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What is VDSL, and who provides?

  • 07-03-2019 8:21pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44


    Hi guys.

    We seem to be grinding down to the fact that we're about 0.7km from a VDSL enabled box, and that Airwire could hook us up. (just north of Naas)

    Struggling to understand the options.

    VDSL is apparently copper wire based from the exchange (so Aer presumably have a hand in it), but a faster technology. It slows rapidly with distance but according to Airwire should give us a safe 20Mbps at our distance.

    Do service providers other than Airwire offer VDSL, and if so under what names?

    What packages or options?

    The abuse of terminology by providers (not Airwire) badly muddies the water.

    Wary of signing up to a contract to find the performance falls away with time.

    What has been the experience of VDSL here?

    How might it compare in performance to 4G mobile broadband from an at times fairly heavily loaded mast?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    I'm not sure who provides it in Ireland - I'd guess Eir's fibre is based on it like here in the UK where VDSL is BT's "fibre" package which gets up to about 60mbps iirc, it's basically fibre to the cab and then copper to the premises. ADSL is standard broadband which maxes out at about 16mbps. All of these speeds are distance dependent. If you have a good connection, it will blitz 4G which should never be considered unless properly stuck for options.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    VDSL = eFibre(Not efibre ultimate) = FTTC.

    Here its specifically annex 17a with vectoring support for up to 100Mb at 0-100m from the cab and dropping off thereafter.


    OpenEir sell it to ISPs who sell it to you. VDSL from Sky, Eir, Vodafone, Airwire, IFA or anyone else will be the same service, same speeds. Definitely prefer a 700m run which will be north of 20Mb (airwire are being conservative) to 4G midband.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/where-to-buy/

    Pretty much every ISP provides it under various names eFibre from eir being the most recognisable. They get away with calling it fibre or Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) because there is fibre at the cabinet or exchange but the link to your home is over copper.

    A stable VDSL line at 20Mb should be more reliable than a 4G connection in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 hadenoughofit


    Thank you guys, that's a big help. Think we will go with it on Airwire.

    It seemed likely that since it seemed to be the infrastructure that most providers should have it - not that you would know from the terminology they use.

    I was actually rather impressed by the factual and grounded discussion it was possible to have with the Airwire sales guy - it compared very well with the carry on of most of the others I've spoken to at different stages.

    Hopefully it'll translate into a decent level of ongoing service provision and support too...


  • Company Representative Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Airwire: MartinL


    Hi,

    we are just honest and call a shoe, a shoe. If you read the box under VDSL on our products page: https://www.airwire.ie/index.php/products it explains, that it is "fibre to the cabinet" = FTTC. But it is ... at the end of the day .. a service provided on copper.

    As others have said, it's mostly OpenEIR providing it and there are a good few providers offering it through them, we being one of them.

    The speed you get depends on how far you are from the cabinet, that your phone line is connected to and how good the line is. But we'll endaevour to set you at the highest profile possible. And if you only can get 50 Mbit/s or less and don't need unlimited usage, we even offer you a package, that costs 9 EUR less.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 hadenoughofit


    Thanks for that Martin.

    We've concluded we're going to give it a try.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Hi,

    we are just honest and call a shoe, a shoe. If you read the box under VDSL on our products page: https://www.airwire.ie/index.php/products it explains, that it is "fibre to the cabinet" = FTTC. But it is ... at the end of the day .. a service provided on copper.

    As others have said, it's mostly OpenEIR providing it and there are a good few providers offering it through them, we being one of them.

    The speed you get depends on how far you are from the cabinet, that your phone line is connected to and how good the line is. But we'll endaevour to set you at the highest profile possible. And if you only can get 50 Mbit/s or less and don't need unlimited usage, we even offer you a package, that costs 9 EUR less.


    Hi, Martin, I measured and I live less than 1KM from the local fibre cabinet in my new home, but eir have told me it is not "commercially viable" for me to have Fibre Broadband and they could only promise me speeds of up to 8MPBS which is well below what I need

    I live in a blue area on the broadband map but my house is amber as is the many others on my road ( including a few Businesses)

    Would VDSL be an option for me?

    I'm currently using wireless and the contention rates at peak hours make it at times unusable

    Edit* Just to add im in north west Donegal


  • Company Representative Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Airwire: MartinL


    Hi, 1km is along distance on VDSL. At that distance all you can get is 20-28 Mbit/s ... and that is only, if the copper is perfect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Hi, 1km is along distance on VDSL. At that distance all you can get is 20-28 Mbit/s ... and that is only, if the copper is perfect.

    I spoke to one of your reps today, I would take half of that as long as it is consistent.

    as right now I'm getting anything between 15- 40 Mbit/s during the day with Rural WiFi then 4-5 Mbit/s at night when it is congested which is when I need it the most in this household.

    So I have organised with one of your reps to send someone out to see what I can potentially get, hopefully we can get something in place before my trial with Rural WiFi runs out


  • Company Representative Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Airwire: MartinL


    Hi,

    that's no problem. We will obviously try and see, what we can get you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    Hi, 1km is along distance on VDSL. At that distance all you can get is 20-28 Mbit/s ... and that is only, if the copper is perfect.

    sorry, I think I've been confused by the language here is Mbit/s the same as MPBS ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    sorry, I think I've been confused by the language here is Mbit/s the same as MPBS ??

    I have never heard of MPBS before and have no idea what it could stand for.

    Broadband is almost always measured in Mbit/second(or Mb, lower case b)

    Sometimes file size or transfers will be measured in Mbytes/second(or MB upper case B)
    It would be unusual for an ISP to quote your speeds in megabytes and not megabits

    8 bits in a byte so 8mbit/s = 1 Mbyte/s


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    tuxy wrote: »
    I have never heard of MPBS before and have no idea what it could stand for.

    Broadband is almost always measured in Mbit/second(or Mb, lower case b)

    Sometimes file size or transfers will be measured in Mbytes/second(or MB upper case B)
    It would be unusual for an ISP to quote your speeds in megabytes and not megabits

    8 bits in a byte so 8mbit/s = 1 Mbyte/s

    hi I appreciate the answer
    I'm just not very clued beyond the basics when it comes to this, I'm going by the speeds you get on speedtest . net where it comes up as Mbps

    so what I'm asking is the above rate that I was quoted of 20-28 Mbit/s the same as 20- 28 Mbps as it would appear on speedtest (in a my own confused & convoluted way)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    oranbhoy67 wrote: »
    so what I'm asking is the above rate that I was quoted of 20-28 Mbit/s the same as 20- 28 Mbps as it would appear on speedtest (in a my own confused & convoluted way)


    Yes Mbps is the exact same thing as Mbit/s both mean megabits per second and I completely understand how so many acronyms that may or may not mean the same thing can be confusing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭oranbhoy67


    tuxy wrote: »
    Yes Mbps is the exact same thing as Mbit/s both mean megabits per second and I completely understand how so many acronyms that may or may not mean the same thing can be confusing.

    thanks a mill

    I made the mistake of googling it and was lead to a site that led me to believe that they were different


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66 ✭✭AdrianLM


    Hi,

    we are just honest and call a shoe, a shoe. If you read the box under VDSL on our products page: https://www.airwire.ie/index.php/products it explains, that it is "fibre to the cabinet" = FTTC. But it is ... at the end of the day .. a service provided on copper.

    As others have said, it's mostly OpenEIR providing it and there are a good few providers offering it through them, we being one of them.

    The speed you get depends on how far you are from the cabinet, that your phone line is connected to and how good the line is. But we'll endaevour to set you at the highest profile possible. And if you only can get 50 Mbit/s or less and don't need unlimited usage, we even offer you a package, that costs 9 EUR less.

    MartinL, Hopefully you will see this an respond. What is the attenuation for VDSL i.e. if the copper was in good shape what speed would you expect to get after 1 km, 2km etc? According to google maps I'm 6km from the exchange.


  • Company Representative Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Airwire: MartinL


    AdrianLM wrote: »
    MartinL, Hopefully you will see this an respond. What is the attenuation for VDSL i.e. if the copper was in good shape what speed would you expect to get after 1 km, 2km etc? According to google maps I'm 6km from the exchange.

    VDSL can only reach 2km from the cabinet or exchange, depending on where your phone line is connected.

    These are the distances and speeds expected from a stable VDSL line on OpenEIRs infrastructure:

    100m - 100M/2-20M
    300m - 85M/2-20M
    450m - 80M/2-20M
    525m - 70M/2-20M
    600m - 60M/2-20M
    650m - 50M/2-16M
    750m - 43M/2-16M
    750m - 40M/2-16M
    850m - 34M/2-16M
    1000m - 28M/2-16M
    1000m - 20M/2-10M
    1200m - 20M/2-8M
    1300m - 18M/1-7M
    1500m - 12M/256k-1M
    1750m - 10M/256k-1M
    2000m - 4M/256k-1M

    So unless there is a cabinet nearer to you and your phoneline goes through said cabinet, you will never get VDSL, I'm afraid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59 ✭✭kevinbad2010


    VDSL can only reach 2km from the cabinet or exchange, depending on where your phone line is connected.

    These are the distances and speeds expected from a stable VDSL line on OpenEIRs infrastructure:

    100m - 100M/2-20M
    ...
    ...
    ..


    So unless there is a cabinet nearer to you and your phoneline goes through said cabinet, you will never get VDSL, I'm afraid.

    Hey there I was wondering what the speeds would be for around 200m from the cabinet, I calculated the distance to the new house i'm moving to soon and the cabinet seems to be around 140m to the house.

    also are the phone lines overhead on the poles? or underground?

    Thanks in advance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    The phone line from the house may not be going to that cabinet. Only a provider can answer that question for you.

    And phonelines can be over ground, but they can also be under ground. Varies a lot from area to area.

    /M


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭spindex


    Hi guys, quick question,

    I can get vdsl broadband (up to 100Mbits/s) Available at maximum 7M/1M
    My neighbor can get vdsl broadband (up to 100Mbits/s) Available at maximum 70M/20M
    I know what the 100Mbits/s means, what do the other numbers mean ? Who would have the better broadband?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,530 ✭✭✭jmcc


    spindex wrote: »
    Hi guys, quick question,

    I can get vdsl broadband (up to 100Mbits/s) Available at maximum 7M/1M
    My neighbor can get vdsl broadband (up to 100Mbits/s) Available at maximum 70M/20M
    I know what the 100Mbits/s means, what do the other numbers mean ? Who would have the better broadband?

    70Mb/s download and 20 Mb/s upload is the better one. The other is just 7 Mb/s download and 1 Mb/s upload. While the profile may be 70/20, those speeds may not be reached in practice. Compared to ADSL, VDSL is quite stable and consistent as the distances are shorter. VDSL is to the nearest cabinet whereas ADSL is to the nearest exchange.

    Regards...jmcc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,969 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    spindex wrote: »
    I can get vdsl broadband (up to 100Mbits/s) Available at maximum 7M/1M
    My neighbor can get vdsl broadband (up to 100Mbits/s) Available at maximum 70M/20M
    I know what the 100Mbits/s means, what do the other numbers mean ? Who would have the better broadband?

    1 and 20 Mbps are the upload speeds, your neighbour has the faster speeds. Your quoted speeds would indicate you're at the max limit for FFTC/VDSL at almost 2km from the exchange. Is you neighbour connected to a different exchange/cabinet as his speeds indicate he's much closer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭spindex


    The 2 houses are joined together!
    The Cush wrote: »
    1 and 20 Mbps are the upload speeds, your neighbour has the faster speeds. Your quoted speeds would indicate you're at the max limit for FFTC/VDSL at almost 2km from the exchange. Is you neighbour connected to a different exchange/cabinet as his speeds indicate he's much closer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,969 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    spindex wrote: »
    The 2 houses are joined together!

    Do you currently have an active phone line?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    spindex wrote: »
    Hi guys, quick question,

    I can get vdsl broadband (up to 100Mbits/s) Available at maximum 7M/1M
    My neighbor can get vdsl broadband (up to 100Mbits/s) Available at maximum 70M/20M
    I know what the 100Mbits/s means, what do the other numbers mean ? Who would have the better broadband?

    There probably never was an active VDSL line at your house, so the speeds are that low, because it never has been tested.

    Once you order, the internet provider can run a sync test 24-48 hours afterwards and then set the speed to max.

    That's a common enough scenario.

    There is another possibility though, that while your neighbor is wired to a local cab, your line goes to the exchange and due to the longer distance can't get the speeds. A knowledgable provider should be able to predict and confirm, which of the two is the case.

    /M


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭spindex


    The Cush wrote: »
    Do you currently have an active phone line?

    I have a phone socket, but I dont have a phone connected to it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,969 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    spindex wrote: »
    I have a phone socket, but I dont have a phone connected to it.

    In that case Marlow's reply applies as you don't have an active line to test.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭joe123


    Is there a way to test this before signing up (outside of the usual speed checkers) on vodafone or Airwire?

    Reason I ask is, when I first moved into my house all we could get was DSL speeds of ~10Mb/0.6 but they fluctuate and die a death if a download is taking place etc.

    Half way through I was told by a neighbour they enabled the cabinet for my estate BUT the cabinet was still ~1.5km from the house so speed checkers tell me speeds of up to 15Mb/3Mb. Vodafone refused to switch me over to it unless I entered a new (more expensive contract).

    My contract on vodafones DSL is coming to an end in the new year, so if I knew I could stay on a relatively cheap package while I wait for NBI I would, the alternative is pay Lightnet 55 euro a month + 100 euro installation for speeds of ~15-20Mb on WISP.

    Id settle for VDSL if I could get consistent speeds of ~15mb and 3 up (and a solid ping)

    Should say I checked my attenuation in the router settings and it comes up at 23.5 :/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,969 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    joe123 wrote: »
    Is there a way to test this before signing up (outside of the usual speed checkers) on vodafone or Airwire?

    Aren't Airwire/Vodafone etc. just giving you the prequal line test stats open-eir carries out regularly, up to 15 Mbps would be correct for a cabinet 1.5 kms away

    speed vs. distance (line length from cabinet or exchange)

    untitled2.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭joe123


    The Cush wrote: »
    Aren't Airwire/Vodafone etc. just giving you the prequal line test stats open-eir carries out regularly, up to 15 Mbps would be correct for a cabinet 1.5 kms away

    speed vs. distance (line length from cabinet or exchange)

    untitled2.jpg

    Yeah I suppose I was hoping those line speed tests would give a rough estimate and I could expect more.

    I ran my line attenuation on one of those sites that determines line attenuation to distance and it came in at 1.7km.

    Its possible my DSL speed of ~10Mb could end up worse than that if I switch over to the FTTC so :/


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