St. Michan's desecrated

Del.Monte

https://www.thejournal.ie/crypt-mummy-theft-4512256-Feb2019/

Beyond belief but it's Ireland 2019 so anything goes. Those scrotes responsible probably would claim a deprived childhood.

Spanish Eyes

That is just so awful. What is the security like there?

I visited this place with each of my young nephews and they and I thought it was just amazing (and creepy)!

A hidden gem. Sad that it happened, but it may up the game for St. Michans. In time I am sure they can commission a replacement head and keep going.

Sh1t happens. The scoundrels though.

Jellybaby1

Same people who kidnapped St. Laurence O'Toole's heart perhaps?!!!!! It may turn up again some time in the future. More likely to be druggies or weirdos who frequent the graveyard. I'd question the security arrangements on these historic churches, but really all churches need their security checked. The least I'd expect is an alarm system anyway.

dubhthach

Personally I think it's time that the remains were buried in a more secure location. People seem to forget that these are remains of actual human beings and not exhibitions to be gawk at by tourists.

tabbey

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

In time I am sure they can commission a replacement head and keep going.

Eh, How?

Achasanai

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

A hidden gem. Sad that it happened, but it may up the game for St. Michans. In time I am sure they can commission a replacement head and keep going.

Upping the game would require resources, and I would be surprised if St Michan's, like any of the inner-city Church of Ireland parishes has much by the way of resources.

Jellybaby1

dubhthach wrote: »

Personally I think it's time that the remains were buried in a more secure location. People seem to forget that these are remains of actual human beings and not exhibitions to be gawk at by tourists.

I agree. And for that reason I have never been interested in visiting the vaults. I think it is a gruesome sight for tourists, and particularly for children to see. I felt the same when my parents brought us as children to the museum and there was a mummy in a glass case. It terrified me!

skooterblue2

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sh1t happens.

Sh1t does not happen. This was willful destruction and desecration. Sticking the deviants head on a pike after every parishioner has had a chance to flog them with a cat of nine tails.

maninasia

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I agree. And for that reason I have never been interested in visiting the vaults. I think it is a gruesome sight for tourists, and particularly for children to see. I felt the same when my parents brought us as children to the museum and there was a mummy in a glass case. It terrified me!

It was the single coolest historical place in Dublin for me.

Do not close it.

Vetch

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I agree. And for that reason I have never been interested in visiting the vaults. I think it is a gruesome sight for tourists, and particularly for children to see. I felt the same when my parents brought us as children to the museum and there was a mummy in a glass case. It terrified me!

I'm generalising but a lot of children like the spooky, ghoulish, scary etc.

Peregrinus

Vetch wrote: »

I'm generalising but a lot of children like the spooky, ghoulish, scary etc.

Yup. I was one of them.

Jellybaby1

I'd agree, but mainly boys love that creepy stuff. Don't disappoint me and tell me ye are girls now!

Jellybaby1

maninasia wrote: »

It was the single coolest historical place in Dublin for me.

Do not close it.

If you mean the church, it won't close as it is still in use as a church. The vaults bring in some revenue from tours so I doubt they will be closed either. These lovely historic churches still retain small but loyal congregations. It was a regretful decision when the CoI closed St. Mary's in Mary Street and St. Paul's in N. King Street. But that was then, and this is now. Property is viewed differently now.

steddyeddy

I think it's disgusting. As a poster above said these are actual remains and not just an exhibit. I hope whoever did it are caught. It would take a certain disconnect from society to do such a thing.

Jellybaby1

Well, I stand corrected:

"The Vicar of the Christ Church Cathedral Group of Parishes, of which St Michan’s is part, Archdeacon David Pierpoint said he is upset and disappointed that the church has been targeted again by vandals. The crypt of St Michan’s was vandalised in 1996. “The actions of these people are devastating and sacrilegious. We are upset at the amount of damage that has been caused. But also the crypt will have to close so tourists will not be able to visit. It is very frustrating,” he said adding: “I would appeal to anyone with information to contact the Gardaí.”"

Achasanai

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

If you mean the church, it won't close as it is still in use as a church. The vaults bring in some revenue from tours so I doubt they will be closed either. These lovely historic churches still retain small but loyal congregations. It was a regretful decision when the CoI closed St. Mary's in Mary Street and St. Paul's in N. King Street. But that was then, and this is now. Property is viewed differently now.

Surely the reasons the CoI churches were closed in the past will be the reasons they will close in the future? What's changed in how property is viewed nowadays? I would imagine it's all down to costs of upkeep and the size of the congregation. Did St Thomas' not close recently?

Jellybaby1

Achasanai wrote: »

Surely the reasons the CoI churches were closed in the past will be the reasons they will close in the future? What's changed in how property is viewed nowadays? I would imagine it's all down to costs of upkeep and the size of the congregation. Did St Thomas' not close recently?

What's changed? Years ago when a congregation couldn't keep up the financial burden of the parish the church was closed and probably sold to commercial interests. Today when a congregation can't afford to keep going they are moved to another parish but their church then can be used for something else, but not sold. St. Thomas's did close but has recently reopened with a different function I think.

.......

This is really a terrible thing that has happened.

Besides ruining a wonderful place to visit they have desecrated actual human remains. So disrespectful.

Im really saddened by it.

BalcombeSt4

dubhthach wrote: »

Personally I think it's time that the remains were buried in a more secure location. People seem to forget that these are remains of actual human beings and not exhibitions to be gawk at by tourists.

Don't thousands of tourists gawk at Lenin & Mao's remains every minute on Youtube and every year in person?

Jellybaby1

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Don't thousands of tourists gawk at Lenin & Mao's remains every minute on Youtube and every year in person?

Yes, and it's also quite gruesome. They should be laid to rest imo.

whisky_galore

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Yes, and it's also quite gruesome. They should be laid to rest imo.

There's a whole travelling exhibition of preserved sliced up human bodies. Egyptian mummies etc. People are inquisitive about such things and pay good money to see them. If it isn't your bag it's someone else's.

Squatter

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Don't thousands of tourists gawk at Lenin & Mao's remains every minute on Youtube and every year in person?

Not to mention Saint Oliver Plunkett's head in Drogheda.

L1011

Head and skull recovered, quicker than the heart was anyway. Hopefully this means they have the people to prosecute

.......

L1011 wrote: »

Head and skull recovered, quicker than the heart was anyway. Hopefully this means they have the people to prosecute

Also indicates that this was just mindless vandalism.

Jellybaby1

Mebbe they thought they weren't real! P'raps they read this thread and realised they had real live dead people!! :eek:

dSchwainass

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Yes, and it's also quite gruesome. They should be laid to rest imo.

You are imposing your own values here. Medieval people were very familiar with the idea of relics and it was a lot more normal than to be close to human remains than it is today.

Jellybaby1

dSchwainass wrote: »

You are imposing your own values here. Medieval people were very familiar with the idea of relics and it was a lot more normal than to be close to human remains than it is today.

Neither you or I are Medieval people. I don’t think or behave like a medieval person. Do you?

dSchwainass

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Neither you or I are Medieval people. I don’t think or behave like a medieval person. Do you?

No, but it isnt true that they that necessarily share modern sensibilities in this regard.

Jellybaby1

dSchwainass wrote: »

No, but it isnt true that they that necessarily share modern sensibilities in this regard.

Not sure what you mean.

.......

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean.

That the medieval people themselves would not mind their remains being used as relics.

Personally I wouldnt either.

Jellybaby1

....... wrote: »

That the medieval people themselves would not mind their remains being used as relics.

Personally I wouldnt either.

Oh I agree, medieval people wouldn't be as squeamish as me, they got up to some awful things that were 'acceptable' then, but not now. Well, ......., to each his/her own. Maybe you'll end up in a glass case in an exhibition some time in the future. (Don't know whether to add an emoticon here or not, nothing seems to fit!!)

.......

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Oh I agree, medieval people wouldn't be as squeamish as me, they got up to some awful things that were 'acceptable' then, but not now. Well, ......., to each his/her own. Maybe you'll end up in a glass case in an exhibition some time in the future. (Don't know whether to add an emoticon here or not, nothing seems to fit!!)

I quite possibly will - I have considered leaving my remains to be plastinated ala Gunther von Hagens Bodyworlds!

Jellybaby1

That would be your choice of course. If I had to chose, I'd prefer to donate the usable bits of my body to help someone else in need. The Crusader didn't have any choice, but I guess he probably would have preferred a Christian burial with all the honours a Crusader would have expected.

.......

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

That would be your choice of course. If I had to chose, I'd prefer to donate the usable bits of my body to help someone else in need. The Crusader didn't have any choice, but I guess he probably would have preferred a Christian burial with all the honours a Crusader would have expected.

Plastinating is being useful - the bodies become educational. I have an interesting surgical pin people might like to see.

He got a Christian burial didnt he though? He was entombed in the crypts of St Michans.

It was centuries later that the crypts were opened and it was found that the people buried in there had mummified.

Im sure his soul was long gone.

skooterblue2

....... wrote: »

That the medieval people themselves would not mind their remains being used as relics.

Personally I wouldnt either.

Remember you cannot have a Cathedral without a 1st class relic. That being a piece of their body. A second class relic is a piece of something they owned.

pedroeibar1

L1011 wrote: »

Head and skull recovered, quicker than the heart was anyway. Hopefully this means they have the people to prosecute

They've got a guy, he has pleaded guilty and is in custody/remanded for sentencing.

Del.Monte

A victim impact statement is to be prepared. Lol ....Have they found some of the crusaders relatives?

Jellybaby1

I'd just like to know why he did it. Senseless act.

mfceiling

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I'd just like to know why he did it. Senseless act.

Won't matter. The solicitor will give the usual "he's had a tough upbringing"..."no facilities in his area"..."trying to turn his life around"

Basically it will have been everybody else's fault and not his.

Spanish Eyes

Judge ordered urinalisys for the accused. Nuff said.

Edit, the defending solicitor did. Just to prove he was clean and sober, but he still pleaded guilty to robbing the head of the Crusader. Honestly.

skooterblue2

Del.Monte wrote: »

A victim impact statement is to be prepared. Lol ....Have they found some of the crusaders relatives?

What about the congregation? Their church was descretated. The last guy I heard who stole from a mosque lost a thumb,

pedroeibar1

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The last guy I heard who stole from a mosque lost a thumb,

What a very odd assertion. Source?

skooterblue2

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

What a very odd assertion. Source?

It is well known story in waterford where a guy tried to steal a candle stick from the Waterford prayer room and lost a thumb in the process.

What about the guy who threw a bacon sandwich at a mosque in the UK and was later killed in prison?

feargale

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The last guy I heard who stole from a mosque lost a thumb,

I heard of a man who stole another man's wife. Guess what he lost.