I had a car accident

ninjarambohd

Hi everyone. OK so today I had a car accident. To shorten the story I was going over this narrow bridge and another car was coming opposite me. I kept going to the left hand side but she came with a lot of speed and crashed into the front of my car.

Anyhow, she said that she has no insurance and has a provisional licence, with no one with a full licence sitting beside her. I called the guards, but before they arrived the girls dad came and told me to tell the guards that "There were two people in the car, the girl with the full licence was the driver" He also started cussing at me etc.. when I refused to do so.

By the time the guards arrived, the dad made the girl with one of her friends to flee the scene. All I managed to do was to take a photograph of the car they were fleeing away in and a photo of the girl who crashed into me.

When the guards arrived I told him about this situation and he spoke to the girls father. I asked the guard what happens now? He told me he would be in contact with me in a day or two and would get the girl to appear at the gardai station.

Just wondering is this how the procedure is done when the actual driver flee the scene?

biko

Since you're on the site since 2017 I will assume this is not a troll thread.

Either way about the girl, her dad and the garda - if you are hit by an uninsured driver you have protection from MIB, the Motor Insurers' Bureau of Ireland
Read more on this site https://www.mibi.ie/making-a-claim.52.html

ninjarambohd

biko wrote: »

Since you're on the site since 2017 I will assume this is not a troll thread.

Either way about the girl, her dad and the garda - if you are hit by an uninsured driver you have protection from MIB, the Motor Insurers' Bureau of Ireland

I swear its no troll, I've never faced this situation before. So what happens.

Tomw86

Stick with the story (the truth) which you told the guards is my only advice. DO NOT CHANGE IT no matter how much pressure you are put under from the other party.

I would seek the advice from a solicitor too as it does not sound like the other party will let this go without an almighty fight as they have 1) lied to Gardaí 2) fled the scene of an accident, 3) were driving without insurance and 4) A driver on provisional was driving on their own which incriminates the driver and owner of the car - not likely her.

If you are approached by them to try and settle it in cash then it is your decision - I would personally ask them for a huge amount to do that (like 10-15k on top of the repairs).

bazz26

Any eye witnesses, cctv or dash cam footage? Without any of these it's going to be difficult to prove your word over his and I'll bet the father will claim you crashed into him too.

ninjarambohd

bazz26 wrote: »

Any eye witnesses, cctv or dash cam footage? Without any of these it's going to be difficult to prove your word over his and I'll bet the father will claim you crashed into him too.

None of the above, but it's clear that she crashed into me and then drove to rhe right side of the road and parked up. I have photographs and all too.

bazz26

Is herself behind the wheel of her car in any of the photos?

biko

Did you get the garda's name?
Did they tell you what happens next?

ninjarambohd

bazz26 wrote: »

Is herself behind the wheel in any of the photos?

No unfortunately.

ninjarambohd

biko wrote: »

Did you get the garda's name?
Did they tell you what happens next?

Yes to both question.

biko

So all you want to know is if there is some consequence for the girl running away?
Nothing else?

ninjarambohd

biko wrote: »

So all you want to know is if there is some consequence for the girl running away?
Nothing else?

Yes and what should I do now?

tcawley29

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Yes and what should I do now?

Have you notified your own insurance company yet?

They must be notified

bazz26

ninjarambohd wrote: »

No unfortunately.

Unfortunately actually proving the girl was driving the other car at the time of the accident is more difficult. I guess the most important thing for you is for the other driver's insurance company accept liability and repair your car. Given the father tried to persuade you into lying and then told her to flee the scene may result in them challenging liability which results in a drawn out battle with their insurance company. I hope it doesn't come to that.

Jmccoy1

As the person above said, stick to your story and don’t under any circumstances give them an inch. If you’ve any injuries make sure you get a detailed medical report. If you’re intimidated in anyway by the other parties call the guards and press charges. Have faith, all will be good.

Odyssey 2005

Write everything down today. Don't wait until your asked to make a statement. Every single thing that you can remember,weather,speed,width of the road,position of both cars both before and post impact,what was said between you and her and then you and her father. Print off all pics you have.
As advised don't change your story, don't exaggerate it or leave anything out. Its unlikely that they'll offer to fix your car as she fled the scene and likely has no insurance. The garda will have to prosecute her for both as you have already reported it(and rightly so). The MIBI should sort your vehicle out.

Squidgy Black

There's a couple of scenarios that could play out here.

1) The Garda deem there to be enough evidence and prosecute the driver for no insurance, and your claim with the MIBI goes through
2) The Garda go with their story of the fully licenced (and presumably insured) driver causing the crash, and their insurance paying out.
3) They go ahead with the story of the fully licenced driver being the one driving, and dispute the liability and try and say it wasn't their fault.

Hopefully it comes to the 2nd, would likely be the easiest and less drawn out route, but given the way the father acted it could be a long road ahead. Would definitely be reaching out to a solicitor if I was in your shoes.

tcawley29

Also if she was accompanied by her father when she was driving why would she have called him after the accident. An important thing to take note of here OP

BettePorter

tcawley29 wrote: »

Also if she was accompanied by her father when she was driving why would she have called him after the accident. An important thing to take note of here OP

I'd assume the fathers story to cops is she was never there... I was the one driving. Prove I wasn't.

tcawley29

BettePorter wrote: »

I'd assume the fathers story to cops is she was never there... I was the one driving. Prove I wasn't.

Thats not going to work as the OP said he got a picture of her at the scene.

BettePorter

tcawley29 wrote: »

BettePorter wrote: »

I'd assume the fathers story to cops is she was never there... I was the one driving. Prove I wasn't.

Thats not going to work as the OP said he got a picture of her at the scene.

Not in the car though...only at the scene or in the car that left.

Guard, I was coming from town with my sister and I rang my dad to see where he was (covers call she obviously made to da).....He said he'd just had an accident ...so we were close by and stopped off to see he was ok.

newmember2

tcawley29 wrote: »

Thats not going to work as the OP said he got a picture of her at the scene.

All the photo shows is that she was present, not who was driving, although the guard would have to question what possible motive you could have for lying. There is a phone record of her calling her Dad although I'd doubt an RTA without any physical injuries would warrant much investigation by the gardai.

ted1

Was their an insurance disc in the car? The fathers/ mothers policy may be active on the car

Wildly Boaring

ted1 wrote: »

Was their an insurance disc in the car? The fathers/ mothers policy may be active on the car

I'd read it that there is.

But

The driver was not named and not covered.

Nothing to add to the good advice already given OP.

Best of luck.

FDave

The OP has a pic of the girl at the scene and there is a high probability that the car is in her name or a parents. Either she will collaborate the op's story or unwittingly put her father at the scene. Either way i dont think it will be too hard for the garda to pin the blame on the other party.

ted1

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I'd read it that there is.

But

The driver was not named and not covered.

Nothing to add to the good advice already given OP.

Best of luck.

But it still should pay out to the third party and just not to the driver

That the other driver fled the scene of the accident means any claims as to the Dad driving, their being an accompanying driver, or well...anything are completely undermined.

In that regard, the OP has nothing to worry about.

johndaman66

ted1 wrote: »

Was their an insurance disc in the car? The fathers/ mothers policy may be active on the car

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I'd read it that there is.

But

The driver was not named and not covered.

Where did you read that to be the case because I didn't? (I'm not saying that it was mentioned that there was no insurance disc on the car either).

OP, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if it transpires that you are being compensated by the MIB don't expect anything near the cost of repairs/ market value of your car. Apparently it can be a lengthy and soul sapping experience too.

Early days for you yet but it may be a consideration to claim of your own insurance if you have comp cover and the damage is expensive. With some companies like AXA for example offer you will not loose your NCD if hit by an uninsured driver. You may have seen the AXA redline ad being plugged to the nth degree on the TV where the uninsured driver that hits them is driving off and the dope is staring at his body coloured bumper.

On a side note, on the basis of the fathers behaviour are we dealing with people from a certain ethnic group I'd hazard a guess?

Squidgy Black

johndaman66 wrote: »

Where did you read that to be the case because I didn't? (I'm not saying that it was mentioned that there was no insurance disc on the car either).

Assuming there was insurance and this was the reasoning behind the father trying to convince the OP to say it was the fully licensed driver who was driving, because they'd end up with a hefty fine and points for no insurance either way if there was no disc.

johndaman66

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Assuming there was insurance and this was the reasoning behind the father trying to convince the OP to say it was the fully licensed driver who was driving, because they'd end up with a hefty fine and points for no insurance either way if there was no disc.

My understanding is that if you do not have an insurance disc displayed you have 10 days to present your insurance certificate at a Garda station. If you do present yourself at a Garda station with the insurance certificate within 10 days then you shouldn't expect to find yourself in any serious trouble. On the other hand not having insurance/ or not being insured to drive a car (as opposed to no insurance displayed) is a very very different offence. Please see link;
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Your-Vehicle-/Road-Worthiness--Related-Offences/Insurance/


From past experience I've found that making assumptions can be a costly and dangerous game at times.

Squidgy Black

johndaman66 wrote: »

My understanding is that if you do not have an insurance disc displayed you have 10 days to present your insurance certificate at a Garda station. If you do present yourself at a Garda station with the insurance certificate within 10 days then you shouldn't expect to find yourself in any serious trouble. On the other hand not having insurance/ or not being insured to drive a car (as opposed to no insurance displayed) is a very very different offence. Please see link;
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Your-Vehicle-/Road-Worthiness--Related-Offences/Insurance/


From past experience I've found that making assumptions can be a costly and dangerous game at times.

Yes it's a fine only for non-display of a disc. But they wouldn't have gone through the effort of trying to convince the OP to say it was someone else that was driving the car if both of them are not insured.

Look at it this way, if the Learner is found to be the one driving, they get done for driving without insurance and driving without an accompanying driver.

If they get away with the switch, the fully licensed would just get a claim through the insurance. If they're not insured they'll get points and a fine minimum for no insurance anyways. So it makes little sense to try swap the driver if neither of them had insurance.

Whether there was a disc in the window or not is a bit irrelevant to the OP's situation, it's more if they have a policy or not that he can claim against or have to go to MIBI.

johndaman66

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yes it's a fine only for non-display of a disc. But they wouldn't have gone through the effort of trying to convince the OP to say it was someone else that was driving the car if both of them are not insured.

Look at it this way, if the Learner is found to be the one driving, they get done for driving without insurance and driving without an accompanying driver.

If they get away with the switch, the fully licensed would just get a claim through the insurance. If they're not insured they'll get points and a fine minimum for no insurance anyways. So it makes little sense to try swap the driver if neither of them had insurance.

Whether there was a disc in the window or not is a bit irrelevant to the OP's situation, it's more if they have a policy or not that he can claim against or have to go to MIBI.

You are most likely correct but we do not know that for sure and hence why I am saying why we need to ease up on the assumptions here.

If for argument sake the father was an elderly man and didn't really need the use of a car to any great extent but his daughter did for commuting to work wouldn't it be better then (or at least ultimately less of an inconvenience) to say the father is driving. Hell, he may not have a license at all so no points to loose then.... but I'm making a lot of assumptions without having established facts there too.

Whether or not there is an insurance disc displayed on the window is irrelevant in the scheme of it all. Whether or not there is insurance on the other parties car is very relevant. The OP has not clarified which or whether though. OP said among other things;

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Anyhow, she said that she has no insurance and has a provisional licence, with no one with a full licence sitting beside her.

In certain instances insurance companies (and not all, depends on the policy) will allow for third party claims in situations such as these where they have covered specific persons on the policy and there is accident involving the car being driven by a person not named on the policy (if the car was stolen that may be a different scenario - not sure on that one). Hence there may not be a question of making a claim through MIBI.

Moreover, in reality what would often tend to happen in these scenarios where there is a crash on a narrow secondary roads with no road markings and no independent witnesses is that they tend to go 50/50 with each party having to foot the bill for their own repairs.

The Royal Scam

Is there any chance you can have a look at any possible cctv on her route towards you that may show her driving. Long shot I know but you sound like you might have a fight on your hands.

the_syco

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Anyhow, she said that she has no insurance and has a provisional licence, with no one with a full licence sitting beside her.

I skimmed over the replies, so apologies if I missed the answer to my question to the OP.

I'm assuming that the father has an alibi for the time of the crash, and wants you to say that he was the driver so he can prove otherwise.

From friends dealings with MIBI, I don't think you'll be able to repair your car until they assess it. Ring MIBI. Although you'll need to tell your insurance about the crash, do not claim on your own insurance to fix this, as it may affect your NCB.

cup of tea

I see a lot of people suggesting MIBI.The MIBI agreement doesn't cover material damage claims. It would in the case of a personal injuries claim.

Whether there is a policy on the other vehicle is relevant. Where damage is done by a vehicle with an active policy and where it is driven my an uninsured driver, liability lies with the owner of the vehicle/policy under the principle of 'Insurers Concerned'. The insurer may then potentially may or may not seek reimbursement of any payout from the driver of the vehicle.

biko

I think you should pursue the angle that the other driver (the girl) left the scene

Having a car collision with no particular injuries etc is a civil matter.
Leaving the scene of an accident is a crime.

tcawley29

Regardless of the fact that the learner driver was unaccompanied her insurance must pay out to a third party.
They will then claim/attempt to claim the money for your claim from her/the policy holder

ninjarambohd

tcawley29 wrote: »

Regardless of the fact that the learner driver was unaccompanied her insurance must pay out to a third party.
They will then claim/attempt to claim the money for your claim from her/the policy holder

Wait I don't fully get this, do I have to pay her something too?

Henry Ford III

cup of tea wrote: »

I see a lot of people suggesting MIBI.The MIBI agreement doesn't cover material damage claims. It would in the case of a personal injuries claim.

That doesn't tally with my experience.

I got hit by an uninsured driver who attempted a hit and run. Thankfully I got the reg no. Damage to the car was a few thousand € but thankfully I wasn't injured at all.

Gardai located her and the car, my insurance covered the damage but it was fully recovered from the MIBI and my NCB was fully restored with 13 weeks.

tcawley29

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Wait I don't fully get this, do I have to pay her something too?

If the insurance company determine her to be 100% liable it is just her problem and you don't need to worry

Squidgy Black

cup of tea wrote: »

I see a lot of people suggesting MIBI.The MIBI agreement doesn't cover material damage claims. It would in the case of a personal injuries claim.

That's not true. From the MIBI website itself:

"Our principal role is to compensate victims of road traffic accidents caused by uninsured and unidentified vehicles which is regulated by the MIBI Agreement 2009. This Agreement sets out the rights given to persons who sustain damage and/or injuries in a road traffic accident caused by an uninsured vehicle or unidentified vehicle."

Odyssey 2005

Henry Ford III wrote: »

That doesn't tally with my experience.

I got hit by an uninsured driver who attempted a hit and run. Thankfully I got the reg no. Damage to the car was a few thousand € but thankfully I wasn't injured at all.

Gardai located her and the car, my insurance covered the damage but it was fully recovered from the MIBI and my NCB was fully restored with 13 weeks.

100%

osarusan

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Hi everyone. OK so today I had a car accident. To shorten the story I was going over this narrow bridge and another car was coming opposite me. I kept going to the left hand side but she came with a lot of speed and crashed into the front of my car.

Anyhow, she said that she has no insurance and has a provisional licence, with no one with a full licence sitting beside her. I called the guards, but before they arrived the girls dad came and told me to tell the guards that "There were two people in the car, the girl with the full licence was the driver" He also started cussing at me etc.. when I refused to do so.

By the time the guards arrived, the dad made the girl with one of her friends to flee the scene. All I managed to do was to take a photograph of the car they were fleeing away in and a photo of the girl who crashed into me.

When the guards arrived I told him about this situation and he spoke to the girls father. I asked the guard what happens now? He told me he would be in contact with me in a day or two and would get the girl to appear at the gardai station.

Just wondering is this how the procedure is done when the actual driver flee the scene?

I'm a bit confused. Was she by herself in the car? Or was she with a friend?

Because when her dad arrived made her flee the scene with one of her friends - where did this friend come from?

So both her dad and her friend turned up after the accident, and the dad tried to convince you to say that it was her friend (who has a full licence) that was driving?

Anyway, if I understand it correctly, the girl and a friend drove away before the garda arrived...but the girl's dad stayed and talked to the garda?

I think they are pretty limited in terms of what kind of story they can concoct, and I can't think of any reasonable story that would explain the two girls driving away after you had called the gardai, and the dad sticking around to talk to them (especially if it is going to be claimed that the dad was the one driving in the first place).

As somebody else said, they might just try to say it was somebody with a full licence driving the car, and accept responsibility for the accident - to make the whole thing go away as quickly as possible.

Whether or not you would accept that, or want to go down the road of arguing that it was somebody driving without a licence and insurance, is up to you (if they did choose that version of events).

?Cee?view

Squidgy Black wrote: »

That's not true. From the MIBI website itself:

"Our principal role is to compensate victims of road traffic accidents caused by uninsured and unidentified vehicles which is regulated by the MIBI Agreement 2009. This Agreement sets out the rights given to persons who sustain damage and/or injuries in a road traffic accident caused by an uninsured vehicle or unidentified vehicle."

It's not that clear cut. See section 9 at this link:

https://www.mibi.ie/_fileupload/Signed_MIBI_Agreement_29_Jan_09.pdf

ninjarambohd

osarusan wrote: »

I'm a bit confused. Was she by herself in the car? Or was she with a friend?

Because when her dad arrived made her flee the scene with one of her friends - where did this friend come from?

So both her dad and her friend turned up after the accident, and the dad tried to convince you to say that it was her friend (who has a full licence) that was driving?

Anyway, if I understand it correctly, the girl and a friend drove away before the garda arrived...but the girl's dad stayed and talked to the garda?

I think they are pretty limited in terms of what kind of story they can concoct, and I can't think of any reasonable story that would explain the two girls driving away after you had called the gardai, and the dad sticking around to talk to them (especially if it is going to be claimed that the dad was the one driving in the first place).

As somebody else said, they might just try to say it was somebody with a full licence driving the car, and accept responsibility for the accident - to make the whole thing go away as quickly as possible.

Whether or not you would accept that, or want to go down the road of arguing that it was somebody driving without a licence and insurance, is up to you (if they did choose that version of events).

Everything happened so quickly, but from what I remember the other girl came with a different car than the father. All I could do when the dad told both girls to go was to run to them, grab a picture of the car they were fleeing with and a picture of the girl who was the driver who hit my car, the other girl is not visible in the photo as she was in the drivers seat and before I could take a pic of her she was gone.

Odyssey 2005

Op,how many cars were at the scene?. You say she was driving alone,another girl came along in a car,the father came along. Was he driving ? If so how did the damaged car and his vehicle leave ?.

osarusan

So another girl arrived in her own car, then they both left in the friend's car and left the dad behind with the damaged car?

Or they drove off in the damaged car, and left the friend's car?

Was the car the dad originally arrived in also at the scene, or did he arrive there some other way?

ninjarambohd

osarusan wrote: »

So another girl arrived in her own car, then they both left in the friend's car and left the dad behind with the damaged car?

Or they drove off in the damaged car, and left the friend's car?

Was the car the dad originally arrived in also at the scene, or did he arrive there some other way?

No. The dad arrived in a totally different car. Her friend in a totally different car too. The damaged car was left there and the girl fled with the friend.

pm1977x

So how did the Dad explain the spare car to the cops, he couldn't have been driving both!?

johndaman66

ninjarambohd wrote: »

No. The dad arrived in a totally different car. Her friend in a totally different car too. The damaged car was left there and the girl fled with the friend.

Hmm, so I take it that both the damaged car and the car that the father arrived in were parked up at the scene when the Guards arrived? Did the father then claim to the Guards that he was the driver of the damaged car? Did you point out to the Guards that he wasn't and note to them the car he arrived in? Did they run a check on the owner of the undamaged car/ search him for a key if your stories did not concur? Which vehicle did he drive away in after?

CramCycle

pm1977x wrote: »

So how did the Dad explain the spare car to the cops, he couldn't have been driving both!?

This is the bit I don't get why did the OP Not point out the convenience that the father crashed right beside his other car.