Shop won't accept return of the special order

GalwayBmw

We bought a few packs of laminate flooring from one of the stores in Dublin 18, following the visit to their shop. Now we want to return it as we changed our mind.

In the payment receipt we got from them it says - items can be returned within 7 days, subject to 15% restocking fee, except "special order" cases. I rang the shop and they told me that they can't accept my return as it's a special order.

The item can be seen and ordered in the shop - it's a regular flooring after all, but what it made it a special order is the fact that they had to order it from the UK as they don't physically stock it.

Question is what are my chances here, we paid circa 900 euro for it, and are happy to lose 15%, but not the full amount. Is there a point in contacting any regulatory body or I'm on my own here.

thanks.

wellwhynot

Shops are under no obligation to refund any product if you change your mind.

amcalester

Did you know it was a special order?

If it’s on their website and there’s no indication that it’s not a stocked item and that ordering it would be a special order I’d feel hard done by.

Mundo7976

<SNIP>
You say you rang them. Maybe worth a try to physically go to the store as over the phone they migh be chancing it!

drunkmonkey

I'd say there referring to the quantity, it's not much use to anyone besides you as it was to fit a certain space and ordered especially for you.
They don't have to take it back. Maybe if your buying something else they might do something besides that it's yours.

GalwayBmw

Mundo7976 wrote: »

You say you rang them. Maybe worth a try to physically go to the store as over the phone they migh be chancing it!

I've been to the shop recently for a different reason, they are nice people indeed, they explained that they don't do returns due to the actual manufacturer won't be accepting them. I just thought it would be a case of having a higher precedent low protecting my rights as a consumer.

It's ain't no 50 quid purchase after all, be honest that makes me feel like a setup target, they had me, now all I can do it to absorb the damage. The laminate is still in the original packaging, I'm happy to pay restocking fee - what's the problem now?

GalwayBmw

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd say there referring to the quantity, it's not much use to anyone besides you as it was to fit a certain space and ordered especially for you.
They don't have to take it back. Maybe if your buying something else they might do something besides that it's yours.

Sorry but makes no sense. How can factory boxes be made just for me? They just standard packaging, standard size, standard model of laminate available for ordering either in the shop or over the phone.

antodeco

You changed your mind though. The store can return it via goodwill, they're not under any obligation to take it back. Whether that's good business sense or not is a different story, but the fact they won't take it back suggests they know themselves they won't be able to resell it, and ultimately have the loss themselves.

backspin.

eBay or donedeal may be your only option

salmocab

GalwayBmw wrote: »

I've been to the shop recently for a different reason, they are nice people indeed, they explained that they don't do returns due to the actual manufacturer won't be accepting them. I just thought it would be a case of having a higher precedent low protecting my rights as a consumer.

It's ain't no 50 quid purchase after all, be honest that makes me feel like a setup target, they had me, now all I can do it to absorb the damage. The laminate is still in the original packaging, I'm happy to pay restocking fee - what's the problem now?

Well if they can’t get their money back then they are stuck with a specific amount of that particular flooring that may take years to shift. They would basically be paying for you changing your mind.
Its a pain but I don’t think there is a lot you can do beyond just asking them again.

Mundo7976

In that case, special order or not, they are under no obligation to return due to change of mind and its an offer to treat by saying they offer return/restock fee. There will be Ts & Cs somewhere.

Oops!

Was the product damaged or not fit for purpose? You say it was'nt and you just changed your mind... Sorry, as stated in the terms they are under no obligation to take it back.

What it makes you feel like is irrelevant.... It's a special order.... They don't have to take the hit

Donedeal.ie

drunkmonkey

GalwayBmw wrote: »

Sorry but makes no sense. How can factory boxes be made just for me? They just standard packaging, standard size, standard model of laminate available for ordering either in the shop or over the phone.

The quantity of boxes you ordered in specially is only good for your job.

GalwayBmw

antodeco wrote: »

You changed your mind though. The store can return it via goodwill, they're not under any obligation to take it back. Whether that's good business sense or not is a different story, but the fact they won't take it back suggests they know themselves they won't be able to resell it, and ultimately have the loss themselves.

I did. I'm sure no sellers genuinely like returns. It's always more hassle for a seller, but there's such thing consumer rights protection. If you buy a pair jeans you can return it, if you buy a freezer you can return it, if you buy laminate you can't - why? how is it different.

Oops!

GalwayBmw wrote: »

I did. I'm sure no sellers genuinely like returns. It's always more hassle for a seller, but there's such thing consumer rights protection. If you buy a pair jeans you can return it, if you buy a freezer you can return it, if you buy laminate you can't - why? how is it different.

A pair of jeans yes, 900 euro worth of jeans because you have changed your mind and dont like the colour.... no.

Mundo7976

But if you simply change your mind about something you bought in a shop and decide you don't want to keep it, you do not have any rights under consumer law. Some shops offer to accept returns and give you an exchange or refund within a certain amount of time after the purchase.
Changing your mind - The Competition and Consumer ...
https://www.ccpc.ie › buying-goods › ch...

drunkmonkey

No you can't return any of the items you listed unless the shop offers a return on them.
You have no right to return anything there is no fault with.

brightspark

GalwayBmw wrote: »

I did. I'm sure no sellers genuinely like returns. It's always more hassle for a seller, but there's such thing consumer rights protection. If you buy a pair jeans you can return it, if you buy a freezer you can return it, if you buy laminate you can't - why? how is it different.

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-goods/changing-your-mind/

salmocab

GalwayBmw wrote: »

I did. I'm sure no sellers genuinely like returns. It's always more hassle for a seller, but there's such thing consumer rights protection. If you buy a pair jeans you can return it, if you buy a freezer you can return it, if you buy laminate you can't - why? how is it different.

You don’t have the right to return these things unless they are damaged etc just lots of shops will accept returns but it’s not required by law.

theteal

GalwayBmw wrote: »

I did. I'm sure no sellers genuinely like returns. It's always more hassle for a seller, but there's such thing consumer rights protection. If you buy a pair jeans you can return it, if you buy a freezer you can return it, if you buy laminate you can't - why? how is it different.

No, sorry OP, that's just shop policy/goodwill if a shop will accept such a return. Consumer rights protects for faulty and mis-sold purchases, not change of mind.

brightspark

It's even in the sticky

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=291266

GalwayBmw

brightspark wrote: »

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-goods/changing-your-mind/

Thanks for that. I'd day that closes the dispute for me.

amcalester

GalwayBmw wrote: »

I did. I'm sure no sellers genuinely like returns. It's always more hassle for a seller, but there's such thing consumer rights protection. If you buy a pair jeans you can return it, if you buy a freezer you can return it, if you buy laminate you can't - why? how is it different.

Consumer protection doesn’t apply here as it’s a change of mind. All that matter is whether this was a special order or not and as I said above it they advertise this product on their site and make no mention of it being a special order product I’d feel hard done by.

You could try the small claims court, your argument being that this wasn’t a special order and if it was you should have been made aware it was outside the shops returns policy.

brightspark

Now you could go and politely ask them if they could give you a credit note as opposed to a refund?

Or you could put it up on ebay etc?

drunkmonkey

GalwayBmw wrote: »

Thanks for that. I'd day that closes the dispute for me.

This is what your your thinking of https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-online/if-things-dont-go-as-planned/
If you bought them on their website you could return them.

GalwayBmw

brightspark wrote: »

Now you could go and politely ask them if they could give you a credit note as opposed to a refund?

Or you could put it up on ebay etc?

Looks like is's the only option. I've 25 sq.m. laminate for sale (suitable for usage in commercial premises), offers taken!

antodeco

amcalester wrote: »

You could try the small claims court, your argument being that this wasn’t a special order and if it was you should have been made aware it was outside the shops returns policy.

The OP will be wasting the money for the order and postage. It's a change of mind. Literally nothing that makes the shop liable for returning it.

GalwayBmw

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is what your your thinking of https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-online/if-things-dont-go-as-planned/
If you bought them on their website you could return them.

I was in the shop, then I rang them and paid over the phone. Does it only apply to purchases made online via the website payment form?

amcalester

antodeco wrote: »

The OP will be wasting the money for the order and postage. It's a change of mind. Literally nothing that makes the shop liable for returning it.

The shops own T&C’s allow for returns except where it was a special order, unless the OP was informed this was a special order the SCC may decide in his favour.

For the sake of €25 it’s worth a try, he stands to gain nearly €800.

amcalester

amcalester wrote: »

The shops own T&C’s allow for returns except where it was a special order, unless the OP was informed this was a special order the SCC may decide in his favour.

For the sake of €25 it’s worth a try, he stands to gain nearly €800.

Aren’t change of mind returns totally at the discretion of the shop and not covered by the SoGaSA? How would SCC decide on something that is at the discretion of the vendor?

drunkmonkey

GalwayBmw wrote: »

I was in the shop, then I rang them and paid over the phone. Does it only apply to purchases made online via the website payment form?

Distance selling applies when your not physically in the store. So yes paying by card over the phone would count. Now I'm not sure what happens when the deal was done in the store and you simply called up to pay.

RossieMan

drunkmonkey wrote:

Distance selling applies when your not physically in the store. So yes paying by card over the phone would count. Now I'm not sure what happens when the deal was done in the store and you simply called up to pay.

No way does this fall under distance selling. You'll be laughed out of any place if you use this as a defence.

amcalester

Dav010 wrote: »

Aren’t change of mind returns totally at the discretion of the shop and not covered by the SoGaSA? How would SCC decide on something that is at the discretion of the vendor?

I’m assuming the OP is a business, he mentions its commercial flooring and the SCC can rule on businesses making claims against other businesses in relation to contracts for goods or services purchased.

The SoGaSA is irrelevant but the shops T&Cs are an integral part of the agreement, so the return isn’t really at the vendors discretion (once it is included in the contract).

The variable is whether the order was a special order or not.

If I went into Curry’s (as an example) and enquired about a product advertised on their website and was told that it wasn’t in stock but could be ordered then I wouldn’t consider it a special order.

Really it hinges on the conversation between vendor and seller at the time of ordering.

amcalester

amcalester wrote: »

I’m assuming the OP is a business, he mentions its commercial flooring and the SCC can rule on businesses making claims against other businesses in relation to contracts for goods or services purchased.

The SoGaSA is irrelevant but the shops T&Cs are an integral part of the agreement, so the return isn’t really at the vendors discretion (once it is included in the contract).

The variable is whether the order was a special order or not.

If I went into Curry’s (as an example) and enquired about a product advertised on their website and was told that it wasn’t in stock but could be ordered then I wouldn’t consider it a special order.

Really it hinges on the conversation between vendor and seller at the time of ordering.

If the item ordered was not something Curry’s stock and the size was ordered specifically to fit a space in your home from a manufacturer in another country who does not accept returns, I would think that is a special order.

The fact of the matter is that this is a change of mind and I doubt any court will find in favour of the op. You say you think the op is a tradesman, if the op had to order this specially for a client, you can be sure he would be charging the client.

Commercial flooring is just flooring for areas with heavy use. I have commercial grade flooring in a room we used as a kids playroom. It doesn’t look as good as other wood floors but it takes huge abuse.

I think distance selling relates to items purchased without the buyer physically being in the shop and unable to examine them. The op posted he bought floor after visiting the shop.

rubadub

amcalester wrote: »

The shops own T&C’s allow for returns except where it was a special order, unless the OP was informed this was a special order the SCC may decide in his favour.

I am interested to hear comments on this. If I owned a shop I would make it very clear if it was a special order and no return was possible. If I was a customer I would also be asking about it beforehand. It sounded like the OP had no idea, and learnt of policies off the receipt after buying. It did not sound like they made the purchase on the basis that they could easily get a refund

I do not like the thoughts of all shops taking anything like this back, as obviously they will have to increase the costs of everything to allow for the potential costs incurred.

OP- I would be asking them what "restocking fee" would be acceptable. You say you are happy to take 15%, what about 50%? you might not get that from selling it on.

Dav010 wrote: »

Aren’t change of mind returns totally at the discretion of the shop and not covered by the SoGaSA? How would SCC decide on something that is at the discretion of the vendor?

I would have thought it depends on their declared policies. I will often buy items from Argos, which I could get cheaper elsewhere, solely due to their explicit returns policy.

When you buy something from argos which is NOT included, e.g. maybe an electric razor for hygenie reasons, then the product page usually has an exemption mark, but also the cashier has always made it clear to me it is excluded.

hognef

Dav010 wrote: »

If the item ordered was not something Curry’s stock and the size was ordered specifically to fit a space in your home from a manufacturer in another country who does not accept returns, I would think that is a special order.

In fairness now, laminate is sold in whole packs of, say, 2 point something square meters. The OP has ordered a certain number of said packs, to cover their 25 sqm floor, probably plus 5-10% extra to allow for cuts, etc. If these packs were to be restocked, they could be resold to two customers requiring 10 and 15 sqm each, for example, or could be included in the sale to somebody requiring 100 sqm.

A better analogy in Currys would be an order for 3 coffee makers. Nobody would argue that those couldn't be resold because they were originally ordered by somebody who needed exactly 3 makers.

amcalester

hognef wrote: »

A better analogy in Currys would be an order for 3 coffee makers. Nobody would argue that those couldn't be resold because they were originally ordered by somebody who needed exactly 3 makers.

Exactly, there’s nothing inherently special about the shop ordering in a product that they have on display and if there is they should have told the OP.

Samuel T. Cogley

Simple contract is the answer. If they say they accept returns then you're entitled to rely on that notwithstanding it's not in the Sales of Goods Acts. In this case though I think the OP would be wasting €25 - they're simply going to say it's a special order.

pablo128

hognef wrote: »

In fairness now, laminate is sold in whole packs of, say, 2 point something square meters. The OP has ordered a certain number of said packs, to cover their 25 sqm floor, probably plus 5-10% extra to allow for cuts, etc. If these packs were to be restocked, they could be resold to two customers requiring 10 and 15 sqm each, for example, or could be included in the sale to somebody requiring 100 sqm.

A better analogy in Currys would be an order for 3 coffee makers. Nobody would argue that those couldn't be resold because they were originally ordered by somebody who needed exactly 3 makers.

Flooring is sold in batches so there is no discrepancy between colours. So are tiles. I doubt they could use the OPs 25 sq m as part of a bigger order.

Sleeper12

hognef wrote:

In fairness now, laminate is sold in whole packs of, say, 2 point something square meters. The OP has ordered a certain number of said packs, to cover their 25 sqm floor, probably plus 5-10% extra to allow for cuts, etc. If these packs were to be restocked, they could be resold to two customers requiring 10 and 15 sqm each, for example, or could be included in the sale to somebody requiring 100 sqm.

Laminate flooring is like buying wallpaper for anyone old enough to remember wallpaper. OPs laminate can't be sent back to the supplier & added to another order. Different batches can't be mixed. They can be slightly different shades but very noticeable ones laid down on the floor. If they took them back they might have to be sold as 2nds at a reduced price.

hognef

pablo128 wrote: »

Flooring is sold in batches so there is no discrepancy between colours. So are tiles. I doubt they could use the OPs 25 sq m as part of a bigger order.

In my experience with flooring (admittedly more semi-solid than laminate), instructions have indicated that, as it's made from natural materials, colour variations are to be expected, and the recommendation is therefore to mix boards from multiple packs in order to create a random spread. Obviously, depending on the particular style and finish, it might require closer matching of colours, but that's certainly not always the case. Perhaps that was the reason for the 'special order' designation, perhaps not. We don't know.