »
    If it's upgrades due to health & safety policy changes (laws) then it depends on when the changes came in and when you bought. Many complexes are now having to do major work to meet standards and this means large costs on owners. If it impacts on the complex fire cert then it must be done or building cause be closed up.

    Is the work something that should have been done in 2008? Are the council liable.....failure to inspect?

    What work has to be done?
    Fire safety work.It should have been done in 2007.The company that built it went bust so apartment owners are expected to pick up the tab.


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    #9
    todolist
    Registered Users Posts: 811 ✭✭✭todolist


    Seve OB wrote: »
    Insurance?
    I have no insurance.


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    #10
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    Should the council have caught this during inspections? As in they should have made the developer do the work. If they didn't.....are they liable. I would think they may be. Is the developer still active? This is becoming a common issue.

    There was a similar case in Dublin a couple of years ago. The whole complex was closed down while works were done. Can't remember the name of the complex.

    If you paid you're management fees annually, that includes building insurance but it wouldn't cover this issue as it's a failure on the part of the developer/council.


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    #11
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    todolist wrote: »
    I have no insurance.

    If you have no insurance, how can you have a mortgage?

    If there is no mortgage, then surely you can pay the bill?
    I don't see why the taxpayer or the Council should be on the hook for this.


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    #12
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/four-celtic-tiger-developments-that-had-fire-and-safety-issues-1.3366155

    It was Priory Hall.


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    #13
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    todolist wrote: »
    Our management company are looking for 13 thousand euro to fix defects in our complex.
    We bought our apartment under the affordable housing scheme from Dublin City Council.
    Are we liable to pay this or should the council pay something.?


    So you've been there since 2008. Presume you are paying your annual management fees/service charges ?


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    #14
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    If you have no insurance, how can you have a mortgage?

    If there is no mortgage, then surely you can pay the bill?
    I don't see why the taxpayer or the Council should be on the hook for this.

    The Council have to inspect building sites. They should have done periodic inspections and highlighted the failure in regards to fire safety. They often didn't do this....so they possibly have a duty to residents. IMO

    It was their job. If they didn't do it??? The taxpayer as usual will foot the bill. Not one inspector or engineer will be held to account to be sure.


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    #15
    todolist
    Registered Users Posts: 811 ✭✭✭todolist


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    If you have no insurance, how can you have a mortgage?

    If there is no mortgage, then surely you can pay the bill?
    I don't see why the taxpayer or the Council should be on the hook for this.
    The Goverment should have an agency that inspects buildings before they are sold on to suckers like myself.Do you see why they should be liable now?


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    #16
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    todolist wrote: »
    The Goverment should have an agency that inspects buildings before they are sold on to suckers like myself.Do you see why they should be liable now?

    Sucker?

    You got a house at a discount.


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    #17
    todolist
    Registered Users Posts: 811 ✭✭✭todolist


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    Sucker?

    You got a house at a discount.
    so? It's okay to sell crap and you have no comeback because it was affordable?


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    #18
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    What are the management company telling you? Is the developer still trading? Have the mgt company been in contact with council?

    Get onto the affordable housing area that sold you the place and get their view of the situation.

    Once you know their perspective then maybe seek legal advice on where you stand. I'd say the fact that you bought from the council will help you. Maybe they'll foot some or all the bill.


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    #19
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    My question again.


    Are you paying annual management fees to the management company since 2008 ?


    Because if you haven't been I could understand the demand for 13k and how you are mixing up the two.


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    #20
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    STB. wrote: »
    My question again.


    Are you paying annual management fees to the management company since 2008 ?


    Because if you haven't been I could understand the demand for 13k and how you are mixing up the two.

    Poster has already said it fire safety work that should have been done prior to his/her purchase.


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    #21
    Wesser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    Did you have a structural survey done before you bought it.
    What checks did you do before you bought it.
    Are you seriously suggesting that every property bought in the state should be inspected by a governmen t agency to make sure it is up to scratch.
    Or if it just affordable ones bought from the council.


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    #22
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭touts


    todolist wrote: »
    Our management company are looking for 13 thousand euro to fix defects in our complex.
    We bought our apartment under the affordable housing scheme from Dublin City Council.
    Are we liable to pay this or should the council pay something.?

    Tell you what. Why dont we all have a quick whip around here on boards and all chip in to pay the 13k for you. At the end of the day getting the council to pay it for you is effectively the same thing we'll just be cutting out the middleman.

    The taxpayer helped you buy the house. I think that's where our goodwill gesture ends. Time to grow up and stand on your own two feet.


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    #23
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,355 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    shenanagans wrote: »
    The Council have to inspect building sites. They should have done periodic inspections and highlighted the failure in regards to fire safety. They often didn't do this....so they possibly have a duty to residents. IMO

    It was their job. If they didn't do it??? The taxpayer as usual will foot the bill. Not one inspector or engineer will be held to account to be sure.

    The problem is that building control regulations allowed developers to self certify projects. We did not have the rigorous independent building control inspectorate that exists in other countries.

    In other countries a developer could not proceed to the next stage of construction until the current stage had been independently inspected and certified.

    Here the developer could self certify that the project was built according to the plans and we've seen how that has turned out, time and time again.


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    #24
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Poster has already said it fire safety work that should have been done prior to his/her purchase.


    Yes I understand what they have said but they may have misinterpreted the demand if they haven't been paying the annual service charges.


    Fire safety checks may be just the annual ones done by those contracted as a service provider (extinguishers/sensors/alarms etc). The same way some of the contribution goes to lighting, refuse collection etc


    My question stands. This also has a heading of [RENTING]. ?????


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    #25
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,355 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Wesser wrote: »
    Did you have a structural survey done before you bought it.
    What checks did you do before you bought it.
    Are you seriously suggesting that every property bought in the state should be inspected by a governmen t agency to make sure it is up to scratch.
    Or if it just affordable ones bought from the council.
    This is how it is done elsewhere. We've seen the multiple failings of self regulation here. Self regulation is no regulation.


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    #26
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,001 ✭✭✭mad m


    From experience if it’s fire stopping that 13k will increase once opening works are started. Get everything in writing, if you are forking out that kinda money you are entitled to get name of firestopping company, the survey, schedule of works. Copy of certs etc.


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    #27
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    STB. wrote: »
    Yes I understand what they have said but they may have misinterpreted the demand if they haven't been paying the annual service charges.


    Fire safety checks may be just the annual ones done by those contracted as a service provider (extinguishers/sensors/alarms etc). The same way some of the contribution goes to lighting, refuse collection etc


    My question stands. This also has a heading of [RENTING]. ?????

    I don't mean to be smart but read what the poster wrote;

    "Fire safety work.It should have been done in 2007."

    How could they be talking about accumulated management fees from 2007 when they bought in 2008?

    It's work that should have been done at the development stage but wasn't. Roll on 12 years, the fire cert is probably being renewed and the fire officer won't pass it until work has been carried out so the current owners have to pay the costs of work that now needs to be done.


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    #28
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,001 ✭✭✭mad m


    OP,

    How many are living in the apartment complex?


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    #29
    holliehobbie
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭holliehobbie


    You're getting off lightly op. There is a small apartment complex beside me that was built in 1995/6 and they have to pay €18,000 each for the same kinda issues.


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    #30
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    holliehobbie wrote: »
    You're getting off lightly op. There is a small apartment complex beside me that was built in 1995/6 and they have to pay €18,000 each for the same kinda issues.

    This is a fair point. Whatever the estimated cost is today it will probably be 20% higher next year based on my recent experience of a similar situation. If there's a EGM the best scenario is for agreement for residents and get the work done asap before costs go up!


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    #31
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    The fact that it was an affordable property- has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any reasonable fees the Management Company may demand.
    The OP needs to get a copy of his leasehold documents and read them slowly and methodically.
    The fact that the OP doesn't have insurance- only affects his own personal possessions- the building itself and its integrity- will be insured under a block policy. The fact that the building has now been found to be in non-compliance with fire regulations- means- this aspect of its insurance policy will be void.

    Yes- the 13k fee is fair and reasonable (and remarkably low- its far and away the lowest bill for fire remedial works I've heard of). The OP needs to ensure that it includes everything to bring the building up to full compliance- and that the building will be insurable after the works.

    By all means have a solicitor look at the documentation- however, they're unlikely to tell you any different- and will give you another bill for your trouble.

    The bill of works- along with the certificate of non-compliance detailing the actual defects- should by rights be automatically circulated to all Management Company Members in good standing- for their own information and perusal.


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