Windscreen discs on UK motors.

Lord Nikon

Driving your vehicle in Ireland requires you to display relevant discs(Insurance, tax, and maybe NCT). However, I find it crazy that cars on UK plates can drive around without any visual proof of insurance/tax/MOT. Where I could purchase a car up North, and street park it in Dublin without any valid documents, as no one is the wiser.

Is it required by law in England to produce proof of insurance/tax/MOT at a checkpoint, as UK has the ANPR system which checks this automatically. If insurance/tax/MOT in UK are all digitized, then are they issuing paper documents for showing when at a checkpoint?

Why haven’t Ireland brought in the ANPR system, which would see a decrease in the amount of time the Gardai spend at checkpoints(checking for tax/NCT).

gooch2k9

They don't issue any certificates anymore. Insurance companies provide one online usually that can be printed off.


MOT is now just a report, no certificate for the last two or three years.

_Brian

With everything digital now every guard on the beat should have a hand held scanner, few seconds would tell if a car is covered or not. No problems with home made discs which can be hard to spot.

seamus

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Driving your vehicle in Ireland requires you to display relevant discs(Insurance, tax, and maybe NCT). However, I find it crazy that cars on UK plates can drive around without any visual proof of insurance/tax/MOT. Where I could purchase a car up North, and street park it in Dublin without any valid documents, as no one is the wiser.

Is it required by law in England to produce proof of insurance/tax/MOT at a checkpoint, as UK has the ANPR system which checks this automatically. If insurance/tax/MOT in UK are all digitized, then are they issuing paper documents for showing when at a checkpoint?

Why haven’t Ireland brought in the ANPR system, which would see a decrease in the amount of time the Gardai spend at checkpoints(checking for tax/NCT).

We do have ANPR in Ireland, but your average Garda wandering down the road or standing at a checkpoint, doesn't.

The UK have seen motor tax evasion rates triple since they abolished the discs.

Tbh, any solution that involves pay a specific motor tax on your vehicle has flaws. SORN and ANPR do a good job of keeping honest people honest, but won't catch most evaders.

Abolishing motor tax and increasing the cost of fuel is the only way forward.

Dravokivich

seamus wrote: »

Abolishing motor tax and increasing the cost of fuel is the only way forward.

We've already done that haven't we?

Caliden

Central ANPR system for Ireland is in the works between insurance companies, Gardai and revenue.

I think within the next 2 years (if not this year) we'll see it being rolled out. Your licence will be tied to your insurance which is tied to your car (tax) and Gardai will have access to all of that on a central database.

Will make it a lot more difficult for some people to drive uninsured when the ANPR in a Garda car is going off.

bazz26

seamus wrote: »

We do have ANPR in Ireland, but your average Garda wandering down the road or standing at a checkpoint, doesn't.

The UK have seen motor tax evasion rates triple since they abolished the discs.

Tbh, any solution that involves pay a specific motor tax on your vehicle has flaws. SORN and ANPR do a good job of keeping honest people honest, but won't catch most evaders.

Abolishing motor tax and increasing the cost of fuel is the only way forward.

The problem with that is you open up other avenues of evasion which might defeat the purpose, ie people living in border counties popping over the border to fill up with cheaper fuel thus avoiding any motor tax payment. Sticking it on fuel in the south may also encourage large scale fuel laundering between the north and south as it become more lucrative.

L1011

Caliden wrote: »

insurance which is tied to your car (tax)

This is going to require a structural change in how fleet policies work in Ireland; which is one of the reasons we don't have a full reg-to-insurance DB currently.

My employers fleet policy covers every vehicle owned by or leased by the company. The insurer doesn't have a full list, just an assurance its below a certain number, and that's the number of certs/disks they issue. Insurance certs have no regs on them.

I've never been asked to produce a cert by AGS, mainly because I don't drive them very often, but I presume I'd have to produce the letter I have from our fleet manager stating I'm on the policy as well as it certainly won't have my name on it!

CiniO

Problem in Ireland is that Insurance covers only certain drivers (normally insured person + named drivers) so any possible database gardai might have won't help.

Even if their ANPR database was working 100% (which it isn't at the moment AFAIR due to insurers not providing all details up to date), Gardai still wouldn't be able to tell purely by checking reg with ANPR if driver is insured or not.

In other words, ANPR might check reg number, check in database if car has insurance policy attached to it or not, but they can't check if person driving is actually covered by that policy or not.

This IMO makes the whole system pointless.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

Problem in Ireland is that Insurance covers only certain drivers (normally insured person + named drivers) so any possible database gardai might have won't help.

Even if their ANPR database was working 100% (which it isn't at the moment AFAIR due to insurers not providing all details up to date), Gardai still wouldn't be able to tell purely by checking reg with ANPR if driver is insured or not.

In other words, ANPR might check reg number, check in database if car has insurance policy attached to it or not, but they can't check if person driving is actually covered by that policy or not.

This IMO makes the whole system pointless.

No system is fool proof and having an instant knowledge of whether a vehicle is insured or not is a start. Even the EU way of insuring the car still requires the police to check the person driving has a licence, so that's useless system also.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

No system is fool proof and having an instant knowledge of whether a vehicle is insured or not is a start. Even the EU way of insuring the car still requires the police to check the person driving has a licence, so that's useless system also.

It's not useless.
Licence is separate thing. Insurance is separate.
Indeed to check if driver is licenced, currently police would need to pull over a car to check it and that's probably like that all over the world - no way around it.

But way it works with insurance on the Continent is way more efficient, where policy covers anyone to drive, and therefore police by checking ANPR on reg number can tell straight away if insurance policy is in place or not.
Most countries also require policy to be active at all times when car is registered (issued with number plates).
That way is way more effective than Irish (or UK) way.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Dravokivich wrote: »

We've already done that haven't we?

Jack Lynch 1977 general election.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

CiniO wrote: »

Problem in Ireland is that Insurance covers only certain drivers

The new thing i've heard of lately is drivers blatantly driving around with home made discs/not legitimate and driving on, the attitude is if they crash 'the fund will cover it anyway'

And even with a court order the odds of recovering the money if their sole income is state benefits is virtually zero.

1874

CiniO wrote: »

It's not useless.
Licence is separate thing. Insurance is separate.
Indeed to check if driver is licenced, currently police would need to pull over a car to check it and that's probably like that all over the world - no way around it.

But way it works with insurance on the Continent is way more efficient, where policy covers anyone to drive, and therefore police by checking ANPR on reg number can tell straight away if insurance policy is in place or not.
Most countries also require policy to be active at all times when car is registered (issued with number plates).
That way is way more effective than Irish (or UK) way.

The problem with that is that is how insurance is dealt with here, one driver may be a significant risk and another not, or have traffic convictions or be banned, I dont really get how that a car just being insured works? it sounds great really as it sounds like theyre not getting gouged like we are here for that to be even considered, but seems there could be downsides, maybe if we had a less penal system for insurance it'd work here, I can see they might bring in the worst of the system (being insured all the time) and none of the benefits (any driver or reduced costs), there seems to be no political or business will to change anything though.

Crock Rock

I wouldn't trust the abolition of insurance discs here.

If someone crashes into you here all you need to see is the company the other person is insured with and their reg number so you can make a claim.

If there is no disc, you don't know whom to contact. The third party could lie about which company they're insured with. If you gave the bacon the reg and asked them to find out the insurance company, they'd just tell you it's a civil matter and wouldn't bother their hole helping you (like most Gardaí).




Poster banned for calling Gardai "bacon"

ayux4rj6zql2ph

seamus wrote: »

Abolishing motor tax and increasing the cost of fuel is the only way forward.

Bilking is already a problem in this country, that proposal would see it soar still further

Lord Nikon

Crock Rock wrote: »

I wouldn't trust the abolition of insurance discs here.

If someone crashes into you here all you need to see is the company the other person is insured with and their reg number so you can make a claim.

If there is no disc, you don't know whom to contact. The third party could lie about which company they're insured with. If you gave the bacon the reg and asked them to find out the insurance company, they'd just tell you it's a civil matter and wouldn't bother their hole helping you (like most Gardaí).

Ah, but if the driver hits you and drives off, do you have time take a photo or his insurance disc? If someone has a fake insurance disc that means nothing also. If the car is insured then all you need is the reg plate, and all cars are insured(on the continent) for the minimum insurance cover. Isn't insurance covered through tax on petrol/diesel?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Ah, but if the driver hits you and drives off, do you have time take a photo or his insurance disc?

This exact scenario happened to me in 2015. I got the registration number, Gardai did the rest.

CiniO

1874 wrote: »

The problem with that is that is how insurance is dealt with here, one driver may be a significant risk and another not, or have traffic convictions or be banned, I dont really get how that a car just being insured works? it sounds great really as it sounds like theyre not getting gouged like we are here for that to be even considered, but seems there could be downsides, maybe if we had a less penal system for insurance it'd work here, I can see they might bring in the worst of the system (being insured all the time) and none of the benefits (any driver or reduced costs), there seems to be no political or business will to change anything though.

I'm not sure exactly how it works country by country, but in Poland f.e. it's the vehicle owner who is responsible for obtaining insurance policy for his car and then it's his choice who he allows to drive his car.

So you're saying that in Ireland drivers considered higher risk will attract higher premium. (i.e. those with many penalty points, driving convictions, bad insurance record, etc). Insurers penalize them with high premiums, beaucse they need to be named on the policy.
In Poland insurers can't do that so throughly, as they might issue policy to vehicle owner who has very good driving/insurance record, but car can be driven by anyone, including drivers of high risk...

Well - the answer is that it's the vehicle owner who takes the risk of loosing his NCB and effectively sky rocketing his premium.

So f.e. I have a car here in Poland and have full NCB on it. I drive it safely and never caused an accident. Insures are happy with it and my premium is low.
But if I start allowing dangerous drivers to drive my car, and they'll crash, then I'll loose my NCB and my premium will go up a lot.
I wouldn't like that to happen, so I don't allow anyone risky to drive my car.

It's simple enough and it works.
Those who allow dangerous drivers to drive their cars which results in crashes and claims, will have their premiums much highers than those who don't.

Squidgy Black

CiniO wrote: »

Problem in Ireland is that Insurance covers only certain drivers (normally insured person + named drivers) so any possible database gardai might have won't help.

Even if their ANPR database was working 100% (which it isn't at the moment AFAIR due to insurers not providing all details up to date), Gardai still wouldn't be able to tell purely by checking reg with ANPR if driver is insured or not.

In other words, ANPR might check reg number, check in database if car has insurance policy attached to it or not, but they can't check if person driving is actually covered by that policy or not.

This IMO makes the whole system pointless.

It's the exact same in the UK, insured by driver. What regularly happens over there is the ANPR system flags it as say only a male in his 40s is insured to drive the car, and it's a female or a young male driving it.

Insuring by vehicle and not by driver would be great if it could be put into place, but there's no way in hell it'll happen over here, particularly considering the premiums we have to pay at the moment for young drivers etc

Lord Nikon

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Is it required by law in England to produce proof of insurance/tax/MOT at a checkpoint,m

Checkpoints are illegal in the UK you can’t be stopped randomly like you are here, there has to be a reason. Proper order too.

punisher5112

Ahmed Uptight Transportation wrote: »

Checkpoints are illegal in the UK you can’t be stopped randomly like you are here, there has to be a reason. Proper order too.

Do you mean the US?

Squidgy Black

Ahmed Uptight Transportation wrote: »

Checkpoints are illegal in the UK you can’t be stopped randomly like you are here, there has to be a reason. Proper order too.

You can't be stopped without probable cause, but a checkpoint is a completely different matter. There's plenty of checkpoints for drink driving across the UK.

It's the same in Ireland, the Garda can't pull you over without probable cause. But the definition of probable cause means they only have to suspect you of something that could be contravening a law or potentially committing an offence.

mickdw

It abit of a joke how they are allowed to drive around Ireland with a clear windscreen.
I think Ireland needs to tighten up that. Request that anyone using a UK car here has full prove of insurance, tax and mot in the car at all time.
I know there is this argument that if a car is road legal in its own country, it is road legal in any eu country. The difficulty is proving it here hence they must be made to carry full proof.
There is an english audi a6 driving around my town for about a year. I looked it up. Failed it's last mot on a list of things about 18 months ago so it's taken over here and driven around with no hassles.

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

Do you mean the US?

No the UK, it’s similar in the US though afaik.

BailMeOut

seamus wrote: »

Abolishing motor tax and increasing the cost of fuel is the only way forward.

Not possible unless NI did the same thing.

CiniO

mickdw wrote: »

It abit of a joke how they are allowed to drive around Ireland with a clear windscreen.

But same applies to car from any other country in Ireland (from Germany, Spain, Poland, etc...) There's normally nothing on a windscreen afaik.

I think Ireland needs to tighten up that. Request that anyone using a UK car here has full prove of insurance, tax and mot in the car at all time.
I know there is this argument that if a car is road legal in its own country, it is road legal in any eu country. The difficulty is proving it here hence they must be made to carry full proof.

All over EU, if person is driving a foreign registered vehicle, they need to carry registration cert + insurance cert.
This is very strictly controlled in most countries. F.e. I definitely wouldn't like to be pulled over or encounter a roadside check in Germany driving my Irish registered car and not carrying logbook and insurance cert.
I don't really know why this isn't enforced in Ireland, as surely it could have been if gards wanted to do it.

Roadworthiness cert like NCT or MOT or TUV is bit different matter, as I don't think there are any EU wide regulations for verifying those on foreign cars. There definitely should be though.
Local road/motortax is normally only required in country where car is registered, so it's none of interest of foreign authorities on foreign registered car. (like you're never going to be asked for valid motortax on Irish registered car driven in Germany)

punisher5112

Ahmed Uptight Transportation wrote: »

No the UK, it’s similar in the US though afaik.

UK they do checkpoints though.....

In the US each state has different rules and laws.

In the US in most cases they need a reason from not indicating to not stopping or faulty lights etc etc etc.

1874

1874 wrote: »

The problem with that is that is how insurance is dealt with here, one driver may be a significant risk and another not, or have traffic convictions or be banned, I dont really get how that a car just being insured works? .

The thing is some of what you are concerned about is already possible here as while on the face of it our system works as you said loading based on the person not the car etc there are loads of instance where it all goes out the window (I don’t mean I disagree with it, I think our system is stupid and we are being made fools of by insurance companies I’d much prefer a system like other eu counties or better again Austria where 3rd part instance is dirty cheap and comes with the tax).

As an example I can use my driving other cars to drive anything I want pretty much, I don’t have any restrictions on value or engine size. Then you have open drive, with isn’t far off the Europen system burried in our system. Ok it’s restricted to over 25’s but other than that anyone with a license can drive your car regardless of what it is once they have an eu license (again I see this as a good thing) but to use your example they could have no experience and drive any car no matter how powerful that has an open drive, they could have multiple previous convictions, they could have claims pending etc etc.

Another is the spouse always covered on your policy. I know of a married couple where the wife can’t get a reasonable quote for a bike due to a history of multiple crashes and claims yet can drive the husbands very expensive and very powerful car no questions asked. Again of course a spouse should be automatically covered my overall point is that the concerns you expressed aren’t exclusive to the eu system.

Atlantic Dawn

ANPR should be introduced across the country, any car spotted with no insurance showing should result in a ticket similar to a speeding ticket where the owner of the car has to declare what insurance policy covered the car at that time.

punisher5112

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

ANPR should be introduced across the country, any car spotted with no insurance showing should result in a ticket similar to a speeding ticket where the owner of the car has to declare what insurance policy covered the car at that time.

They had it running back a few years ago and it would show 500,000 as uninsured many even had cars taken that were insured so they stopped relying on it fully but use it for tax, NCT and markers such as theft or drugs.

Hyundai i30 can't fit the equipment so the only cars that have it were Focus, Mondeo, Vectra, Insignia, BMW 530d, Hyundai i40 and so on.

Atlantic Dawn

punisher5112 wrote: »

They had it running back a few years ago and it would show 500,000 as uninsured many even had cars taken that were insured so they stopped relying on it fully but use it for tax, NCT and markers such as theft or drugs.

Hyundai i30 can't fit the equipment so the only cars that have it were Focus, Mondeo, Vectra, Insignia, BMW 530d, Hyundai i40 and so on.

If that's true whoever decided to buy Hyundai i30's should be keelhauled for wasting public funds.

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You can't be stopped without probable cause, but a checkpoint is a completely different matter. There's plenty of checkpoints for drink driving across the UK.

It's the same in Ireland, the Garda can't pull you over without probable cause. But the definition of probable cause means they only have to suspect you of something that could be contravening a law or potentially committing an offence.

I lived there a few years ago and never saw a single one, was told by plenty living there that you have to do something like not indicate to be stopped etc, loads of people drink and drive there as they know once they drive normally they can’t be stopped. I read up on it at the time (not recently) and anything I came across indicted you can’t do checkpoints in the UK as they would be breaking the rules around not stopping people without reason.

Even look at the cop shows in the UK, I’ve watched vast amounts of them and never once was a checkpoint involved in one yet here checkpoints are one of the moat fundamental parts of policing the roads.

CrankyHaus

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If that's true whoever decided to buy Hyundai i30's should be keelhauled for wasting public funds.

I agree but given how technology develops I'd be surprised if a miniaturised version of the system isn't avaliable now/shortly.

When you think about what's involved (decent camera, recognition software and a system that can run it, high speed mobile data link to national database) it shouldn't be impossible to have a handheld version for foot gardai or even traffic wardens.

No checkpoints allowed in the UK is BS. I've been stopped at one there before. The police there are just modernised enough to know it's a wasteful and outmoded use of resources in most circumstances.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

ANPR should be introduced across the country, any car spotted with no insurance showing should result in a ticket similar to a speeding ticket where the owner of the car has to declare what insurance policy covered the car at that time.

If they don't pay for insurance they sure as hell aren't going to pay any fine.

mickdw

I think the anpr system only takes insurance data from declaration of insurance made when taxing. The result of this is that anyone who has renewed insurance since last taxing will show up as not having a current policy.

punisher5112

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If that's true whoever decided to buy Hyundai i30's should be keelhauled for wasting public funds.

Very true the dash shape won't allow as they remove the fitted stereo and these are then put back when vehicles are sold at auction.

Another major safety issue is the sirens on most of the fleet from 2015 onwards where it's so low and in some cases it sounds like an ambulance.

The lighting set up is atrocious and dangerous.

On the front of i30/40 unmarked units they have a dash light and a blue led in both rear indicators which can only be seen if you stand at a 45° angle from the side of the car.

I will admit a very small handful got an extra 2 rear window lights which flash red/blue which were fitted to some of the traffic units(roads policing), also some now have an extra led block at each front top corner of the windscreen which is a great help.

I've complained and got a answer that it passes EU regulations.

I've seen so many near misses now it's actually laughable as people can't hear or see these cars and them driven at speed.

I feel for the drivers in the force having to use them but they should really be refusing to drive them.

The previous models widely used such as focus and Mondeo had light fitted to the side of the front bumpers so when lit the cars actually could be seen so much better.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

It's not useless.
Licence is separate thing. Insurance is separate.
Indeed to check if driver is licenced, currently police would need to pull over a car to check it and that's probably like that all over the world - no way around it.

But way it works with insurance on the Continent is way more efficient, where policy covers anyone to drive, and therefore police by checking ANPR on reg number can tell straight away if insurance policy is in place or not.
Most countries also require policy to be active at all times when car is registered (issued with number plates).
That way is way more effective than Irish (or UK) way.

So essentially the police have to pull the car over to make sure that the driver is insured, no licence means no insurance. So the EU system is as effective as ours.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

So essentially the police have to pull the car over to make sure that the driver is insured, no licence means no insurance. So the EU system is as effective as ours.

Not really.
As I said I can't be speaking for other countries, but in Poland if driver is not licensed, or drunk or does hit and run, third party insurance still works. So third parties still get compensated for loss.
Obviously in those cases insurer rocoups a cost of a claim from the driver. And I must say they are very effective in that, meaning there are known cases of people losing their homes and whatever they had.

Generally speaking in short system is designed in that way that driving uninsured is absolutely not worth is, and very uncommon. And that's how it should be.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

Not really.
As I said I can't be speaking for other countries, but in Poland if driver is not licensed, or drunk or does hit and run, third party insurance still works. So third parties still get compensated for loss.
Obviously in those cases insurer rocoups a cost of a claim from the driver. And I must say they are very effective in that, meaning there are known cases of people losing their homes and whatever they had.

Generally speaking in short system is designed in that way that driving uninsured is absolutely not worth is, and very uncommon. And that's how it should be.

The police still need to stop and talk to the driver to make sure that they are insured through. So both systems run into the same problem in that the only way to be sure that the driver is legal is to stop them.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

The police still need to stop and talk to the driver to make sure that they are insured through. So both systems run into the same problem in that the only way to be sure that the driver is legal is to stop them.

Well again not precisely.
Firstly police have access to insurance database, so they can check reg number and find out if there is insurance on the car or not - so no need to be pulling a driver over.

And secondly, insurance in obligatory for every vehicle, so once you're registered owner of a vehicle, you need to make sure there is insurance policy active on it at all times. Even one day gap, and it will show up on central database, and you will receive fine in the post. Fines are rather hefty (multiply of cost of insurance) so definitely not worth it.


So insurance is not an issue. Vast majority of cars in the country are insured and all drivers driving them are covered.

I must agree though that there are other offences which require police to pull over cars and check. Or do organised checkpoints - that includes detecting unlicensed drivers, drunks drivers, etc... No way around it.
None of these though have any impact on validity of third party insurance.

pa990

seamus wrote: »

Abolishing motor tax and increasing the cost of fuel is the only way forward.

We did that in the 80's
Motor tax was reintroduced not long after, and the extra few pence stayed.

The island of Guernsey abolished motor tax and now they have expensive fuel, and now their parliament are making grumblings every so often to reintroduce motor tax as they need extra funds.

CiniO

pa990 wrote: »

We did that in the 80's
Motor tax was reintroduced not long after, and the extra few pence stayed.

The island of Guernsey abolished motor tax and now they have expensive fuel, and now their parliament are making grumblings every so often to reintroduce motor tax as they need extra funds.

Poland had a motortax in a form similar to Ireland, but abolished it in 1997. It was collected by local authorities (equivalent of county councils).
Government after abolishing it, decided to subsidize local authorities from money collected in fuel excise. But important thing was that fuel excise never rose because of that.
Until today Poland has one of the cheapest fuels in EU, and still no motortax payable on vehicles.

Henry Ford III

Let's all move to Poland!

Something is seriously wrong with the system where you plaster your windscreen with various discs and still have to go to show your insurance cert to the Guards. I suggest we need to add another disc on the windscreen that verifies that all the other discs on the windscreen are a valid combination.

Why do all of the other countries in Europe manage with 0 discs and the police can check on the spot if necessary that everything is in order? And in many countries you can lend your car to anybody you trust without going through hoops. This system is just so labourous and inflexible.

swarlb

samih wrote: »

Something is seriously wrong with the system where you plaster your windscreen with various discs and still have to go to show your insurance cert to the Guards. I suggest we need to add another disc on the windscreen that verifies that all the other discs on the windscreen are a valid combination.

Why do all of the other countries in Europe manage with 0 discs and the police can check on the spot if necessary that everything is in order? And in many countries you can lend your car to anybody you trust without going through hoops. This system is just so labourous and inflexible.

Who cares what it's like 'in other countries'... Why on earth do we have to be seen to follow what everyone one else does blindly. Which country should we emulate... Belgiun... Holland... The Papel State ??
Just accept what we have and get on with it...
It's a brilliant system anyway.. you just look at the windscreen and it more or less tells you everything you need to know about the car..
As opposed to the brilliant UK system, that tells you absolutely NOTHING..

swarlb

swarlb wrote: »

Who cares what it's like 'in other countries'... Why on earth do we have to be seen to follow what everyone one else does blindly. Which country should we emulate... Belgiun... Holland... The Papel State ??
Just accept what we have and get on with it...
It's a brilliant system anyway.. you just look at the windscreen and it more or less tells you everything you need to know about the car..
As opposed to the brilliant UK system, that tells you absolutely NOTHING..

A system with a windscreen full of paper proves nothing unfortunately about the state of the insurance. You can receive a disc and then immediately cancel, just don't send the disc back. It does confirm the tax and NCT though if you can verify that the discs are not fake as they are not pay as you go. But why are they needed. The system should be similar to UK where you just get a fine automatically posted if you're spotted on the road without insurance, tax, or NCT. No excuses needed or required.

And the insurance system is very inflexible here in practice compared to the likes of Finland where anybody with a valid licence for that class of vehicle can drive any insured vehicle if the owner trusts them. So you can for exaple borrow your mate's van without an issue if you need to pick up stuff from the hardware. Of your dad can drive you car when visiting. Etc etc. Would be a brilliant system compared to one here I think. And the cops can verify on the spot that all is in order both with the insurance and your licence using their terminal, realtime. And if the owner of the vehicle has it reported stolen they can check that too if the driver acts suspiciously.

Dravokivich

samih wrote: »

A system with a windscreen full of paper proves nothing unfortunately about the state of the insurance. You can receive a disc and then immediately cancel, just don't send the disc back. It does confirm the tax and NCT though if you can verify that the discs are not fake as they are not pay as you go.

And the insurance system is very inflexible here in practice compared to the likes of Finland where anybody with a valid licence for that class of vehicle can drive any insured vehicle if the owner trusts them. So you can for exaple borrow your mate's van without an issue if you need to pick up stuff from the hardware. Of your dad can drive you car when visiting. Etc etc. Would be a brilliant system compared to one here I think. And the cops and verify on the spot that all is in order both with the insurance and your licence using their terminal, realtime. And if the owner of the vehicle has it reported stolen they can check that too if the driver acts suspiciously.

The insurance disc doesn't stipulate the conditions of cover, while the insurance cert does.

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

The insurance disc doesn't stipulate the conditions of cover, while the insurance cert does.

Yea, so rather than having a disc you should just carry the cert. But again the cert doesn't proof anything about the validity of the insurance. It states that you at the time of printing had insurance for the car driver combo on the paper. But anytime after printing you can add more drivers or cancel the policy and not send the cert back.

redcup342

samih wrote: »

Something is seriously wrong with the system where you plaster your windscreen with various discs and still have to go to show your insurance cert to the Guards. I suggest we need to add another disc on the windscreen that verifies that all the other discs on the windscreen are a valid combination.

Why do all of the other countries in Europe manage with 0 discs and the police can check on the spot if necessary that everything is in order? And in many countries you can lend your car to anybody you trust without going through hoops. This system is just so labourous and inflexible.

Because the other European countries have mandatory Citizen Registration at a local authority, a mandatory requirement to carry identification at all times and finally centralised databases for Tax/Insurance and Car Testing

All of which an Irish person would go f*cking mental if they found out they could be tracked so easily.

The current system works fine for the law abiding citizens as renewing you insurance after pulling a cancel/not sending back stunt would make you uninsureable in the future. But the system is needlessly strict and there is no need for all the paper on screen. Times have moved on and these days you don't need to go to the bank anymore to withdraw money using a little book that shows how much money is in your account. The computers have internet now you know.

If any car used on the road had just one fixed policy the ANPR would be able to spot the scam artists and other law disobeying drivers so it would actually be a win win situation for all but them. And less admin costs and scamming would bring down the costs I hope.