Discovery 2x07 'Light and Shadows' [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

TheValeyard

That time again folks

Looks like a bit of Spock and the Matrix Sentinels

Spear

I'm more and more convinced it'll turn out to be Burnham as the Red Angel but that's more based on the next episode preview.

I'm not delighted in them shoe-horning in more Cage references either.

Rawr

I won't blab too much until the ****Spoilers**** tag is up.

But damn, that one was ok too, things are still improving.
-The camera work has finally calmed the hell down...I had no nip-picks there this time.
-The intro was a Personal Log instead of a disjointed Grey's Anatomy style monologue. It came across a lot better this time and was cleverly used as a recap of the previous events (Kind of like when the LCARS computer voice told us about "Last time on Star Trek: [Insert Show Here]" )
-I actually kind of liked the Cage reference. I've always found it kind of odd that Spock could bank on bringing Pike back to Talos IV in the Menagerie. Maybe we get more background to that? I just hope they don't mess with the design of the Talosians (if they appear)

liamtech

In my opinion - a terrible episode - SPOILERS

Iv stood up for discovery on many occasions but i have to admit i had no time for this one

Pike and Ash

I think that Pike was written very poorly this week. All this nonsense that he was on some sort of 'quest for glory' was ludicrous. Ash made some sense but the whole bashing the prob part was ridiculous. Pike is supposed to be one of the greatest captains in history, has a medal for bravery named after him .. and this week he seemed to be on a death wish

The probe from the future

Im jumping between not caring about this plot, and worrying that it will be something ridiculous - Red Angel is Burnham, or Spock.. or Veger - or the borg - Yea i just cant care atm. The probe came back upgraded and evil.. ok.. great

Arium and the 3 red lights

Literally the only thing i enjoyed was this segment, and it lasted about 2 minutes

Sarek

Sarek seems to have hit his head badly on something since we last saw him. Made no sense what so ever to hand spock over to S31. If they need the information in his MIND... has anyone ever heard of a MIND MELD????????

Tilly

Rapidly becoming Neelix in my book

Section 31

Ok this is now bonkers in my mind. and really calls into question the whole, 'is this prime trek'.. 'parallel universe' etc. These guys are well known to EVERYONE. Including a federation shuttle craft. So in the space of 100 years we go from everyone knowing them, to no one ever having heard of them.. at all.. and they have their own fleet but apparently dont know how to use it. 3 ships with FTL sensors capable of detecting things light years away, searching for a shuttle craft, and they are flying in formation, and making zero progress



and NEXT WEEK! We do something outrageous that will undoubtedly be damaging to those of us who care about serious canon. I dont mind klingons, holo communicators, or the bridge being 'different'.. But they are off to Talos IV now.. great

Rawr

liamtech wrote: »

In my opinion - a terrible episode - SPOILERS

Iv stood up for discovery on many occasions but i have to admit i had no time for this one

Pike and Ash

I think that Pike was written very poorly this week. All this nonsense that he was on some sort of 'quest for glory' was ludicrous. Ash made some sense but the whole bashing the prob part was ridiculous. Pike is supposed to be one of the greatest captains in history, has a medal for bravery named after him .. and this week he seemed to be on a death wish

The probe from the future

Im jumping between not caring about this plot, and worrying that it will be something ridiculous - Red Angel is Burnham, or Spock.. or Veger - or the borg - Yea i just cant care atm. The probe came back upgraded and evil.. ok.. great

Those parts did disappoint me a good bit. Some of the time travel effects were kind of interesting in the build up and I was imagining something a little more to come out of the sudden "Time Hole" that appeared in the middle of the plot....for reasons....

Thing is, I really don't care all that much if Ash and Pike get along or not. If that was that point of this part of the plot, I don't think it was worth it. I was a lot more intetested to see if anything I recognised would pop up from the Time Thing. Instead we get a Matrix Sentinel from 300 years after TNG. Alright then....I was hoping for more there, but alright.

The Section 31 stuff was just silly too. How could they be so useless to let Michael just fly off their ship and escape while they were already on alert? Now it could be that they "let" her get away, but I'm not so sure of that.

This does feel better than previous episodes, but there's still a lot of silly to wean out I feel.

liamtech

See this is a side step. But for me i am worried by the 'Hit and Miss' Nature of season 2. By now in season one i was entusiastic about the plot. Lorca was giving it socks. Klingon war in full swing. but This season has been so hit and miss, i find myself entirely unentusiastic about it

Side step but look at the season as a whole so far -

• Episode 1 - Fair above average
• Episode 2 - average perhaps a little better
• Episode 3 - Decent Klingon Plot development
• Episode 4 - the magic planetoid with magic info - meh.. below par
• Episode 5 - contrieved nonsense to get the doctor back - very below par
• Episode 6 - EXCELLENT
• Episode 7 - terrible in my mind

i just think unprecidented excitement of season one has given way to Instability and predictability for season 2

Im still a fan, il keep watching of course. but i just think its in danger now - they need to make season 3 a hell of a lot better than this - or this season needs to improve out of all proportion

FutureGuy

Really enjoyed it. Again.

Very strong season.

fritzelly

Well that was a very short episode

liamtech

dont mean to keep posting bit its interesting there seems to be a polarized reaction to this episode online - lots love it and lots are of the opposite opinion

TheValeyard

liamtech wrote: »

dont mean to keep posting bit its interesting there seems to be a polarized reaction to this episode online - lots love it and lots are of the opposite opinion

More polarized than the Hull of the NX class ships.

Stark

I liked it for the most part. Thankfully the "Search for Spock" bit is over, I felt they were really dragging that out. And I'm intrigued to see what happens with Talos IV. Looks like Discovery is set 3 years after "The Cage" so the events there have already happened. Maybe we'll find out why there was a death penalty 10 years later for visiting there. It seemed like a total overreaction to have a death penalty based on the events of "The Cage". Figured the prospect of being trapped there by the powerful mind bending aliens should have been deterrent enough.

Hopefully with the finding Spock bit out of the way, there should be a solid run for the rest of the season.

TheValeyard

When someone asked in a previous thread where is Spock and I said did they check his house....i wasnt too far off

I loved the temporal stuff.


Disliked the whole section31 thing. Season would be better without it.

pixelburp

Well when I hoped the bridge crew might get more to do, didn't expect one to become a Trojan horse, which presumably Airium (so) has become. Would do no harm to clarify what she is exactly, now that she's part of the Future plot, I've always been curious about her.

A so-so episode otherwise, a bit of a dip after recent, stronger episodes. The Section 31 stuff was a bit incidental and again the writing frustrated me by throwing out a plot twist (Leland killed Burnham's parents) by telling rather than showing. And it had flashbacks too, so they could have easily worked that into the story.

Spear

I wonder if the recasting of Airiam is related to the fact they now seem to have found a use for the character, or intend to kill her off altogether?

Slydice

Thought the temporal plot burner with some mixed plot development (the probe.. could it be borg, vger or .. eh the matrix?) was grand.

But then like.. Talos IV

I was like .. huh Talos IV? then the next episode preview came along and I was all Talos IV!!!!!!!!!!!

Followed by something of a cross into 2010: Odyssey Two...

CAPTAIN PIKE - EXPLORE THE ALPHA AND BETA QUADRANTS.
ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS – EXCEPT TALOS IV.
ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE.

pixelburp

Spear wrote: »

I wonder if the recasting of Airiam is related to the fact they now seem to have found a use for the character, or intend to kill her off altogether?

I got the impression it was more that the actor was fed up doing 4 hours of makeup for barely any lines. At least in season 2 she has kinda got some moments, even if it doesn't leave it any clearer what she is.

Where the **** are they going with this??? Talos IV...

OK they've really really got me interested for next week.
Already seeing people saying "Talos IV, they're sh1tting on canon"... Are they really? Tell me what's canon about Talos to warrant a death penalty?


S31 is being borgified though. Too much too much, leave them in the shadows

Stark

Ariam is meant to be an augmented human apparently though the the writers seem to disagree on augmented human vs augmented alien. Don't think she could be full android as Data was supposed to be the first android in Starfleet.

I like that airiam is getting some screen time now.
stamets was a bit like... overpowered? hey i'll just magically solve all our problems. and i really like stamets don't get me wrong.
also i don't approve of hipster spock.

that all said i enjoyed the episode loads

CastorTroy

So the probe was sent by Brainiac?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Not a bad episode, not a great one. But very very short.

Sad Professor

I found that episode very mediocre and boring. Michael just finding Spock on Vulcan was an anticlimax after all that searching for him. And I audibly groaned when Saru said "Oh Mr Stamets and the magical mycelial network can solve this plot problem". I'm getting really tired of this. Stamets is a potentially great character who they've wasted on this rubbish. Then there was Burnham's line: "you've always told me the truth, that's how I know you're lying". Stunning logic as always, Michael. Oh and I hate the Section 31 guy.

pixelburp

Again some of the cinematic flourishes were quite nice, specifically the scene transitions; the shuttles vapour trails turning into the engine rooms strip lighting for instance, or airiams eye turning into the dome ceiling of the section 31 bridge. Lovely stuff

Inviere

Was ok, not terrible, not outstanding. A temporal cold war? Mmm, where have I head of that one before...

The Talosian angle will be interesting. I feel I badly, badly need to rewatch this season in binge fashion once its finished, to better piece it together.

Inviere

Inviere wrote: »

Was ok, not terrible, not outstanding. A temporal cold war? Mmm, where have I head of that one before...

The Talosian angle will be interesting. I feel I badly, badly need to rewatch this season in binge fashion once its finished, to better piece it together.

Yeah, it's frustrating that a show, which is obviously designed with modern vuewing patterns in mind, is being hamstrung by CBS insisting on weekly episodes just to keep subscriptions to All-Access

Tristram

Great episode this week, can't wait to see what happens next!

Johnny Storm

Ash was really annoying in this one. Also what is the point of having one of the key characters in the last 50 years of Trek appear, if all he is going to do is babble incoherently?


On the other hand, Talos IV !!!

Stark

Looking at the preview for next week, I think they've nailed it with the Talosians design. Looks modern but still instantly recognisable unlike the **** up they did with the Klingons.

Blazer

Oh Christ that was goddamn awful.
I started skipping past sections especially anything with Tilly and Stammets.
How the hell can it go from very good from season 1 which I really enjoyed to complete crap fest for season 2.

fritzelly

Blazer wrote: »

Oh Christ that was goddamn awful.
I started skipping past sections especially anything with Tilly and Stammets.
How the hell can it go from very good from season 1 which I really enjoyed to complete crap fest for season 2.

It gets "worse and worse" and yet you still keep watching - boggles the mind that someone goes out of their way to spend 40-50 minutes watching something they don't abhor with a passion

Blazer

fritzelly wrote: »

It gets "worse and worse" and yet you still keep watching - boggles the mind that someone goes out of their way to spend 40-50 minutes watching something they don't abhor with a passion

Maybe because I hope it might improve?
Out of all the star treks this is by far the worse. I love Star Trek. I grew up with it but if it stays this bad I’ll stop watching discovery and hit up DS9

Goodshape

Really enjoyed that! Pretty great!

If nothing else, the camera work was much better than it has been. Everything looked fantastic.

Enjoyed the developments on the Search for Spock storyline, and having Burnham taking care of that off the ship and on her own gave the rest of the Discovery crew a bit of breathing room. Got some good interactions and character moments while they sorted out the time rift.

And the time-rift story was cool! Played out well in the episode and I'm really interested to see where it goes with Airiam, that data-breach, and just the timey-wimey stuff in general.

And just an A and B story going on this week. I enjoyed the slightly less frantic pace to some of the scenes.


Still some rotten telling-not-showing dialogue though, particularly between Amanda and Sarek this week.

Section 31 isn't adding anything good. I wish them gone.


Airiam is the Red Angel?

Rawr

Goodshape wrote: »

Still some rotten telling-not-showing dialogue though, particularly between Amanda and Sarek this week.

Agree there, that was kind of off.

Amanda: Sarek! It is now time for us to exposit about our whole relationship!

Sarek: What? Now, in the middle of this crisis?

Amanda: Yes, right now....with details....as if some who didn't even know us was watching.

Sarek: That seems illogical

Amanda: YOU'RE ILLOGICAL!

Sarek: :eek:

pixelburp

Blazer wrote: »

Maybe because I hope it might improve?
Out of all the star treks this is by far the worse. I love Star Trek. I grew up with it but if it stays this bad I’ll stop watching discovery and hit up DS9

Naw. It's not perfect but it hasn't hit anywhere near the lows of Enterprise season 1, or the resting badness of Voyager that pooped out "Threshold".

What is it that had changed between seasons that you enjoyed season 1 more?

AMKC

Blazer wrote: »

Oh Christ that was goddamn awful.
I started skipping past sections especially anything with Tilly and Stammets.
How the hell can it go from very good from season 1 which I really enjoyed to complete crap fest for season 2.

I disagree. Season 1 was terrible nothing like Star Trek at all. Try going back and watching episode 3 or 4 or season 1 after this season. I know I can' and have tried. This is so much better although this episode was not great season 2 has been really good up to this and am looking forward to next weeks episode.

Ash and section 31 need to go they add nothing to the show.

I was dissaponted that Spock was on his homeworld after all that searching. How could they not have known surely.

Inviere

I think because they're trying to do so much with the writing, in so little time/episodes, that one episode per week isn't the ideal format for watching. I've a feeling when this season is done, and I rewatch in binge fashion, I'll enjoy it a lot more.

Goodshape

I'm enjoying the one episode a week format to be honest.

pixelburp

Same, I hate binge watching. Hate binge anything TBH, but with shows I like the drip drip of tension and drama

Inviere

Goodshape wrote: »

I'm enjoying the one episode a week format to be honest.

pixelburp wrote: »

Same, I hate binge watching. Hate binge anything TBH, but with shows I like the drip drip of tension and drama

Must just be me then I much prefer to watch in quick succession.

Optimus Prime

I do as well , I rewatched season 1 and enjoyed it a lot more when watching in binge format.

Inviere

Optimus Prime wrote: »

I do as well , I rewatched season 1 and enjoyed it a lot more when watching in binge format.

I blame DS9. That show just shines when binge watching.

TheValeyard

Inviere wrote: »

I blame DS9. That show just shines when binge watching.

You can binge watch DS9 far easier than Voyager.

Inviere

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

You can binge watch DS9 far easier than Voyager.

I'm currently watching through Enterprise, mid way through Season 2. For whatever reason, I'm not hating it this time (I didn't enjoy it at all last time I watched through it). Yes it has flaws, and yes it has Travis Mayweather, but I've grown to like Archer, and T'Pol. Trip and Phlox are the standouts in it. But yeah, I like to binge on Trek

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Same, I hate binge watching. Hate binge anything TBH, but with shows I like the drip drip of tension and drama

I like both binge and weekly but it really depends on the presentation of the show.
This is being written like a standard Netflix binge-able but forced as a weekly. It's, for me, hurting the story as (like this week) you can end up with short episodes that cry to watch the next immediately becuse they have set themselves up for immediate continuation. Even the Expanse, with it's serial story, is more laid back in presentation so can be enjoyed slower. The break-neck pace of DSC is not suitable anymore.



I am watching Fillion's "The Rookie" weekly and, even though there is a constant theme to the show, it is not something that would benefit from a binge.

Inviere

Inviere wrote: »

I'm currently watching through Enterprise, mid way through Season 2. For whatever reason, I'm not hating it this time (I didn't enjoy it at all last time I watched through it). Yes it has flaws, and yes it has Travis Mayweather, but I've grown to like Archer, and T'Pol. Trip and Phlox are the standouts in it. But yeah, I like to binge on Trek

Enterprise suffered from a dire S1 and Berman/Braga rehashing and their over sexualisation of characters (Decontamination scenes!!). I mean they refused to call it Star Trek at first and that theme tune.

Many Coto had that purring by the end and didn't I read that they actually fecked up in cancelling as, at the time, they were not tracking delayed viewing figures.
Damn it but that one really pisses me off, we were so about to get Earth-Romulan war. That is what the entire show was building to, characters were starting to get a bit more relaxed too.

Also it felt like Bakula was cast on the back of Quantum Leap and then told to not act like Sam, from that show. So came across as wooden and uncomfortable, as opposed to the charm he had in QL

AMKC

Goodshape wrote: »

I'm enjoying the one episode a week format to be honest.

Me too. Have never binge watched anything. Just not for me.

Deleted User wrote: »

Enterprise suffered from a dire S1 and Berman/Braga rehashing and their over sexualisation of characters (Decontamination scenes!!). I mean they refused to call it Star Trek at first and that theme tune.

Many Coto had that purring by the end and didn't I read that they actually fecked up in cancelling as, at the time, they were not tracking delayed viewing figures.
Damn it but that one really pisses me off, we were so about to get Earth-Romulan war. That is what the entire show was building to, characters were starting to get a bit more relaxed too.

Also it felt like Bakula was cast on the back of Quantum Leap and then told to not act like Sam, from that show. So came across as wooden and uncomfortable, as opposed to the charm he had in QL

Many Coto had that purring by the end and didn't I read that they actually fecked up in cancelling as, at the time, they were not tracking delayed viewing figures.

If its the theme tune your on about I disagree. I preferred it in season 1 and 2 before they ruined it.
That's right they fecked up alright. Season 5 could have been awesome.

Also it felt like Bakula was cast on the back of Quantum Leap and then told to not act like Sam, from that show. So came across as wooden and uncomfortable, as opposed to the charm he had in QL

Agree totally which was a pity but there is a few episodes in season 3 and 4 where he is less that and more the Captain he should have been for the show.

Blazer

pixelburp wrote: »

What is it that had changed between seasons that you enjoyed season 1 more?

To me the story line is far inferior to Season 1. I'm actually trying to remember if the mirror universe was s1 or s2 it seems that long ago. I know now its S2 but once they got back my god the story sucked. And as for the Spock rubbish and Amanda.
Tilly is seriously annoying me now. Even Stammets is off-putting.
Suru for the last few 2-3 episodes has definitely seem off and his speech seems to be more stilted as if he's having difficulty remembering his lines.
I did like the Suru oriented episode. Hated the Tilly one.
Oh and I hated Voyager season 1..Voyager I kinda tolerated as a loose Star Trek.
My favourite was always TNG and DS9. Can never decide which one I preferred more. I reckon DS9 shades it for the stories and characters...fantastic setting.
I'll give Discovery a chance for the 2nd season and see if it gets better otherwise I'll be dropping it.

fritzelly

I thought Enterprise was getting far better towards the end - was enjoying the Xindi story line. Disappointed when cancelled but it shouldn't have taken them so long to work what worked. Tough call to go back to basics but still make it relevant and futuristic

As for binge watching, there are some shows that have that 10 episode super movie and need to be binged, then other shows where they are episodic and one a week is perfect.

pixelburp

I just find that if I binge watch I just burn out on a show much quicker, patience unravelling by 2,3 successive hours of the same show.

That and I only have so many hours free in the evening - don't feel like wasting them on a single show

fritzelly

pixelburp wrote: »

I just find that if I binge watch I just burn out on a show much quicker, patience unravelling by 2,3 successive hours of the same show.

That and I only have so many hours free in the evening - don't feel like wasting them on a single show

Breaking news - you don't need to watch them all in one weekend, I generally watch them over 5 days or so. Maybe its my failing memory but it's good to have the story fresh in mind as I watch the consecutive episodes over a few nights.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

I just find that if I binge watch I just burn out on a show much quicker, patience unravelling by 2,3 successive hours of the same show.

That and I only have so many hours free in the evening - don't feel like wasting them on a single show

My "binge" would be an episode a night. Two under 5 year old kids means very limited screen time in evening