M50 widening and junction expansion thread

Kermit.de.frog

As per Marno's suggestion a brand new thread.

OP note

This is NOT a thread for either ecomentalists or public transport enthusiasts

Want to discuss that as an alternative - go somewhere else. None of that nonsense.

This is hardcore tarmac here.

We need the best ideas for widening the M50 and expanding existing flyovers.

My plan is to follow the US and build elevated toll routes along the M50. The existing carriageway (expanded to 5 lanes each way + aux) would be free.

See this vid of Dallas (from 1:42) - this WILL work. Elevated and trenched/tunneled freeflow tolling lanes with their own flyovers. Other lanes free to use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y1kVbVt_Uk

This is what Dublin needs.

Let's do it already. :cool:

Aontachtoir

Do you have a cost estimate?

Kermit.de.frog

€1bn given the length compared to my example but it would be privately funded. The company could also pay for expansion of the current free mainline to 6 lanes each way as well.

Quick, painless and cheap for the taxpayer. Also awesome.

Let's do it.

Geogregor

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

€1bn given the length compared to my example but it would be privately funded.

Could you elaborate where did you get that figure from?

Just out of curiosity, this idea is as realistic as pink unicorns promised for all.

Let's do it.

Dream on...

bluetractor

With a large proportion of traffic coming off the M1, M2 & M3 and then onto the M4 & M7 (and vice versa), would a motorway going from Drogheda to Naas and intersecting with just the M2-M7 motorways or similar be a better option with a low toll fee applied and take all that traffic away. Add in some link up with the Port tunnel via Horizon logistic park and that would take the majority of large trucks off the M50 as well as all the transiting motorists.

Go further and make a new junction into and out of Greenogue from the N7 south of Rathcoole. If memory serves me right, there is some old plan for the area near the revamped Applegreen)

Idbatterim

They can use the aux lane and it would continue on from where it veers of at junctions. There is enough space between most bridges for four lanes. Then you just tarmac to the left of the six lane a few hundred meters before junction, there also looks to me to be the space for this.

The notion of an outer bypass is laughable to me. Metro link with upgrading of green line to metro will Hoover a lot of traffic off m50. There is no way masses more money will be thrown at m50, not a chance.

Am eastern bypass 15-20 years away after metro link if it’s needed , is far more sustainable... and the route is reserved.

L1011

Can you give costings for your 1bn?

It's been stated numerous times that the M50 will not be expanded further and that other solutions are needed

Tomrota

Or we could just invest in a cohesive metro/tram network in the GDA and allow the M50 to cool off.

vrusinov

This topic title is very misleading - there are no official plans to widen M50, and we don't need them.

M50 would be a fine road if we can remove most of regular commuters from it. Perhaps we can narrow it to two lanes and plant some trees/bushes in the middle?

Ted Johnson

American highways are a thing of beauty.

BelfastVanMan

Ted Johnson wrote: »

American highways are a thing of beauty.

Some of them are, others are monstrous carbunkles, ploughing through dense urban areas on 2 or more levels.

marno21

vrusinov wrote: »

This topic title is very misleading - there are no official plans to widen M50, and we don't need them.

M50 would be a fine road if we can remove most of regular commuters from it. Perhaps we can narrow it to two lanes and plant some trees/bushes in the middle?

Thread title change to reflect this.

nordydan

Why don't you just tarmac the entire country and be done with it??

SeanW

Jesus, do you even live in Ireland?

Dallas Fort Worth has more people that all of Ireland put together. It also has land usage patterns not common anywhere in Europe and much more extreme weather (most of the US does) that make spending lots of time outdoors walking, cycling, waiting for buses and trains much more of a non starter than in places with a more temperate climate, like Ireland.

Forget all these 5 level stacks and 12 lane tollways and all that sort of nonsense, it just doesn't apply here and it isn't needed.

That's not to say that roads aren't needed - they are, but the needs are way more modest. At minimum, I would go with:

• Metro Link and DART Underground in Dublin.
• Quad Track all main lines from Connolly. Maybe not Bray/Rosslare because it would be too difficult, but the Northern and Maynooth lines absolutely in addition to the Kildare line further beyond Hazelhatch.
• Park and Rides along all railway main lines from Dublin. At the Northern and Southern ends of the Metro Link and on all the main DART lines.
• M20 Cork to Limerick. In Full. Now.
• Full M40 ring around Cork City. Motorway all the way. Widen whatever needs to be widened.
• Galway Bypass. Motorway the whole way.
• Expand the M2, M3, M4 both back towards the M50 allowing motorway-to-motorway interchange, and expand all 3 motorways further towards the regions.
• Expand the M7 over the current N7 back to the M50 interchange. Again, motorway-to-motorway interchange for all M50-M7 movements.
• Replace the Rathmorrissey roundabout on the M6/M17/M18 with a Partially Unrolled Cloverleaf.
• Replace that stupid roundabout at the M1 exit for Dublin Airport and replace it with a Trumpet junction. Partially grade separate the Airport Motorway spur junction with the R132 so that traffic can cross from the M1 into the airport without crossing the old N1.
• Begin planning for a Leinster Motorway, connecting Portaloise, Mullingar, Drogheda and suchlike points in the region, the same to be started after higher priority problems are dealt with.

Tipp Red

Build a motorway from M7/M9 junction to north of Drogheda. Then, traffic from the South and Waterford/Kilkenny to the North wouldnt have to go near the M50?

marno21

Tipp Red wrote: »

Build a motorway from M7/M9 junction to north of Drogheda. Then, traffic from the South and Waterford/Kilkenny to the North wouldnt have to go near the M50?

The level of traffic that would use that motorway is too small to justify the massive cost of such a project.

In addition it would just promote sprawl and further expansion of Dublin and would do little for traffic on the M50, the majority of which is commuter traffic.

Carawaystick

How about providing public transport solutions to move some commuters from driving to getting driven.

And a cycling link to connect across the Liffey from D15 south

You'd accept.....

Hilarious

Sam Russell

Mod:

@ Kermit.de.frog

Please do not post any more American videos showing inappropriate roads.

1. The Gov does not have the funds to build such roads.

2. We do not have the space for such roads.

3. We desperately need public transport infrastructure because the cars are causing grid lock throughout Dublin and its surrounds.

Also, do not get involved in backseat moderation - it never ends well.

I have deleted your post.

hans aus dtschl

SeanW wrote: »

Jesus, do you even live in Ireland?

Dallas Fort Worth has more people that all of Ireland put together. It also has land usage patterns not common anywhere in Europe and much more extreme weather (most of the US does) that make spending lots of time outdoors walking, cycling, waiting for buses and trains much more of a non starter than in places with a more temperate climate, like Ireland.

Forget all these 5 level stacks and 12 lane tollways and all that sort of nonsense, it just doesn't apply here and it isn't needed.

That's not to say that roads aren't needed - they are, but the needs are way more modest. At minimum, I would go with:

• Metro Link and DART Underground in Dublin.
• Quad Track all main lines from Connolly. Maybe not Bray/Rosslare because it would be too difficult, but the Northern and Maynooth lines absolutely in addition to the Kildare line further beyond Hazelhatch.
• Park and Rides along all railway main lines from Dublin. At the Northern and Southern ends of the Metro Link and on all the main DART lines.
• M20 Cork to Limerick. In Full. Now.
• Full M40 ring around Cork City. Motorway all the way. Widen whatever needs to be widened.
• Galway Bypass. Motorway the whole way.
• Expand the M2, M3, M4 both back towards the M50 allowing motorway-to-motorway interchange, and expand all 3 motorways further towards the regions.
• Expand the M7 over the current N7 back to the M50 interchange. Again, motorway-to-motorway interchange for all M50-M7 movements.
• Replace the Rathmorrissey roundabout on the M6/M17/M18 with a Partially Unrolled Cloverleaf.
• Replace that stupid roundabout at the M1 exit for Dublin Airport and replace it with a Trumpet junction. Partially grade separate the Airport Motorway spur junction with the R132 so that traffic can cross from the M1 into the airport without crossing the old N1.
• Begin planning for a Leinster Motorway, connecting Portaloise, Mullingar, Drogheda and suchlike points in the region, the same to be started after higher priority problems are dealt with.

When do you run for office and when can I vote for you?
HOWEVER
I'm not too worried about the Rathmorrissey roundabout and Leinster Motorway just yet. I'd put ambitious sustainable transport projects in Galway, Limerick, Cork above these.

AugustusMinimus

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

When do you run for office and when can I vote for you?
HOWEVER
I'm not too worried about the Rathmorrissey roundabout and Leinster Motorway just yet. I'd put ambitious sustainable transport projects in Galway, Limerick, Cork above these.

Rathmorrissey was beyond stupid but it is now done and will likely remain that way for decades.

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Rathmorrissey was beyond stupid but it is now done and will likely remain that way for decades.

Yep a crazy mistake to make, but I don't think remediation works are too urgent for a while.

Tipp Red

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

When do you run for office and when can I vote for you?
HOWEVER
I'm not too worried about the Rathmorrissey roundabout and Leinster Motorway just yet. I'd put ambitious sustainable transport projects in Galway, Limerick, Cork above these.

Good ideas. Just wondering about the M7 to M50?...would that be continue the M7 along the original planned route to link up with junction 8 on the M50? Or develop the existing Nass Road to motorway standard which would involve building a new road from Dublin to Naas to cater for non motorway traffic?

I've only been through the Rathmorrisey junction a couple of times and really don't see the issue. Does it get incredibly backed up at times or is there some kind of safety issue people are concerned about?

Cookiemunster

Deleted User wrote: »

I've only been through the Rathmorrisey junction a couple of times and really don't see the issue. Does it get incredibly backed up at times or is there some kind of safety issue people are concerned about?

It's not freeflow, so has the potential for backlogs, but it's unlikely to have enough traffic to cause backlogs any time soon.

Cookiemunster

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's not freeflow, so has the potential for backlogs, but it's unlikely to have enough traffic to cause backlogs any time soon.

...or ever?

AugustusMinimus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've only been through the Rathmorrisey junction a couple of times and really don't see the issue. Does it get incredibly backed up at times or is there some kind of safety issue people are concerned about?

Why build a more complicated and potentially expensive junction when a simpler, cheaper junction could have been built with a much higher capacity.

A lesson for the future.

L1011

All due to a motorway service area that will never be built

Kermit.de.frog

The problem with Rathmorrisey is that is so retrograde - it's going backwards whereas I thought we were at least getting a grip on better junction designs comparable at least to the continent.

There should be no roundabouts at all on any motorway-motorway interchange.

Shoddy design.

On the continent you build a cheaper, more efficient better designed cloverleaf here. But not in Galway...

Problem is our eejit planners might see it as an acceptable template.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The problem with Rathmorrisey is that is so retrograde - it's going backwards whereas I thought we were at least getting a grip on better junction designs comparable at least to the continent.

There should be no roundabouts at all on any motorway-motorway interchange.

Shoddy design.

On the continent you build a cheaper, more efficient better designed cloverleaf here. But not in Galway...

Problem is our eejit planners might see it as an acceptable template.

I don't know of anyone who thinks that Rathmorrisey was the best design option. It was done that way to put a single services site off the RAB which was rejected by abp. They never altered the design as a result of that rejection instead just didn't build the services

Idbatterim

Des McFarlane wrote: »

This is what the M50 needs to be like:

geograph.org.uk/photo/2298168

The London M25, four lanes, hard shoulder.

Will there be a point when the M50 becomes like this?

I for one hope so.

It’s already pretty much like that !

Sleeper12

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

My plan is to follow the US and build elevated toll routes along the M50. The existing carriageway (expanded to 5 lanes each way + aux) would be free.

Pat Kenny had someone on a few months ago. For the life of me I can't remember who but they are involved in planning our road network. They said that the M50 is as wide as it will ever be. He said that there is no room for another lane. He said that the only possible expansion was to build another teir on top of the existing M50. Both he and Pat agreed that the cost of this would prohibit it from ever happening

Vic_08

Des McFarlane wrote: »

This is what the M50 needs to be like:

geograph.org.uk/photo/2298168

The London M25, four lanes, hard shoulder.

Will there be a point when the M50 becomes like this?

I for one hope so.

There, your wish is granted. A little slice of motoring nirvana. :rolleyes: