Tips dealing with sleazy Male customers

LegacyUser

Hi

I work on a reception/information desk alone in a hospitality setting, the nearest team members are a few minutes away.

As I am alone, I often find that some older Male customers see a young looking female in a service job and just assume that they can say what they like/wind me up/that I am fair game.

I have a good sense of humour and can have a laugh with customers where appropriate.

The information that I have to give to them involves a good bit explaining, so involves a good bit of interaction. Often times they do attempt to cross the line, will stare obviously at my chest (I deliberately wear layers and dress modestly so they can't see all that much), they attempt to make me flirt with them, when I stay polite but firm they still continue try to make me laugh/smile/engage with them on a personal level.

The management watch feedback and reviews like a hawk and any complaint could be detrimental to my job.

Any tips for dealing assertively yet politely (In a way that won't get me fired) with these creeps?

leggo

First step should be asking your manager. Get a mandate for what you can/can’t say, giving them specific examples and asking them what they’d say in that situation. You may get bad advice, but then at least that goes on the record in any future possible dispute. You have to work the process to your advantage here and in any job.

Businesses are also terribly afraid of staff having claims too, particularly if there’s anything sexual involved. So think 3 steps ahead if you had to take them to court for unfair dismissal if a complaint came in, what would the right answer be then? “Guest came in and behaved inappropriately. I had asked manager for advice for situations like this and he said to ‘just put up with it’. I felt unsafe and vulnerable by allowing this comment to pass so politely informed the guest he was behaving inappropriately. He complained and I was sacked.” That looks awful for the hotel right? So the trick is letting them know that before anything even happens so they have to give you proper support and advice for these situations. I’ll always crack jokes in work about making claims and so on, now they’re total jokes (eg if I nearly tripped on a wet floor I’d be like “aw man if I fell there that’d be 20 grand!” So it’s not a threat either) but it also has the subtle benefit of letting people know I know my rights and to not try dick me around.

I worked with a girl who was great at dealing with creeps. If they said anything weird, she’d just pause for a second, give them an absolute death stare that went through their soul, then carry on as if nothing had happened without acknowledging their comment. How could they complain about that? Why would they want to, because doing so would mean ratting themselves out and admitting they were rejected? And she didn’t say anything wrong so any subsequent investigation off an unlikely complaint would have to exonerate her.

I myself used to work in a women’s clothes shop where sometimes, if they were short staffed, I’d have to hand out the numbered tags if someone was going into the changing rooms. The odd time you’d get a woman who’d be like “You’re going to try look at me while I change” (they’d be that brazen, ah retail...) or something like that. I’d just look unimpressed and somewhat disgusted at the thought then say something like, “I assure you I have absolutely no interest in that.” The funny thing was they’d then sometimes get thick that I didn’t want to look and they’d been rejected. But again, if a complaint went in, it’d only prove I had done my job. So you just have to be clever about it.

helimachoptor

Ask would they like someone to talk to their wife girlfriend or daughter in the same way.

Xterminator

erm is it just me or did most readers expect the customer were bang out of line?

Often times they do attempt to cross the line, will stare obviously at my chest (I deliberately wear layers and dress modestly so they can't see all that much), they attempt to make me flirt with them, when I stay polite but firm they still continue try to make me laugh/smile/engage with them on a personal level.

they stare at your chest. if someone just doesn't make much eye contact you could say 'my face is up here' straight out, but in a tone that isnt overly harsh (for 1st offenders make a joke of it). Call them out.

they attempt to make me flirt with them, sounds like a acceptable personal interaction -you can assertively decide what you share etc, but is there any harm, or intent in that? Its not harassment in itself, and to be honest you seem to assume the worst of intentions to a fairly innocent action.

continue try to make me laugh/smile/engage with them on a personal level - sounds very normal for a customer service job. Absolutely par for the course. You should be engaging right back if you want good feedback.

OP you have the power to control these interactions. You seem to make everyone out to be creeps. There is room for a more benign interpretation of their actions.

IMO if you were well suited to this role you would be chatty friendly but assertive when you need to be. You would not let them cross the line, but still be engaging. This would solicit good feedback from most customers and if there are a few who stray out of line, you would simply demand they behave, (without causing offense if possible).

If you cannot do this or dont want to do this, then perhaps a change of role would be good?

JustAThought

Sounds a bit like you're oversensitive and over-reacting. You wear lodes of layers & cover up but they all stare at your chest? Do you put documents on the desk and explain from them?

Maybe being a receptionist just dosn't suit you. Maybe ask for a transfer to back end operations instead. Everyone is not a predator.

baby and crumble

To all those guys coming on and telling the OP to 'get over it' tell me, how would you feel if you were on a reception desk and a guy came up to you and stared at your crotch (even with your trousers on and not showing anything), constantly tried to flirt with you at work when you're attempting to be professional, and made you incredibly uncomfortable, uncomfortable enough to write looking for advice on how to deal with it professionally on a message board?

Also, people flirting with you when you're at work is not 'acceptable and perfectly normal behaviour'. Ok, maybe it's not 'predatory' but it's ridiculous and stupid. What's she going to do, have some randomer flirt with her at work and decide he's the one for her? :rolleyes:

leggo

I’ve worked in an environment where women get leered at and have to deal with inappropriate behaviour, I’ve had to kick lads out of places and walk women to their cars at the end of their shift so they felt safe. Anyone who says “get over it/you’re just not cut out for it” is, at the very least, ignorant of how bad it can get. Us lads simply don’t have to deal with anything like it. And you shouldn’t have to be “cut out for it” in any line of work.

Rubberchikken

op you shouldnt have to deal with this behaviour anywhere.
men who behave like that have little sense tbh.
i liked the reference further up where someone in this position just gives the guy a cold stare and no reaction.
a lot of these men are prehaps bolstering their ego or may even genuinely think theyre being funny/attractive/whatever and might not have the cop.on to realise that their behaviour is unwelcome.

the_pen_turner

leggo wrote: »

I’ve worked in an environment where women get leered at and have to deal with inappropriate behaviour, I’ve had to kick lads out of places and walk women to their cars at the end of their shift so they felt safe. Anyone who says “get over it/you’re just not cut out for it” is, at the very least, ignorant of how bad it can get. Us lads simply don’t have to deal with anything like it. And you shouldn’t have to be “cut out for it” in any line of work.

i dont see what the customers are doing wrong here. there is nothing in the op to say they are doing anything inapropriate.
making you smile or laugh isnt inapropriate its just being friendly.
looking at breast is normal and harmless enough . continuesly doing it can be harrasment but a once off isnt inapropriate.
someone atractive is bound to cath your eye



not sure what advise to give the op.
can you be a bit more specific on what they are doing to make you smile or laugh etc.

baby and crumble

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i dont see what the customers are doing wrong here. there is nothing in the op to say they are doing anything inapropriate.
making you smile or laugh isnt inapropriate its just being friendly.
looking at breast is normal and harmless enough . continuesly doing it can be harrasment but a once off isnt inapropriate.
someone atractive is bound to cath your eye.

Here’s the thing. I’m attracted to women.

I do not check out my female colleagues at any point. If I have meetings with other women that I might ordinarily be attracted to on a night out etc I make it my business, in a work environment, to maintain eye contact and not flirt. It’s really very simple. Why some men think it’s “only natural” to sexualise women in the workplace is beyond me.

In particular in her role, unlike mine, she probably feels she has to put up with a lot to get “good reviews” etc. So the power is in these guys hands and they know it.

The OP doesn’t have to justify to anyone on thread why she feels this is inappropriate.

leggo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

looking at breast is normal and harmless enough .

This. Just this. I’m a man without breasts reading text and I feel creeped out at that sentence alone. Standing there staring at someone in general is weird and intimidating, if I stood on a street corner and just stared you out of it (even in a non-sexual way) you’d feel uncomfortable. If you were a woman who likely wouldn’t be physically capable of defending yourself against a man if it came to it, forced to be nice because you’re in work and serving this person, but also not wanting to seem like you’re encouraging them and not trained or given any instruction on what you can/can’t say...multiple that discomfort several times.

Now can we stop contending that this is a thing, I’ve witnessed it happen regularly. It’s a thing so give the OP advice instead of doubting her, or just don’t post at all.

the_pen_turner

leggo wrote: »

This. Just this. I’m a man without breasts reading text and I feel creeped out at that sentence alone. Standing there staring at someone in general is weird and intimidating, if I stood on a street corner and just stared you out of it (even in a non-sexual way) you’d feel uncomfortable. If you were a woman who likely wouldn’t be physically capable of defending yourself against a man if it came to it, forced to be nice because you’re in work and serving this person, but also not wanting to seem like you’re encouraging them and not trained or given any instruction on what you can/can’t say...multiple that discomfort several times.

Now can we stop contending that this is a thing, I’ve witnessed it happen regularly. It’s a thing so give the OP advice instead of doubting her, or just don’t post at all.

There is nothing in your post that has anything got to do with what I posted. I'm not suggesting its ok to continuously look at or stare at someone, that in appropriate.

All I'm saying is that a momentary catch if the eye isn't inapropriate. You are just noticing something. Nothing wrong with that

Op could 6ou elaborate on what they are doing to make you laugh etc

the_pen_turner

baby and crumble wrote: »

Here’s the thing. I’m attracted to women.

I do not check out my female colleagues at any point. If I have meetings with other women that I might ordinarily be attracted to on a night out etc I make it my business, in a work environment, to maintain eye contact and not flirt. It’s really very simple. Why some men think it’s “only natural” to sexualise women in the workplace is beyond me.

In particular in her role, unlike mine, she probably feels she has to put up with a lot to get “good reviews” etc. So the power is in these guys hands and they know it.

The OP doesn’t have to justify to anyone on thread why she feels this is inappropriate.

These people arnt in work . 8 don't think so anyway. The op is

leggo

You said it’s “normal and harmless” to stare at breasts. Exact quote. Stop being creepy, stop arguing that the problem isn’t a problem, nobody asked if you thought that, if you don’t have anything helpful to post then just don’t post.

SoundsRight

So long as they just look with their eyes and not their hands, I don't see how it could be an issue. If you take a confrontational approach you could do irreparable damage to the business.

eviltwin

SoundsRight wrote: »

So long as they just look with their eyes and not their hands, I don't see how it could be an issue. If you take a confrontational approach you could do irreparable damage to the business.

It's an issue because it's embarrassing, condescending and intimidating. Women just want to do their job. A look here and there is fine but I doubt the OP created this thread based on an odd glance.

The OP didn't look for your opinion, if you think staring at women is socially acceptable that's on you, she doesn't have to justify her feelings, the fact she feels uncomfortable is enough. Work is hard enough without dealing with people who make you feel uncomfortable.

woodchuck

Mod note:

The OP has stated that there are customers crossing the line with their interactions - no more back and forth debate on this please.

Posters are reminded that off topic posting is against the forum charter and you should only post if you have advice for the OP.

baby and crumble

Getting back on topic (sorry if I helped drag it off mods), I actually think the best thing to do is ask your HR dept or something similar what the best approach would be. It's likely they have a policy regarding employee safety, especially in front-facing roles. If nothing else, by asking the question and having it on the record, you have something to fall back on if there's a complaint from some guy about any comment you may make.

If you get someone useful from them like 'you can ask them to stop, or give them a look' or whatever then go by that and you should be fine because you've clearly followed protocol, or at least what you were told to do.

If they just tell you to 'suck it up' or are unwilling to engage, then you know that the company don't really have your best interests at heart, and you could possibly start looking for another role somewhere. Easier said than done, I know, OP.

tretorn

It depends on your age I would think.

If this is your first job and you are only nineteen or so then yes the company should be helping you. If you are mature and have experience then you need to grow a pair and do some assertiveness classes.

Keep it completely professional and to the point while being helpful. You dont have to engage in banter, just smile and give whatever information is required and then say is there anything else i can help you with if asshole doesnt get the message.

There isnt much you can do if someone looks at your breasts so just ignore it. If you have very big breasts maybe think about a breast reduction, it will make a huge difference to your life. I am thinking you are large on top if you are resorting to wearing layers to cover up.

Be careful you arent too sensitive, if other women have been in this role without complaint then the problem may be with you, these customers business is paying your salary and the firm need them more than they need you.

baby and crumble

tretorn wrote: »

If you have very big breasts maybe think about a breast reduction, it will make a huge difference to your life. I am thinking you are large on top if you are resorting to wearing layers to cover up.

Jesus. F*cking. Christ.

yeah, that's the solution to creeps who stare at womens breasts. Go under a non essential surgery and pay out thousands just so you can possibly expect a day at work where you don't get eyeballed.

Op, ignore this. It is 100% NOT your fault if guys are staring at you just going about your day. At all.

Neyite

tretorn wrote: »

There isnt much you can do if someone looks at your breasts so just ignore it. If you have very big breasts maybe think about a breast reduction, it will make a huge difference to your life. I am thinking you are large on top if you are resorting to wearing layers to cover up.
.

Just to clarify here - are you actually suggesting she get surgery to stop men looking at her breasts?


Really?

zoobizoo

baby and crumble wrote: »

Jesus. F*cking. Christ.

yeah, that's the solution to creeps who stare at womens breasts. Go under a non essential surgery and pay out thousands just so you can possibly expect a day at work where you don't get eyeballed.

Op, ignore this. It is 100% NOT your fault if guys are staring at you just going about your day. At all.

As a man I 100% agree with baby and crumble.

tretorn

I think you can get the surgery done for free if you are over a certain size or if the size of your breasts is causing mental health difficulties.

The OP is being put under stress because of her breasts and I am just guessing they are big because most men dont stare at average sized breasts. You arent going to stop men staring, thats basic biology and the covering up the OP is doing isnt solving the problem.

So, you either learn to deal with it and going to HR isnt going to help matters because there isnt much HR can do about men staring, the bottom line is HR is on the side of management and management want male customers and they really dont care where male customers are looking and even if you accuse a man of staring he will deny it and probably go to a solicitor complaining about false accusations.

You are going to come across all sorts of not so nice people in your working life and if you complain too much you will become a thorn in managements side and then they will find some pretext to get rid of you.

The real sad thing about this is you were probably chosen because of your physical attributes for this position and not how good you are at your job and if you move to another position management will just get another young attractive female to fill the vacancy.

baby and crumble

tretorn wrote: »

I think you can get the surgery done for free if you are over a certain size or if the size of your breasts is causing mental health difficulties.

Well, according to the OP, it's not her breasts that are causing problems. The sleazy dudes who look at them when she's trying to be professional in her job are the problem. Can you get surgery to remove their eyes instead? That'd work.

tretorn wrote: »

The OP is being put under stress because of her breasts and I am just guessing they are big because most men dont stare at average sized breasts. You arent going to stop men staring, thats basic biology and the covering up the OP is doing isnt solving the problem.

Again, no. She's under stress because of sleazy men who think they're entitled to stare at her, keep flirting when she's clearly not responding, and force her into jokes and 'hilarity' just because she's a bit of a captive audience.

Also, your statement re: breast size and attraction (if you could call 'staring' attraction) is wrong.

tretorn wrote: »

The real sad thing about this is you were probably chosen because of your physical attributes for this position and not how good you are at your job and if you move to another position management will just get another young attractive female to fill the vacancy.

Yes, because the only possible reason a woman could be chosen for a public facing role is because she's hot. Nothing to do with her skills, or education, or experience. So long as she's eye candy for the boys, happy days right?

Again, OP, ignore this nonsensical advice would be my guideline to you here.

mickuhaha

A friend of mine works in a gym. He says the woman are far worse then the men for this type of thing. He said the woman turn to anger far faster then the men for being turned down.

wiggle16

tretorn wrote: »

. If you have very big breasts maybe think about a breast reduction.

Why stop there? Perhaps the OP should get gender reassignment surgery in case getting a breast augmentation doesn't do the trick.

Words fail me.

tretorn

And, whats your advice, go to management and complain because male customers are in OPS opinion staring at her breasts. They may be wondering why she is dressed in layers of clothing in a warm office and not really looking at her breasts at all. What do you want management to do, they arent going to tell paying customers where they are to look, this would be the surest way of closing down the business. And also dont forget if senior management are male then some of them are likely to be taking taking unnecessary trips past the reception desk to get a look too.

Im sorry but employees on the lowest rung of the ladder are easily disposable, this is the reality and the customer is always right. if OP hasnt skin thick enough to deal with customers then she does need to find a back office role.

And, yes, most hotel receptionists in good quality hotels are young and attractive, this goes for both men and women in these roles, its all part of the hotels image and people do make bookings based on the hotels websites and if employees are unattractive and obese that will put potential customers off.

baby and crumble

tretorn wrote: »

And, whats your advice, go to management and complain because male customers are in OPS opinion staring at her breasts. They may be wondering why she is dressed in layers of clothing in a warm office and not really looking at her breasts at all. What do you management to do, they arent going to tell paying customers where they are to look, this would be the surest way of closing down the business.

She's not asking for management to come in and tell the guys not to stop staring, I never once said to 'complain' about the guys behavior. She would be asking for advice from senior management to deal with an issue that has come up in her working day that is causing her to be uncomfortable in work, and therefore not performing her role to the best of her ability because she is unsure how to deal with it.

If the OP was a guy and was having similar issues with female (or male, obviously) customers I'd say the exact same thing.

Like, I really don't see the issue with doing that, if I were to go to my boss with a similar issue he would be horrified that I was uncomfortable and find ways to work with me to deal with it the most appropriate way possible.

LegacyUser

tretorn wrote: »

I think you can get the surgery done for free if you are over a certain size or if the size of your breasts is causing mental health difficulties.

Are you for real?? The OP should have surgery? SURGERY! She's not having mental health difficulties, she's having customers crossing the line.

tretorn wrote: »

The OP is being put under stress because of her breasts and I am just guessing they are big because most men dont stare at average sized breasts. You arent going to stop men staring, thats basic biology and the covering up the OP is doing isnt solving the problem.

The size of a womans breasts make no difference in wither they get stared at or not so suggesting some get surgery for other peoples bad manners is maddness. The OP is stressed because of other peoples actions not hers.

tretorn wrote: »

So, you either learn to deal with it and going to HR isnt going to help matters because there isnt much HR can do about men staring, the bottom line is HR is on the side of management and management want male customers and they really dont care where male customers are looking and even if you accuse a man of staring he will deny it and probably go to a solicitor complaining about false accusations.

The Op should speak to HR so they have guidelines on how to react to such comments/actions and has a record that she has spoken to them about it. If they say suck it up darling then she knows its not a company she should be working for and can look for a better company that will respect her.

tretorn wrote: »

You are going to come across all sorts of not so nice people in your working life and if you complain too much you will become a thorn in managements side and then they will find some pretext to get rid of you.

So be a good little girl and do what your told and don't make waves. That's how nothing changes. You made a comment in another posts that other women had that role and didn't complain so it can't be that bad but its due to comments like this that they didn't say anything. They are told they'll loose their jobs if that make waves. Utterly archaic attitude

tretorn wrote: »

The real sad thing about this is you were probably chosen because of your physical attributes for this position and not how good you are at your job and if you move to another position management will just get another young attractive female to fill the vacancy.

Wow....just wow. You are just a pretty face OP so don't you dare have a thought in that pretty little head of yours.

If the OP does get a breast reduction as you suggest then surely she'd loose her job anyway as the only reason she was hired was because of her looks.

Honestly the replies on this thread are just amazing!! A human being has been made feel uncomfortable to the point that she has asked for help in dealing with it and is basically told to keep quite and that's just the way it is.

OP speak to your manager so you know what the companies stance is if you do ask these customers to politely back off, if you feel they don't have your back then seriously start looking for a new company as there just isn't enough time in the day to deal with that. I worked in a bookstore as a student and we had guys coming in all the time who acted like this but our manager was very clearly on our side and we knew this so we could be firm with them.

tretorn

Shes is presumably an adult herself so why cant she deal with it herself.

Dressing in layers of clothes is not a solution, she will look fairly ridiculous in the summer dressed in layers of clothing.

I mean seriously, its not as if she has to spend her working day with Johnny in the desk next to her leering at her breasts, she is dealing with these customers and then they are gone from her life and the vast majority are probably very nice people. You cant stop a customer looking wherever they like so pointless going to management with something so trivial, she wont get any thanks from management for giving them a headache trying to respond to this, they will mark her down as a neurotic female and as I said look for ways to get rid. You need a certain amount of resilience to get through the working day and its not like school where someone has the time to sort out problems for you.

Op, just ignore these men, let them stare, you just concentrate on getting rid of them as fast as possible. Dont engage in banter, thats just time wasting anyway, just deal with them professionally as in did you have a nice break, hope to see you again, bye,bye now, safe journey.

wiggle16

Mod note:

Right, that's enough back and forth in the thread I think. This is getting very off topic. I'd also remind posters to avoid referring to the OP in the third person, it's poor manners, this is her thread. Please be mindul of that.

Tretorn, the OP is looking for advice with how to deal with her issue, not why she is having this issue in the first place.

The wider issues of front-of-house jobs aren't up for discussion. Let's leave it at that.

Thanks

.......

I worked in a supermarket when i was in my late teens and early 20s and I had to deal with "the great unwashed", a sizeable number of which were men who would behave inappropriately - although actually some of the staff were worse than the general public when it came to leery behaviour.

The way I dealt with it was to adopt quite a prim professional "look", hair tied back nice and neat, minimal make up, uniform clean neat, serviceable shoes type of thing. Nothing to give rise to comment, neutral nail colour, not much jewellery. I mean, I was in work, so I just wanted to look clean neat and efficient.

And I adopted a professional manner. So I would speak to people in quite a firm and clear way, a bit jolly hockey sticks. I would stick to the point and if someone made an inappropriate comment, I would pause slightly, then pick up where I left off as though they hadnt said something inappropriate.

I was asked out by customers, asked regularly what a pretty girl like me was doing in a job like that, asked what time I was off at, asked if I was interested in dating etc... I would smile politely and say "I dont discuss my personal life in work". Sometimes if it was something I just couldnt ignore I would say out good and loud, "Im sorry, I didnt hear you properly, did you just say THAT YOU LIKED HOW I LOOK IN MY UNIFORM BLOUSE?" - and make sure I said it loud enough to attract attention at which point the lech would usually scurry off. If they were frightening me I would tell them that I needed to speak to my supervisor and I would go tell her to deal with them. Frankly, my minimum wage didnt pay me to handle scary intense weirdos.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Yeah it's a funny one, the younger you are and the more entry level the position (i.e. where a customer has much more clout to complain) the lower the bar for appropriate behaviour. What's just natural and harmless and a bit of craic suddenly becomes a complete non starter when they're up against someone who can talk back or who they have a vested interest in not annoying. If you wouldn't let your glance linger on your bank manager's breasts or chance a hilariously saucy joke with your dentist right as she fires up the drill then leave poor receptionists, bar maids etc alone. You're well aware of your behaviour and its effects and choosing to inflict it on people who can't do anything about it.

OP, the advice to ignore comments point blank and keep it professional is good, I've flat out walked away from sleazy customers when they were mid sentence but obviously that's not possible for you right now.

You need to try and communicate that you find this behaviour unimpressive and boring rather than that you're wound up or upset by it. You can't come out and say so but your body language and facial expression can do a lot. Clarity from HR is a good shout too.