Bell Etiquette

schemingbohemia

So was cycling along Parnell Road beside the Grand Canal the other morning. Lots of slow moving vehicular traffic, I wasn't going at any great pace when I come to a slower moving cyclist ahead of me, no chance to get past so take my time behind her.
A couple of other cyclists thought they had room and overtook both me and her. I waited until there was a bit more space and then tinkled my bell to let her know I was coming and overtook her - she says as I overtake - "Ding Ding yourself" - is it wrong to use your bell to let someone know you're overtaking?
I wasn't using it as a "get out of my way" just to let her know that I was overtaking as with all the drains there she might have veered to the right as I was doing so.
So should I shout instead, say nothing or continue to tinkle my bell and not worry about reactions?

Macy0161

I use my bell for the same reason - to let people I'm overtaking know I am there (in the context of other cyclists). I used to just say "on your right" or "coming through on your right" but according to a previous thread on here apparently that was wrong too...

I think some people just want to be offended, but it could just be she was getting stressed with the traffic and passes and was venting in general. So my opinion is carry on using your bell.

jim o doom

I think the majority of people simply overtake. Cars don't beep at each other when they are overtaking and pedestrians don't shout or speak when overtaking other pedestrians.. why would you ring a bell at someone?

They will be aware you are overtaking them when you go past them, same as every other mode of transport. There is also no need to shout at them either. Just signal as necessary and overtake.

Look at it this way; how often do you see overtaking cyclists make any indication to the person they are overtaking? For me it is never. I'd be confused as to why someone was ringing their bell at me when they overtook.

DavyD_83

I'd take it as equivalent of beeping a you pass somebody when driving.
Generally indicates that the person was in some way in the wrong and 'in your way'.
The response you received sounds fairly typical, especially if as you say other had already passed her, so there was obviously enough space being left etc.

What did you intend to indicate or achieve by ringing the bell?

schemingbohemia

I'd rather people let me know they are overtaking me (where there is limited overtaking space) given the occasional need to move off my line due to potholes or drains, I don't tinkle every overtake!
To be honest the other two cyclists who overtook her went too close to her in my mind, if she had veered off course even a little bit there could have been a collision, I was simply making her aware that I was about to overtake so she should ensure she stayed straight.

greenwaving

jim o doom wrote: »

I think the majority of people simply overtake. Cars don't beep at each other when they are overtaking and pedestrians don't shout or speak when overtaking other pedestrians.. why would you ring a bell at someone?

They will be aware you are overtaking them when you go past them, same as every other mode of transport. There is also no need to shout at them either. Just signal as necessary and overtake.

Look at it this way; how often do you see overtaking cyclists make any indication to the person they are overtaking? For me it is never. I'd be confused as to why someone was ringing their bell at me when they overtook.

I would agree with above. I don't a bell is necessary. From your piece OP it sounds like the other cyclists overtook with too little space so maybe thats why she was annoyed by the time you were passing even if you were giving her the space required? I know it makes me feel vulnerable when other cyclists fly past skimming my handlebars - I can never understand it given how aware most cyclists are of the dangers of close passes by motor vehicles. While cyclists close passing each other doesnt carry the same level of danger as when cars do it they are still a risk for both cyclists and make the person being passed feel just as vulnerable imo

homer911

I can see both sides to this and get annoyed when other cyclists DONT use a bell (mainly because they dont have one). I would prefer to hear a bell than not, but would like it hear it when the overtaking cyclist is at least a bike-length away. The number of times when I've been cycling along at what I think is a brisk pace and either someone tries to squeeze by me unannounced, or they suddenly do a loud ring on a bell when they are already up by bum..

Despite that, its better than veering right to avoid a pothole just as I'm being overtaken..

tommythecat

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I'd rather people let me know they are overtaking me (where there is limited overtaking space) given the occasional need to move off my line due to potholes or drains, I don't tinkle every overtake!
To be honest the other two cyclists who overtook her went too close to her in my mind, if she had veered off course even a little bit there could have been a collision, I was simply making her aware that I was about to overtake so she should ensure she stayed straight.

In fairness it isn't up to her to make your overtake easier. If she needs to avoid a pothole when you are overtaking her it's your responsibility to have left her room to do that. So saying that ringing your bell somehow puts the onus on her to "stay straight" is unreasonable in my opinion.
I wouldn't ring the bell it will just irritate people.

Wishbone Ash

I'd find it annoying if someone rang their bell while passing me while cycling in a normal fashion.. Totally unnecessary. If space is limited why not wait until it's safer. The only time I'd consider it acceptable would be if a cyclist was weaving all over the road/cycle track.

Some motorcyclists sound their horn when overtaking cyclists but they don't do it while overtaking other motorcyclists. Don't know why.

Alanstrainor

I don't do it generally, but when I do I would say thanks as I pass. It might make more sense to the other cyclist then. Most don't use bells, and most don't know of any etiquette, so I can see how the person got mad as a result. I've been sworn at by pedestrians in bike lanes when I ring mine, full on aggression, so I reckon most just see it as a car horn equivalent.

OleRodrigo

Depends on the tone.

A loud BRING BRRING can come off as ' Outta my way missus '

A short DING will say ' coming up on the right '

Best not use the bell, just overtake quickly and leave her some space, with a flick of the left hand to say ' excuse me ' .

Bells are best for the smartphone pedestrian about to step out in front of you. In the absence of a bell , an inner city drug dealers whistle will catch attention (if you can perfect it - but a half assed effort is still effective )

schemingbohemia

Ok so no agreement on etiquette, fair enough.
It was definitely a short Ding rather than a long ding just to be clear.

I had waited quite some time to overtake in what I regarded as a safe manner where I would be giving her a lot more space than the previous cyclists had.
I'm not a quick cyclist at all and where possible on that road I do keep to the left to leave as much space as I can for other cyclists to overtake me.

Macy0161

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd find it annoying if someone rang their bell while passing me while cycling in a normal fashion.. Totally unnecessary. If space is limited why not wait until it's safer. The only time I'd consider it acceptable would be if a cyclist was weaving all over the road/cycle track.

Just to clarify, I don't do it every time I overtake, it's normally if someone is weaving, or taking the centre of the lane, when a slight shift to the left would allow an overtake.

Chartsengrafs

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Ok so no agreement on etiquette, fair enough.
It was definitely a short Ding rather than a long ding just to be clear.

I had waited quite some time to overtake in what I regarded as a safe manner where I would be giving her a lot more space than the previous cyclists had.
I'm not a quick cyclist at all and where possible on that road I do keep to the left to leave as much space as I can for other cyclists to overtake me.

Don’t worry about how much space the previous person left, that’s irrelevant.
If you feel you could pass the slower cyclist safely, without endangering her or yourself, then there’s absolutely no need to ring a bell.

ED E

"On your right".




Sidenote: Apologies to the cyclist at Lamb Doyles last Sunday, scared the living daylights out of him when calling him out to the club members behind.

martyc5674

I think we don’t use bells enough in this country.
It’s important the bell has a pleasant tone if that makes any sense.
I use mine a fair bit on shared surfaces where you have a lot of pedestrians etc that might have headphones on or might be in their own little world.
I’d always pass leaving plenty of space and slowing down a little to ensure I don’t come across as aggressive.
I’d often use it in circumstances where sailing past might spook someone... but I’d ring way ahead.
I think it’s just courtesy... in France if you hear a bell you just move over... I suppose out on the road there should be less use for it but as greenways etc start to develop in this country it’s a good thing to have on the bike.
I encourage my kids to use them all the time, but to use them in time and not aggressively.
Marty.

Benny Biscotti

Safety should trump etiquette. I would continue to use the bell in the manner you said; if they are weaving in and out. The amount of cyclists I see moving out to the right before looking or not looking at all.

The bell is for precisely this reason. If people take it in annoyance well that's the way they choose to see it, it's not your fault.

Lumen

schemingbohemia wrote: »

she says as I overtake - "Ding Ding yourself"

The correct response to this is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV0lKD3KPsc

Wishbone Ash

Benny Biscotti wrote: »

...If people take it in annoyance well that's the way they choose to see it, it's not your fault.

Have you read the first post? The cyclist the OP passed was not weaving in and out, hence her annoyance at the unnecessary use of a bell.

When you are driving, do you sound a horn at every other vehicle you pass?

Peter T

IF you're being overtaken in a car there's a good chance you'll spot them in your mirror and hopefully vice versa. I wouldn't take offence to someone ringing a bell, someone isnt going to know you're there unless they look over a shoulder. I dont commute on my bike just head out for spins but if I'm catching someone I usually give a "Rider up" so they know I'm there and will be passing

tomasrojo

I brought up this subject before (more about the "on your right" business rather than bells). My objection was that people who do it (outside the context of club cycling and competitions) are usually passing with centimetres to spare, and their warnings aren't courteous; they're excusing their terrible passing and their impatience.

(Not saying the OP was passing with centimetres to spare.)

work

tommythecat wrote: »

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I'd rather people let me know they are overtaking me (where there is limited overtaking space) given the occasional need to move off my line due to potholes or drains, I don't tinkle every overtake!
To be honest the other two cyclists who overtook her went too close to her in my mind, if she had veered off course even a little bit there could have been a collision, I was simply making her aware that I was about to overtake so she should ensure she stayed straight.

In fairness it isn't up to her to make your overtake easier. If she needs to avoid a pothole when you are overtaking her it's your responsibility to have left her room to do that. So saying that ringing your bell somehow puts the onus on her to "stay straight" is unreasonable in my opinion.
I wouldn't ring the bell it will just irritate people.

This is completely wrong the terrible bike lanes can require evasive action any time and if separated will not leave room for avoiding a colission. As such using your legally required (I believe?) is a good idea. I feel safer ringing to overtake and do it all the time. I do it well in advance of overtaking

CramCycle

It's a rare occasion in Ireland where someone using a bell isn't being a pr1ck. Passing with an inch to spare and not actually even waiting to to see if it was noticed, most treat it as a, I've rang my bell, therefore I'm entitled to pass. This is why bell users rarely get unpleasant responses. Some do use bells properly, ring before being right up your ass, only ring once or twice, wait for some indication they were heard. I used to have and use one but the small number of tosspots on the n11 and elsewhere made me not want to look like a pr1ck as well or be confused with them. Get a wheel with a loud freewheel and sit back far enough that your not up their ass, if they don't notice wait until an opportunity to overtake safely without any action from them eg being able to go completely into the lane beside you presents itself.

If you insist on using one, I'd recommend one of the friendlier sounding Dutch bells, ring once or twice before your behind them and if they don't notice leave it. Do not ring it as you pass or are just starting the overtake as you may startle them.

magicbastarder

you could just sing loudly as you cycled?

maybe not as assertively as this though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehh8ZdIMMj4

tommythecat

work wrote: »

This is completely wrong the terrible bike lanes can require evasive action any time and if separated will not leave room for avoiding a colission. As such using your legally required (I believe?) is a good idea. I feel safer ringing to overtake and do it all the time. I do it well in advance of overtaking

What am I wrong about exactly? Ringing the bell doesn’t make your overtake any safer if you haven’t left room for them to avoid obstacles in front of them safely. The onus is on you to make sure you are overtaking safely, not them.

tomasrojo

tommythecat wrote: »

What am I wrong about exactly? Ringing the bell doesn’t make your overtake any safer if you haven’t left room for them to avoid obstacles in front of them safely. The onus is on you to make sure you are overtaking safely, not them.

Yeah, if you're passing so closely that you're worried them changing line in a small way will result in a collision, then you're carrying out a dangerous passing manoeuvre.

martyc5674

tomasrojo wrote: »

Yeah, if you're passing so closely that you're worried them changing line in a small way will result in a collision, then you're carrying out a dangerous passing manoeuvre.

Nail on the head. That’s what it boils down to... some are using it as a “watch out” as I’m not gonna slow down others to alert as to their presence, then of course you have people waiting in the long grass to be offended.
Marty.

homer911

Cycling along the N11 cycle path this morning when I had to swerve to avoid a slightly sunken man-hole cover, at precisely the moment a cyclist from behind decided to overtake me! Our bikes interlocked for a couple of seconds before we mutually extracted ourselves and carried on. While I felt somewhat responsible and apologized during the tryst, why oh why cant fellow cyclists (a) buy and use a bell and (b) leave reasonable space when overtaking another cyclist. The 1.5m is not just for cars..

ULMarc

I think ringing a bell is a good thing. Though, I am fearful of other's attitudes when I use my own bell.

vektarman

Sometimes it's hard to know how people react to a bell ringing behind them. I was on the cycle path in the Phoenix Park a couple of weeks ago, didn't ring the bell and I got a torrent of abuse for not warning the walker in the lane ahead of me of my approach.
A week later, same situation, this time I gave the bell a gentle ring to warn the walker ahead of me on the cycle path, this time I got a sneering look and a "so you got a bell for your birthday" remark. It's a no win. :rolleyes:

Alanstrainor

ED E wrote: »

"On your right".

This is the solution to lots of these posts.

Even though I have a bell, I'm reluctant to use it around other cyclists as a surprising % take offence. There was a comparison made about cars not beeping every time they overtake, but cars have mirrors and make noise. A cyclist overtaking another cyclist is a silent operation and a courtesy ring or noise is a good thing. It's a pity a lot don't seem to understand this though.

km991148

I wouldn't do or say anything as I overtake, I would simply make sure I had enough space to complete the maneuver and it was safe to so (same as any other vehicle really).

One thing I notice is that often cyclist will overtaking without checking over their right shoulder (to see if there is someone else doing an overtaking maneuver).

rubadub

I have no issue with somebody ringing a bell. I will often have faster people approach from behind and am well aware of them, but they might not know this. So I will often look back and acknowledge them and veer to the left a little and stop pedalling so they know I am aware and expecting them to pass -and also that I am unlikely to suddenly swing out. Some will say thanks or give a wave or some signal of appreciation

Ringing the bell doesn’t make your overtake any safer if you haven’t left room for them to avoid obstacles in front of them safely

I think it can make things safer for the person being passed, a person might swerve out to miss a fairly benign leaf, crisp packet, slightly rough spot etc -while if they heard a bell or somebody saying "on your right" they know it would be safer to cycle over that leaf rather than swing out. They might still think the person is a prick but are better off taking what is now the safer option.

Cars don't beep at each other when they are overtaking and pedestrians don't shout or speak when overtaking other pedestrians.. why would you ring a bell at someone?

I have heard/seen pedestrians do it, a simply "sorry there" on very tight footpaths. If I was in a car and had not been passed for ages, and the driver somehow knew I had no mirrors then I would not mind a tiny beep from a silent electric car behind to let me know of their presence. (I just see the post now saying cars have mirrors & noise.)

DavyD_83

vektarman wrote: »

Sometimes it's hard to know how people react to a bell ringing behind them. I was on the cycle path in the Phoenix Park a couple of weeks ago, didn't ring the bell and I got a torrent of abuse for not warning the walker in the lane ahead of me of my approach.
A week later, same situation, this time I gave the bell a gentle ring to warn the walker ahead of me on the cycle path, this time I got a sneering look and a "so you got a bell for your birthday" remark. It's a no win. :rolleyes:

Ring the bell all you like at pedestrians who are in the way. Same as you would beep a person standing in the road when driving.
Somebody actively getting in the way by standing/walking/dismounting on the cycle path or road shouldn't be there and almost always deserves all bell ringing, shouting etc at your disposal.

I still think ringing your bell at another cyclist who is going slower and therefore 'in your way' is being a bit of a **** in most scenarios. Cyclists can get stuck in traffic too, just gotta sick it up till the is actually enough space to pass

CramCycle

Macy0161 wrote: »

I use my bell for the same reason - to let people I'm overtaking know I am there (in the context of other cyclists). I used to just say "on your right" or "coming through on your right" but according to a previous thread on here apparently that was wrong too...

I think some people just want to be offended, but it could just be she was getting stressed with the traffic and passes and was venting in general. So my opinion is carry on using your bell.

If I recognise the cyclist and know they are OK (a very small subset I know), or they look behind and acknowledge me, I overtake on the bike path. If they don't and I am significantly faster, I hop into the bus lane when clear and carry on. The guy on the N11 with the bell that he uses constantly and in situations where the other party cannot accomodate him is the reason i don't use them. He is actually a massive ******* and I don't want people to think of me in the same league as him.

ED E

Alanstrainor wrote: »

A cyclist overtaking another cyclist is a silent operation

Not with some of the freehubs out there :pac:

plodder

The only time I use the bell is when passing sheep on the road. They don't seem to take offence. I'd consider using it if there are pedestrians taking up the whole width of a bike lane, and there's no reason for them to be there. Though, looking at that video above, it's a vain hope in that case; there are so many pedestrians about.

nomdeboardie

CramCycle wrote: »

If I recognise the cyclist and know they are OK (a very small subset I know), or they look behind and acknowledge me, I overtake on the bike path. If they don't and I am significantly faster, I hop into the bus lane when clear and carry on. The guy on the N11 with the bell that he uses constantly and in situations where the other party cannot accomodate him is the reason i don't use them. He is actually a massive ******* and I don't want people to think of me in the same league as him.

On the infrequent occasions I come up behind a slower cyclist I usually drop down to the road too, if safe; this sometimes results in me shouting and gesticulating back at the path to a bus or taxi that arrives afterwards but before there's an opportunity to roll back on the path, and harasses me. (This is one of the reasons I have problems with most of the "off road cycling infrastructure" - too narrow for safe overtaking without having to alert the person in front, and alerting is too socially awkward!) If it's a pedestrian (usually with headphones and/or dogs) I add a dirty look backwards with head-shake from the road. I usually avoid 'shared use' paths through parks also, as about half the walkers are in the middle of the path, even if alone, or on the wrong side, or playing with a dog - if anywhere should be suitable for bell this situation, but again, I can't imagine having and using a bell, so I usually go past on the grass with a head shake.

CramCycle

nomdeboardie wrote: »

On the infrequent occasions I come up behind a slower cyclist I usually drop down to the road too, if safe; this sometimes results in me shouting and gesticulating back at the path to a bus or taxi that arrives afterwards but before there's an opportunity to roll back on the path, and harasses me. (This is one of the reasons I have problems with most of the "off road cycling infrastructure" - too narrow for safe overtaking without having to alert the person in front, and alerting is too socially awkward!) If it's a pedestrian (usually with headphones and/or dogs) I add a dirty look backwards with head-shake from the road. I usually avoid 'shared use' paths through parks also, as about half the walkers are in the middle of the path, even if alone, or on the wrong side, or playing with a dog - if anywhere should be suitable for bell this situation, but again, I can't imagine having and using a bell, so I usually go past on the grass with a head shake.

Its funny how you can tell the regular bus and taxi drivers on that road, they typically just wait, which is fine for me, i often given them a wave when I pull in and get one in return. You then get the ones who go mental, not realising that in reality they are not being delayed at all and you will be gone in a minute. These are usually driven by stars of TV3s next hard hitting documentary, Irelands stupidest drivers.

Rechuchote

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I waited until there was a bit more space and then tinkled my bell to let her know I was coming and overtook her - she says as I overtake - "Ding Ding yourself"

She was being boorish. Very ill-mannered of her.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd find it annoying if someone rang their bell while passing me while cycling in a normal fashion.

Read what schemingbohemia says: she or he tinkled the bell before passing. That's just polite.

I use my bell constantly when cycling along streets where there are many pedestrians and there's a danger they'll step out in front of me - eg Dame Street, Nassau Street, O'Connell Street. Though that's more a matter of faith than morals, because I've often had people step out with their back to me and other traffic while wearing earphones…

I also use my bell when going along paths, eg Milltown Park, and approaching people walking and obviously engrossed in conversation or listening to the radio or walking their dogs. It hasn't stopped people leaping out in front of me then shouting "Why didn't you ring your bloddy bell?" :eek:

I'd much sooner someone would give a tinkle on the bell before passing me, I get an awful fright when some great lug whizzes close past me at speed and without warning - a really dangerous thing to do, as I might easily have to move out to avoid a stone or pothole.

jim o doom

Rechuchote wrote: »

I also use my bell when going along paths, eg Milltown Park, and approaching people walking and obviously engrossed in conversation or listening to the radio or walking their dogs.

On the footpath.. if that is what you mean by "path", the pedestrian has the right of way there. If it's a cycle path fair enough, but ringing at people to get out of the way, where you shouldn't really be in the first place? That's a bit crap.

1874

jim o doom wrote: »

I think the majority of people simply overtake. Cars don't beep at each other when they are overtaking and pedestrians don't shout or speak when overtaking other pedestrians.. why would you ring a bell at someone?

They will be aware you are overtaking them when you go past them, same as every other mode of transport. There is also no need to shout at them either. Just signal as necessary and overtake.

Look at it this way; how often do you see overtaking cyclists make any indication to the person they are overtaking? For me it is never. I'd be confused as to why someone was ringing their bell at me when they overtook.

Theres no comparison though,
bicycles can and do move along quite silently, and a bell is better to call out a warning, here I am, people can take offence so easily over a spoken comment, but a bell means Im here, Im coming through, its a courtesy, seeing it any other way is ridiculous.
Being aware when they are overtaking you is too late,
If this really has to be explained to people and other cyclists in general, I shouldnt be, but Im dumbfounded, I really have believed it for quite some time, after being offended for being labelled stupid for how long? It turns out in the main, the Irish really are thick.

what_traffic

Interesting thread.
What is the RSA position or instructions on it?

I could only find the following
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Campaigns/Wrecked/Downloads/Cycle%20safety%20booklet.pdf

apart from stating the following (which is correct)

“It’s the law to have a bell on your bike at all
times and to have working lights.”

cannot find any information on when to use a bell.

CramCycle

1874 wrote: »

Theres no comparison though,
bicycles can and do move along quite silently, and a bell is better to call out a warning, here I am, people can take offence so easily over a spoken comment, but a bell means Im here, Im coming through, its a courtesy, seeing it any other way is ridiculous.

People take offence at a bell declaring you are coming through, and giving it as a courtesy. A spoken word can ask for permission or excuse yourself etc. I find the spoken word can be far more effective.

jim o doom

1874 wrote: »

Theres no comparison though,
bicycles can and do move along quite silently, and a bell is better to call out a warning, here I am, people can take offence so easily over a spoken comment, but a bell means Im here, Im coming through, its a courtesy, seeing it any other way is ridiculous.
Being aware when they are overtaking you is too late,
If this really has to be explained to people and other cyclists in general, I shouldnt be, but Im dumbfounded, I really have believed it for quite some time, after being offended for being labelled stupid for how long? It turns out in the main, the Irish really are thick.

Have you ever driven a car or ridden a motorcycle? There is a very obvious and direct comparison.

If you are in a car with very good seals, or have a radio on.. guess what, you don't hear any traffic. A motorcycle can come along suddenly and overtake, which is a surprise due to the lack of sound.

The same is true on a motorcycle, if it has a loud engine / pipes, the only thing you can hear is.. your own engine and the sound of wind whistling through your helmet. Again, a faster driving motorcycle / vehicle can appear suddenly, surprising you as it overtakes.

In both of the above situations - the overtaking vehicle generally will not sound their horn. Because it's not the done thing, that is not the use of the horn, it's more likely to DISTRACT the person you are ovetaking, as they are trying to ascertain WHY exactly you are beeping at them, the same is true of a bell.

If I heard someone ringing behind me who then overtook, I would be wondering "what is wrong with that r/tard with their bloody bell". It rarely happens as I cycle quickly to get home fast in a sweaty heap though.

Also - a bell means "I'm here, I'm coming through?" As in, give me the right of way? If you are overtaking someone, you don't need that as you don't have the right of way.

Either overtake in the car lane if there is space to do so and traffic is moving, or don't dangerously overtake in an insufficiently sized cycling lane.

jim o doom

From reading through the posts the following is clear:

There is a stark difference of opinion, some people think ringing a bell to overtake makes sense, and an equal amount of others do not. This includes the person who was being overtaken by the OP "ring ring yourself" having been stated by that person.

This means when you ring your bell to overtake (assuming you think that is the correct route), that the person who is the focus of your bell ring is likely to take it either way. Either "oh thanks for ringing at me" or "what a twit with a bell".

If half the people you are ringing your bell at as you overtake do not want you to do it, and will be annoyed at hearing it (as there are plenty of people posting in this thread who disagree with it, myself included), then WHY are are you doing it?

EVEN if you think it's the right thing to do, you are simply being a very arrogant road user since you are doing it to a large number of other cyclists who have no interest in hearing your ringing your bell at them. You confuse and/or annoy those cyclists when all they should be doing is paying attention to the road.

The very fact that there is no clear "should I or shouldn't I ring my bell at this point", and that plenty of people think it's the wrong thing to do, should in itself be a guidance to not do it.

Lumen

Macy0161 wrote: »

I use my bell for the same reason - to let people I'm overtaking know I am there (in the context of other cyclists). I used to just say "on your right" or "coming through on your right" but according to a previous thread on here apparently that was wrong too...

I may have said the same in that thread, but the problem with "on your right" is that if the recipient isn't used to hearing it, they may just hear "<something> RIGHT" and take it as instruction.

I actually experienced this with a runner up in the Wicklow hills last year. He was running away from me bang in the centre of the road. What to do? I chose "on your right", he veered right, I almost hit him. I left loads of space, but he was very nimble.

I put this (and the bell overtake issue) in the same class of problem as "do I indicate to drivers behind that I think they are OK to overtake", and reach the same conclusion: don't do it, because you have no idea how they will act on it, and you risk being partly at fault.

Rechuchote

jim o doom wrote: »

On the footpath.. if that is what you mean by "path", the pedestrian has the right of way there. If it's a cycle path fair enough, but ringing at people to get out of the way, where you shouldn't really be in the first place? That's a bit crap.

I made two references to footpaths; one was along busy streets, where I use the bell to warn people not to wander out without looking as I ride my bike along. The other was the path through Milltown Park, which is divided along the centre, with one side for bicycles and the other for pedestrians.

In neither case am I ringing my bell to tell people to get out of the way. In both cases I'm politely letting people know that I'm there.

tomasrojo

There are a few small cases where I find it useful to ring a bell.

The most compelling one is going around blind corners, such as on the cycleway from the Sandyford Road out to Marlay Park. The route shouldn't have blind corners with cyclists in close proximity going in opposite directions, but it does, and ringing the bell did help to avoid a collision between me going in one direction and two guys cycling side by side in the other direction going round the blind corner one day.

If you're passing a parked van and there are some people around the front of it that you think might walk out into the road to access something in the van is a similar case.

The other is to let someone know that if they continue on their current trajectory that you're going to collide. Such as pedestrians about to step off the footpath without looking in your direction, cyclists about to ignore the yield sign on their side road, that sort of thing.

But overtaking, you don't need to ring a bell or on-your-right. If the person you're passing is the type that habitually wanders way off-line, they're also the type of person who has no idea what "on your right" means, and they're also the type who'll assume you ringing a bell means you want them to make room for you, or that you're chastising them in some way.

buffalo

jim o doom wrote: »

The very fact that there is no clear "should I or shouldn't I ring my bell at this point", and that plenty of people think it's the wrong thing to do, should in itself be a guidance to not do it.

I understand your point, but in my 20+ years of cycling I've come across more situations where I've regretted to a greater degree not ringing a bell (or at times, not having a bell to ring) than where I've regretted ringing a bell. I've never been actively given out to for ringing a bell for instance.

I find it most useful in parks when people occupy the width of a path 2 or 3 abreast or with dogs and don't notice your approach. It's of limited use in urban areas trying to prevent people stepping out in front of you - I'd be more inclined just to leave space for them to pop out.

buffalo

Also, pro tip: ring your bell from a distance. Ringing from 15-30m away gives more time for people to become aware, and if they turn or move in a weird way, there's plenty of time to brake.

I wouldn't ring right behind someone as I'm about to overtake them, as you're as likely to give them a fright as just overtaking without warning.