Why is it so hard to say "I was wrong" online?

aloneforever99

This story is the best and worst of the internet combined.

https://www.indy100.com/article/vagina-vulva-mansplaining-twitter-paul-bullen-8804596?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1DU_RPRGp_nofiC6FQgqllU4QeZIzvNsXMUkoThxV9JnzbNdMKeaNwoOk#Echobox=1551543669

Basically, under a Guardian story about a woman who photographed 100 vulvas, a man wrote "the correct word is vagina". He was wrong. But he can't admit it, and he has come up with an explanation that involves redefining the word 'correct' and claiming common usage is more important than what's actually literally correct.

The twitter threads are hilarious.

But it got me thinking about all the bajilions of arguments that happen online every day, and how even when presented with evidence to the contrary, people stay entrenched in their views.

Why is it so hard to say "Sh1t... I got that wrong."

Samuel T. Cogley

Because people on the interwebz are known for being magnanimous.

TheValeyard

Perhaps it's a maturity thing.

I was far more belligerent (not just online, but in general) when I was in my teens and early 20s. I'm a bit older now, and a bit greyer, and see nothing wrong with saying 'woah, I ****ed that up, sorry', when I make a clanger. Nobody loses, everyone gets it.

If you're in your 30s or older and are still refusing to admit when you make a mistake, maybe that's something to look at.

Abel Ruiz

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Perhaps it's a maturity thing.

I was far more belligerent (not just online, but in general) when I was in my teens and early 20s. I'm a bit older now, and a bit greyer, and see nothing wrong with saying 'woah, I ****ed that up, sorry', when I make a clanger. Nobody loses, everyone gets it.

If you're in your 30s or older and are still refusing to admit when you make a mistake, maybe that's something to look at.

But you've been wrong many times lately, and won't admit it.

eviltwin

If someone is like that online they are probably like that in person. Some people see it as a sign of weakness to admit mistakes. I have a lot of respect for anyone who can admit they were wrong.

Abel Ruiz

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Because people on the interwebz are known for being magnanimous.

What happened to your "qed" post????

looksee

I am quite happy to acknowledge when I am wrong. I am never wrong though.

Samuel T. Cogley

Abel Ruiz wrote: »

What happened to your "qed" post????

I deleted it because I was wrong.

(Thanks for setting that up for me.)

the_pen_turner

there are no consequences on the internet. nobody knows you unless you tell them who you are.
as a result you cant lose face or look like an idiot out side of the forum or website you are on.

combine that with people that do no research on topics and believe any oul rubbish artical as fact and you have a dangerous mix of idiot and fool.

leggo

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Perhaps it's a maturity thing.

I was far more belligerent (not just online, but in general) when I was in my teens and early 20s. I'm a bit older now, and a bit greyer, and see nothing wrong with saying 'woah, I ****ed that up, sorry', when I make a clanger. Nobody loses, everyone gets it.

If you're in your 30s or older and are still refusing to admit when you make a mistake, maybe that's something to look at.

I’d be much the same as this, but yeah in earlier years I’d have found it difficult to admit, on and offline. A teacher once genuinely advised me to be a solicitor because, no matter how factually wrong I was, I could argue until I’d somehow end up winning the room over and being right. Now I just find it funny if I eff up. Part of maturity is recognising you’re just another person who doesn’t know it all.

I think online there’s an exposure element to it in that you feel like loads of people see and will think you stupid. Plus it’s not a zero-sum game, you’re dealing with other immature people who see admitting to being wrong in an argument as a life ender. I think there’s a lot to be said for being able to at least see someone’s face or a picture of them too: then you can see how young or vulnerable they may be and not feel the need to ‘win’ as much. If someone needs a win over me online to get through their day, let them have it. Plus when you’re wrong a million times, and see every significant person in your life also be wrong a million times, you realise it’s just not a big deal. Now I feel bad for people who seem to have their self-esteem somewhat wrapped up in winning online arguments: it’s such a fickle, empty reward at the end of the day. You feel better for about five minutes then go right back to whatever emptiness you felt before and go searching for another fix.

OldMrBrennan83

People are posting what they believe themselves, not necessarily what is right or wrong. So you're never going to convince someone that they shouldn't think how they do and should think like you instead.

Abel Ruiz

Abel Ruiz wrote: »

But you've been wrong many times lately, and won't admit it.

have I?

I'm talking about factual mistakes, clangers, as is the OP. Not differences of opinion.

I assume you're referring to something like that toxic, obsessive thread about Margaret Cash where I said something like prejudice against travellers is oppressive. Anyway, that's not for here, is it ? It's a difference of viewpoints.

lainey_d_123

That's not an internet thing. That's a 'man thinking he knows everything even though he's talking to an expert' thing. I've met people like this in real life, many times.

leggo

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

That's not an internet thing. That's a 'man thinking he knows everything even though he's talking to an expert' thing. I've met people like this in real life, many times.

We should definitely make this another gender war thread. There’s hardly any of them on boards these days.

I know loads of people like this in real life.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

aloneforever99 wrote: »

Why is it so hard to say "Sh1t... I got that wrong."

Remember this; I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

lainey_d_123

leggo wrote: »

We should definitely make this another gender war thread. There’s hardly any of them on boards these days.

You don't think this is a solid example of 'mansplaining'? Of course it is. It's not a thing where opinion comes into it. It's a man telling a woman she's wrong about the word for vulva. A woman who not only has a vulva but works with them all day, every day.

eviltwin

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

That's not an internet thing. That's a 'man thinking he knows everything even though he's talking to an expert' thing. I've met people like this in real life, many times.

I've met many women who are exactly the same. I work with one. She can never admit she's wrong even when it's glaringly obvious, just makes her look an even bigger fool

aloneforever99

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

People are posting what they believe themselves, not necessarily what is right or wrong. So you're never going to convince someone that they shouldn't think how they do and should think like you instead.

Yeah, like Tyrant said, I'm talking about facts.

I'd have been very stubborn when I was younger too, but these days I kind of like being able to say "What can I tell you, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong"

On an ISIS thread the other day I made four points. Someone pointed out that one of my points was completely wrong. So I said "Okay, you got me there, I stand by my other three points."

You don't have to change your whole belief system because you get a fact wrong occasionally!

dxhound2005

Four people have been wrong on the thread so far.

leggo

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You don't think this is a solid example of 'mansplaining'? Of course it is. It's not a thing where opinion comes into it. It's a man telling a woman she's wrong about the word for vulva. A woman who not only has a vulva but works with them all day, every day.

I know SO many women who joke about how they’re never wrong. It’s not a gender thing. It’s a wanker thing.

aloneforever99

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Four people have been wrong on the thread so far.

Only four?

biko

I'll stretch as far as "I wasn't right, but also I wasn't all wrong"

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

That's not an internet thing. That's a 'man thinking he knows everything even though he's talking to an expert' thing. I've met people like this in real life, many times.

Why on earth would you just say “man” in your comment ?
My female boss and another female acquaintance of mine are unbelievable self righteous and never back down or say “I got it wrong”. Much more so than any men I know.

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

Why on earth would you just say “man” in your comment ?
My female boss and another female acquaintance of mine are unbelievable self righteous and never back down or say “I got it wrong”. Much more so than any men I know.

I know plenty of women like that too, but I find explaining 'facts' to people who know better than they do to be more a man thing. Would a woman tell a man that testicles are not called testicles and keep arguing when presented with evidence to the contrary? I don't think it's anywhere near as common.

aloneforever99

Deleted User wrote: »

Why on earth would you just say “man” in your comment ?
My female boss and another female acquaintance of mine are unbelievable self righteous and never back down or say “I got it wrong”. Much more so than any men I know.

Because the story in the link was about a man, and she was referring back to it.

the_pen_turner

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I know plenty of women like that too, but I find explaining 'facts' to people who know better than they do to be more a man thing. Would a woman tell a man that testicles are not called testicles and keep arguing when presented with evidence to the contrary? I don't think it's anywhere near as common.

that vulva case is an outliier. he is an idiot.

but this kind of behavier is seen in men and women.

women often talk like that to men about childcare, babies, clothes, fashion, home decor , cooking etc like men havnt a clue.

Triangle

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I know plenty of women like that too, but I find explaining 'facts' to people who know better than they do to be more a man thing. Would a woman tell a man that testicles are not called testicles and keep arguing when presented with evidence to the contrary? I don't think it's anywhere near as common.

You haven't met my wife then (and she has said this - its not just a male perspective). Winning an argument is more important than facts.
This isn't a gender thing. It's a human thing.

mzungu

biko wrote: »

I'll stretch as far as "I wasn't right, but also I wasn't all wrong"

I think you should run for the Dáil when the next GE comes around.

Little Less Conversation

Never mind about online but what about real life? So hard to admit they're wrong so they would rather lose out on a friendship. People like that sickens me. Especially when they are presented with the facts.

Calltocall

Some people think it is a sign of weakness to admit they were wrong even if they know they were in fact wrong and would go to the end of the earth to prove otherwise, Imo it’s actually a sign of weakness to behave that way.

Outlaw Pete

That there are articles with 'mansplaining' in the title is more of a concern than there being some idiot online who won't accept when he's wrong.

That an article is even written about it is bizarre. A man is wrong. Who gives a fcuk.

Outlaw Pete

lol. Channel 4 made a docu based on the same thing and guess what they called it?

100 Vaginas

Documentary artist Laura Dodsworth photographs women and hears their intimate, shocking, moving, powerful or funny stories about how their vaginas have shaped their lives

Windows at Guardian HQ must have been very steamed up when they seen that

retro:electro

It’s a really unattractive, not to mention a pretty pathetic state to insist you’re right about something to the extent you look like a fool, especially when it’s clear to everyone else you’re wrong. There’s nothing wrong in having a little humility, even laughing at yourself and admitting you got the wrong end of the stick, overreacted, misspoke etc. Humour is a great way to dissolve a situation like that.
Often people like that have deep rooted issues that go far beyond the inability to have a little humility.

Gimme A Pound

If people are gender biased, they'll view things that way. All I know is that some people are arseholes and I can't remember whether they're male or female. That "mansplaining" thing is a behaviour that anyone of any sex, gender, age, background could engage in.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

prejudice against travellers is oppressive.

And based on experience, reality, that sort of thing.

Church on Tuesday

It takes courage to hold your hands up and admit that you were wrong.

It's the mature thing to do; if facts state otherwise then you say you got it wrong.

Some people are just too proud to do that though.

Yer Da sells Avon

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

That there are articles with 'mansplaining' in the title is more of a concern than there being some idiot online who won't accept when he's wrong.

That an article is even written about it is bizarre. A man is wrong. Who gives a fcuk.

He wasn't just wrong - It's an amusing story because his ego wouldn't allow him to acknowledge the fact that he was wrong, and he found himself trying to explain vaginas to people who know a lot more about them than he (clearly) does. He could've made his own life a lot easier - and looked far less silly - by simply accepting that he was mistaken, acknowledging that fact and moving on.

Too many men out there with too much confidence and not enough self-awareness.

the_pen_turner

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

He wasn't just wrong - It's an amusing story because his ego wouldn't allow him to acknowledge the fact that he was wrong, and he found himself trying to explain vaginas to people who know a lot more about them than he (clearly) does. He could've made his own life a lot easier - and looked far less silly - by simply accepting that he was mistaken, acknowledging that fact and moving on.

Too many men out there with too much confidence and not enough self-awareness.

That fella is wrong because he has opinions that are not based on facts and was too stupid to admit he knew less than someone else.
He is not wrong because he is a man. He could have known everything there is to know on the subject

Yer Da sells Avon

the_pen_turner wrote: »

That fella is wrong because he has opinions that are not based on facts and was too stupid to admit he knew less than someone else.
He is not wrong because he is a man. He could have known everything there is to know on the subject

He's not necessarily stupid, but the ego can make people behave stupidly. Some women behave like that, but a lot of men do. Especially online.

the_pen_turner

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

He's not necessarily stupid, but the ego can make people behave stupidly. Some women behave like that, but a lot of men do. Especially online.

I don't mean stupid in an intelligence way. I mean he was too stupid to realise that the other person had more knowledge on that subject.

Not sure about online but I see more women like this than men.

Wheety

Had a read of his twitter this morning. Has really doubled down. He's claiming he knew the difference between a vagina and a vulva. He was correcting the article because vagina is the colloquial term for the vulva and vagina. He says it's more commonly used and thus has become the de facto term. He's still sticking with this argument

freshpopcorn

Sometimes people are just bad to admit they are wrong.
Equally I don't like when people apologise to easy because they feel they have to especially if there not sorry.

Ted Johnson

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

He's not necessarily stupid, but the ego can make people behave stupidly. Some women behave like that, but a lot of men do. Especially online.

Nice empirical evidence there bro.

Yer Da sells Avon

Ted Johnson wrote: »

Nice empirical evidence there bro.

Just something I've noticed, especially on here. Of course, I could be wrong, but lemme guess... you're not?

Mrsmum

Wheety wrote: »

Had a read of his twitter this morning. Has really doubled down. He's claiming he knew the difference between a vagina and a vulva. He was correcting the article because vagina is the colloquial term for the vulva and vagina. He says it's more commonly used and thus has become the de facto term. He's still sticking with this argument

So now he is saying they are both correct terms when originally he was most definitely correcting the use of vulva in favour of vagina.

Sardonicat

Wheety wrote: »

Had a read of his twitter this morning. Has really doubled down. He's claiming he knew the difference between a vagina and a vulva. He was correcting the article because vagina is the colloquial term for the vulva and vagina. He says it's more commonly used and thus has become the de facto term. He's still sticking with this argument

I read a post on boards recently stating the same thing.
Is it really that common to use the word 'vagina' instead of 'vulva' for external genitalia? I use the correct terms (in polite company ). However, I didn't know I had a 'vestibule' til I read the article!

Ted Johnson

I avoid this kind of embarrassing mix up by always referring to vagina as "pussy' or 'snatch'.

Wheety

Mrsmum wrote: »

So now he is saying they are both correct terms when originally he was most definitely correcting the use of vulva in favour of vagina.

Yeah, his original tweet was "The correct term is vagina". Doesn't sound like he knew both terms.

Sardonicat wrote: »

I read a post on boards recently stating the same thing.
Is it really that common to use the word 'vagina' instead of 'vulva' for external genitalia? I use the correct terms (in polite company ). However, I didn't know I had a 'vestibule' til I read the article!

"a chamber or channel opening into another." :eek:

Sardonicat

I'm guessing you avoid the opportunity for mix-up with your choice of words aswell

Sardonicat

Wheety wrote: »

"a chamber or channel opening into another." :eek:

Excellent new insult opportunity though.
Mansplainers can be cut short with "Shut up, you're giving me a pain in me vestibule! "