Garda vetting is an awful f*ckup of a system

Ubbquittious

And creates a fierce amount of unnecessary busywork for both the person applying and the person doing the vetting

Wouldnt it be a way easier if everyone got it automatically when they leave school and only get it revoked if they do something wrong? Unless of course they are using it as an unofficial barrier to entry for some professions which I suspect does be the case.

The way it is now it will put a lot of people off of the likes of becoming a scout leader and what have you. People won't bother if the bureaucracy is too steep especially for something voluntary

Chancer3001

Theres the right / easy way

And the irish way.

Welcome to ireland

Where you get garda vetted for one job...say a school... but have to get seperately garda vetted to coach for a sports club...and another seperate one to do scouts for example.

Ridiculous

Jimbob1977

I can't understand the need for different vetting for different organisations.

If you're a criminal on one organisation's form.. you should be noted as a criminal on every form.

Maybe an annual certificate to cover all voluntary organisations is a better policy.

spurious

Or a substitute teacher...vetted for an ETB, then a secondary school, then a youth club, then a volunteer position...

Ubbquittious

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I can't understand the need for different vetting for different organisations.

If you're a criminal on one organisation's form.. you should be noted as a criminal on every form.

Maybe an annual certificate to cover all voluntary organisations is a better policy.

Why annual? creates even more hassle. One lifetime cert that stays valid as long as you don't get any convictions

Jimbob1977

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Why annual? creates even more hassle. One lifetime cert that stays valid as long as you don't get any convictions

The onus would then be placed on the Gardai to figure out that the offender is involved in voluntary organisations and have to contact every organisation.....

The offender might have joined additional organisations. How would the Gardai know?

TheValeyard

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Theres the right / easy way

And the irish way.

Welcome to ireland

Where you get garda vetted for one job...say a school... but have to get seperately garda vetted to coach for a sports club...and another seperate one to do scouts for example.

Ridiculous

There should be one centralised process. We should not be lax or take short cuts with child safety and anyone who works with children, but there should be an easier more efficient way that deals with all adult interactions with minors in a comprehensive and thorough manner.

Ubbquittious

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The onus would then be placed on the Gardai to figure out that the offender is involved in voluntary organisations and have to contact every organisation.....

The offender might have joined additional organisations. How would the Gardai know?

They wouldnt have to do a tap. Once convicted thered be a red flag beside his name when the organisation checks his vetting

RayCun

The garda vetting process is actually very easy, most of it is online.

It is a separate vetting process for each organisation because that allows different organisations to be more or less strict. They are all getting their information from the same place anyway.

Making it harder for some people to be scout leaders? That's the general idea, yeah.

kneemos

What's involved? Presumably it just says you don't have a criminal record.

Should be easy to get over the counter if they a proper data system.

Jimbob1977

Ubbquittious wrote: »

They wouldnt have to do a tap. Once convicted thered be a red flag beside his name when the organisation checks his vetting

But you said it would be a lifetime certificate.

The organisation would not need to check if he had his lifetime certificate at hand.

Ubbquittious

RayCun wrote: »

The garda vetting process is actually very easy, most of it is online.

It is a separate vetting process for each organisation because that allows different organisations to be more or less strict. They are all getting their information from the same place anyway.

Making it harder for some people to be scout leaders? That's the general idea, yeah.

A normal person who never did anything wrong shouldn't have to do anything and certainly shouldnt be put at a disadvantage for not having the vetting

Ubbquittious

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

But you said it would be a lifetime certificate.

The organisation would not need to check if he had his lifetime certificate at hand.

Put in the number on some web based thing and see is it still good

Gatling

It's totally required .

It's usually only takes only a week to days to be cleared .

I'm vetted for 2 jobs and a volunteer position

arctictree

Was vetted for the GAA and then had to go through the process again to coach a school hurling team. Feckin ridiculous.

Samuel T. Cogley

It's not just a criminal record check like some people think. They look into any intelligence on you also, that takes time.

Gatling

arctictree wrote: »

Was vetted for the GAA and then had to go through the process again to coach a school hurling team. Feckin ridiculous.

It sounds ridiculous till you hear about the recent Case of a convicted child abuser who tried to keep working as a school bus driver.

Gaps in up to date information can occur when someone is convicted or concerns about childrens safety are raised

Ubbquittious

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It's not just a criminal record check like some people think. They look into any intelligence on you also, that takes time.

What sort of intelligence? Surely they can revoke your cert at the time that intelligence is generated

RayCun

Ubbquittious wrote: »

A normal person who never did anything wrong shouldn't have to do anything and certainly shouldnt be put at a disadvantage for not having the vetting

A normal person who wants to work with vulnerable people should have no problem with the requirement.

Ubbquittious

RayCun wrote: »

A normal person who wants to work with vulnerable people should have no problem with the requirement.

Depends how badly.
Hoop jumping takes time and effort. If it's too much people wont bother

Samuel T. Cogley

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What sort of intelligence? Surely they can revoke your cert at the time that intelligence is generated

That your IP address isn't 'popping up' for one. They check to make sure they don't have intelligence, rather than waiting for new intelligence. There isn't some central database that can just be accessed, thank God, on every person in Ireland.

The standard clearance doesn't even take that long. Mine was 15 weeks for the full monty.

RayCun

kneemos wrote: »

What's involved? Presumably it just says you don't have a criminal record.

Should be easy to get over the counter if they a proper data system.

You present proof of ID to someone in the organisation.

They send a request for vetting.

You are sent log in details to a website.

You enter details of where you have lived.

The Gardai check your records, and send the results to someone in the organisation.

That person decides to approve you or not.

Start to finish, 6-8 weeks

n!ghtmancometh

Brother is a serving Garda, and was going to volunteer with a boxing club in the area he works
that helps to keep young lads out of trouble. He had to be Garda vetted, and it would apparently take 3 months minimum. He didn't bother in the end!

Samuel T. Cogley

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Brother is a serving Garda, and was going to volunteer with a boxing club in the area he works
that helps to keep young lads out of trouble. He had to be Garda vetted, and it would apparently take 3 months minimum. He didn't bother in the end!

Couldn't have been that committed to helping out then.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Gatling wrote: »

It's totally required .

It's usually only takes only a week to days to be cleared .

I'm vetted for 2 jobs and a volunteer position

I applied for vetting in 2016, took 9 months to come back.

I applied for vetting just before posting here, god knows how long it will take.

Samuel T. Cogley

Garrett Bald Greens wrote: »

I applied for vetting in 2016, took 9 months to come back.

I applied for vetting just before posting here, god knows how long it will take.

I'd say a while, 9 month probably means out of State involvement and AGS are taking on huge numbers of civilian staff at the moment so there is a backlog of applications.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I'd say a while, 9 month probably means out of State involvement and AGS are taking on huge numbers of civilian staff at the moment so there is a backlog of applications.

I never left the country in my life.

Apparently it was to do with someone with an identical name to my own, who isn't a million miles apart from me in age.

AGS came to my door to ascertain i wasn't the same person using slightly altered details. They were satisfied i was who i was and sent the file back to the vetting bureau, took 5 months to conclude after that visit.

Gatling

Garrett Bald Greens wrote: »

I applied for vetting in 2016, took 9 months to come back.

I applied for vetting just before posting here, god knows how long it will take.

Recently was vetted online in September came back cleared in 7 days ,
September is mental for vetting due to new entrants in education posts and preschools

freedominacup

I'm vetted for two sports organisations. I had to do a child protection course for one of them. 2 night course. The question of why people needed to be vetted for different organisations came up during the course. The answer was elegantly simple. Multiple applications for vetting are one of the first flags that there might be a problem with an individual. One or two, no problem. Multiple, big question mark. Why is this person making so many applications? Is there a valid reason or are they just trying to get into situations where they have access to kids? No one questioned it any further.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Gatling wrote: »

Recently was vetted online in September came back cleared in 7 days ,
September is mental for vetting due to new entrants in education posts and preschools

Submitted mine in November of that year, it probably got sent to the back due to those positions.

Ubbquittious

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That your IP address isn't 'popping up' for one. They check to make sure they don't have intelligence, rather than waiting for new intelligence. There isn't some central database that can just be accessed, thank God, on every person in Ireland.

The standard clearance doesn't even take that long. Mine was 15 weeks for the full monty.

Where would that pop up and what would it be in relation to?

15 weeks I wouldnt bother, I could be living in a different country in that length of time for all I know.

Samuel T. Cogley

freedominacup wrote: »

I'm vetted for two sports organisations. I had to do a child protection course for one of them. 2 night course. The question of why people needed to be vetted for different organisations came up during the course. The answer was elegantly simple. Multiple applications for vetting are one of the first flags that there might be a problem with an individual. One or two, no problem. Multiple, big question mark. Why is this person making so many applications? Is there a valid reason or are they just trying to get into situations where they have access to kids? No one questioned it any further.

In fairness they could still have that information without the requirement for separate vettings each time. That said unless the vetting was done recently I'd want the person vetted again if it were my (imaginary) kids.

Samuel T. Cogley

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Where would that pop up and what would it be in relation to?

15 weeks I wouldnt bother, I could be living in a different country in that length of time for all I know.

Then you're not much use to the job/organisation you were looking to join then are you?

Boggles

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That your IP address isn't 'popping up' for one.

Sorry what?

How in the name of fook will they know "your IP address"?

They are dynamic unless you have applied specifically for a fixed one.

Samuel T. Cogley

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry what?

How in the name of fook will they know your IP address?

When it's been intercepted doing things it shouldn't have been doing.

They may be Dynamic but the ISP knows who had what when.

Boggles

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

When it's been intercepted doing things it shouldn't have been doing.

Intercepted by who?

Samuel T. Cogley

Boggles wrote: »

Intercepted by who?

Use your imagination but you may or may not be aware of a certain ongoing operation that has hit people's addresses 4 times in the last c. 12 months.

Boggles

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Use your imagination but you may or may not be aware of a certain ongoing operation that has hit people's addresses 4 times in the last c. 12 months.

No idea, do tell?

Samuel T. Cogley

Boggles wrote: »

No idea, do tell?

Google Operation Ketch.

Boggles

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Google Operation Ketch.

Oh right. That makes sense.

The way you framed was there was an national ip database on everyone that the guards can dip into and check your history.

They can't by the way, 100 stations in Ireland don't even have internet access.

Samuel T. Cogley

Boggles wrote: »

Oh right. That makes sense.

The way you framed was there was an national ip database on everyone that the guards can dip into and check your history.

They can't by the way, 100 stations in Ireland don't even have internet access.

Okay but I did specifically say earlier that there aren't central databases of that nature.

That said the ISPs are very quick to give the subscriber details of a given IP address at a given time.

Boggles

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That said the ISPs are very quick to give the subscriber details of a given IP address at a given time.

No warrant required?

Most of the heavy tech stuff wouldn't be done by the Guards in regards the operation you referenced.

Outside agencies mainly.

Samuel T. Cogley

Boggles wrote: »

No warrant required?

Most of the heavy tech stuff wouldn't be done by the Guards in regards the operation you referenced.

Outside agencies mainly.

I'm not sure they require a warrant but I can't say either way. If they are getting warrants it's a very quick process. The information they are getting I would imagine is coming from the likes of the US.

Trying to get back on topic though, this sort of intelligence has to be checked and as you say it's not as if there a big database that simply says someone is grand.

lawred2

Ubbquittious wrote: »

And creates a fierce amount of unnecessary busywork for both the person applying and the person doing the vetting

Wouldnt it be a way easier if everyone got it automatically when they leave school and only get it revoked if they do something wrong? Unless of course they are using it as an unofficial barrier to entry for some professions which I suspect does be the case.

The way it is now it will put a lot of people off of the likes of becoming a scout leader and what have you. People won't bother if the bureaucracy is too steep especially for something voluntary

Funny thing about Garda vetting that you effectively vet yourself. Sure you could leave half of your past out and just fill in those gaps.

All they can do is check that you don't set off any flags based on the information you provide.

Hilariously they don't even seek your ppsn.

Boggles

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I'm not sure they require a warrant but I can't say either way. If they are getting warrants it's a very quick process. The information they are getting I would imagine is coming from the likes of the US.

Trying to get back on topic though, this sort of intelligence has to be checked and as you say it's not as if there a big database that simply says someone is grand.

But the vetting process doesn't include contacting a service provider for an internet history check?

You do know that right?

They check their Windows 3.1 Pulse System and if there is nothing in the box that would indicate you fiddle with children you will be passed.

Samuel T. Cogley

Boggles wrote: »

But the vetting process doesn't include contacting a service provider for an internet history check?

You do know that right?

They check their Windows 3.1 Pulse System and if there is nothing in the box that would indicate you fiddle with children you will be passed.

Well aware, your imagination has certainly perked up hasn't it.

The intelligence checks are more in depth than a simple pulse check.

Boggles

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The intelligence checks are more in depth than a simple pulse check.

What else can they check so?

jmayo

lawred2 wrote: »

Funny thing about Garda vetting that you effectively vet yourself. Sure you could leave half of your past out and just fill in those gaps.

All they can do is check that you don't set off any flags based on the information you provide.

Hilariously they don't even seek your ppsn.

A big thing they would be looking at is time gaps in residences, much like someone looking at a CV for candidates.

Also how can they check if you were in some place in Africa, South America, etc?

Boggles wrote: »

What else can they check so?

Your penalty points.

lawred2

jmayo wrote: »

A big thing they would be looking at is time gaps in residences, much like someone looking at a CV for candidates.

I said fill in those gaps... You know an extra year or two at each address either side of the gap.

Shur the guards do not have the finer details about any of us really.

Surely legislation will soon be passed for the guards to share information with other state bodies under the ppsn.

corsav6

A friend was vetted years ago for a position volunteering at an animal rescue center. When the animal rescue center received the vetting it was noted that he made a court appearance for possession of €2.54 worth of cannabis several years previous.
He received no convictions from court for it but it was still noted.

Another friend has been in court a few times for drunk and disorderly, same thing no convictions. When he was vetted for a position for coaching a soccer team his came back clean.
I can't understand how his didn't flag up something.

BBFAN

Gatling wrote: »

Recently was vetted online in September came back cleared in 7 days ,
September is mental for vetting due to new entrants in education posts and preschools

That is absolutely the exception to the rule Gatling. I work for a nursing home and it takes minimum 20 working days to get Garda clearance for someone.

It's a ridiculous onus because staff are usually coming from another nursing home or hospital where they've already been Garda vetted.

Even for a contractor who comes in to work on the doors who works in at least 20 nursing homes he has to have Garda clearance in every single one.

It needs to become more centralised and automated.