VAT on UK import

iognaid

My question is very precise but a great deal depends on it.
Ive brought in a car from uk wih date if 1st,registration August 21st. It has 7000 miles on clock, 12000 km.
I had vrt inspection yesterday, 22nd February, just 6 months old
will vat be applicable.
The girl didnt mention this but said it has to be sent to higher authority, explaining that this is new practice on hagh value cars.
Will I have a problem?
All comments and past experiences welcome
Thanks

bazz26

If the car is at least 6 months old (they go off the date of original registration) and/or has at least 6000 km on the clock then VAT shouldn't be chargeable.

NCT folks sending a query off to Revenue for a VRT figure is common enough if the car they are inspecting doesn't have a STAT code on the VRT system. It doesn't automatically mean that VAT is being charged.

Stovie

Not sure about this one given the close date. My wife got caught for VAT because the car had only 800 miles but was more than 6 months old. When did you buy this car. I am not sure if it the date of purchase or date of inspection that determines whether VAT is due.

moby2101

It is date of inspection 100%

I brought my car in at 4500km and just over 6 months old. I clocked up over 1500 km in the weeks leading up to my VRT appointment to have the necessary 6000 to be VAT exempt

Stovie

It is the date of inspection for miles no question but this is not the issue here since the car has over 6000 km done. The issue here is age and I believe it may be the date of purchase and not the date of inspection that is relevant for age. One cannot get an appointment with VRT straight
away, it normally takes a week. This means that the car was purchased before it was 6 months old and the invoice and VRT inspection application date will reflect this.

bazz26

When it comes to VAT liability, the 6 month age is calculated from the date of original registration, not the date on the invoice or the date you brought it into the country.

newmember2

bazz26 wrote: »

If the car is at least 6 months old (they go off the date of original registration) and/or has at least 6000 km on the clock then VAT shouldn't be chargeable...

if your car has less than 6000 km or is less than six months old then you're VAT liable - it only has to be one of them to be liable for VAT.

For the OP - you had the inspection yesterday, but what was the date of importation?

drunkmonkey

You can't buy a car in the UK vat free and import it without paying Vat here.

Phileas Frog

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You can't buy a car in the UK vat free and import it without paying Vat here.

There was a thread here recently where the opposite was proven

grogi

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You can't buy a car in the UK vat free and import it without paying Vat here.

You shouldn't be able to. But sometimes the Irish system is too loose and you'd get through.

mulbot

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You can't buy a car in the UK vat free and import it without paying Vat here.

Yes you can. As mentioned above,if it's older than 6 months or has more than 6000k,VAT isn't charged.

mickdw

mulbot wrote: »

Yes you can. As mentioned above,if it's older than 6 months or has more than 6000k,VAT isn't charged.

If you take out of UK vat free, it is expected you pay vat at destination Country. The only way you then avoid paying vat here is to clock up mileage./ take it over 6 months and most likely fraudulently claim in it was bought in NI the day before presenting it here as otherwise the UK purchase invoice and travel dates will result in vat being owed.
It's not worth trying as it could very well come back to bite you.

mulbot

mickdw wrote: »

If you take out of UK vat free, it is expected you pay vat at destination Country. The only way you then avoid paying vat here is to clock up mileage./ take it over 6 months and most likely fraudulently claim in it was bought in NI the day before presenting it here as otherwise the UK purchase invoice and travel dates will result in vat being owed.
It's not worth trying as it could very well come back to bite you.

That's exactly what I wrote-once it's over 6 months old/has more than 6000K you don't pay VAT here

Stovie

bazz26 wrote: »

When it comes to VAT liability, the 6 month age is calculated from the date of original registration, not the date on the invoice or the date you brought it into the country.

If the six month period begins from the date of original registration, then where does it end.?

Stovie

Here is what the Revenue manual says:

1.5.3 Purchase Invoices
It should be noted that in calculating the length of time since first registration in another MS,
the critical date is the date on which the vehicle was supplied in the other MS, i.e. the date
of the purchase invoice.
Delaying registration in the State until six months or more after entry into service does not
remove the liability to VAT. It is the date of supply and not the date of declaration that
determines liability to VAT and, where possible, customers should be advised accordingly.

drunkmonkey

That's if your in the motor trade and the car is to be held in stock for resale. It is not referring to ordinary people without vat numbers going to the UK and exporting a car to Ireland vat free.

Phileas Frog

mulbot wrote: »

That's exactly what I wrote-once it's over 6 months old/has more than 6000K you don't pay VAT here

The issue is the non payment of VAT in the UK

mulbot

Any private citizen can import a car from UK,once that car is older than 6 months from first registration date,and has more than 6000 you are exempt from VAT in Ireland .

drunkmonkey

mulbot wrote: »

Any private citizen can import a car from UK,once that car is older than 6 months from first registration date,and has more than 6000 you are exempt from VAT in Ireland .

Yes like every other good you import but your are not exempt if the vat has not been paid or claimed back in the UK. It's cheaper pay the UK vat than Irish vat.
If your bring in a car without paying Vat and don't pay it here the revenue will come down on you like a ton of bricks.
The Vat is due somewhere whether that be the UK or Ireland. There are no vat free cars.

Phileas Frog

mulbot wrote: »

Any private citizen can import a car from UK,once that car is older than 6 months from first registration date,and has more than 6000 you are exempt from VAT in Ireland .

You are misunderstanding the issue here.

mulbot

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes like every other good you import but your are not exempt if the vat has not been paid or claimed back in the UK. It's cheaper pay the UK vat than Irish vat.
If your bring in a car without paying Vat and don't pay it here the revenue will come down on you like a ton of bricks.
The Vat is due somewhere whether that be the UK or Ireland. There are no vat free cars.

I was referring to paying VAT only in Ireland.All UK VAT should be accounted for before leaving the UK.

drunkmonkey

mulbot wrote: »

I was referring to paying VAT only in Ireland.

Why would you do that you'd pay 3% extra for your car.

drunkmonkey

mulbot wrote: »

I was referring to paying VAT only in Ireland.All UK VAT should be accounted for before leaving the UK.

Yes you don't pay any vat on goods from Europe as a consumer the vat has already been paid, that applies to everything from sliced cheers to cars.
Exporting to Ireland without paying Vat in the origin country is daft as we have one or the highest vat rates
Now if your a consumer you can never buy without vat. You need a vat number.

mulbot

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes you don't pay any vat on goods from Europe as a consumer the vat has already been paid, that applies to everything from sliced cheers to cars.
Exporting to Ireland without paying Vat in the origin country is daft as we have one or the highest vat rates
Now if your a consumer you can never buy without vat. You need a vat number.

Exactly-if the UK VAT has been paid,you can import to Ireland,without paying VAT here once the car meets the 6 month\6000 km criteria.

drunkmonkey

mulbot wrote: »

Exactly-if the UK VAT has been paid,you can import to Ireland,without paying VAT here once the car meets the 6 month\6000 km criteria.

Exactly. The Vat has already been paid. No vat liability in Ireland.

mickdw

Mulbot, you are confusing the thread. It's a given that all being legit, car purchased more than 6 months old etc does not require vat paying here.
The op however queried the situation where they presented a car for inspection 1 day after the 6 month cut off. This would suggest it was supplied at less than 6 months and for that reason it could have left UK with vat paid or vat free in certain circumstances.
The thread is in relation that transaction and whether vat is due here.
It's not just as simple as saying no vat due in this case.

Stovie

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's if your in the motor trade and the car is to be held in stock for resale. It is not referring to ordinary people without vat numbers going to the UK and exporting a car to Ireland vat free.

It makes no distinction if you are registered or not. Also note that a lot of cars sold in UK do not have VAT charged as they are sold under the Margin Scheme.

In order to avoid VAT on import you need to meet both requirements of greater than 6 months old and greater than 6000 km.

Stovie

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Exactly. The Vat has already been paid. No vat liability in Ireland.

Deal with the OP's case. She meets the requirement on mileage but does she meet the requirement on vehicle age?. She needs to meet both to avod paying VAT.

drunkmonkey

Stovie wrote: »

Deal with the OP's case. She meets the requirement on mileage but does she meet the requirement on vehicle age?. She needs to meet both to avod paying VAT.

There is no avoiding vat on any used car. If you avoid the UK vat it's due in Ireland. You have to be in the motor trade to defer the vat but it's still due when you sell it.
I'll say it again no consumer can buy a car vat free in another country and not pay vat here also. It doesn't matter when the car was registered or milage the vat is due somewhere.
If you need clarification contact the revenue if you have any doubts about what I'm saying.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes like every other good you import but your are not exempt if the vat has not been paid or claimed back in the UK. It's cheaper pay the UK vat than Irish vat.
If your bring in a car without paying Vat and don't pay it here the revenue will come down on you like a ton of bricks.
The Vat is due somewhere whether that be the UK or Ireland. There are no vat free cars.

This was discussed in the previous thread, revenue will never come looking in the scenario where you buy vat free in the UK and then rack up the miles before registering here. So they can’t really come down on you like a tonne of bricks.

At least one if not two people on that thread had successfully avoided paying vat in this way, look up the other thread if you don’t believe it here.

mulbot

mickdw wrote: »

Mulbot, you are confusing the thread. It's a given that all being legit, car purchased more than 6 months old etc does not require vat paying here.
The op however queried the situation where they presented a car for inspection 1 day after the 6 month cut off. This would suggest it was supplied at less than 6 months and for that reason it could have left UK with vat paid or vat free in certain circumstances.
The thread is in relation that transaction and whether vat is due here.
It's not just as simple as saying no vat due in this case.

OK, I misread the original post, I see that they might have brought it in before the 6 month mark.

drunkmonkey

Roselyn Fancy Sedation wrote: »

This was discussed in the previous thread, revenue will never come looking in the scenario where you buy vat free in the UK and then rack up the miles before registering here. So they can’t really come down on you like a tonne of bricks.

At least one if not two people on that thread had successfully avoided paying vat in this way, look up the other thread if you don’t believe it here.

I was in it, I called the revenue more or less threatened to cut my nuts off if I didn't pay the vat. Couple of guys got lucky. You want to play games with the revenue that's your choice but it's not legal.

grogi

Roselyn Fancy Sedation wrote: »

This was discussed in the previous thread, revenue will never come looking in the scenario where you buy vat free in the UK and then rack up the miles before registering here. So they can’t really come down on you like a tonne of bricks.

At least one if not two people on that thread had successfully avoided paying vat in this way, look up the other thread if you don’t believe it here.

They sometimes are, especially when some flags are raised. Never underestimate the taxman...

BnB

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You can't buy a car in the UK vat free and import it without paying Vat here.

100%

It is very black & white with Revenue.

As everyone has said, if it is over the 6 months & 6kms, then you don't pay VAT here - That's fine. But you will obviously have to pay it when you buy it in the UK.

If it is under the 6 months or 6kms, then you will pay VAT here - No matter what you have done in the UK. However, in that case, in order to avoid double paying the VAT, you can fill out a form with the dealer you are buying the car from in the UK to say that you are exporting the Vehicle (within the EU) and therefore you do not need to pay VAT in the UK when you are buying it. Alternatively, if you do pay the VAT in the UK and then end up paying the VAT again in Ireland, you can reclaim your VAT from the UK but that is meant to be a real pain in the butt of a process.

The above was all explained to me by a very helpful girl in the Revenue when I rang them last year with a similar VAT query. The car I was buying was about 3 weeks short of the 6 months and about 400 km short of the 6k. In the end, for an easy life, I just waited 3 weeks and bought the car then. The drive home sorted out the extra kms.

You could of course chance your arm and try and manipulate that window of opportunity around the 6 month mark but you are playing a very very dodgy game and of course, straight up breaking the law.

To go back to the OP's query - I wouldn't worry about it being referred to the revenue. When I registered mine last year I got the same and got a case of the willies worrying that they were going to try and screw me. But yer man (in the NCT centre in Limerick) said not to worry about it at all and it is standard practice for anything under 1 year old and/or anything high value at the minute. Revenue are looking at them from a lot of different angles including money laundering etc. My valuation came back from revenue exactly the same as the standard valuation from the online VRT calculator.

drunkmonkey

Don't forget when you try to get one over on the revenue interest starts been added from the time you commited the fraud not the day your caught...it's added daily and compounded, they'll also load on penalties and charges.

iognaid

Many thanks for that reply. Yes I understand the 6 months.under 6 months vat charged. But if it is just 6 months, what then. Also some months are longer than others. Are the days counted? 183! Thanks again.

drunkmonkey

iognaid wrote: »

Many thanks for that reply. Yes I understand the 6 months.under 6 months vat charged. But if it is just 6 months, what then. Also some months are longer than others. Are the days counted? 183! Thanks again.

Under 6mts you claim back the UK vat 20% and pay the Irish Vat 23%


6mts and 1 day you just pay what ever price is on the car as the vat is included.

Casati

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Under 6mts you claim back the UK vat 20% and pay the Irish Vat 23%


6mts and 1 day you just pay what ever price is on the car as the vat is included.

How do you claim the vat back in the UK? Can the dealer just sell it to a private individual exporting to the ROI vat free? If you buy privately a 3 month old car with 2000km can you claim the vat back from UK revenue?

grogi

Casati wrote: »

How do you claim the vat back in the UK? Can the dealer just sell it to a private individual exporting to the ROI vat free?

They potentially could, if the vehicle was bought by them with full VAT - exp. unregistered car or a demo car. If it was registered by a private buyer, not that easy.

Nevertheless it is risky for them if it is discovered that the car is not registered outside of UK, as they will have to pay the VAT themselves.

If you buy privately a 3 month old car with 2000km can you claim the vat back from UK revenue?

Yes - you can. There are some forms you'd need to fill in. You'll get back the whole VAT paid initially for it. In principle you only need to pay VAT only once.

Stovie

Quote
If you buy privately a 3 month old car with 2000km can you claim the vat back from UK revenue?


If you buy privately the seller will not be registered for VAT and so will not be able to charge you VAT. And if you have not been charged VAT you cannot reclaim it. So the answer is no.

The same applies to cars sold under the margin scheme. Most cars in the UK & NI are sold under the margin scheme and so no VAT is charged and cannot be reclaimed from UK revenue

Casati

Stovie wrote: »

Quote
If you buy privately a 3 month old car with 2000km can you claim the vat back from UK revenue?


If you buy privately the seller will not be registered for VAT and so will not be able to charge you VAT. And if you have not been charged VAT you cannot reclaim it. So the answer is no.

The same applies to cars sold under the margin scheme. Most cars in the UK & NI are sold under the margin scheme and so no VAT is charged and cannot be reclaimed from UK revenue

So buying one privately would see you getting stung paying vat here on top of the original vat paid in the UK? (assuming <6 mnth and <6km)

Stovie

Casati wrote: »

So buying one privately would see you getting stung paying vat here on top of the original vat paid in the UK? (assuming <6 mnth and <6km)

Exactly. But not just buying privately. Also buy from a dealer who operated the margin scheme. Know all about it. Happened my wife in November 2018. She bought a 6 month old car with 800 miles from a dealer in NI. He sold it under the margin scheme and so charged no VAT. As she was not charged VAT the UK revenue could not give her a refund. The Irish revenue then charged her 5,000 VAT. So in effect VAT was paid in two countries on this car.

grogi

Stovie wrote: »

Quote
If you buy privately a 3 month old car with 2000km can you claim the vat back from UK revenue?


If you buy privately the seller will not be registered for VAT and so will not be able to charge you VAT. And if you have not been charged VAT you cannot reclaim it. So the answer is no.

Nonsense. If you export new vehicle (6months, 6000km), you are entitled for VAT refund. Of course it is massively easier not to go through such ordeal

Marcusm

grogi wrote: »

Nonsense. If you export new vehicle (6months, 6000km), you are entitled for VAT refund. Of course it is massively easier not to go through such ordeal

Not in all circumstances because the seller may not account for VAT or it may not be a VAT qualifying car. Where this occurs, although U.K. VAT has initially been paid, it is not available to be refunded to a foreign seller. It is simply incorrect to assume that it will always be refundable as the mechanics of the VAT system only permits regards to be had to the immediate transaction not prior ones.

grogi

Marcusm wrote: »

Not in all circumstances because the seller may not account for VAT or it may not be a VAT qualifying car. Where this occurs, although U.K. VAT has initially been paid, it is not available to be refunded to a foreign seller. It is simply incorrect to assume that it will always be refundable as the mechanics of the VAT system only permits regards to be had to the immediate transaction not prior ones.

In regular exchange of goods, you're right. But export of new vehicles does not follow those guidance.

Marcusm

grogi wrote: »

In regular exchange of goods, you're right. But export of new vehicles does not follow those guidance.

The New Means of transport rules are indeeed applicable but the area where there is a problem is where the supplier in the U.K. is not VAT registered (such as a private individual) or where it is a margin scheme car (generally bought by dealer from private individual), this will mean that Urish VAT is chargeable but there is not a guaranteed entitlement to any U.K. refund or credit. This latter part is subject to the domestic rule regarding such. It won’t happen often but when it does it’s a pain.

bf

Stovie wrote: »

Exactly. But not just buying privately. Also buy from a dealer who operated the margin scheme. Know all about it. Happened my wife in November 2018. She bought a 6 month old car with 800 miles from a dealer in NI. He sold it under the margin scheme and so charged no VAT. As she was not charged VAT the UK revenue could not give her a refund. The Irish revenue then charged her 5,000 VAT. So in effect VAT was paid in two countries on this car.

Interested as to how Revenue became aware of the VAT liability, are they informed directly by Applus as part of the VRT procedure?

terrydel

bazz26 wrote: »

If the car is at least 6 months old (they go off the date of original registration) and/or has at least 6000 km on the clock then VAT shouldn't be chargeable.

Wrong, both conditions must be true (over 6 mnoths old, over 6000km) for vat not to be chargeable.

slave1

Stovie wrote: »

Exactly. But not just buying privately. Also buy from a dealer who operated the margin scheme. Know all about it. Happened my wife in November 2018. She bought a 6 month old car with 800 miles from a dealer in NI. He sold it under the margin scheme and so charged no VAT. As she was not charged VAT the UK revenue could not give her a refund. The Irish revenue then charged her 5,000 VAT. So in effect VAT was paid in two countries on this car.

bf wrote: »

Interested as to how Revenue became aware of the VAT liability, are they informed directly by Applus as part of the VRT procedure?

At VRT check the clock was (I assume) under the 6,000kms so that would kick VAT in, perhaps it was a day or so under 6 months old either?

gavmancars

grogi wrote: »

They potentially could, if the vehicle was bought by them with full VAT - exp. unregistered car or a demo car. If it was registered by a private buyer, not that easy.

Nevertheless it is risky for them if it is discovered that the car is not registered outside of UK, as they will have to pay the VAT themselves.



Yes - you can. There are some forms you'd need to fill in. You'll get back the whole VAT paid initially for it. In principle you only need to pay VAT only once.

Hi - do you know how to claim the VAT back from the UK i.e. which forms do you use?
thanks

grogi

gavmancars wrote: »

Hi - do you know how to claim the VAT back from the UK i.e. which forms do you use?
thanks

There is VAT411 - but that's only to when you buy from a dealer....