Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122664197#Comment_122664197

DOC made the point after the game that, while there were some green players out there, it was the more experienced ones who really let the side down, he was particularly scathing of Loughman and Jager, and Coombes will be dreading the video review of a couple of those tries.

Look, it's the second game of the season, things are always a bit unpredictable and sloppy at this stage, there's no need to panic (yet). Rowntree's post-match reaction would tell you there is going to be some serious fall-out this week so I would expect a big turnaround against Ospreys, especially if Crowley and Beirne are back.

ersatz

Terrible performance from Munster stalwarts though I really enjoyed Murrays cameo at ten. I’d really hope to see a massive reaction next week or this bodes very badly for the season. Nobody to blame but the players, they absolutely turned off for half an hour in the second half.

phog

That must go down as one of our worst performances ever, TBP wrapped up by halftime and then we go and lose the game without even getting a LBP. Beaten all over the park, poor defensive positioning, not resourcing rucks properly, kicking out in the full, intercept passes thrown, just so many basic errors and it cost us, cost us dearly.

I like that we're cutting through teams at times and we've had some great scores this season but we've conceded some shockers too.The free kick from scrum penalties seems to favour Casey, he's making some fantastic breaks and with someone on his shoulder it's costing the opposition but that no good if we can't defend.

I hope there's a proper reaction to this defeat next week v Ospreys who they themselves had a good win yesterday.

thePigeon_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122663867#Comment_122663867

Ben Healy 😂😂

God I enjoyed that. Healy’s not even close to first choice for Edinburgh. Comical reaction to blowing a 13 point lead against a team with 2 wins in 3 years.

Rugbyf565

looking back it all went wrong after Haley’s pass was intercepted by Trulla for the try. Haley should be dropped for next week.

Podge_irl

In a league comp I think you can pretty much allow one inexplicably terrible performance so I wouldnt be at panic stations just yet. But there is a lot to correct before next weekend.

aloooof

Haven't seen the game yet but that's a shocker of a result. 24 points unanswered? They obviously switched off entirely after HT, thinking it was in the bag.

Leamy's gonna take someone's had off this week. Need to see a reaction next week.

BoardsMember

How much does a performance like that harm Coombes getting closer to an Ireland squad? Or does it impact people's conviction that he's been robbed or badly treated in not being given a fair shot to date.

phog

Personally, while watching the game live I thought Coombes had a good game, his stats (even discounting his two tries) would back that up.

The shocking result doesn't help him or any of the 23 but he certainly was not the reason we lost that game

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122665129#Comment_122665129

I'm wondering if we've changed something this year, we were the best defensive team last season but we've conceded 75 points in two games and our D was a concern for me during the two preseason games too. Have we tried to change something to suit our attack, the players that we have now or trying something somewhere else that players are falling between two stools leaving gaps for the opposition to be exploit.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122665308#Comment_122665308

It’s an interesting question. Can only speak for the Connacht game (and Bath pre-season game) but, from an attack perspective we seem to be attacking from much, much deeper? And subsequently when we turnover ball were under more pressure straight away. Thats what it look like to me anyways, fwiw.

Last week some of it was new personnel. Tom Farrell bit in, and Tony Butler had 2 missed tackles, so you’d imagine that’s one area that’ll naturally improve with more time.

I think losing Frisch might be part of it tho. He was honestly so good at scramble d for us.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122665337#Comment_122665337

I had a similar view too but yesterday we looked out of position, drifting away from rucks that we hadn't won, then add in JOD no pressure forward pass, after we won a turnover, Haley's forward pass that was intercepted and the pillars going missing allowing two tries to be scored just makes me think there's some change that the lads haven't mastered yet.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122665359#Comment_122665359

Could well be the case. You’d back Leams to solve it. Thinking back to first season, we had 3 weeks where we conceded 42, 38 and 50 in a row, and went onto have the best defence last season.

Need a big reaction tho.

Pepp1989

Well any defensive system you have can't cater for props leaving their pillar at ruck time. It's such an amateur mistake. To see it twice in one game was scarcely believable from a professional outfit.

goingmadted

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122664947#Comment_122664947

Hilarious post it was. Its the truth according to him. mad stuff

letowski

Aside from some of the obvious individual defensive errors Munster need to clean up, I think Leamy has still a good bit of work to do to get this defense working.

Granted we don't play a rush/blitz defense, our linespeed is really slow. Also with Tom Farrell defending at 13, because he probably isn't the quickest 13 on the turn, he sets a very soft edge at outside centre. It's problematic because its allowing teams to access the wider channels easily and make meters handy, not to mention its hard to defend at this level in space out wide. Then with Beirne and POM out, we've no jacket threat either, allowing Connacht and Zebre to basically have their way with us with ball in hand.

I think the coaching staff have a good bit of work in getting this defense sorted, with Leinster, the SA tour and the European games coming up quickly. Cutting down on individual errors and getting the internationals back will help, but I'd still be concerned at the same time.

arsebiscuits1

I wonder has lawrences hangover subsided yet 🤔

Watched the game yesterday and I couldn't fathom how Munsters basics were so bad.

Lads just dropping the ball on first phase like. And this has happened in the Gloucester and Connacht games too.

Jager and Loughman getting beaten at pillar was beyond woeful. To quote Remember the Titans, they should be doing Up/Downs until the sky is no longer blue at training. Horrendous laziness from pro players.

Up sides. Ruadhán Quinn is a great player and physical and quick. Bringing his under 20s form. Hopefully he gets a boat load of minutes this season. Bryan Fitzgerald looks like a really tidy player too and a great advertisement for the AIL pathway. Congrats to him on his competitive debut and try

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668025#Comment_122668025

Quinn is a great player, but we are already over reliant on him this season and he not Klendennen should be in the emerging irish squad as we know alex isnt going to get a chance in the Irish squad proper

Its great that quinn is getting minutes but the lack of depth across the squad has gotten worse not better this season.

We are in massive trouble in midfield, down past the bare bones at 10 already and we are now in a big hole for back 3 players, while also still reliant on the same props.

If the likes of Beirne / Crowley get injured things could get very very embarrassing.

Without some personal making it off the treatment table onto the pitch and the mistakes getting eliminated we could be in for an utterly embarrassing hiding in croke park.

Two games in there is very little to be optimistic about, and while some might disagree that the decisions made at national level are having a detrimental effect on the club it clearly is.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668290#Comment_122668290

So what exactly is it you think should have happened at a “national level” so that some experienced Munster players don’t **** the bed against Zebre?

Force some Leinster players down there? Sign more expensive overseas players? What solution do you want exactly?

How much depth do you need in the back row?

And his name, fwiw, is Kendellen ffs. At least get that right.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668313#Comment_122668313

we had a winger playing 13. A player who has never played in that position before expected to lead the defence, we then had to replace him with a player from the AIL making his debut. We had no OH option on the bench to cover 10.

Casey an Irish international is already after playing 160 minutes of rugby, what a way to treat him this early in the season, where is the player welfare there?

Sure the errors and the performance are the problem in that loss, i never said otherwise the performance was dogshit.

But your pissing into the wind having a squad like that expecting to compete in the league not to mind in Europe.

So pick a backline for the ospreys game. Will it be something like this?

Casey - again for another 80 mins?
Murray - channeling his inner dupont and playing 80 mins at 10?
Abhrahams
Farrell - A player so good connacht let him go
Fitzgerald - an AIL player with a short term deal
Nash
Haley.

With one experienced player on the bench in shay mccarthy. You can have all the back 3 players you want but that halfback and midfield is pants.

All while other experienced players who are needed are off down to SA to play SA clubs in friendly games in an effort to give prendergast gametime.

Its a complete crock of ****, its disrespect-full to the league, we are quick enough to chastise SA teams sending second string side to the NH at times, how is this different?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668471#Comment_122668471

pick a backline for the Ospreys game

Murray, Crowley, Abrahams, Farrell, Nankivell/Daly, Nash, Haley.

Looks OK to me?

Farrell - A player so good connacht let him go

Jesus. What a perspective.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668471#Comment_122668471

Munster have 44 senior contracted players and another 18 Academy players.

10 on the injury report, and 8 gone on the EI tour (of whom 5 are Academy players). Munster also had 10 players playing AIL the previous weekend.

There’s more than enough depth there - you just don’t like or rate some of the options. Why did Casey need to play 160 mins? There was a senior contracted scrum half sitting on the bench for the Connacht game who wasn’t given a minute.

You had no out half on the bench because you opted not to select your Year 2 Academy out half. Crowley will most likely be back this coming weekend in any event.

The problems at centre are largely of Munster’s own making because they haven’t produced a single top international quality centre in the last 20 years.

The problem here isn’t that you don’t have enough players, you just don’t like the players you have.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668503#Comment_122668503

perspective?

We had to let a 28 year old international prospect player go because Ireland couldn't look beyond the 34yr old, 29yr old and 32yr old that were in the squad this year. It was a mistake letting him go.

We got a good player from connacht that is never going to be at international level, he just doesn't have the pace needed and that wont ever change.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668562#Comment_122668562

that is never going to be at international level, he just doesn't have the pace needed and that wont ever change

I think you could apply that to the guy who left just as much as the guy who arrived, tbh.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668562#Comment_122668562

Frisch asked to leave and to get out of his contract a year early. He’s French, he wanted to go home to France and play there, for a bucket of money from Toulon.

There was always a semi-mercenary quality to his comments, and the sense was he’d have played for anyone of Ireland, France or England who picked him first, so it’s not shocking when guys like that leave for the money. He didn’t get capped for Ireland because he wasn’t a better player than the guys who got capped ahead of him. It’s not some grand conspiracy, it’s just he didn’t do enough to earn it, that simple.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668471#Comment_122668471

I suppose the glass half full way of looking at it would be that if Munster lose to the Ospreys, and Sean O'Brien being away with EI is a contributing factor, at least qualification for the URC play-offs isn't that challenging and from mid October on Fitzgerald will be an improved option from getting experience he wouldn't have otherwise had and O'Brien will be back available but with an extra pep in his step from thinking he's now on the Ireland radar.

But, yeah. Munster certainly don't have Leinster's depth at outhalf or Connacht's depth at 12.

Number 137

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122663867#Comment_122663867

This post is absolute nonsense. Ultimately, Leinster produce the majority of their own players. They then sign players to add to their squad in the same way Munster signed Snyman and de Allende. Regardless of how successful either signing was, they were massive signings at the time. There is also the possibility that Leinster is a more attractive proposition for foreign players to sign for. Competing at the business end of competitions nearly every season, highly renowned coaching group, etc. Players would much rather play for a team who regularly qualify for finals, even if they've been losing them more recently, than a team who has won one trophy in the last 13 years and generally hasn't been competing at the same level.

All provinces have been affected in some way by the EI tour. I would argue that Connacht are far more affected than Munster. The simple reality Munster's defeat to Zebre yesterday is entirely their own fault. Munster are a quality outfit who I expect to challenge on both fronts this, presuming key players stay fit. Sometimes you have a bad day at the office. That's sport.

Podge_irl

You will struggle to find someone who dislikes the idea of the EI tour more than me, but your framing of it is utterly ridiculous. It is not to "give Prendergast gametime" and Munster have been the least hit of anyone this time round so using it as an excuse for poor performances in comparison to the other provinces is a joke.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668583#Comment_122668583

Will u stop with the facts. Unbecoming and unnecessary.

Dubinusa

Depth at 12 is brilliant at Connacht. Munster should take a swing to entice one of Daniel Hawkshaw or John Devine down to Limerick.