Choosing between Public and Private Sector

BookNerd

Hi all
I need some advice and I can't figure out if I am better off staying in my current job (private sector) or taking a new job in the public sector.

The roles are much the same in terms of type of work, both admin based. I have responsibility in terms of deadlines in my current role but the new role would have me responsible for a team with people answering to me.

Hours are similar.

Current job is a ten minute commute, new job is at least 30 minutes each way. Minor compared to some commutes but with small children every minute spare is an advantage.

Current job is a €35k salary, public service job is €30k.

I receive an annual bonus of €1500 plus other benefits which are worth approx €2600.
I get an annual pay increase of 2-4% performance based.
I have a private pension (I'm 37) to which I am currently contributing 8% of my salary and I have approx €15000 accumulated. I hope to increase the contributions in future when I have less financial commitments (dependents).


So obviously a big negative for the public sector job would be the longer commute and ~€10k pay cut. I have roughly worked out that the incremental increases in the public sector will only overtake my current salary plus increases after 10 years. (Not factoring in the other additional benefits).

Are the benefits of a public sector job worth the cost? People keep telling me they are but it's hard to tell. The job security is an obvious factor and I feel there probably is more room for advancement in the public sector but I'm struggling to see anything else and would welcome all advice so I can make an educated decision.

Diceicle

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you're considering a longer commute, with less pay and with additional team management responsibilities?
The money you get over 10 years would be eaten away at by inflation anyway (?)

I'm not seeing an upside to switching to public tbh.

For clarity - I work in the PS and there are benefits.
Pension-wise there's no gain for you there as your contract would be a defined contribution.

However, if you were looking to eventually switch career - this is much easier in the PS and you'd likely not have to take a paycut.
Work / Life balance is a plus - particularly if and when you have kids.

Sleephead

BookNerd wrote: »

Hi all
I need some advice and I can't figure out if I am better off staying in my current job (private sector) or taking a new job in the public sector.

The roles are much the same in terms of type of work, both admin based. I have responsibility in terms of deadlines in my current role but the new role would have me responsible for a team with people answering to me.

Hours are similar.

Current job is a ten minute commute, new job is at least 30 minutes each way. Minor compared to some commutes but with small children every minute spare is an advantage.

Current job is a €35k salary, public service job is €30k.

I receive an annual bonus of €1500 plus other benefits which are worth approx €2600.
I get an annual pay increase of 2-4% performance based.
I have a private pension (I'm 37) to which I am currently contributing 8% of my salary and I have approx €15000 accumulated. I hope to increase the contributions in future when I have less financial commitments (dependents).


So obviously a big negative for the public sector job would be the longer commute and ~€10k pay cut. I have roughly worked out that the incremental increases in the public sector will only overtake my current salary plus increases after 10 years. (Not factoring in the other additional benefits).

Are the benefits of a public sector job worth the cost? People keep telling me they are but it's hard to tell. The job security is an obvious factor and I feel there probably is more room for advancement in the public sector but I'm struggling to see anything else and would welcome all advice so I can make an educated decision.

€30k a year with a team of people answering to you? I’d love to know the substantive grade!?

BookNerd

Diceicle wrote: »

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you're considering a longer commute, with less pay and with additional team management responsibilities?
The money you get over 10 years would be eaten away at by inflation anyway (?)

I'm not seeing an upside to switching to public tbh.

Same. But anyone I've discussed it with has been saying "Public Sector!! Go go go!!"
But I kind of feel that's a old school way of thinking. I just want to make sure that long term I make the right decision.

One other thing I had overlooked was that the sick leave in the Public Sector is much better than what I have in my current job. I had a few weeks off last year in relation to a surgery and was unpaid and relying on social welfare which made things pretty tight. But that would be a rare enough thing (hopefully!) so while it's an advantage, it's not heavily weighted either.

BookNerd

Sleephead wrote: »

€30k a year with a team of people answering to you? I’d love to know the substantive grade!?

Grade 5 I think. Entry level management. Plenty of people above me. Not sure how much "management" would be involved but it is in the job description.
I guess it would depend on the actual environment I'd be going into as to how much would be delegated.

A big factor which you should take into account is the availability of flexible working arrangements, which are phenomenal in the public sector.


Flexi-time: come in at 10am when required, leave at 4pm if necessary. You can stay late/come in early to work up extra hours and convert them to 1.5 days leave max per 4-week period, so a potential extra 19.5 days paid holidays per year.


SWYS: Shorter Working Year Scheme, unpaid extra holidays for 2 - 12 weeks over the year, but you can opt to have your salary docked pro-rata over the year so you still receive a pay cheque when you're off (formerly called term time as it was for parents who had no other option during school holidays, but now open to all)


Work-sharing: Option to work 4-day or 3-day weeks available in a lot of places, should the need arise.


Plus, the training opportunities in certain departments are phenomenal. Getting paid to do a degree during work hours is something I've never heard of in the private sector.

Sleephead

BookNerd wrote: »

Grade 5 I think. Entry level management. Plenty of people above me. Not sure how much "management" would be involved but it is in the job description.
I guess it would depend on the actual environment I'd be going into as to how much would be delegated.

Grade 5s usually in the 42-50k bracket are you sure?

Unusual to enter the PS at that grade too

gordongekko

Sound like it's a eo role

yop

Deleted User wrote: »

A big factor which you should take into account is the availability of flexible working arrangements, which are phenomenal in the public sector.


Flexi-time: come in at 10am when required, leave at 4pm if necessary. You can stay late/come in early to work up extra hours and convert them to 1.5 days leave max per 4-week period, so a potential extra 19.5 days paid holidays per year.


SWYS: Shorter Working Year Scheme, unpaid extra holidays for 2 - 12 weeks over the year, but you can opt to have your salary docked pro-rata over the year so you still receive a pay cheque when you're off (formerly called term time as it was for parents who had no other option during school holidays, but now open to all)


Work-sharing: Option to work 4-day or 3-day weeks available in a lot of places, should the need arise.


Plus, the training opportunities in certain departments are phenomenal. Getting paid to do a degree during work hours is something I've never heard of in the private sector.

My wife had all of that, taking the flexi every month and the 2 weeks at easter.
Training courses paid to travel to them and finishes early.
She has came from 20 yrs in private sector and is in PS for last 2 and thinks its amazing.
Lack of health cover is covered by mine.

If you want a cushty job, set hours with ability to work up time off each month then PS is for you.

Diceicle

In the short term I'm not sure why you'd be going to the PS (or is it the Civil Service?)

As has been pointed out - Grade V starts at 42k and goes to 50. Its somewhat unusual for there to be an open competition for those grades - though not unheard of.

You have in the near-term a better offering in terms of commute and pay in your current role.

PS will give you better work/life arrangements and more flexibility.

Maybe the thing is to think where do you want to be in your career in 5-10 years?

For example, I'm now working in Business Intelligence and Development in the PS - what I started in was nowhere near that type of work but I've moved into that type of role without having to take a paycut to effectively change careers.

Tacklebox

I'm in the public sector myself, and could probably make more money in the private sector.

But the security alone is worth it, I have set hours Monday to Friday 8 to 4 30, Flexi time.

I left the private sector job in 2005 and went into the public sector.
I never looked back, we get all the right tools for the job, training and refreshing courses.
The best of wetgear, when it's raining we catch up with our seedlings and other plant's in glasshouse and Polly tunnels, stocktaking chemicals and fertilizers, sharpening chainsaws etc
I never have to bring my work home, incremental pay rise every year, pension, and I'm working in the park's as I've studied horticulture.
All my fellow student friends were making a lot of money designing and building garden's during the building boom.
I was struggling, still am sometimes but security is preferable to me.

The private sector was in and out,get the job done...

BookNerd

Sorry, to clarify it's Civil Service.

bobbysands81

Don’t fall into the trap thinking that every role in the Civil Service is stress free and cushy. Lower grade roles tend to be far less stressful than higher grade roles.

Although family friendly policies are in place in the CS there is absolutely no guarantee that they are available in your office or that you will get them.

as always it depends on the role

your placement, your team and your immediate line manager are the variables that nobody can predict for you and can pretty quickly eradicate any of the advantages you presume you'd be getting. managing people in the public sector is a task that often brings quite uhhh unique challenges and it can be very stressful and unsupported work.

the pension, for all that it's not what it was, would certainly not be insignificant as an upgrade (youve not mentioned what your current place puts in if anything). if you get in and get moving up the scale early the value of the benefits you accrue would be very difficult to match on an equivalent salary in private sector and that still holds true for single scheme.

im not aware of a grade v that starts at 30 ish k but fair enough, whats the scale go up to?

training and development can be amazing. but again you can be placed somewhere rubbiish and get stuck there too.

if you knew any more about the org/role you could tell us id say we could be more helpful

Diceicle

Just to add - in relation to the 'people management' piece.
Sometimes the specification for the job can be 'ambitious' and in the reality of the role you would never be expected to manage people on a daily basis - or you might have to assume some supervisory responsibility while the managers away. MIght be worthwhile clarifying this unless it is spelled out in black and white in the job spec.

OMM 0000

Almost everything I ever read about working in the public sector is negative.

It seems to be a demoralising place.

I would stick with the private sector.

dvdman1

Definitely stay in the private sector
Cronyism in the public sector is rampant its full of brothers, sisters and cousins that never even did an interview and if they did one, it was already known they'd get the job. Theres generations of incompetent workers who cover 1 thing......you guessed it, their own a**
Do yourself a favour...Private sector is the real world its where everything is at.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Almost everything I ever read about working in the public sector is negative.

It seems to be a demoralising place.

I would stick with the private sector.

have you a minute's experience working in the public sector?

OMM 0000

Deleted User wrote: »

have you a minute's experience working in the public sector?

Yes, I was a contractor in the public sector for 6 months and it was awful. Full of people who've given up on work.

kippy

There are numerous variables however based on what you've said I wouldn't be making the move from where you are.

Managing staff without carrots or sticks as tools is damn near impossible and definitely not worth it for 30K a year, never mind whatever else you'd be expected to do. All you need is one staff member an that "custhy" job gets a hell of a lot more difficult.

Work Sharing and SWYS are only available in certain areas, so this would depend.

If you think about your additional costs:
No Healthcare (Maybe you aren't getting this already)
Extra Commute (fuel/maintenance/time cost)
Additional pension contributions (cannot be specific on this)


I'd try use the offer as a possible way to get something better where you are.

Diceicle

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Almost everything I ever read about working in the public sector is negative.

It seems to be a demoralising place.

I would stick with the private sector.

The Public or Civil Service is far too broad for that type of statement.
Within the public sector you can be everything from a nurse to an accountant to a Programmer.
That would be like saying the Private sector is full of cowboys and bluffers who dont know what they're doing and are out for a quick buck - it would be inaccurate.
OP needs to find out the details of the office or sector he'll be working in and the culture within that office or dept.

beauf

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yes, I was a contractor in the public sector for 6 months and it was awful. Full of people who've given up on work.

Generally a lot of public sector IT projects are full of contractors.
Hard to find someone who isn't.

Lots of barriers to getting things done in the public sector. Much easier when single entity is paying and can dictate terms instantly. Money talks etc.
Its a different dynamic when everyone avoids risk. Its musical chairs where no one will get up off their chair.

Its very varied depending where you work though. Some places due to their management are far more progressive than others. The influence is top down.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yes, I was a contractor in the public sector for 6 months and it was awful. Full of people who've given up on work.

you went from reading about it to having worked in it for a fair period of time in one post.

next post you'll have twenty years done at that rate.

gwan.

beauf

BookNerd wrote: »

...Are the benefits of a public sector job worth the cost? People keep telling me they are but it's hard to tell. The job security is an obvious factor and I feel there probably is more room for advancement in the public sector but I'm struggling to see anything else and would welcome all advice so I can make an educated decision.

I would say the chances of advancement might be better in the public sector.

I not getting the feeling that you need the benefits of work/balance that the Public sector gives you.

OMM 0000

Deleted User wrote: »

you went from reading about it to having worked in it for a fair period of time in one post.

next post you'll have twenty years done at that rate.

gwan.

Almost everything I ever read about working in the public sector is negative.

I was a contractor in the public sector for 6 months and it was awful.

How do these statements contradict each other?

FYI I was at the Valuations Office.

B_ecke_r

imo the security of the Public Sector is worth the change.

plus it's definitely going to be a less stressful job,

flexi hours etc are a huge plus and really wish I had them in my job. I suppose if your kids are nearly grown up this may not be of a huge benefit to you but think maybe then when you have grandkids etc it could be big for you

I am lucky that I can work remotely from home 2 days a week though which cuts down on the commute though,

spurious

Try to avoid any position where you have to deal with the public. It will destroy you.

Snow Garden

BookNerd wrote: »

Sorry, to clarify it's Civil Service.

Make the move. It will be easier, more beneficial and more flexible in the long run. I moved across too and no regrets.

BookNerd

Thanks all. Just to add, my current role has some flexibilty but it's moreso about start/finish time than accruing time off by working longer days.
I have a pension. I contribute x amount and my employer matches it up to a certain amount (currently €1400 pa but it increases in line with salary).

Seems that the benefits would be more long term gain with short term pain so I really need to weigh it up.

I'm also waiting to hear back as to where exactly the position will be based as that will be a big factor in the decision. I know certain areas would be much tougher to work in.

Snow Garden

BookNerd wrote: »

Thanks all. Just to add, my current role has some flexibilty but it's moreso about start/finish time than accruing time off by working longer days.
I have a pension. I contribute x amount and my employer matches it up to a certain amount (currently €1400 pa but it increases in line with salary).

Seems that the benefits would be more long term gain with short term pain so I really need to weigh it up.

I'm also waiting to hear back as to where exactly the position will be based as that will be a big factor in the decision. I know certain areas would be much tougher to work in.

You might need to leave ambition at the door if you join the public sector. Progression is more about years of service and network than ability. Performance appraisals are generally a tick-the-box exercise but you will get your increments no matter what happens.

Some of the inefficiency and 'dossers' will drive you mad at first but you get used to it. Pray you get a decent manager. TIL and Flexitime is also superb. With the generous holidays and TIL you can work up loads of leave if you need it.

AndrewJRenko

Snow Garden wrote: »

You might need to leave ambition at the door if you join the public sector. Progression is more about years of service than ability and network. Performance appraisals are generally a tick-the-box exercise but you will get your increments no matter what happens.

You've noticed the new generation of 40-something SecGens, and similar A/Secs and POs, right? How did they manage to get 'seniority'? Promotions have nothing to do with seniority - the criteria for promotion competitions are set out clearly and implemented by Public Apps Service.


Performance appraisals are as good as the line manager implementing them.

Snow Garden

Only 15 per cent of staff in the Civil Service believe that poor performance is being tackled, according to a major new survey of personnel.

The 2017 Civil Service employment engagement survey found that almost 60 per cent of civil servants maintained that poor performance was not being effectively addressed in their department.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/only-15-of-civil-service-staff-believe-poor-performance-being-tackled-1.3443684

Creol1

Will never understand why people use "PS" as abbreviation for Public Sector...Private Sector has the exact same abbreviation...

beauf

Or where it's actually the CS they are talking about.

Creol1

dvdman1 wrote: »

Definitely stay in the private sector
Cronyism in the public sector is rampant its full of brothers, sisters and cousins that never even did an interview and if they did one, it was already known they'd get the job. Theres generations of incompetent workers who cover 1 thing......you guessed it, their own a**
Do yourself a favour...Private sector is the real world its where everything is at.

This is wholly inaccurate. Recruitment to almost all positions in the Civil Service is carried out centrally by the Public Appointments Service; the first couple of stages of recruitment will generally be blind as to the participant's identity, based on a computer-based assessment in verbal/numerical reasoning, etc. When it comes to interview stage, you will be interviewed by a panel you have never met and your answers will be marked against a clear set of competencies that all candidates have to meet.

If there's anyone who has managed to wrangle a job for their son/daughter through such a stringent system, then well done.

Snow Garden wrote: »

Only 15 per cent of staff in the Civil Service believe that poor performance is being tackled, according to a major new survey of personnel.

The 2017 Civil Service employment engagement survey found that almost 60 per cent of civil servants maintained that poor performance was not being effectively addressed in their department.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/only-15-of-civil-service-staff-believe-poor-performance-being-tackled-1.3443684

That means that they believe underperformance is not being successfully tackled where it takes place; it doesn't imply anything about how frequent or widespread it is.

Returning more directly to the OP's situation, one word of caution I would offer is that the job security, etc., is great, but bear in mind that you have to serve a year-long probationary period first and it is only after that that you will be established.

doc22

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You've noticed the new generation of 40-something SecGens, and similar A/Secs and POs, right? How did they manage to get 'seniority'? Promotions have nothing to do with seniority - the criteria for promotion competitions are set out clearly and implemented by Public Apps Service.


Performance appraisals are as good as the line manager implementing them.

That's terrible for the future, those senior positions will be out of circulation for 20plus years,far less people will have the opportunity to fill those roles, along with open recruitment there's going to be limited movement into the future for internals

Diceicle

doc22 wrote: »

That's terrible for the future, those senior positions will be out of circulation for 20plus years,far less people will have the opportunity to fill those roles, along with open recruitment there's going to be limited movement into the future for internals

That's assuming they stay put.
Good number of very Senior people have shifted to the Private Sector and to the UK in my area.

AndrewJRenko

doc22 wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You've noticed the new generation of 40-something SecGens, and similar A/Secs and POs, right? How did they manage to get 'seniority'? Promotions have nothing to do with seniority - the criteria for promotion competitions are set out clearly and implemented by Public Apps Service.


Performance appraisals are as good as the line manager implementing them.

That's terrible for the future, those senior positions will be out of circulation for 20plus years,far less people will have the opportunity to fill those roles, along with open recruitment there's going to be limited movement into the future for internals

SecGens are on seven year contracts. They're not permanent.

theres still a good percentage of the senior jobs where retirements are looming

besides, you cant complain that good people getting in have limited your chances. thats exactly the attitude that people looking to have a lazy dig at the public service love to hear.

beat the competition on merit. earn your progression. revel in the changing profile of the service you work in and thank your lucky stars that it is changing.

(hey it works for me)

Monife

Diceicle wrote: »

For clarity - I work in the PS and there are benefits.
Pension-wise there's no gain for you there as your contract would be a defined contribution.

This is incorrect. While the new pension scheme (Single Scheme) is not as beneficial as previous public sector pension schemes, it is still defined benefit. However, instead of being based on your final salary, it is based on your career average salary.

Snow Garden wrote: »

You might need to leave ambition at the door if you join the public sector. Progression is more about years of service and network than ability. Performance appraisals are generally a tick-the-box exercise but you will get your increments no matter what happens.

Seniority is long since gone in the Public Service. Progression is now based on meeting the competencies of the required grade, usually by filling out a competency based application form and if you are shortlisted, attending for interview. Some competitions have additional selection exercises such as preparing a paper or presentation.

There is a huge amount of movement in the Public/Civil Service now, including numerous opportunities for promotion. If you have ambition, the necessary skills and experience and are decent at interviews, you can progress quickly. I went from CO to EO to HEO in 4 years. My friend, who started at the same time as me at the same grade, is now an AP.

From my experience, performance appraisals do tend to be a bit of a box-ticking exercise but if you consistently under-perform, you will get a rating of unsatisfactory and will not receive your annual increment. However, I am in the Public Service, not Civil, and I have heard the Civil Service are utilising the performance management system much more.

OP, I moved from the Private Sector to Public and took a €5,000 pay cut at the time. But now I am on €25,000 more than I was in the Private Sector. Flexi-time is a massive benefit, being able to pretty much set your own hours and if you work extra, being able to take up to a day and a half off extra every month. Annual leave also tends to be higher in the Public/Civil Service. And like you said, paid sick leave. You might think you're fairly healthy now but you never know what might happen. You can take up 3 months sick leave on full pay, and then another 3 months on half pay, if you end up needing this. This increases if you have a critical illness to 6 months on full pay, 6 months on half pay.

Other types of special leave too, compassionate leave if a family member dies (20 days for spouse or child, 5 days for a parent/step-parent, sibling, grandparent or in-law, 1 day for uncle/aunt/niece/nephew). Paid force majeure leave (3 days in a 12 month period, no more than 5 days over 3 years). Training opportunities are excellent and usually a facility whereby they pay your fees in advance.

There are more but these are the main ones.

bobbysands81

dvdman1 wrote: »

Definitely stay in the private sector
Cronyism in the public sector is rampant its full of brothers, sisters and cousins that never even did an interview and if they did one, it was already known they'd get the job. Theres generations of incompetent workers who cover 1 thing......you guessed it, their own a**
Do yourself a favour...Private sector is the real world its where everything is at.

This is the typical response of someone who hasn’t a notion about the public sector.

hardybuck

doc22 wrote: »

That's terrible for the future, those senior positions will be out of circulation for 20plus years,far less people will have the opportunity to fill those roles, along with open recruitment there's going to be limited movement into the future for internals

A Secretary General can only remain in their post for a 7 year term.

Snow Garden

Monife wrote: »

From my experience, performance appraisals do tend to be a bit of a box-ticking exercise but if you consistently under-perform, you will get a rating of unsatisfactory and will not receive your annual increment.

I have been in the PS several years and I never heard on one person getting unsatisfactory. I have never seen an increment being withheld.

I know a few who should have

Technocentral

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Almost everything I ever read about working in the public sector is negative.

It seems to be a demoralising place.

I would stick with the private sector.

Some people like a better work/life balance?

hardybuck

Snow Garden wrote: »

I have been in the PS several years and I never heard on one person getting unsatisfactory. I have never seen an increment being withheld.

I know a few who should have

Over 320,000 people work in the Public Service. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Technocentral

hardybuck wrote: »

Snow Garden wrote: »

I have been in the PS several years and I never heard on one person getting unsatisfactory. I have never seen an increment being withheld.

I know a few who should have

Over 320,000 people work in the Public Service. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

The new intake are a lot more conscientious it has to be said, the lazy older ones will be gone soon enough. They started work in a different Ireland, that Ireland is gone.

hardybuck

Technocentral wrote: »

The new intake are a lot more conscientious it has to be said, the lazy older ones will be gone soon enough. They started work in a different Ireland, that Ireland is gone.

Professionalisation of HR has also resulted in more action being taken.

In the Civil Service a considerable number of new staff don't make it through probation.

The system just demands more from the business now. In the olden days they could write to you and it could go into a drawer for a couple of weeks before a letter of response would go out. These days you've got the media, the public, the political system all prodding you for information non-stop, so while there are obviously some people in a big organisation who aren't brilliant, there's less hiding places.

Crock Rock

Public Sector all the way.
Excellent pension benefits, no performance reviews, exorbinant pay rates, essentially un-fireable, what's not to like?

Snow Garden

hardybuck wrote: »

Over 320,000 people work in the Public Service. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

A quick google revealed that 0.25% got Unsatisfactory in 2016. It's not clear whether increments were withheld from those folks.

800 out of 320,000 so. Seems like a reasonable bell curve

AndrewJRenko

Crock Rock wrote: »

Public Sector all the way.
Excellent pension benefits, no performance reviews, exorbinant pay rates, essentially un-fireable, what's not to like?

The fact that you got most of it wrong?

beauf

A lot of Performance appraisals are a box ticking exercise, or , manipulated. Which is why so many just give them lip service. So I would be wary about putting too much faith them.

If you can't fire someone, there are ways of making life difficult and putting them out to pasture.