Bull beef 2019

johnnyw20

What are lads views on bull beef for this year. Have 10 bulls. 5 Hex 3 simx 1 limx and 1 CHX

All 11 month old bulls and just weighted them at 413kg average. Would I be mad to throw them out for a month and get compensating growth and then back in the shed for 120 days ad lib or will I go ahead and castrate

Never done bull beef before so cautious about it and getting them into the factory next August

Muckit

Isn't it a lot of extra work? Keep it simple. Once they are squeezed and go to grass they'll put on the weight themselves.

Are u having a problem getting a lad to squeeze or why u thinking of bull beef?

Bass Reeves

I imagine that the OP looks at it if he leaves as Bulls they will be finished.in 5 months about mid August before prices fall for the Autumn. If be castarate it will be next Spring before they are finished.
OP if you kill in August will they.be just.over 16 months. Over 16 months can be dodgy to move with processors reducing the prices of such bulls at times. At that stage will they kill 380 kgs as bulls. However they will eat 2 ton of ration costing maybe 550 euro and straw as well.

Next spring will they kill much the same weight as Bullocks getting QA and maybe a good grid price but being around 6-7 months longer.

Panch18

Well if you squeeze them and with any kind of a do during the summer these should average 600 kg by the end of the year.

there should be a savage go for that type of animal then. That's assuming you haven't pumped them with meal during the winter.

Keep your costs down I say

charolais0153

Bit old for sueezing. Should have been done six months ago by right

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

Bass Reeves wrote: »

. However they will eat 2 ton of ration costing maybe 550 euro and straw as well.

Over 5 mths or lifetime?

Bass Reeves

ZETOR_IS_BETTER wrote: »

Over 5 mths or lifetime?

Over the 120 day finishing period. Maybe not 2 ton but they will eat a lot of it. 120 days averaging 15kgs/day is 1.8ton. You will definately feed about 1.5 ton to a finishing bull

davidk1394

Used finish bulls here. I’m thinking of doing it again since everyone else is getting out. They’ll eat about 1.6 tones or so of feed. Myself personally I prefer bulls over bullocks as you’ve a quicker turn around

Who2

It would be fairly accepted around here that any continental bull that’s on a finishing diet shouldn’t be able to eat any more than 13 kg per day, if he is then you should be looking at the contents of the feed. I m not too well versed in finishing any sort of big number of bulls so can’t really say, but I’ve a few this year at 12 months and they are currently getting around 7kg per day and are spending their time snoring.

leoch

Yea i feed a few bulls and would never give them anymore than 10 kgs a day with straw or silage

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

leoch wrote: »

Yea i feed a few bulls and would never give them anymore than 10 kgs a day with straw or silage

In the same boat here.

Cavanjack

johnnyw20 wrote: »

What are lads views on bull beef for this year. Have 10 bulls. 5 Hex 3 simx 1 limx and 1 CHX

All 11 month old bulls and just weighted them at 413kg average. Would I be mad to throw them out for a month and get compensating growth and then back in the shed for 120 days ad lib or will I go ahead and castrate

Never done bull beef before so cautious about it and getting them into the factory next August

Putting them out for a month won't do much for them. They'll only be getting going after a month. I'd leave them out 3 months then back in to finish. They should be at 550kg when re housing.

grassroot1

Have you a factory willing to take these bulls when you have them fat?
A good few finishers are having trouble getting bulls killed around here.

Muckit

My point is anytime you have to be going feeding meal it's time. Feeding cattle in a shed is more time. More slurry. More money to feed merchant and contractors.

And btw lads in case you didn't get the memo, beef is f**ked in this country for the next few years. It baffles me why lads like taking the hard rather than the easy road.

Muckit

grassroot1 wrote: »

Have you a factory willing to take these bulls when you have them fat?
A good few finishers are having trouble getting bulls killed around here.

Sure why the hell would that matter?

_Brian

Got an impression from earlier posts that lads are playing the odds.

Hoping that if enough stop bull beef that there will be an opening for their finished bulls.

It’s a gamble, “he who dares wins” as Del Boy says. Or they go broke, that’s another very real option.

johnnyw20

Sorry only getting around to reply now. Some very good responses there thanks lads

They got 2kg of meal up to the first week in January and only good silage since. I suppose the main reason I’m looking at bull beef is because of the time they will spend on my farm and not having to carry them into the autumn

I bought extra calves this year so need the grazing at the back end. I suppose like everyone else I’m hoping that the trade picks up by the time they face the hook and that brexit and all that will be clearer by then

I’m going to ring a couple of factory’s today that are near enough to me and see what the chances are of them taking bulls in August and will they be willing to take overage bulls if it comes to that

As for the extra work, I don’t mind throwing the feed into them a few times a day and ive a very good feed mill down the road so can load up the trailer with nuts and keep costs down that way. Plus the extra slurry will be good at building the soil indexes

SuperTortoise

You'd want to be ringing around at least 4-5 weeks before they are fit, know of a lad around here that had cattle ready for going end of January, he got them going just in time to make u16 months but he was waiting over a month to get them going.

I've hedged my bets a little this year, sold off the lightest third of them 2 weeks ago at mart, will finish the rest at 14-16 months they are too strong to squeeze now, that is if i can get someone to take them which looks like it could be a serious problem, time will tell.

amacca

The IFJ farm in tullamore are at bull beef....what deal do they have with a factory or are they part of a producer group or something?

Bass Reeves

amacca wrote: »

The IFJ farm in tullamore are at bull beef....what deal do they have with a factory or are they part of a producer group or something?

They are slaughtering U16 months. Nearly all the project farms that kill bulls do the U16 months bulls. They go on the grid and get the QA.

wrangler

amacca wrote: »

The IFJ farm in tullamore are at bull beef....what deal do they have with a factory or are they part of a producer group or something?

They're in our lamb group for the sheep so I wouldn't imagine they're getting anything different than ordinary farmers for their cattle

freedominacup

johnnyw20 wrote: »

Sorry only getting around to reply now. Some very good responses there thanks lads

They got 2kg of meal up to the first week in January and only good silage since. I suppose the main reason I’m looking at bull beef is because of the time they will spend on my farm and not having to carry them into the autumn

I bought extra calves this year so need the grazing at the back end. I suppose like everyone else I’m hoping that the trade picks up by the time they face the hook and that brexit and all that will be clearer by then

I’m going to ring a couple of factory’s today that are near enough to me and see what the chances are of them taking bulls in August and will they be willing to take overage bulls if it comes to that

As for the extra work, I don’t mind throwing the feed into them a few times a day and ive a very good feed mill down the road so can load up the trailer with nuts and keep costs down that way. Plus the extra slurry will be good at building the soil indexes

Dawn grannagh always took bulls from us. The trick is always having them ready when standard systems aren't really sending big numbers.

johnnyw20

freedominacup wrote: »

Dawn grannagh always took bulls from us. The trick is always having them ready when standard systems aren't really sending big numbers.

Grannagh is my local factory. It’s only 20 mins away

johnnyw20

Just an update on this. Housed the 5 heaviest bulls and have them building up to adlib. The heaviest are 450kg plus. Aiming for a Liveweight slaughter of around 600kg and hope for the best. Have assurance from the factory that they will take them

johnnyw20

Here is a photo of them last night

patsy_mccabe

Have you agreed a price?

Bass Reeves

If they are only 450kgs LW now you are at nothing finishing them as bulls. more than likely that is fresh weight rather than mart weigh. you will have to feed them for 100-120 days.is the fella at the back a friesian. IMO they will go stale in you before they finish. They look like bucket fed cattle. The nearest looks like a montbelierd. I think you would be crazy to feed them on as bulls. At 600kgs LW they will only kill 300ish DW and you'll not get them to that weight.

johnnyw20

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If they are only 450kgs LW now you are at nothing finishing them as bulls. more than likely that is fresh weight rather than mart weigh. you will have to feed them for 100-120 days.is the fella at the back a friesian. IMO they will go stale in you before they finish. They look like bucket fed cattle. The nearest looks like a montbelierd. I think you would be crazy to feed them on as bulls. At 600kgs LW they will only kill 300ish DW and you'll not get them to that weight.

2 are whiteheads, 2 are simmentals and 1 charolais. They are all bucketfed. I bought them this day last year as calves. I was under the impression that factory’s want a 300-320kg carcass nowadays and I’m trying to move on dairybred stock quickly instead of carrying them on for another winter. Maybe I’m completely wrong but I’m going to experiment with it. I normally sell bottle reared stock in August/September at 17/18 months as bullocks at over 500kg but because of the drought last year I ended up selling them cheaply so this year I want to try something new

Bass Reeves

johnnyw20 wrote: »

2 are whiteheads, 2 are simmentals and 1 charolais. They are all bucketfed. I bought them this day last year as calves. I was under the impression that factory’s want a 300-320kg carcass nowadays and I’m trying to move on dairybred stock quickly instead of carrying them on for another winter. Maybe I’m completely wrong but I’m going to experiment with it. I normally sell bottle reared stock in August/September at 17/18 months as bullocks at over 500kg but because of the drought last year I ended up selling them cheaply so this year I want to try something new

Fat cover will be you issue as well as timing. By the time these cattle are fit they will be over 16 months. The WH may get tge FC on them the SI and CH will net to go to 65O kgs before they hit FS 2+. These will not be coming fit until late July you may be lucky and there may be a shortage of beef but if there is an ample supply of beef around you will struggle to get them killed.

Processors have a habit of reconfiguring tge grading machine after June to score harder on fat it makes bull like these very hard to get into a suitable FS..

On maths alone killing 300kgs at a price of 3.5/kg (at present they are 20-30c/kg less) the will make 1050 euro/ head. Its up to you but the odds are against what you are doing. It will cost 350-400/ head to get them to 600kgs LW.

blue5000

Bulls should KO closer to 60% than 50%, so 600kg LW will give you a 360 kg CW. But the two sims will need 15kg a day, don't forget there is approx 15% moisture in meal, so if you're giving them 10kg fresh weight of meal they might only be getting 8.5 kg DM.

Are you using straw or silage as roughage?

johnnyw20

They have straw available for roughage and I am offering them a small bit of haylege at the moment just until they are fully up to adlib and then I’ll take the haylege away and leave them on straw only

Bass Reeves

blue5000 wrote: »

Bulls should KO closer to 60% than 50%, so 600kg LW will give you a 360 kg CW. But the two sims will need 15kg a day, don't forget there is approx 15% moisture in meal, so if you're giving them 10kg fresh weight of meal they might only be getting 8.5 kg DM.

Are you using straw or silage as roughage?

Bucket fed one will not. I say at 600kgs LW fresh weight the WH will kill 310 and the SI and CH the same. Problem is the the CH and SI will only be FS 1+/2-. The WH should be ok FS. Most lads giving KO % are off empty stomachs. Another issue will be that the SI and CH will gobble 20-30% more meal/ day than the WH. Time is against him. They will gain 1.4ishkgs/ day on 10hgs of ration and straw.

johnnyw20

If they are not fit at the 16 month mark I’ll just take the hit and feed on for another month or 6 weeks and I’ll get them in as under 24 month bulls then. The simmentals only cost €150 as calves so they won’t leave too much of a hole in my pocket

Bass Reeves

johnnyw20 wrote: »

If they are not fit at the 16 month mark I’ll just take the hit and feed on for another month or 6 weeks and I’ll get them in as under 24 month bulls then. The simmentals only cost €150 as calves so they won’t leave too much of a hole in my pocket

Another 40 days feeding at that stage will.be 500kgs of nuts. That is another 150 euro on nuts alone. you will also have the risk of acidosis. Make sure to feed 100 grams a day of limestone flour of there is none in the ration. What is tge make up of your ration and what P is it.

johnnyw20

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Another 40 days feeding at that stage will.be 500kgs of nuts. That is another 150 euro on nuts alone. you will also have the risk of acidosis. Make sure to feed 100 grams a day of limestone flour of there is none in the ration. What is tge make up of your ration and what P is it.

This is the nut im feeding

Cavanjack

A neighbour of mine if feeding bulls with small bags costing €320 a tonne (not sure what You are paying). A better ration can be got in bulk for €260. That’s at least €80 a head of a saving before you factor in a better thrive from the ration at €260.
Finishing cattle is all about looking at costs even if you only have a few. You’d be better going with a bulk bag to a merchant rather than buying those bags.

johnnyw20

Cavanjack wrote: »

A neighbour of mine if feeding bulls with small bags costing €320 a tonne (not sure what You are paying). A better ration can be got in bulk for €260. That’s at least €80 a head of a saving before you factor in a better thrive from the ration at €260.
Finishing cattle is all about looking at costs even if you only have a few. You’d be better going with a bulk bag to a merchant rather than buying those bags.

I’m paying €290 at the moment. Getting 3 ton in bulk delivered next week. Got them started off on small bags first just to make it handy knowing the weights building up to adlib

grassroot1

johnnyw20 wrote:

This is the nut im feeding

Are you sure that ration is recommended for ad lib feeding

_Brian

Fair play to op for trying something he hasn’t done before.

Getting plenty of advice which will help and nothing like getting stuck into something and asking plenty of questions from people who are free to share their knowledge.

Tough times and trying something new is never any harm, even if you loose a few €€ you’ll learn allot for next time round.

I’ve learned lots from the few posts already here, know nothing about finishing as other than a few dat cull cows nothing here gets finished.

Hope they’re lucky for ya !

johnnyw20

grassroot1 wrote: »

Are you sure that ration is recommended for ad lib feeding

So they tell me anyway

johnnyw20

Update on this for those interested

Weighted them today 510kg ave
They were 440kg ave on 25 April so daily gain of over 3kg which is good going

Not 16 months till 7th August so a kilo a day would get them to 600kg so well on track

johnnyw20

Here is one of the bulls being finished. 14 months old today. Bought for €150 as a calf

Muckit

Is the daddy simmental?

johnnyw20

Muckit wrote: »

Is the daddy simmental?

Yeah simmental. First sim I ever bought

johnnyw20

Ran them over the scales this morning. 570kg ave. Happy out. 2.2kg daily rain since last weigh

squinn2912

johnnyw20 wrote: »

Ran them over the scales this morning. 570kg ave. Happy out. 2.2kg daily rain since last weigh

That’s a great gain those bulls are doing brilliant. I’m just after killing a pen with another to go. Reading the early comments here I think it’s a bit off pessimistically. They’ll make the weight easily. Doubt it if they’d eat 15kgs I couldn’t get mine to. I don’t think I’ll do it again though. They work out about even with bullocks but you save grass. Meal is a killer though. I think there’s more pros with the bullock. I spent an hour solid trying to load them. Three of us. If that were a pen of bullocks I’d load them on my own at the same weight.

CloughCasey1

Sent my 3 off today.
Ave 1515 each. Happy enough as they only cost ave 535 as weanlings. Don't know killout weights yet.

johnnyw20

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Sent my 3 off today.
Ave 1515 each. Happy enough as they only cost ave 535 as weanlings. Don't know killout weights yet.

That’s a nice little profit. Were they off cows? Let us know the grading and killout when you find out

CloughCasey1

johnnyw20 wrote: »

That’s a nice little profit. Were they off cows? Let us know the grading and killout when you find out

They were. Bought as 5mt olds off cows going to factory.

Cavanjack

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

They were. Bought as 5mt olds off cows going to factory.

Good going. What age did you kill them at? How much meal did they eat?

CloughCasey1

Cavanjack wrote: »

Good going. What age did you kill them at? How much meal did they eat?

One was 16mts next week
Second 15.5mts
3rd 14.5mts
Haven't calculated the meal quantity yet.
Worked up to slowly to16kg per head per day since mid April when housed. Were on 2kg high protein mix all winter. They were housed once the bullocks were let out.