Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

Cookiemunster

I can't see any of the SA sides being involved until next season. Covid is still rampant in SA and it's only getting worse again across Europe.

Also going to 4 conferences of 4 mid season would basically mean that were currently playing dead rubbers. So that's not going to happen.

Jump_In_Jack

If 6 South African teams join we could split it to 3 conferences of 6,
So Ireland and Italy could make a conference, Wales and Scotland could make a conference, and South Africa could make a conference.
I would like that format.
Each team could play 10 inter-conference matches, and 12 intra-conference matches.
There would be an opportunity to tour South Africa twice, three matches at a time.
The question would be how many playoff matches would there be, and maybe it could be top 4 into quarters,
And next 8 play off to get into the quarters.
So four rounds of playoffs.
It would be a very long season, but that could be great for the commercial value of the league.
Pro18 would be a big change but I’d be all for it as a spectator.

Caranica

But both the Pro whatever it is and South African rugby have said 4 South African teams are joining? Kings are all but gone now and Cheetahs are somewhere in the middle

The Lost Sheep

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

If 6 South African teams join we could split it to 3 conferences of 6,
So Ireland and Italy could make a conference, Wales and Scotland could make a conference, and South Africa could make a conference.
I would like that format.
Each team could play 10 inter-conference matches, and 12 intra-conference matches.
There would be an opportunity to tour South Africa twice, three matches at a time.
The question would be how many playoff matches would there be, and maybe it could be top 4 into quarters,
And next 8 play off to get into the quarters.
So four rounds of playoffs.
It would be a very long season, but that could be great for the commercial value of the league.
Pro18 would be a big change but I’d be all for it as a spectator.

Do we need the extra games though? Going back to 22 rounds before playoffs? How would you deal with playoffs with 3 conferences...

Maybe good for tv spectators but not much more beyond that.

Jump_In_Jack

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Do we need the extra games though? Going back to 22 rounds before playoffs? How would you deal with playoffs with 3 conferences...

Maybe good for tv spectators but not much more beyond that.

Playoffs are based on the points table.
It was what they tried to do with Siper Rugby but it failed because of the different time zones, maybe it would work in Europe and South Africa as time zones aren’t an issue.

The Lost Sheep

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Playoffs are based on the points table.
It was what they tried to do with Siper Rugby but it failed because of the different time zones, maybe it would work in Europe and South Africa as time zones aren’t an issue.

Its not needed. The extra games arent needed. We would just see weakened sides for many of them and the format with 3 sections is just far too cumbersome. Its already not great when you have some sides playing home and away only to some sides and only playing others home or away.

thomond2006

Less is more. If the season can be 21 games max (18 regular season and 3 playoff weeks) that sounds ideal.

FrannoFan

Brief_Lives wrote: »

That can´t be true.... where did you read that? (not knocking you by the way)

that has to be one of the worst league designs, it's what they tried in super rugby, ruined that too.

Jackman and Kinsella on the42 discussing it. Play your own conference home and away and then each other team once (split between home and away games)

less games overall so should be more frontliners available. my initial feeling is you hurt SA and Irish teams disproportionately. Welsh ridiculously favored by it.

Could be a one off in a covid disrupted season (games can get played without crossing as many borders)
Sure set to be a mess of a tournament with SA sides joining after christmas....maybe.... with the big Covid issue around travel.

declanflynn

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

If 6 South African teams join we could split it to 3 conferences of 6,
So Ireland and Italy could make a conference, Wales and Scotland could make a conference, and South Africa could make a conference.
I would like that format.
Each team could play 10 inter-conference matches, and 12 intra-conference matches.
There would be an opportunity to tour South Africa twice, three matches at a time.
The question would be how many playoff matches would there be, and maybe it could be top 4 into quarters,
And next 8 play off to get into the quarters.
So four rounds of playoffs.
It would be a very long season, but that could be great for the commercial value of the league.
Pro18 would be a big change but I’d be all for it as a spectator.

How about 2 divisions, 9 teams in both, play each team home and away so 16 regular season games, promotion from div 2 to div 1(and relegation), so could be leinster, Munster, Ulster, Glasgow, 1 Welsh team and 4 SA teams, would be a very competitive division. Division 2 would also be very competitive.

sydthebeat

declanflynn wrote: »

How about 2 divisions, 9 teams in both, play each team home and away so 16 regular season games, promotion from div 2 to div 1(and relegation), so could be leinster, Munster, Ulster, Glasgow, 1 Welsh team and 4 SA teams, would be a very competitive division. Division 2 would also be very competitive.

The Welsh would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever agree to that

Jump_In_Jack

thomond2006 wrote: »

Less is more. If the season can be 21 games max (18 regular season and 3 playoff weeks) that sounds ideal.

Do you mean it’s ideal because the IRFU can manage players better and pay less for fewer matches?

As a spectator I would prefer more matches, and I’d assume the Pro14 organisers would too as they could charge more for TV coverage.

English league is 22 regular rounds + 2 playoff rounds.
Top 14 is 26 + 3 playoff rounds.

Maybe a Pro18 with 20 + 3 would be a better compromise.

Could have 4 conferences,
6 teams in SA,
4 teams in the others,
Play every team once for 17 rounds and add 3 inter conference rounds for 20.
So the 6 teams on SA would play only 3 of the other 5 teams a second time.
Then 3 rounds of playoffs as usual.

The SA teams could have the option to play the other 2 rounds if they wished for their own fans, but wouldn’t count for the league.

The Lost Sheep

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Do you mean it’s ideal because the IRFU can manage players better and pay less for fewer matches?

As a spectator I would prefer more matches, and I’d assume the Pro14 organisers would too as they could charge more for TV coverage.

English league is 22 regular rounds + 2 playoff rounds.
Top 14 is 26 + 3 playoff rounds.

Maybe a Pro18 with 20 + 3 would be a better compromise.

Could have 4 conferences,
6 teams in SA,
4 teams in the others,
Play every team once for 17 rounds and add 3 inter conference rounds for 20.
So the 6 teams on SA would play only 3 of the other 5 teams a second time.
Then 3 rounds of playoffs as usual.

The SA teams could have the option to play the other 2 rounds if they wished for their own fans, but wouldn’t count for the league.

Because interest isnt there. The league is completely cross border so less is more in terms of total games. You are comparing longstanding single nation competitions compared to multi nation competition thats on the go less than 20 years.

thomond2006

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Do you mean it’s ideal because the IRFU can manage players better and pay less for fewer matches?

As a spectator I would prefer more matches, and I’d assume the Pro14 organisers would too as they could charge more for TV coverage.

English league is 22 regular rounds + 2 playoff rounds.
Top 14 is 26 + 3 playoff rounds.

Maybe a Pro18 with 20 + 3 would be a better compromise.

Could have 4 conferences,
6 teams in SA,
4 teams in the others,
Play every team once for 17 rounds and add 3 inter conference rounds for 20.
So the 6 teams on SA would play only 3 of the other 5 teams a second time.
Then 3 rounds of playoffs as usual.

The SA teams could have the option to play the other 2 rounds if they wished for their own fans, but wouldn’t count for the league.

The Premiership and the Top14 can get away with games during international windows because of the spread of internationals amongst their clubs.

As a spectator I'd prefer less games with stronger lineups. I can enjoy the youngsters getting opportunities with internationals away but you're not going to get mainstream support that way.

yerrahbah

Squad update

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/10/21/squad-update-preparations-begin-for-monday-night-rugby/

No new injuries and all players that were close contacts with the recent Covid case will return to training this week or this weekend

thomond2006

yerrahbah wrote: »

Squad update

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/10/21/squad-update-preparations-begin-for-monday-night-rugby/

No new injuries and all players that were close contacts with the recent Covid case will return to training this week or this weekend

It's difficult to know if those four players who are set to return from self-isolation can feature. This is a big game in the conference so the strongest possible side is likely to be named. Then comes a six day turnaround for a trip to Dragons where I'd expect some rotation.

Cronin, Marshall, Archer, Kleyn, Wycherley, JOD, Cloete, JOS;
Casey, JJ, Gallagher, DDA, Goggin, Sweetnam, Haley

KOB, Loughman, Knox, Holland, Coombes, McCarthy, Healy, Coombes

Ireland: Ryan, Beirne, POM, Stander, Murray, Farrell, Daly, Conway
Injured: Scannell, Kilcoyne, LOC, Snyman, Cronin, Carbery, Earls

Tomtom364

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's difficult to know if those four players who are set to return from self-isolation can feature. This is a big game in the conference so the strongest possible side is likely to be named. Then comes a six day turnaround for a trip to Dragons where I'd expect some rotation.

Cronin, Marshall, Archer, Kleyn, Wycherley, JOD, Cloete, JOS;
Casey, JJ, Gallagher, DDA, Goggin, Sweetnam, Haley

KOB, Loughman, Knox, Holland, Coombes, McCarthy, Healy, Coombes

Ireland: Ryan, Beirne, POM, Stander, JOD, Murray, Farrell, Daly, Conway
Injured: Scannell, Kilcoyne, LOC, Snyman, Cronin, Carbery, Earls

Cronin, Marshall, Salonoa(or Knox), Kleyn, Wycherley, coombes, hodnet, JOD;
Casey, Healy, Gallagher, DDA, Goggin, Nash, Haley

KOB, Loughman, Archer, Holland, JOS, McCarthy, JJ, Coombes

shootermacg

Is Hodnett not available?

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's difficult to know if those four players who are set to return from self-isolation can feature. This is a big game in the conference so the strongest possible side is likely to be named. Then comes a six day turnaround for a trip to Dragons where I'd expect some rotation.

Cronin, Marshall, Archer, Kleyn, Wycherley, JOD, Cloete, JOS;
Casey, JJ, Gallagher, DDA, Goggin, Sweetnam, Haley

KOB, Loughman, Knox, Holland, Coombes, McCarthy, Healy, Coombes

Ireland: Ryan, Beirne, POM, Stander, Murray, Farrell, Daly, Conway
Injured: Scannell, Kilcoyne, LOC, Snyman, Cronin, Carbery, Earls

Daly will be available apparently. Slot him in at 15 as he needs the match fitness.

thomond2006

shootermacg wrote: »

Is Hodnett not available?

He's pictured at training today.

Jump_In_Jack

Is Jack Daly likely to get any game time this season?
Year 3 academy back row, has a build of an open side, would have expected him to feature as much as Hodnett this season seeing as Hodnett is Year 2 academy.
Munster badly need a true open side flanker or two as replacement for Cloete (not been good enough for a while) and O'Donnell (getting a bit older) and Oliver has moved on to Connacht.

yerrahbah

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Is Jack Daly likely to get any game time this season?
Year 3 academy back row, has a build of an open side, would have expected him to feature as much as Hodnett this season seeing as Hodnett is Year 2 academy.
Munster badly need a true open side flanker or two as replacement for Cloete (not been good enough for a while) and O'Donnell (getting a bit older) and Oliver has moved on to Connacht.

With Beirne, Stander and POM away for the next few weeks it opens up places in the backrow

Currently we have

Cloete
Coombes (still unsure if his future is seen in the 2nd row or in the back row)
TOD
JOD
JOS
Hodnett
Daly
Kendellen

Home games against Ospreys and Zebre in November, Daly might get a run then

kingofthekong

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Is Jack Daly likely to get any game time this season?
Year 3 academy back row, has a build of an open side, would have expected him to feature as much as Hodnett this season seeing as Hodnett is Year 2 academy.
Munster badly need a true open side flanker or two as replacement for Cloete (not been good enough for a while) and O'Donnell (getting a bit older) and Oliver has moved on to Connacht.

Hodnett is a vastly superior player to Daly

thomond2006

Leinster sub-academy scrum-half Ben Murphy is joining Munster for the next two months, per the 42. A necessary move to bring someone in once Cronin was ruled out for the season. An injury at Ireland could mean Craig Casey gets recalled and Munster will be down to Nick McCarthy and nobody.

Plus there's always Covid-19 that can rule out a player out of nowhere.

https://www.the42.ie/ben-murphy-leinster-munster-5242551-Oct2020/

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leinster sub-academy scrum-half Ben Murphy is joining Munster for the next two months, per the 42. A necessary move to bring someone in once Cronin was ruled out for the season. An injury at Ireland could mean Craig Casey gets recalled and Munster will be down to Nick McCarthy and nobody.

Plus there's always Covid-19 that can rule out a player out of nowhere.

https://www.the42.ie/ben-murphy-leinster-munster-5242551-Oct2020/

I can see why we brought in cover but surely an injury in Ireland camp will see Cooney getting a call up before Casey

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

I can see why we brought in cover but surely an injury in Ireland camp will see Cooney getting a call up before Casey

Most likely, true.

Buer

phog wrote: »

I can see why we brought in cover but surely an injury in Ireland camp will see Cooney getting a call up before Casey

You wouldn't know. Cooney is 31 this season. I'd say Casey has a very solid chance of getting capped in November against Georgia. The likes of Cooney (or Murray) getting a run instead of Casey in that fixture would be a waste. I'd rather see JGP/Marmion and Casey involved to integrate them into the team and build.

Caranica

phog wrote: »

I can see why we brought in cover but surely an injury in Ireland camp will see Cooney getting a call up before Casey

Casey is in form, Cooney is not?

The Lost Sheep

From the programme for tonights pro14 game. Schools Senior Cup trophy to be named after Garrett Fitzgerald.
Nice to see especially considering his work with schools rugby and coaching CBC to 5 wins.

ScrubsfanChris

Was that offload not forward?

phog

phog wrote: »

I can see why we brought in cover but surely an injury in Ireland camp will see Cooney getting a call up before Casey

As I thought would happen. Cooney called up to Irish squad for the trip to Paris as there's an injury concern for JGP