Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

errlloyd

That's a fairly selective group of Munster imports isn't it? Since Cronin joined Leinster, CJ Stander, Conway, Haley, Carbery, Taute, Saili, Beirne, Bootha, Cloete, Kleyn, Chisolm, Van Der Heaven, Alby Mathewson, Rhys Marshall, Chris Farrell, Sammy Arnold and Tyler Bleyendaal at least have all been signed by Munster and go on to play European rugby.

Now thats 2 All Black capped players, 3 Springboks, one who has gone on to be a test Lion, several have go on to be test Ireland players. You can complain all you like about the quality of your signings, but Farrell, Conway, Beirne, Marshall, and Carbery are all players we'd take (back) off you if we could now.

Signings are not the problem

Buer

mun1 wrote:

the IRFU foisted Graham Henry and Lancaster on Leinster.

That'll be news to Mick Dawson.

Erik Shun

errlloyd wrote: »

That's a fairly selective group of Munster imports isn't it? Since Cronin joined Leinster, CJ Stander, Conway, Haley, Carbery, Taute, Saili, Beirne, Bootha, Cloete, Kleyn, Chisolm, Van Der Heaven, Alby Mathewson, Rhys Marshall, Chris Farrell, Sammy Arnold and Tyler Bleyendaal at least have all been signed by Munster and go on to play European rugby.

Now thats 2 All Black capped players, 3 Springboks, one who has gone on to be a test Lion, several have go on to be test Ireland players. You can complain all you like about the quality of your signings, but Farrell, Conway, Beirne, Marshall, and Carbery are all players we'd take (back) off you if we could now.

Signings are not the problem

We discussed this about 5 years ago ..with special emphasis on NIQ imports

mun1

errlloyd wrote: »

That's a fairly selective group of Munster imports isn't it? Since Cronin joined Leinster, CJ Stander, Conway, Haley, Carbery, Taute, Saili, Beirne, Bootha, Cloete, Kleyn, Chisolm, Van Der Heaven, Alby Mathewson, Rhys Marshall, Chris Farrell, Sammy Arnold and Tyler Bleyendaal at least have all been signed by Munster and go on to play European rugby.

Now thats 2 All Black capped players, 3 Springboks, one who has gone on to be a test Lion, several have go on to be test Ireland players. You can complain all you like about the quality of your signings, but Farrell, Conway, Beirne, Marshall, and Carbery are all players we'd take (back) off you if we could now.

Signings are not the problem

My point was that Leinster have bought in players who have been excellent fardy, henshaw, Lowe etc who have brought Leinster to the next level and brought them near to saracens level.
Munster imports haven’t had the same impact.

mun1

Buer wrote: »

That'll be news to Mick Dawson.

That the same Mick Dawson who ultimately works for the IRFU ?
Why so touchy about the help given to Leinster in their time of need ?
I only hope they can do the same for munster.

The Lost Sheep

mun1 wrote: »

That the same Mick Dawson who ultimately works for the IRFU?
Why so touchy about the help given to Leinster in their time of need?
I only hope they can do the same for munster.

Munster have got more than enough support from IRFU in times of need. Dont delude yourself to think they havent.
Only one touchy is you.
What Munster need is changes that are more long term for me and the improvements will only be seen in 4/5 years minimum.

Burkie1203

mun1 wrote: »

That the same Mick Dawson who ultimately works for the IRFU ?
Why so touchy about the help given to Leinster in their time of need ?
I only hope they can do the same for munster.

You do realise the IRFU plough a LOT of money into Munster every year like all provinces. Maybe Leinster just make better decisions?

Buer

mun1 wrote:

That the same Mick Dawson who ultimately works for the IRFU ? Why so touchy about the help given to Leinster in their time of need ? I only hope they can do the same for munster.

Just offering clarification for the situation but people generally understand how the provinces function already and their levels of autonomy in their operations.

mun1

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Munster have got more than enough support from IRFU in times of need. Dont delude yourself to think they havent.
Only one touchy is you.
What Munster need is changes that are more long term for me and the improvements will only be seen in 4/5 years minimum.

Ok, if you say so .
Why so angry, your team deservedly won yesterday, are you not happy ?
A lot of leinsterboys very angry on here today. Why ?
It’s only a game after all

Buer

Welcome to the Leinster flock, Lost Sheep!

Bazzo

Absolute mind****, does that make him like a triple agent or something?

mun1

Burkie1203 wrote: »

You do realise the IRFU plough a LOT of money into Munster every year like all provinces. Maybe Leinster just make better decisions?

Ok, then maybe the IRFU should put the people in place at munster who would make the same decisions .
I’m open to that as are all munster fans on this thread.
They do own and control both teams after all.

Burkie1203

mun1 wrote: »

Ok, if you say so .
Why so angry, your team deservedly won yesterday, are you not happy ?
A lot of leinsterboys very angry on here today. Why ?
It’s only a game after all

How much are the IRFU still owed by Munster for the Thomond Park redevelopment?

The Lost Sheep

kingofthekong wrote: »

Munster have a talent development issue and so do Ulster , the quality of player coming out of the academies isn't good enough to compete at the top level and win silverware, how they change this I'm not sure , Ulster keep producing talented you backs - but haven't produced a decent forward since Henderson, Munster had a nice prospect in Bill Johnston but decided to bring in Carbery instead, Forwards wise Munster have also struggled in recent years with JOD probably being the best but even he isn't near the level of some of the Leinster products,

Munster have a development issue but its quite different from Ulsters. Bill Johnson had injury issues and then there was Bleyendaal as well so bringing in a Carbery was a no brainer and JOD has had to adjust considerably as with POM and Stander in place for trying to play in the bigger games he's been asked to try play 7 and that isnt his position. He was rated at 20s as extremely good but at pro level expected to play out of position considering other backrowers in the province.

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Munsters big issue for next season now is the RWC.

Potentially 8 players will travel from this group
POM Stander Murray Carbery Farrell Earls Beirne Kilcoyne Scannell Conway Ryan

New coaches and a core group of first XV won't be around for pre season etc. These players feed back in a few weeks before the European games begin. Can see the word transition being used a lot by comms next season

Would think world cup is a good thing if it can help settle without these guys.

Erik Shun wrote: »

I don't think the word transition will be used tbf, we have younger players like Goggin, Nash, Sweetnam, Wycherley, JOD, Arnold, wootton, Scott etc who will want to step up for a few months and show their worth.
Also rumours of a signing or 2 in the pipeline, so if we get the right coaching ticket in place (not too worried about defence.. attack is the issue) we could hit the ground running

It wont or at least shouldnt be used. All the guys you mention are now in their mid 20s so have to be stepping up big time

Former Former wrote: »

Munster will do very well during the RWC. They have an army of guys who can perform at Pro14 level.

They don't have enough players who can perform at the next level up. That's the problem.

Yeah. Consistently able to make semi finals its that next step that they cant get near making all too often

mun1 wrote: »

Ok, if you say so.
Why so angry, your team deservedly won yesterday, are you not happy?
A lot of leinsterboys very angry on here today. Why?
It’s only a game after all

Haha thats 3 provinces now ive been told im from. All need is Ulster to complete the set

mun1

Burkie1203 wrote: »

How much are the IRFU still owed by Munster for the Thomond Park redevelopment?

I couldnt begin to guess.
But as far as i know don’t munster branch own Thomond Park, and munster branch are part of the the IRFU, so ???
It’s like asking How much do the IRFU give Leinster to pay for RDS ?

troyzer

mun1 wrote: »

Burkie1203 wrote: »

How much are the IRFU still owed by Munster for the Thomond Park redevelopment?

I couldnt begin to guess.
But as far as i know don’t munster branch own Thomond Park, and munster branch are part of the the IRFU, so ???
It’s like asking How much do the IRFU give Leinster to pay for RDS ?

Except that Leinster don't own the RDS don't get any ancillary revenue. Munster does.

Burkie1203

mun1 wrote: »

I couldnt begin to guess.
But as far as i know don’t munster branch own Thomond Park, and munster branch are part of the the IRFU, so ???
It’s like asking How much do the IRFU give Leinster to pay for RDS ?

IRFU are owed €9m by Munster for Thomond.

You are going on like Munster get no help at all from IRFU

Former Former

errlloyd wrote: »

That's a fairly selective group of Munster imports isn't it? Since Cronin joined Leinster, CJ Stander, Conway, Haley, Carbery, Taute, Saili, Beirne, Bootha, Cloete, Kleyn, Chisolm, Van Der Heaven, Alby Mathewson, Rhys Marshall, Chris Farrell, Sammy Arnold and Tyler Bleyendaal at least have all been signed by Munster and go on to play European rugby.

Now thats 2 All Black capped players, 3 Springboks, one who has gone on to be a test Lion, several have go on to be test Ireland players. You can complain all you like about the quality of your signings, but Farrell, Conway, Beirne, Marshall, and Carbery are all players we'd take (back) off you if we could now.

Signings are not the problem

I can only count two Springboks, but do Taute, Botha, Mathewson and Saili combined even make it to double figures of caps?? They're internationals in the literal sense only.

Mark Chisholm could have been a good signing for a year but not to be. Otherwise pretty bog standard imports (CJ aside).

Edit; BJ Botha was a great signing.

mun1

Burkie1203 wrote: »

IRFU are owed €9m by Munster for Thomond.

You are going on like Munster get no help at all from IRFU

€9m sure is a lot of money.
Of course the IRFU have helped out munster, no province is 100% self sustainable .
Although i think its the IRFU who take all TV money, prize money etc. and give each province an amount it thinks they need each year.

Thanks for agreeing with my point regarding the IRFU helping out the provinces, Leinster included. (Which is 100% the right thing to do BTW).

Now back to the rugby.
Good win by Leinster yesterday. What coaches would you bring into munster if you could .
Obviously Lancaster has been allocated to Leinster already but it would be great if he came south.

Burkie1203

mun1 wrote: »

Don’t forget Leinster were in dire straits a few years back before the IRFU foisted Graham Henry and Lancaster on Leinster. Hopefully they can spend the same money on munster

mun1 wrote: »

€9m sure is a lot of money.
Of course the IRFU have helped out munster, no province is 100% self sustainable .
Although i think its the IRFU who take all TV money, prize money etc. and give each province an amount it thinks they need each year.

Thanks for agreeing with my point regarding the IRFU helping out the provinces, Leinster included. (Which is 100% the right thing to do BTW).

So in the last hour you have gone from the IRFU should spend the same on Munster as they do on Leinster to you claiming they give each province what they need and then you claim I agreed with you

Your some spoofer

Shefwedfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

I would disagree on Jones. What value is he adding?

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Its not like Van Graan walked in one day and said right lads you can go when you want.

They were offered contracts but declined to continue their stay with Munster. That's the fact. Gutted to see Flannery go. Jones was backs / attack coach for over 2 years and Munster have steadily gotten worse in that area IMO. New thinking / vision needed from new coaches. If it was just Jones going I'd be much happier about the whole business.

Not much loyalty in Munster anymore is there?

Jones and Fla have got Munster to Euro semi finals how many years now? if anything keeping the 2 guys and hiring another coach would have made sense.

The fact both are leaving shows poor management by Van Grann and the board, I would not blame Fla or Jones.

The Lost Sheep

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not much loyalty in Munster anymore is there?

Jones and Fla have got Munster to Euro semi finals how many years now? if anything keeping the 2 guys and hiring another coach would have made sense.

The fact both are leaving shows poor management by Van Grann and the board, I would not blame Fla or Jones.

Go away with lack of loyalty....
Its clear that Munster's back play just isnt good enough. Hiring new coach as what though? Skills coach would be great but thats long term not short term which is needed.
Both leaving isnt necessarily poor management by Van Graan and GF etc.

Shefwedfan

mun1 wrote: »

Don’t forget Leinster were in dire straits a few years back before the IRFU foisted Graham Henry and Lancaster on Leinster. Hopefully they can spend the same money on munster

Lancaster was on the scrap heap so to speak. Nobody wanted to touch him. He had gone to NZ and got in with some clubs to get away from it all and also improve his coaching

Kurt McQuillan had to return to home due to personal reasons and Cullen went to Lancaster and convinced him to join. Including getting Sexton to contact him direct and ask him to come. It had nothing to do with IRFU

If you remember the press at that time said it was crazy.

Same with Henry, Cullen asked for him to come in as a short time consultant for preseason. Again nothing to do with IRFU.

It is worth nothing that both Fla and Jones went to Oz or NZ last year and worked with Super 15 teams on time off to get some new ideas....again, this was nothing to do with the IRFU

Buer

Is there anything to be said for Bernard Jackman as replacement for Flannery? Replace one test hooker who is a forwards coach with another albeit more experienced one.

Shefwedfan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Go away with lack of loyalty....
Its clear that Munster's back play just isnt good enough. Hiring new coach as what though? Skills coach would be great but thats long term not short term which is needed.
Both leaving isnt necessarily poor management by Van Graan and GF etc.

As above Fla and Jones had gone on off season to SH last year to skill up. Who is to say they couldn't do the same this year.



A senior coach over Jones would help provide huge guidance. That was the original plan with Rassie, Rassie was Director, Foley was top coach and then he had team around him.


Now you have Van Grann and the 2 lads. Why not move Van Grann up to Director which he was hired for and bring in experience head coach to sit above the 2 guys? give it 2 season?


From what happened it would suggest that Munster didnt want either of them.

mun1

Burkie1203 wrote: »

So in the last hour you have gone from the IRFU should spend the same on Munster as they do on Leinster to you claiming they give each province what they need and then you claim I agreed with you

Your some spoofer

Have they spent more on one province at a point where they needed the help ?
Of course they have, its in the IRFU interests to have all the province blazing away.
Stop getting so annoyed .

Getting this munster thread back on track and Going back to my last question, who would you bring in as a munster coach if you could pick someone.

I think someone like Lancaster should be allocated by the IRFU as its their province to manage. He obviously a top coach and gets the best out of what he has.
Dean Richards would be my preference

mun1

Buer wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for Bernard Jackman as replacement for Flannery? Replace one test hooker who is a forwards coach with another albeit more experienced one.

Wouldn’t mind him myself but Think he was considered but wasn’t interviewed. Dirtied his bib with the dragons

Interested Observer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not much loyalty in Munster anymore is there?

Jones and Fla have got Munster to Euro semi finals how many years now? if anything keeping the 2 guys and hiring another coach would have made sense.

The fact both are leaving shows poor management by Van Grann and the board, I would not blame Fla or Jones.

It's a results business. They have hit a ceiling and their attack and skills are clearly lacking. Why you keep Jones I don't know.

Interested Observer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

So in the last hour you have gone from the IRFU should spend the same on Munster as they do on Leinster to you claiming they give each province what they need and then you claim I agreed with you

Your some spoofer

The IRFU have also foisted coaches on Leinster because Leinster hired them, but since Leinster are in fact part of the IRFU it counts as IRFU intervention. Makes loads of sense.

Shefwedfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

It's a results business. They have hit a ceiling and their attack and skills are clearly lacking. Why you keep Jones I don't know.

Well clearly Fla hasn't. He has build one of the best defences in Europe. Or am I incorrect?

Jones is doing it 3 years, only 2 mind you as attack, his results so far are 3 European semis, 2 Pro14 semis and a Pro 12 Final...

He has had 2 head coach's in that time?

Im not sure the finger should be pointed at Jones/Fla.....