Calls to ban James Bond number plates..

drunkmonkey

Ross at it again, not happy that we've all given up the drink he wants us to get caught speeding now as well. Won't be happy until we're pushing our cars up the M50.

"James Bond-style revolving or retractable licence plates are being used by boy racers to avoid paying tolls and speeding fines, gardaí are warning.

Officers say that devices which can be purchased online for as little as €70 are being installed onto cars, which allows drivers to shield their licence plates from detection at the press of a button.

Transport Minister Shane Ross has been called on to “ban them immediately”. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/boy-racers-are-using-james-bond-style-retractable-licence-plates-to-dodge-tolls-and-fines-907350.html

The plates in question https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stealth-car-number-reg-plate-hide-shutter-Euro-license-registration-curtain-fees-/163036099154

Markcheese

And...?

Suckler

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ross at it again, not happy that we've all given up the drink

Have we? Pubs/nightclubs/off licenses/wine bars/restaurants etc. haven't been told this....

drunkmonkey wrote: »

he wants us to get caught speeding now as well.

Not just him. I'm happy to see you get caught speeding. In any case, that line you've written is a lie.

As you included in your own post :

drunkmonkey wrote: »

"James Bond-style revolving or retractable licence plates are being used by boy racers to avoid paying tolls and speeding fines

Atoms for Peace

Obscuring your plates is surely a crime already? The usual story of bringing in new legislation while the present rules aren't being enforced.

alchemist33

"A comment from Mr Ross was sought but was not forthcoming"


How can "Ross be at it again" when he hasn't actually said anything? Why did you post a link and not read the article?

Alf Veedersane

What's wrong with banning those plates and what does it have to do with not being allowed to drink and drive?

Tefral

They are illegal already so just like other motor laws just enforce them.

It's very prescriptive in the construction, equipment and use of vehicles act on how plates are to be fitted and that article also says the finance act covers it too.

Storm in a tea cup.

johnmcdnl

What's the issue with banning them?

Isn't it an offence to have the wrong number plate displayed, so you'd be prosecuted for using one of these in any case.

amcalester

**** them, if they use the road they can pay the toll.

Peregrinus

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Obscuring your plates is surely a crime already? The usual story of bringing in new legislation while the present rules aren't being enforced.

The usual story of not asking why the present rules are not being enforced. While it is an offence to fail to display your number plates, identifying drivers who fail to display their plates can be difficult (for obvious reasons), esp. if they can easily display them or not at the touch of a button. And if you can't identify them, you can't prosecute them. So a law which bans the sale of these devices, or bans having them fitted to your car, may be much easier to enforce than the present law which simply penalises their use.

drunkmonkey

Tefral wrote: »

They are illegal already so just like other motor laws just enforce them.

My back plates would be illegal then going by the article, the plate sits in a frame and the frame is attached to the car, kinda looks like the ones there on about unfortunately fitted by the dealer and not Q.

salmocab

Just for some clarification OP do you want to be able to speed and drink drive or do you think you should only do one at a time?

drunkmonkey

salmocab wrote: »

Just for some clarification OP do you want to be able to speed and drink drive or do you think you should only do one at a time?

If you can manage both more power to you, I'd be happy with Ross spontaneously combusting though.

salmocab

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If you can manage both more power to you, I'd be happy with Ross spontaneously combusting though.

You seem angry about something

theteal

Really stretching for some outrage there, OP

drunkmonkey

salmocab wrote: »

You seem angry about something

Paying for Ross's pension does irk me a little.

Alf Veedersane

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Paying for Ross's pension does irk me a little.

What is the problem with banning these plates?

Henry Ford III

The worst behaved boy racers have never been dealt with adequately.

B-D-P--

1. I find it odd that a system to block a numberplate is not already banned.

2. Is there that many people using them that Shane Ross needed to speak out about it or is he just "clickbaiting talk"?

Liam McPoyle

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ross at it again, not happy that we've all given up the drink he wants us to get caught speeding now as well. Won't be happy until we're pushing our cars up the M50.

"James Bond-style revolving or retractable licence plates are being used by boy racers to avoid paying tolls and speeding fines, gardaí are warning.

Officers say that devices which can be purchased online for as little as €70 are being installed onto cars, which allows drivers to shield their licence plates from detection at the press of a button.

Transport Minister Shane Ross has been called on to “ban them immediately”. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/boy-racers-are-using-james-bond-style-retractable-licence-plates-to-dodge-tolls-and-fines-907350.html

The plates in question https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stealth-car-number-reg-plate-hide-shutter-Euro-license-registration-curtain-fees-/163036099154

So you expect to allowed to drink and drive?

As far as I'm concerned there should a zero tolerance approach to DD. Any alcohol consumed before driving should result in a ban. If people can't manage that then they don't deserve to be allowed drive anyway.

ednwireland

Ross seems to think new laws fix everything rather than enforce the existing ones. a malaise that seems to exist in politics generally. easier to say you brought in a law than actually fix anything.

micks_address

These are cool... Would it be ok to have one if you just had different style plates with same numbers?

fancy pigeon

Thought these were illegal anyway?

theteal

What about a little set of auto-curtains?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

It's already illegal to not have a license plate displayed on the vehicle.

Disappointed at OP because previously I liked their posts

Saw gardai catch one of these a few months ago , was an Audi too funny enough :rolleyes:

drunkmonkey

Liam McPoyle wrote: »

So you expect to allowed to drink and drive?

I expect a decent rural transport service that runs at times when people need to get to or from work and a safe way home after a few pints.
I'd also expect a minister for transport to actually do something about making it happen rather than weasel his way out of it by calling anyone that takes him to task on it a Healy Ray.

Isambard

we have a few boy racers locally, they're decent lads who spend all their money on their cars and can't afford to do anything else but park up somewhere and have the craic.

I don't believe revolving numberplates are an issue anyone need worry about, if they exist it will be in tiny numbers, much better to concentrate efforts on illegal cars...those not insured taxed and NCTd (not to mention not properly licensed) would be a much bigger problem, and stopping such drivers might well throw up numberplate irregularities too.

salmocab

B-D-P-- wrote: »

1. I find it odd that a system to block a numberplate is not already banned.

2. Is there that many people using them that Shane Ross needed to speak out about it or is he just "clickbaiting talk"?

Shane Ross said nothing it was raised by others and the examiner said a response wasn’t forthcoming from him.
Nobody thinks he’s a waste more than me but on this story it’s nothing whatsoever to do with Ross.

Zubeneschamali

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Obscuring your plates is surely a crime already?

Yes, but you would have to catch the driver with the plates obscured.


If you stop them and they have trick plates but they are not obscured at that moment, then they are OK.

artanevilla

Atlantic Dawn

Knowing this country they will setup a separate branch of Customs to intercept packages of 520 mm × 111 mm coming through the post rather than use existing legislation.

Del2005

Peregrinus wrote: »

The usual story of not asking why the present rules are not being enforced. While it is an offence to fail to display your number plates, identifying drivers who fail to display their plates can be difficult (for obvious reasons), esp. if they can easily display them or not at the touch of a button. And if you can't identify them, you can't prosecute them. So a law which bans the sale of these devices, or bans having them fitted to your car, may be much easier to enforce than the present law which simply penalises their use.

Much like they are doing so well keeping all the other illegal items out of the country banning the sale of these will make no difference as they will still be bought online instead of in a store here. Are these even available in a bricks and mortar store here?

Peregrinus

Del2005 wrote: »

Much like they are doing so well keeping all the other illegal items out of the country banning the sale of these will make no difference as they will still be bought online instead of in a store here. Are these even available in a bricks and mortar store here?

If you ban them, you can then enforce against a car which has them fitted. As matters stand, you can only enforce a car which you detect actually using them to conceal the number plate while driving on a public road.

pleas advice

Every numberplate ending in 007 ...

feargale

salmocab wrote: »

Just for some clarification OP do you want to be able to speed and drink drive or do you think you should only do one at a time?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If you can manage both more power to you, I'd be happy with Ross spontaneously combusting though.

Do you think you are mature enough to be driving?

Manic Moran

We have them in the US, but generally speaking, they are only ever mounted on the front of the car, where oftentimes there is no aesthetically suitable place to a license plate bracket. Generally speaking, it's not considered a major issue, as the rear plate is the one usually paid attention to by police behind you or toll readers etc. It's particularly useful for car shows, drive up to the show with the retractable frame, then show off the car with no bracket mucking up the front of the car by just pushing a button.

Peregrinus wrote: »

If you ban them, you can then enforce against a car which has them fitted. As matters stand, you can only enforce a car which you detect actually using them to conceal the number plate while driving on a public road.

Which brings it to the difference in philosophy, and part of the reason why we invented them in the first place, . I'm not sure what the law is exactly in Ireland, but in the US, it's generally only illegal (in the appropriate states) to operate a vehicle on the public highway when not displaying plates front and rear. There is nothing illegal about showing off your car at the local car meet or in the parking lot without the front bracket if you are not actually driving the car at the time. In other words, banning the device not only would allow enforcement against those who use them unlawfully, but they also ban what would otherwise be lawful and uncontroversial uses of the device. (Plus they make life more difficult for license plate thieves). Wheras if the police see you driving with the plate retracted, they can pull you over anyway, they don't need any law against the retraction device.

Peregrinus

Manic Moran wrote: »

...Which brings it to the difference in philosophy, and part of the reason why we invented them in the first place, . I'm not sure what the law is exactly in Ireland, but in the US, it's generally only illegal (in the appropriate states) to operate a vehicle on the public highway when not displaying plates front and rear. There is nothing illegal about showing off your car at the local car meet or in the parking lot without the front bracket if you are not actually driving the car at the time. In other words, banning the device not only would allow enforcement against those who use them unlawfully, but they also ban what would otherwise be lawful and uncontroversial uses of the device. (Plus they make life more difficult for license plate thieves). Wheras if the police see you driving with the plate retracted, they can pull you over anyway, they don't need any law against the retraction device.

The law here is that if your car is in a "public place", it needs to be displaying plates. "Public place" would include privately-owned land to which the public, or a section of the public, has access - so, a supermarket car park, for example. So if you're displaying your car at a car show in a place to which the public are admitted (even if they have to pay), that's a public place, and you should be showing your plates. (Though I suspect this might not be rigorously enforced in the car show context.)

As for pulling over drivers who drive with plates retracted, this requires the police to see you in person. If a car is caught on a traffic camera driving with plates retracted, or if a witness reports a car driving with plates retracted, there's no opportunity to pull the car over and its going to be very difficult to identify the driver and take subsequent enforcement action.

I take the point about the convenience of the retractabler plate for people who (a) show off their car at car shows, and (b) wish to show it off without a front plate visible. But, frankly, this is relevant to a vanishingly small proportion of cars that are driven on the road, (b) the desire to display the car without a front plate is a fairly trivial one and (c) you can satisfy that desire without an automated plate retraction mechanism; you can just remove the plate when the occasion arises - not quite as convenient, perhaps, but just as effective. So, all-in-all, this isn't an issue that I think should determine public policy in relation to the legality of retractable plates.

I would, though, hesitate to ban them unless there was some evidence that they are being improperly used (on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" principle). If people are driving with plates retracted, we'll know this, because it will be evident on traffic cameras. If it's not happening, then we don't need to take action against it.

Manic Moran

Well, the issue of traffic cameras is another matter as well. They are outright banned in a number of states, on the basis that law enforcement should be done by law enforcement personnel, who witness the violation. (There are also secondary arguments with reference to revenue generation). However, accepted that this isn’t an argument in Ireland.

With respect to C, some cars just don’t have the option of removing the front plate frame. Example, though our SL has one of those screw-in ports for a front tow hook and so we can use a plate mount designed for that, other cars often the only way to mount a front plate is by drilling holes in the bumper. My S4 is a case in point. The bracket is screwed through the panel. Kind of kills the show effect.

Guy:Incognito

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, the issue of traffic cameras is another matter as well. They are outright banned in a number of states, on the basis that law enforcement should be done by law enforcement personnel, who witness the violation. (There are also secondary arguments with reference to revenue generation). However, accepted that this isn’t an argument in Ireland.

.

Imo as much of the stuff that can be done remotely , or by civilians, should be . Speed cameras, anpr, bus lane cameras, paperwork etc. And let the police get on with policing the stuff that requires a face to face interaction.

seamus

Manic Moran wrote: »

With respect to C, some cars just don’t have the option of removing the front plate frame. Example, though our SL has one of those screw-in ports for a front tow hook and so we can use a plate mount designed for that, other cars often the only way to mount a front plate is by drilling holes in the bumper. My S4 is a case in point. The bracket is screwed through the panel. Kind of kills the show effect.

Seems pretty weak tbh.

They don't have the option of removing the plate, but retro-fitting an automated mechanism is no problem?

Yeah, doesn't sound reasonable. If you can retrofit a mechanism without ruining the "show effect", then you can retrofit a clip-on that allows you to remove or attach a licence plate in half a second.

If a vehicle cannot be modified to make it road legal, it shouldn't be on the road. Pretty simple.

Manic Moran

seamus wrote: »

Seems pretty weak tbh.

They don't have the option of removing the plate, but retro-fitting an automated mechanism is no problem?

Maybe you are not familiar with them. They are rather solidly affixed to the underside of the vehicle, where permanent modifications are not visible.

Yeah, doesn't sound reasonable. If you can retrofit a mechanism without ruining the "show effect", then you can retrofit a clip-on that allows you to remove or attach a licence plate in half a second.

No way I am trusting a “clip on” to hold my plate on a car. The thing gets screwed on, losing one to a pothole or a plate thief seems like an easy miss.

If a vehicle cannot be modified to make it road legal, it shouldn't be on the road. Pretty simple.

But they can be modified to make them road legal, by use of the retractable underframe mounting system. Indeed, the whole point of the thread is debating a proposal to make a currently legal system unlawful.

Isambard

i suspect if a Gard stood up in Court and said " I saw Mr Murphy driving his car with the numberplates reversed and subsequently on examining the car found a mechanism fitted to do this" that would be sufficient to gain a conviction.

JBokeh

fairly sure the tone of the OP here went straight over a lot of heads

highdef

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ross at it again, not happy that we've all given up the drink he wants us to get caught speeding now as well. Won't be happy until we're pushing our cars up the M50.
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Why would you have an issue with someone being caught speeding when it's widely known that's it's prohibited?

And what's with your talk about people giving up the drink? Nothing has happened that has forced me to do so.

As for pushing your car along the M50, I can't see that idea progressing as pedestrians are not permitted on motorways in this country.

GMSA

Get a production company to do a programme on your daily life. When the camera crew go out filming you driving your car they'll pixelate/ obscure your reg plates.
Problem solved and all done for legal reasons

amcalester

amcalester wrote: »

**** them, if they use the road they can pay the toll.

We shouldn’t be paying tolls for roads we already pay for in our large list of taxes and we especially shouldn’t be paying them indefinitely. It’s absolute madness how tolls are not being challenged.

amcalester

Alistair Refined Stubble wrote: »

We shouldn’t be paying tolls for roads we already pay for in our large list of taxes and we especially shouldn’t be paying them indefinitely. It’s absolute madness how tolls are not being challenged.

I thought the tolls are initially put on roads built with (partly) private finance?

I'd agree with you that we shouldn't be paying them indefinitely, the East Link for example is back in Public ownership yet the toll remains (albeit reduced), but equally as far as taxes go the pay by use system of tolls is fairer. So, yeah, **** them. Let them use the non-tolled roads if they don't want to pay.

Also, I'm sure the reason tolls are not being challenged is that there is nothing to challenge.

Guy:Incognito

I'm sure the people of Irish town, ringsend and sandy mount would love the toll to be abolished so they could get some extra cars coming through the area

Isambard

Alistair Refined Stubble wrote: »

We shouldn’t be paying tolls for roads we already pay for in our large list of taxes and we especially shouldn’t be paying them indefinitely. It’s absolute madness how tolls are not being challenged.

well I think it's absolute madness (for instance) to be paying for on street parking, I think that's a higher priority for abolishment and I'm sure a dozen people could post a dozen things they'd like to see abolished. What can you do?

Manic Moran

Often times on-street parking isn't so much a revenue grab as it is a disincentive to reduce the amount of folks trying to park in an area which has a maximum capacity, with revenue being a positive side-benefit.

Isambard

Manic Moran wrote: »

Often times on-street parking isn't so much a revenue grab as it is a disincentive to reduce the amount of folks trying to park in an area which has a maximum capacity, with revenue being a positive side-benefit.

well taking my local town as an example, there is blanket pay parking on the streets right out into the suburbs. What they are really acheiving is strangling the businesses in the town centre and sending people on a 20 minute drive to the out of town shopping centre which has free parking.

Absolute madness imo but that wasn't my point.