Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135883#Comment_122135883

With Conway unexpectedly retiring this season, Frisch leaving, Munster being blocked from a Centre signing cos of Nankivell, so SOB likely now having to cover centre, and our 2 academy players currently only in year 1… it doesn’t seem all that strange, imo.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136498#Comment_122136498

Thats correlation and causation. Farrell couldnt have picked him at Racing.

No, but he could have picked him for the summer tests in 2021. With so many players on Lions duty, it might have been a good time to bring him back and get him going again.

Farrel did actually select him for the november international squad in 2021, so he certainly was on Farrell radar

I'll admit I had forgotten that. So that's one call-up and no caps in three years?

Youre picking a very strange hill to die on here.

I might say the same to you!

leakyboots

Dig up!

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136539#Comment_122136539

I'll admit I had forgotten that. So that's one call-up and no caps in three years?

Correct. But the initial deal - which is the one that was reported wasn't a typical Provincial deal, and had some IRFU top-up - was only 1 year. Right?

Hank the DJ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136523#Comment_122136523

SoB won't be covering centre, he is a centre and Tom Farrell is on the way from Connacht by all accounts along with Kilgallen, if Haley is going a top class fullback would be high on the shopping list.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136523#Comment_122136523

Yeah, I guess not, if it is the case they can't recruit in the front row.

It just wouldn't necessarily strike me as an area of weakness in the Munster squad as currently constructed where you have Zebo, Haley, Daly & Nash, supplemented by Campbell, Liam Coombes etc, and then high potential guys like Ben O'Connor coming through but I guess there is uncertainty around the long term future of both Zebo and Haley (and even if Zebo does one more year, that's likely the last one you'd figure) and Campbell and Coombes have been injured so much it's hard to plan around them.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136568#Comment_122136568

He is a centre who's predominantly been a wing for us (10 wing starts vs 2 centre starts).

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136571#Comment_122136571

I'd 100% prefer some recruitment at front-row (particularly prop), but there's been rumours of some potential signings being blocked there.

If you look at the make-up of the rest of the squad:

• Back row and half-back doesn't make any sense to sign an NIQ.
• Centre and 2nd row, we can't because we have an NIQ there already.
• With Frisch leaving and SOB likely back to centre, it makes some sense for it to be a back-3 player.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136539#Comment_122136539

I might say the same to you!

im not the one who said this hyperbole:

 To be coming home on a 1 year contract for (allegedly) peanuts and not being in the Ireland frame probably wasn’t the plan

i think after the last few posts its clear, to me anyway, that it wasnt a 'peanuts' contract and that he was in the ireland frame, by virtue of being selected to the nov internationals squad in 2021.

you may think otherwise, which is fine, but in reality we're all just surmising here in the vacuum of any actual declared figure.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136565#Comment_122136565

I'm sorry but the logic does not stack up.

Munster were so desperate to get this guy that they went to the IRFU for help. That's plausible.

IRFU saw so much value in bringing him home that they agreed to go above and beyond their normal salary practices and agree to a big package, in the middle of the worst financial crisis in IRFU history, even as they're making their own people redundant? That's significantly less plausible.

Not only that, they invent some new type of quasi-central contract to seal the deal. I guess it's possible.

And after all that, they only sign him to a 1-year deal? They land this massive coup, jump through all these hoops, and don't bother tying him down for a second year? Seems odd.

For a guy who had fallen out of favour before he left, and is called up to one national squad and then discarded when he returns?

It's all possible but it seems completely at odds with everything we know about IRFU and Nucifora.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136592#Comment_122136592

Have heard the same things about a restriction on front row NIQs across the provinces. Not from any overly credible or official source, but atm the lack of NIQ signings in the front row is kind of noticeable.

I don't get it - it's the sort of thing that holds back the whole squad arguably. Munster are at a point now with a quality front row they'd likely be strong European contenders (as the rest of the squad looks built to compete) and similarly, if Leinster don't get a replacement for Mike Ala'alatoa they'll be in a dire situation at THP next year.

I'm not saying it needs to be a free for all either, but I don't understand hamstringing the whole squad's ability to compete because of obvious deficiencies either.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136655#Comment_122136655

This is all hyperbolic.

It doesn't have to be an all-singing-all-dancing bumper package, and a massive coup for the IRFU, for it to have been a deal the IRFU assited, and for Zebo to be on Farrell's radar at the time.

The latter is exactly what has been reported and seems like exactly what happened.

With regards this….

they invent some new type of quasi-central contract to seal the deal.

… interested if anyone knows, cos I'm not sure of the timeline, but didn't the PONI contracts start around / after this?

Cookiemunster

Zebos contract was very much like the contracts Murray and POM just signed. Munster couldn't afford to pay the salaries they wanted, so the IRFU stepped in with a top up beyond that. I don't see how this is in any way controversial

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136761#Comment_122136761

It doesn't have to be an all-singing-all-dancing bumper package, and a massive coup for the IRFU, for it to have been a deal the IRFU assited

That's precisely my original point.

and for Zebo to be on Farrell's radar at the time.

Of course he was on the radar, he has 35 caps and Farrell had coached him for Ireland previously. There's a world of difference between being on the radar and the IRFU stumping up a big wad of cash to bring him home.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136777#Comment_122136777

Fwiw, I've said I'm not going to argue he was on 300k. But equally you've gone from this:

And finally - and no one but me seems to have noticed this - Andy Farrell didn't want to pick him.

to this:

Of course he was on the radar, he has 35 caps and Farrell had coached him for Ireland previously.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136655#Comment_122136655

You have to spend money to make money. Zebo is an entertainer, someone people will pay to watch. It's a bit like the Jordie Barrett deal at Leinster. With them moving to a larger stadium they need a PR boost to get people through the turnstiles. I'd imagine Barrett's contract will largely pay for itself from more people turning up to watch because he's playing. I don't think you can discount this element with the Zebo deal, quite apart from him being a big game player and a Munster player who has achieved a high profile with the national team, which is rare enough recently.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136777#Comment_122136777

That's precisely my original point.

Wel no, your original point was that it was a low value bog standard provincial contract and the financial help of the IRFU was just a PR exercise to pretend they went over and above normal.

Which is all possible, but it's all just supposition. I think Munster highlighting the IRFU's financial help in this, and only this contract, makes it far more likely that it was in fact different from a normal deal because they are basically claiming it is and I see no reason to doubt them. Maybe they shouldn't have done it, maybe it was a bad deal etc, but I just don't see the reason to cast doubt on it.

Anyway, he clearly moved onto a normal deal one year later. I'm sure he's happy enough he got three more seasons with Munster.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137025#Comment_122137025

PR exercise to pretend they went over and above normal.

No, that wasn't my point - just that they wanted credit for doing what they normally do, given the deep unhappiness of Munster fans with IRFU. My entire point is that they didn't go over and above normal and were at pains to point out what a good deal they'd got.

Which is all possible, but it's all just supposition. 

It's an even bigger supposition that they came up with a brand new type of contract for a guy who was on the fringes of the national team three years previously, had been a pretty vocal critic of IRFU for the duration of his absence, and was now the wrong side of 30. A bog standard provincial deal just seems so much more likely.

Munster highlighting the IRFU's financial help in this, and only this contract

Again - a month prior, they had let JJH and Sweetnam go ostensibly for budgetary reasons, so maybe they just wanted a plausible reason as to how they could now afford Zebo.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137121#Comment_122137121

My entire point is that they didn't go over and above normal.

This is exactly what I said. You are claiming it was a PR exercise from Munster to pretend otherwise. Which, frankly, I would find weird.

It's not a bigger supposition that the IRFU funded it over and above normal, because that is literally what JvG implied.

so maybe they just wanted a plausible reason as to how they could now afford Zebo.

Maybe the plausible reason was the IRFU gave them more money just like they said?

Like, one reading of this requires you to believe JvG and Munster were deliberately obfuscating the truth whereas the direct reading is pretty clear. I'm not even saying you're definitely wrong as none of us know, but it's certainly the more conspiratorial bent on the whole situation.

The brought him back on a one year deal, the IRFU helped, he was called to a squad, they decided he wasn't in the running for Ireland in reality, they left Munster to pick up his next contract seems a pretty straightforwardly reasonable explanation of the whole thing.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137158#Comment_122137158

You are claiming it was a PR exercise from Munster to pretend otherwise

You keep saying this, so I'll keep pointing out that I said the exact opposite.

All that happened was that the publicity highlighted what has long been common practice - however, the average casual rugby fan would not understand that IRFU co-fund provincial contracts, so here was a nice opportunity for Munster and IRFU to play nice together after a lot of rancour directed at IRFU in the preceding years.

you to believe JvG and Munster were deliberately obfuscating the truth

? I said nothing like that.

it's certainly the more conspiratorial bent 

I think that's a bit unfair tbh, all I have said from the start is that this was a pretty routine deal that presented a nice PR opportunity. I don't think that's a conspiracy like.

he was called to a squad, they decided he wasn't in the running for Ireland, they left Munster to pick up his next contract seems a pretty straightforwardly reasonable explanation of the whole thing.

Again, I'm struggling to see where we disagree. Even on his current contract, IRFU are "helping out".

Cookiemunster

Anyways………

Both Ahern and Crowley were in today's training pics, so hopefully they'll be good for Friday.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137521#Comment_122137521

Came on to post the same thing, also saw Pa Campbell in the training pics

phog

Officials for Friday night

Edinburgh Rugby v Munster

Hive Stadium, Edinburgh – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA & SA

Referee: Gianluca Gnecchi (FIR, 32nd league game)

AR 1: Ru Campbell (SRU) AR 2: Finlay Brown (SRU)

TMO: Stu Terheege (RFU)

lawrencesummers

whatever deal zebo got was good business, he has been excellent this season and we havent missed haley who was a mainstay in the side the last while.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138298#Comment_122138298

I'm slightly surprised he's potentially not being offered another one (which I didn't expect to be saying 12 months ago)

budhabob

I see a few people mention Haley potentially gone - what's that about?

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136672#Comment_122136672

The part that the irfu are missing on this to me is that development isn't like a magical thing.

You won't play Wycherly and Clarkson in big knockout games and that will magically make them ready to play in big knockout games. Its actually better development to have guys play at their approriate level and trust provincial coaches to know what that level is.

I guess the counter to that is that the irfu think that they are ready. That seems questionable to me but might be true.

I still think it should be three NIQs in any position you want and that's it. It would be way more simple and make way more sense.

ulsteru20s

There's kind of a feeling of whiplash with munster rumours. A big money back three signing doesn't really jive with rumours of them cutting costs. Could be private funding maybe.

If i was them i'd sign a 'back three' player who could also play centre, you know.. every now and again.

Tipp1991

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138760#Comment_122138760

I don't know myself. He's contracted for next season.

Tipp1991

I just wish there was a bit more clarity around it. I believe Munster had a NIQ loosehead lined up last year and were told at the 11th hour by Nucifora that there was no chance of signing them as the options available had to be developed for the Irish team. A couple of weeks later, Ulster announced Kitshoff on a 3 year deal