Upgrading cctv cameras

DrPhilG

Hi all

I have a CCTV system, about 4 years old. The camera quality isn't overly impressive and I'm considering an upgrade.

The current cameras are Qvis 20fps@3MP (2048×1536) IP.

Had a guy out to quote for a better camera and he suggested:
Dahua HD Camera 12 volt Infra Red External Day/Night Box Dome Camera, 700 TVL c/w Varifocal 2.8-12mm 1/3 “ Sony Lens

Unless I'm totally picking things up wrong (quite possible) isn't that a step back? TVL rating indicates an analogue camera and also much lower quality than a 3mp IP camera?

altor

DrPhilG wrote: »

Hi all

I have a CCTV system, about 4 years old. The camera quality isn't overly impressive and I'm considering an upgrade.

The current cameras are Qvis 20fps@3MP (2048×1536) IP.

Had a guy out to quote for a better camera and he suggested:
Dahua HD Camera 12 volt Infra Red External Day/Night Box Dome Camera, 700 TVL c/w Varifocal 2.8-12mm 1/3 “ Sony Lens

Unless I'm totally picking things up wrong (quite possible) isn't that a step back? TVL rating indicates an analogue camera and also much lower quality than a 3mp IP camera?

Id recommend getting a few more quotes if that is what he is offering.
700TVL
Must be looking to offload old stock.

alta stare

Dahua and Qvis use the same horrible GUI. HIKvision or Hiwatch by HIKvision is alot better.

DrPhilG

Thanks, any particular models I should look for?

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

Thanks, any particular models I should look for?

For a domestic setting 4mp cameras and machine are ideal. How many cameras are you wanting to upgrade?

DrPhilG

alta stare wrote: »

For a domestic setting 4mp cameras and machine are ideal. How many cameras are you wanting to upgrade?

I have 4 but I'm considering adding a 5th.

I'm tempted to do the upgrade myself since most of the wiring is already in place. Plus it's a bungalow so wiring is not hard.

The networking side of things is where I'd fall flat though.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

I have 4 but I'm considering adding a 5th.

I'm tempted to do the upgrade myself since most of the wiring is already in place. Plus it's a bungalow so wiring is not hard.

The networking side of things is where I'd fall flat though.

Ah yeah if you can give it a go then why not especially with the cabling being there already.

The networking is not that hard. Plenty of guides online or here.

DrPhilG

alta stare wrote: »

Ah yeah if you can give it a go then why not especially with the cabling being there already.

The networking is not that hard. Plenty of guides online or here.

Any suggestions in the hardware? I need a new recorder too. The one I have is only 4 channel, and also a real pain in the ass in terms of user unfriendliness.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

Any suggestions in the hardware? I need a new recorder too. The one I have is only 4 channel, and also a real pain in the ass in terms of user unfriendliness.

The link below has the Hiwatch range. Iv installed some and it is good stuff. It is the lower range of their gear aimed at the domestic market but it is still good stuff. Easy to use and a better GUI than Qvis and Dahua.

https://www.freetv.ie/cctv/ip/nvrs/


They have HIKvision gear aswell but you need to login to see the prices for them.

DrPhilG

https://www.freetv.ie/ip-cctv-systems/

This looks good alright.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

https://www.freetv.ie/ip-cctv-systems/

This looks good alright.

Yeah it would be. Iv put that range in for people and there isnt a massive difference compared to the pro range in a domestic setting.

DrPhilG

alta stare wrote: »

Yeah it would be. Iv put that range in for people and there isnt a massive difference compared to the pro range in a domestic setting.

I do have a pretty big bungalow in the country, big yard etc. Probably 20-25 metres from the house to the gate etc.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

I do have a pretty big bungalow in the country, big yard etc. Probably 20-25 metres from the house to the gate etc.

You have a camera on your gate or are you putting one out there?

DrPhilG

alta stare wrote: »

You have a camera on your gate or are you putting one out there?

Not on the gate unfortunately, would have to run cable down there and it would be a pain.

But I would like one on the front corner of the house looking towards it.

NIMAN

DrPhilG wrote: »

Not on the gate unfortunately, would have to run cable down there and it would be a pain.

But I would like one on the front corner of the house looking towards it.

Phil

I would have thought that would have been the No1 location for a camera to begin with. To have 4 in place and none covering the entrance seems strange.

Did you install it or was it previous owner?

DrPhilG

NIMAN wrote: »

Phil

I would have thought that would have been the No1 location for a camera to begin with. To have 4 in place and none covering the entrance seems strange.

Did you install it or was it previous owner?

The gate is 25m from the house with no ducting in place, and no way to lay any without chewing up the concrete.

A camera on the house pointing towards the gate is as good as it gets.

I had it installed by an engineer from Derry. With hindsight I wouldn't recommend the guy.

DrPhilG

Currently there is a camera on the back of the house, I want one on the front corner (blue spot) facing down.

Excuse the lighting, that's the only picture showing the house and gate that I could find at 1am.

NIMAN

DrPhilG wrote: »

The gate is 25m from the house with no ducting in place, and no way to lay any without chewing up the concrete.

A camera on the house pointing towards the gate is as good as it gets.

I had it installed by an engineer from Derry. With hindsight I wouldn't recommend the guy.

Yeah, wasn't advocating digging up anything, but a camera where you have your circle, why wasn't that done as one of your 4 initially?

As for the installer, feel free to PM me his name so I know who to avoid;)

DrPhilG

NIMAN wrote: »

Yeah, wasn't advocating digging up anything, but a camera where you have your circle, why wasn't that done as one of your 4 initially?

As for the installer, feel free to PM me his name so I know who to avoid;)

I don't honestly remember, there is one on that front corner but it's pointing across the front of the house.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

Not on the gate unfortunately, would have to run cable down there and it would be a pain.

But I would like one on the front corner of the house looking towards it.

Ah right was wondering is all. Up where you have it marked is a good spot for it.

uck51js9zml2yt

Don't forget the "boards" discount of 7.5%

Reati

I use Reolink. Plug and play. You’ll be able to do it all yourself.

Irish_peppa

alta stare wrote: »

Dahua and Qvis use the same horrible GUI. HIKvision or Hiwatch by HIKvision is alot better.

I was recommended a QVIS / DAHUA DVR by installer
https://www.amazon.ca/Qvis-Surveillance-Resolution-BlackBerry-Detection/dp/B005I63WOM
I was planning to get a COBRA DVR as i allready have their twilight cameras installed
https://cctvdirect.co.uk/products/cctv-systems/cobra-hdtvi-solutions/cobra-dvr-solutions/16ch-cobra-compact-hdt-h/

but installer said his QVIS was way better and his was the same price..... Oh god how wrong he was. i have perfect internet 360mb yet the DVR needs constant resetting, jerky live feed, random resets. jerky replay.
A BLOODY PAIN. if you log in and out too many it locks up too.
My mate has a Hikvision DVR with same twilight CCTV direct cameras as me but the playback and feed is outstanding. no jerkiness he has not even rebooted the system for 4 months !!!!!

If you see DAHUA or QVIS Run in my opinion.

I will be upgrading mine soon too

Does anyone know what system the UK Cobra DVR's use.? Would the HIKVISION be a step above the COBRA GUI?? Has anyone here used the COBRA DVR?

uck51js9zml2yt

DrPhilG wrote: »

https://www.freetv.ie/ip-cctv-systems/

This looks good alright.

Ordered on Friday and it arrived today.

DrPhilG

Chloe Fierce Fleece wrote: »

Ordered on Friday and it arrived today.

Let me know how it goes.

As far as cabling and physical installation goes, I'll have no issues.

It's the networking side I'd struggle with. App setup etc. Does the company have an online help setup or anything? Or even phone support?

Also I really need to get my fibre broadband setup completed. I have a poxy 5mb line that rarely gets above 3mb. Area is now fibre enabled though but I just need to get some ducting sorted for the line.

listermint

What would be the difference between those expensive systems and something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/ANNKE-Simplified-Weatherproof-Smartphone-Control/dp/B07CSN4TMM/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Annke+CCTV+4MP&qid=1552319945&s=gateway&sr=8-3

I have an annke model myself not 4MP one but i find my system to be great. image quality is very good and alerts operate fantastically. I have mine integrated with Slack.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

Let me know how it goes.

As far as cabling and physical installation goes, I'll have no issues.

It's the networking side I'd struggle with. App setup etc. Does the company have an online help setup or anything? Or even phone support?

Also I really need to get my fibre broadband setup completed. I have a poxy 5mb line that rarely gets above 3mb. Area is now fibre enabled though but I just need to get some ducting sorted for the line.

Networking is easy to do. Who is your broadband provider?

Your upload is more important than your download when it comes to cctv.

DrPhilG

alta stare wrote: »

Networking is easy to do. Who is your broadband provider?

Your upload is more important than your download when it comes to cctv.

I'm with Eir. Just did a speed test and got 3.31 down, 0.29 up.

I suspect that networking is only easy if you know how!

I am going to get my broadband sorted though. Fibre is the same price as I'm currently paying for muck so madness not to get the ducting done and get the install..

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'm with Eir. Just did a speed test and got 3.31 down, 0.29 up.

I suspect that networking is only easy if you know how!

I am going to get my broadband sorted though. Fibre is the same price as I'm currently paying for muck so madness not to get the ducting done and get the install..

Upload is poor alright.

Well we can help you here with the networking whenever you get sorted.

DrPhilG

Much appreciated. I think I will have a go at upgrading by myself.

The one linked to earlier:
https://www.freetv.ie/ip-cctv-systems/

Would you say that's the best option? I don't mind spending a little more for a better system.

My current cameras struggle to read my own number plate when I'm parked outside my house.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

Much appreciated. I think I will have a go at upgrading by myself.

The one linked to earlier:
https://www.freetv.ie/ip-cctv-systems/

Would you say that's the best option? I don't mind spending a little more for a better system.

My current cameras struggle to read my own number plate when I'm parked outside my house.

It says in one bit that the cameras have a 4mm lens then down further that they are 2.8mm. Before you get cameras just check that they are what you want. 2.8mm have a very good field of view. Its what id go for.

DrPhilG

Anyone have thoughts on something like this?

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-power/cat6outdoor100m/category-6-cable-outdoor-100m/dp/CB14780

I could in theory mount cameras on the garage and at the front gate using this, without the need to dig up concrete etc.

The only place I will have a route across the concrete is at a 1m section at the side of the house where there is a join in the concrete slabs. I'll be digging a track there and burying some duct for the broadband to come up the side of the house.

I could run a few 100m cat 6 cables out the same route and then bury them along the inside of the kerb stones to reach those hard to get places.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

Anyone have thoughts on something like this?

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-power/cat6outdoor100m/category-6-cable-outdoor-100m/dp/CB14780

I could in theory mount cameras on the garage and at the front gate using this, without the need to dig up concrete etc.

The only place I will have a route across the concrete is at a 1m section at the side of the house where there is a join in the concrete slabs. I'll be digging a track there and burying some duct for the broadband to come up the side of the house.

I could run a few 100m cat 6 cables out the same route and then bury them along the inside of the kerb stones to reach those hard to get places.

When burying the cables keep them protected inside electroflex or something like that. That would be fine.

DrPhilG

Just dug out my original CCTV quote from years ago.

Current cameras from that installation are:
*Qvis 1/3 3mp
*20fps@3mp or 30fps @1080p
*3.6mm fixed lens
Max IR LED length 20m

How does that new system compare to it?

https://www.freetv.ie/ip-cctv-systems

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

Just dug out my original CCTV quote from years ago.

Current cameras from that installation are:
*Qvis 1/3 3mp
*20fps@3mp or 30fps @1080p
*3.6mm fixed lens
Max IR LED length 20m

How does that new system compare to it?

https://www.freetv.ie/ip-cctv-systems

3.6mm lens are too narrow to catch anything bar a door entrance/porch/hallway etc.

The IR on Qvis isnt great either.

In this day and age the lowest mp rating id go with would be 4. To be fair 3 even 2mp is still worth going for but the difference in price is small now compared to a few years ago.

That link isnt working.

Edit; link works in quoted post.

DrPhilG

alta stare wrote: »

In this day and age the lowest mp rating id go with would be 4. To be fair 3 even 2mp is still worth going for but the difference in price is small now compared to a few years ago.

Thanks. Can you get much higher than 4 without breaking the bank? The kit in that link is €640, is there a noticeable improvement if you go higher in mp? If I'm fitting it myself I could stretch closer to €1k as that was my budget for having a professional installation.

alta stare

There would be a difference but in my opinion why bother going higher than 4\5mp if it is only for a domestic setting? Also the higher the mp the lower the recording space obviously that is also dependant on the amount of cameras.

The kit you linked would be ideal for a domestic setting. You dont need to bust the bank for it either so i would not be over thinking what you want to do or spend.

DrPhilG

Could you recommend a bullet style camera that would be compatible with that system?

I've measured up and its 60m from the recorder to the gate pillar so I'd like to put a camera down there facing the entrance.

I don't think the dome would work well for the location.

DrPhilG

This would be my planned location.



Looking towards the opposite pillar and the gate. Am I right in thinking that there are no legal reasons not to mount a camera there? It would probably capture a bit of the road going past.

Something like this maybe?
https://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/hiwatch-by-hikvision-thc-b230-3mp-2-8mm-bullet-camera-2693.html

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

This would be my planned location.



Looking towards the opposite pillar and the gate. Am I right in thinking that there are no legal reasons not to mount a camera there? It would probably capture a bit of the road going past.

Something like this maybe?
https://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/hiwatch-by-hikvision-thc-b230-3mp-2-8mm-bullet-camera-2693.html

Sorry i may be picking you up wrong but is it on the piller that you want to put the bullet?

DrPhilG

alta stare wrote: »

Sorry i may be picking you up wrong but is it on the piller that you want to put the bullet?

Yes, x marks the spot.

DrPhilG

I can run cable down to the pillar and up the side, around the underside of the pillar top and then mount the camera at the X.

alta stare

Will it not be too close to the gate? Why would you not put a turrett at the front of the pillar? Also are you going to leave the cable exposed???

DrPhilG

Cable would be ducted up to the point of installation.

Mounted on the top corner of the pillar, the gate shouldn't get in the way. I don't fancy a turret there for a few reasons. I don't want the neighbours to feel uncomfortable thinking that they're being watched all the way up the road if they're walking by. Whereas a bullet aimed only at the entrance isn't so intimidating.

Also it would be a bit more of an eyesore mounted on the outside of the pillar rather than tucked away on the inside.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

Cable would be ducted up to the point of installation.

Mounted on the top corner of the pillar, the gate shouldn't get in the way. I don't fancy a turret there for a few reasons. I don't want the neighbours to feel uncomfortable thinking that they're being watched all the way up the road if they're walking by. Whereas a bullet aimed only at the entrance isn't so intimidating.

Also it would be a bit more of an eyesore mounted on the outside of the pillar rather than tucked away on the inside.

A bullet would look out of place on the piller. Also the camera type ie bullet or turret is irrelevant regarding how far up the road it sees. Its the lens not the body which looks up the road. I think you might regret putting a bullet on your pier. It will stick out like a sore thumb.

DrPhilG

alta stare wrote: »

A bullet would look out of place on the piller. Also the camera type ie bullet or turret is irrelevant regarding how far up the road it sees. Its the lens not the body which looks up the road.

You and I know that, but a neighbour walking up the road would not know if they're being watched or not.

Country folk are funny about such things.

I suppose I could put a turret on the inside of the pillar where the x is. A bit less intrusive.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

You and I know that, but a neighbour walking up the road would not know if they're being watched or not.

Country folk are funny about such things.

I suppose I could put a turret on the inside of the pillar where the x is. A bit less intrusive.

Would your neighbours really give a toss? A 2.8mm lens would be ideal for your gate area as it will also catch the area in front of your gate. I wouldnt be worrying about your neighbours. You are rural arent you so its not like your camera will be intruding directly onto someone elses property.

If you have a bullet sticking out off that pier it will be very noticeable and in fact it could be vandalised far quicker than a turret. Trust me a bullet on your gate pier is a bad idea.

Also i forgot to mention in my previous posts to make sure and get some back boxes for the cameras so the connections can be housed. The HIK range have nice tidy back boxes.

DrPhilG

I'll only need that box for the gate one won't I? The ones on the house will be mounted on the soffit so the cables will be in the roof space.

alta stare

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'll only need that box for the gate one won't I? The ones on the house will be mounted on the soffit so the cables will be in the roof space.

Yep. Or a junction box will do. The back boxes are better though.

DrPhilG

CCTV kit arrived today, I'll get a play around with it later.

DrPhilG

In the meantime, the installer who previously quoted me for Dahua 700tvl analogue cameras, has now come back and offered me an "upgrade" vs-406snh-2

Unless I'm badly mistaken, isn't that just a different brand, but still a 700tvl analogue camera? In fact from googling it only seems to be a 540tvl but his quote states 700.