€700 million a year given to private landlords.

Magnatu

An accusation levelled against Fine Gael many times over the years was that the housing crisis was deliberately and cynically manufactured in order to allow them to justify the massive transfer of taxpayer money to the already wealthy. The investment funds, the pension funds, the landlords.

Figures obtained by Sinn Féin’s Eoin Ó Broin show that in total, €695,346,000 was given to private landlords in 2018.

“This is a massive transfer of public money to private landlords,” said Ó Broin.

Another intended consequence of this ideologicaly driven wealth transfer is spiraling rents. At the same time as these massive sums are being paid annually no affordable homes and tiny numbers of social homes are being provided.

Topgear on Dave

Eoin can level all the accusations he wants against FG but the housing market has been a long running 30+ year rollercoaster/carcrash/sh*tshow and we're not short of opposition politicians with simple solutions for fixing it.

It's going to be interesting when he finally gets into government to see how he fixes the rental crisis by cracking down hard on landlords.

sk8board

Oh please.
‘Transfer of money to the already wealthy’.

1. In 2012 the government decided that us private landlords would provide the solution to the social housing shortage, while they couldn’t afford to build, thus arrived the HAP scheme.

2. the money is only a portion of the rent, paid for a small portion of the 335,000 registered tenancies.

3. And finally, what % of the €700m is repaid in income tax?

Sunday socialism.

amcalester

Sinn Fein are talking out of both sides of their mouth, how many SF controlled County Councils have reduced the LPT each year?

That money could be used to house the homeless, but typical of SF to shout from the sidelines rather than take measures to fix an issue.

the_pen_turner

what about all the money that landlords pay out in insurance, tax, maintanance, legal fees, painting, electrical apliances, morgages, etc etc. look at all the employment spin off from it

its not like all the moey goes into their pocket and is never spent again. most landlords are average local people that spend their money locally

pwurple

Indeed. So, Working people should provide their goods and services for free, and never be paid at all at all...? Is that what they want?

Or, government provided slums.

Both cool options.

hmmm

HAP is supposed to be (or should be) temporary until the person in receipt gets a job where they can afford a mortgage.

Social housing is free housing for life, where you ring the council if a lightbuib goes.

How about the multi millions given to homeless charities every year? The vast majority of which goes on wages.

Magnatu

the_pen_turner wrote: »

its not like all the moey goes into their pocket and is never spent again. most landlords are average local people that spend their money locally

I assure you that if FG gave me €15,000 a year I would also spend it locally.

Topgear on Dave

Magnatu wrote: »

I assure you that if FG gave me €15,000 a year I would also spend it locally.

They'd have about half of it back in tax for a start! :pac:

amcalester

Magnatu wrote: »

I assure you that if FG gave me €15,000 a year I would also spend it locally.

What service do you provide?

Magnatu

Deleted User wrote: »

How about the multi millions given to homeless charities every year? The vast majority of which goes on wages.

Like landlords, homeless charities have a vested interest in ensuring that the "housing crisis" continues. Like landlords there employes are doing very well financially out of it. Same for the hotel owners.

pwurple

Magnatu wrote: »

Like landlords, homeless charities have a vested interest in ensuring that the "housing crisis" continues. Like landlords there employes are doing very well financially out of it. Same for the hotel owners.

You are assuming malice and even some level of power here that doesn’t exist.

How is somebody, who owns one, or even two or three properties for decades... leasing it out day in day out no matter how the market goes, supposed to be controlling the housing market exactly? Landlords don’t build property. They don’t own swathes of land. They don’t rezone, they don’t have anything to do with planning permission. They don’t control either demand, or supply... bar their one unit.

This is like saying corner shop owners control the growing of bananas because they sell them.

Magnatu

pwurple wrote: »

This is like saying corner shop owners control the growing of bananas because they sell them.

But if govt deliberately restricted the supply of bananas and then paid shopkeepers €5 per banana it would increase the price of bananas for everyone and make shopkeepers wealthy.

By the way most of this money is going to institutional landlords with large property portfolio or investment funds. Only a very small proportion of it goies to amateur landlords with a few properties.

Edgware

Magnatu wrote: »

An accusation levelled against Fine Gael many times over the years was that the housing crisis was deliberately and cynically manufactured in order to allow them to justify the massive transfer of taxpayer money to the already wealthy. The investment funds, the pension funds, the landlords.

Figures obtained by Sinn Féin’s Eoin Ó Broin show that in total, €695,346,000 was given to private landlords in 2018.

“This is a massive transfer of public money to private landlords,” said Ó Broin.

Another intended consequence of this ideologicaly driven wealth transfer is spiraling rents. At the same time as these massive sums are being paid annually no affordable homes and tiny numbers of social homes are being provided.

Maybe he could get Gerry "3 houses" to rent two of them out ar reasonable rent?

El Tarangu

Magnatu wrote: »

By the way most of this money is going to institutional landlords with large property portfolio or investment funds. Only a very small proportion of it goies to amateur landlords with a few properties.

Where are you getting this from? AFAIR, large institutional landlords own a tiny % of total rental stock.

Get Real

It's a ridiculous situation that we have alright. But I don't see your point.

Other solution short term is to not pay the 700million. Would you be complaining then that that's also a disgrace and leaves families on the streets?

It's all well and good complaining, but reallistically, there's no quick fix.

84% of landlords own two or fewer homes. (Their own one plus an extra one)

The idea that there's some big conspiracy by these giant landlords to maintain the current market doesn't add up when most landlords are average joes.

Only 16% percent make enough to cover their mortgage and make a profit.

Source: https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/research/

Scroll down to Future of Private rental sector. Big report there.

Magnatu

El Tarangu wrote: »

Where are you getting this from? AFAIR, large institutional landlords own a tiny % of total rental stock.

As one example company called Iris Reit recently announced profits of €19 million for last year from State transfers. Most of this came from direct payments from the taxpayer using the HAP scheme.
A solidarity councilor described the payments as
" Corporate welfare in an industrial scale"

Franz Von Peppercorn

This money could be used, along with rental payments to councils, to pay for loans taken out to build social housing.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Magnatu wrote: »

As one example company called Iris Reit recently announced profits of €19 million for last year from State transfers. Most of this came from direct payments from the taxpayer using the HAP scheme.
A solidarity councilor described the payments as
" Corporate welfare in an industrial scale"

Still a tiny percentage though.

Magnatu

Get Real wrote: »

Other solution short term is to not pay the 700million. Would you be complaining then that that's also a disgrace and leaves families on the streets?
.

Would it though. Suppose you stopped the €700 million in annual transfers in the morning what would happen. Rents would collapse. Give private landlords €300million a year in direct means tested dole payments to compensate them. Give €200 million a year extra to those on social welfare. And use €200 million to build social housing.

eagle eye

Love the amount of people that go attacking the Sinn Fein guy here for giving us figures.
Bit it of an agenda maybe?
I don't support any party, voted independent in the last election. I'm certainly not a fan of Sinn Fein, I'd vote for almost all other parties ahead of them.
Still though, the subject deserves discussion. Attacking the man giving the information in moving away from the issue.
I think it's disgraceful. We have to figure out a solution. There should be a cap on rent I think. We have to build houses now, not tomorrow or next month because that's just passing the buck.
In all fairness this is a huge issue, second only to the health service imo.
I think governments should be voted out if they are not sorting it out.

Graham

Magnatu, you would have a much more compelling point if most landlords actually wanted to accept state subsidised rent payments.

The reality is so many landlords were actively avoiding it, legislation was introduced to force landlords to take it!

Magnatu

Graham wrote: »

egislation was introduced to force landlords to take it!

Ah. So ye don't really want the €700 million..

Graham

Magnatu wrote: »

Ah. So ye don't really want the €700 million..

Nobody is offering me €700million.

I tell you what would happen if Government announced the end of compulsory HAP etc. A collective TFFT from most private landlords.

Naturally, Government would then have to work out how to house tens of thousands of people in a hurry and general taxation would have to increase to pay for new housing without completely shafting state borrowing.

Inconvenient details for those writing theoretical political cheques safe in the knowledge they are never likely to find themselves in a position where they'll have to explain why they can't honour them.

Topgear on Dave

Magnatu wrote: »

Ah. So ye don't really want the €700 million..

They don't. There are plenty of good tenants out there without needing hap for most landlords.

Legislation was brought in to prevent LLs refusing it.

Viscount Aggro

What about professional landlords? I'm talking about REITs. Buying up blocks of apartments, so ordinary folks can't live in their own local, without renting. When I see this, I picture... Herd of cows, waiting to be milked.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

What about professional landlords? I'm talking about REITs. Buying up blocks of apartments, so ordinary folks can't live in their own local, without renting. When I see this, I picture... Herd of cows, waiting to be milked.

There’s a fair amount of populism about REIT. They are no more stopping people buying than private landlords.

Samuel T. Cogley

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There’s a fair amount of populism about REIT. They are no more stopping people buying than private landlords.

I disagree there. There are very few LL's able to buy entire blocks. At least where there is a general release, even if it is off the plans, Joe public are in with a chance.

thereality

Magnatu wrote: »

But if govt deliberately restricted the supply of bananas and then paid shopkeepers €5 per banana it would increase the price of bananas for everyone and make shopkeepers wealthy.

The Government basically handed properties to low-income tenants for a song. They did not replace this housing. There was a recession, which meant Government could not build social housing if it wanted.

Social housing in this country is a disaster due to decades of mismanagement. The councils have no desire in fixing it either.

Magnatu wrote: »

By the way most of this money is going to institutional landlords with large property portfolio or investment funds. Only a very small proportion of it goies to amateur landlords with a few properties.

Not the case at all. IRES, Kennedy Wilson, Hibernia REIT with their luxury housing is not aiming to house low income tenants. Until very recently, they had minimal HAP tenants. Also until Kennedy Wilson bought some apartments in Cork last year, there were no REIT investments in residential housing outside of Dublin. Most tenants on HAP etc are dealing with small time landlords.

nostro

thereality wrote: »

The Government basically handed properties to low-income tenants for a song. They did not replace this housing. There was a recession, which meant Government could not build social housing if it wanted.

Social housing in this country is a disaster due to decades of mismanagement. The councils have no desire in fixing it either.

.

Social housing worked for generations. An ideological decision was made by FG to effectively end it. Now we have the intended consequences of that policy.
A "housing crisis" homelessness, vast sums of money being transferred to private landlords and hotels, skyrocketing rents for low paid workers.
This was all very foreseeable and is intended.
And although there are losers there are a lot of people that have become very wealthy from this policy.
The charity industries, the institution investors, REITS who buy up blocks of apartments on the promise of the HAP millions.