Laws in relation to dogs on a leash in parks

stiofan85

Hi folks,

Just had a scary encounter with some greyhounds in my local park running straight at my two year old. They got within a meter of him before my shouting deterred them, although they continued to jump at us. In hindsight I think it was probably more play than an attack, but I couldn't have known that at the time, and would never be quite sure if I don't know the dogs. The owners couldn't have cared less - they were about 100m away and there were 3 dogs, running totally out of control. If it was at me on my own I'd be less concerned, but a two year old wouldn't stand a chance if something did go wrong.

I've never had a problem with dogs and we always take my son up to pet dogs and owners are usually very open and would say "they're very good with kids" etc... and I'm not afraid dogs. Would love one if we didn't both work full time.

So what's te story with dogs on a leash in a park? I couldn't see a sign but have seen equivalent signs in other parks. Most people's dogs there who are not on a leash are usually really well behaved and it's all good - I'm more concerned about bigger, stronger dogs going straight at a toddler. Should I report it?

Thanks

You’ll find information here. http://www.ikc.ie/dog-ownership/choosing-the-right-dog/legal-requirements/

stefanovich

You can but the truth is nothing would probably come of it. The dog was obviously not on the attack. The owner should be more responsible but sometimes even well behaved dogs are disobedient at times.

Did you see the owner? Probably the most effective thing you could have done was to tell them there and then that you were scared and to be more careful.

You need to be conscious of the fact that there is always the possibility of a stray dog or a dangerous dog off their lead with irresponsible owners and take suitable precautions with your child.

mattser

stefanovich wrote: »

You can but the truth is nothing would probably come of it. The dog was obviously not on the attack. The owner should be more responsible but sometimes even well behaved dogs are disobedient at times.

Did you see the owner? Probably the most effective thing you could have done was to tell them there and then that you were scared and to be more careful.

You need to be conscious of the fact that there is always the possibility of a stray dog or a dangerous dog off their lead with irresponsible owners and take suitable precautions with your child.

On days like the last couple, I've seen many parents out with their children in buggies.
Buggy hoods open, allowing as much fresh air as possible.
Lighter layering of clothing than usual for a February.
Or just children in hand.
Out of interest, what ' suitable precautions ' would you suggest ?

stefanovich

mattser wrote: »

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On days like the last couple, I've seen many parents out with their children in buggies.
Buggy hoods open, allowing as much fresh air as possible.
Lighter layering of clothing than usual for a February.
Or just children in hand.
Out of interest, what ' suitable precautions ' would you suggest ?

I'm just saying to be realistic. If you go into a park scan for potential dangerous dogs before leaving junior on the ground with sausage in hand.

mattser

stefanovich wrote: »

I'm just saying to be realistic. If you go into a park scan for potential dangerous dogs before leaving junior on the ground with sausage in hand.

Of course. But even with the best of precautions, one can walk through a gap into another part of the park, and be caught on the hop.
It really is down to ignorant, irresponsible dog owners.

stefanovich

mattser wrote: »

Of course. But even with the best of precautions, one can walk through a gap into another part of the park, and be caught on the hop.
It really is down to ignorant, irresponsible dog owners.

Agree but either we wipe them all out or we learn how to reduce risk.

stiofan85

Thanks for replies. Owners were @rseholes and scoffed at me. My son was in his buggy, not out holding a sausage running around, not that it matters in a public park for humans not animals.

I suspected reporting would be pointless, but speaking to the owners was equally pointless.

Thanks

stiofan85

stiofan85 wrote: »

Thanks for replies. Owners were @rseholes and scoffed at me. My son was in his buggy, not out holding a sausage running around, not that it matters in a public park for humans not animals.

I suspected reporting would be pointless, but speaking to the owners was equally pointless.

Thanks

If you don’t report it, how will the authorities know that there’s a problem?

eviltwin

If people just kept their dogs on leashes it would make things safer for everyone. I can't understand people with excitable dogs who they know run up to strangers and other dogs letting them free. It's made my local park and daily dog walk a pain in the hole.

stiofan85

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you don’t report it, how will the authorities know that there’s a problem?

How can I identify them? And to who do I report? Gardai?

CarolineBee

Even if no signs to say a leash required dogs must be under control. These dogs clearly weren’t. Though reporting it wouldn’t seem right to me.
My own dog is required to be muzzled by some CoCo’s whenever he is in public due to (ignorant, stupid) breed legislation. ALL dogs can cause injury or worse to children, other dogs, adults, animals etc if not under control.
I have no issue with dogs being off leash (in fact jealous that I can’t do that with mine) but that freedom comes with responsibility to ensure dog is monitored and has good recall.
Recently had a large black GSD approach my dog at speed at local park, I shouted the owner to call her dog back as mine doesn’t mix well, she did and in fairness dog had good recall. As I thanked her she then said I shouldn’t have mine out if he can’t be trusted in public 😡 My dog was on double leash connected to two points on his harness and also wearing a yellow anxiety sleeve. Before I could respond her dog was off again at full speed to a small dog with a family with a young child. The little boy was screaming in panic and the small dog yelped. Again she called it back and shouted across ‘don’t worry she just wants to play’ 🀯.
I love dogs of all breeds, my own is a staffy/mastiff cross, and I suppose from my biased perspective of so many people judging his breed I’m really, really conscious of understanding the impact my dog has on others. Whatever breed don’t let your dog approach children or other dogs unless you’ve checked it’s ok. Also worth noting the other side that children should always be taught to ask the owner before petting a dog - some dogs are terrified of kids.

Dial Hard

stiofan85 wrote:

So what's te story with dogs on a leash in a park? I couldn't see a sign but have seen equivalent signs in other parks.

It depends on the bye-laws of the park in question. For the most part, local authorities require dogs to be kept on leads in parks but individual parks may have off-lead times of their own, for example Bushy Park allows dogs off the lead for the first hour after the park opens and the last hour before it closes. So if this happened at 9am this morning and you were in a park with such bye-laws, then the owners may well have been allowed have the dogs off the lead.

Having said that, the dogs should still have been under their effective control even if they were legally off the lead. Given nothing actually happened, whether they were or not is a debate for another thread.

stefanovich

stiofan85 wrote: »

Thanks for replies. Owners were @rseholes and scoffed at me. My son was in his buggy, not out holding a sausage running around, not that it matters in a public park for humans not animals.

I suspected reporting would be pointless, but speaking to the owners was equally pointless.

Thanks

Depressing that they had that reaction.

stiofan85

stiofan85 wrote: »

How can I identify them? And to who do I report? Gardai?

No need to identify individuals. Report loose dogs to the local authority responsible for the park. Do this every time you come across inconsiderate owners. cc to your county councilors. If they don’t know about the problem they cannot do anything to fix it.

punisher5112

If you have an issue why not speak to the dog owners and explain you were worried and the child was extremely frightened.

If it's a case of you or the child don't like dogs or just aren't comfortable sometimes certain parks are full of dogs.

I had 2 labs and would only let them off when nobody else was about as they hated other dogs so had to keep them on a leash.

We do walk the other halves two parents dogs and they love all the free running and one loves kids she will be very excited around them, she is only 7 months old and small.

I can understand some dogs can be large and scary.

volchitsa

stiofan85 wrote: »

Thanks for replies. Owners were @rseholes and scoffed at me. My son was in his buggy, not out holding a sausage running around, not that it matters in a public park for humans not animals.

I suspected reporting would be pointless, but speaking to the owners was equally pointless.

Thanks

If the child was in his buggy, how were the dogs running at him? Surely they were running at both of you, and he was actually more protected than you were?

I would worry about a toddler if my dog ran at one (I would always intervene before that can happen, but that's why I intervene) because small children tend to scream and run away, which triggers the dog to run after them, which in turn frightens the child more.

I wouldn't react in the same way if she went up to an adult pushing a stroller.

I'm not saying there wasn't a problem with the dogs being out of control, maybe there was - but I think you aren't presenting things in quite the way they happened, so I wonder if the reason the owners "scoffed" was because other observers may not have seen the same set of events that you describe?

stiofan85

stefanovich wrote: »

Depressing that they had that reaction.

Honestly, she laughed and said sarcastically "you're clearly afraid of dogs" as they kept circling the buggy. I'm not afraid of them, but that's not relevant - she thought I was and still didn't care. The dogs were not under control - they were about 100m away and didn't respond to her calling. As I said, loads of dogs off the leash in the park and never a problem. Have approached many of them for him to pet and have a little chat. Never a problem and always a quick "is he/she okay with kids" and equally I keep my boy under control... because I'm responsible and wouldn't want to impose my son's wish to pet a dog on a dog that doesn't want to be petted.

stefanovich

stiofan85 wrote: »

Honestly, she laughed and said sarcastically "you're clearly afraid of dogs" as they kept circling the buggy. I'm not afraid of them, but that's not relevant - she thought I was and still didn't care. The dogs were not under control - they were about 100m away and didn't respond to her calling. As I said, loads of dogs off the leash in the park and never a problem. Have approached many of them for him to pet and have a little chat. Never a problem and always a quick "is he/she okay with kids" and equally I keep my boy under control... because I'm responsible and wouldn't want to impose my son's wish to pet a dog on a dog that doesn't want to be petted.

Well. If you are responsible for the dog you are also responsible for making sure it doesn't frighten people, especially with young children. If I am ever out for a walk with my dog and I see a buggy or child in the distance I immediately put it on the leash.

stiofan85

volchitsa wrote: »

If the child was in his buggy, how were the dogs running at him? Surely they were running at both of you, and he was actually more protected than you were?

I would worry about a toddler if my dog ran at one (I would always intervene before that can happen, but that's why I intervene) because small children tend to scream and run away, which triggers the dog to run after them, which in turn frightens the child more.

I wouldn't react in the same way if she went up to an adult pushing a stroller.

I'm not saying there wasn't a problem with the dogs being out of control, maybe there was - but I think you aren't presenting things in quite the way they happened, so I wonder if the reason the owners "scoffed" was because other observers may not have seen the same set of events that you describe?

Greyhound running at speed, sees buggy, changes direction towards buggy. Dogs didn't respond to owner when called back. What's unclear?

I'm not concerned about me in relation to the dogs, it's the two year old between me and the dogs

stiofan85

stefanovich wrote: »

Well. If you are responsible for the dog you are also responsible for making sure it doesn't frighten people, especially with young children. If I am ever out for a walk with my dog and I see a buggy or child in the distance I immediately put it on the leash.

Yeah I see this a lot. All good. Again, it's not a big issue in the park usually.

This is the first time this has happened so was just wondering if there are laws about leashes. Seems there is but I've no way to report it I guess so that ends it.

Thanks for the replies

stiofan85

punisher5112 wrote: »

If you have an issue why not speak to the dog owners and explain you were worried and the child was extremely frightened.

If it's a case of you or the child don't like dogs or just aren't comfortable sometimes certain parks are full of dogs.

I had 2 labs and would only let them off when nobody else was about as they hated other dogs so had to keep them on a leash.

We do walk the other halves two parents dogs and they love all the free running and one loves kids she will be very excited around them, she is only 7 months old and small.

I can understand some dogs can be large and scary.

Spoke to owner, she scoffed. I'm not afraid of dogs and quite like them as does the toddler. It's not the issue at all.

There was a big Alsatian there this morning, no leash all good, said hello to the owner etc...dogs are always in the park and regularly say hello to the owners, pet them and so on. Equally, respect the bigger ones and don't approach, and the owners typically have them on the leash or not running around wildly.

I think this is like driving. Some people are less responsible than others unfortunately and I'll have to live with it.

Thanks

punisher5112

stiofan85 wrote: »

Spoke to owner, she scoffed. I'm not afraid of dogs and quite like them as does the toddler. It's not the issue at all.

There was a big Alsatian there this morning, no leash all good, said hello to the owner etc...dogs are always in the park and regularly say hello to the owners, pet them and so on. Equally, respect the bigger ones and don't approach, and the owners typically have them on the leash or not running around wildly.

I think this is like driving. Some people are less responsible than others unfortunately and I'll have to live with it.

Thanks

Apologies I didn't see you had answered that part previous.

Sad such an owner had that attitude.

Exactly as you say similar to driving their are a#s hats everywhere and unfortunately some of these are in charge or not in cases of their dogs.

I would recommend having a long umbrella or stick just in case. Not condoning hitting but sometimes just the bang on the ground will stop them.

stiofan85

punisher5112 wrote: »

I would recommend having a long umbrella or stick just in case. Not condoning hitting but sometimes just the bang on the ground will stop them.

This is my conclusion. Unfortunately.

Sure look, on the bright side I've realised this is the first time this has happened and the consensus seems to be owners are generally responsible. Life's too short for sweating these things. We'll continue to go for walks, pet dogs and say hello. Hopefully the stick will stay in the buggy

stefanovich

stiofan85 wrote: »

There was a big Alsatian there this morning, no leash all good, said hello to the owner etc...

Controlled breed. Shouldn't be off lead in public. Also should wear a muzzle.

Pkiernan

If all dogs wore muzzled in public there'd be no issues.

That should be the law, and it should be enforced by confiscation, large fine and potential euthanasia of the dog.

But as usual typical Irish scofflaws couldn't care less.

My elderly father was attacked by a St Bernard, a large, dangerous mastiff.
Luckily by kicking it repeatedly in was able to get it to release him. The owner hadn't got the strength to stop it.
Some onlookers actually complained to me about kicking the dog until i showed them the blood on my dad's arm.

With regard to the greyhounds in the OP, I'd have stabbed them if they want near my kids.

Mod note... User banned

Giveaway

Legally a dog must be under control. A small minority of owners are thick and selfish. Raising a walking cane and saying vets bills are expensive usually works. Had similar encounter when big dog went for my 2 year old in her buggy. Owner struggling to control big dog started telling me how harmless her dog is and arguing her point with angry barking dog gnashing at us. Even the dog got the message with the raised stick.
The really selfish owners also behave when the phone gets whipped out to record them.
A popular park nearby has had several dog atracks including a 2 year old badly bitten on the face. No prosecutions yet as invariably the dog owner legs it with the dog without providing any assistance to the injured. My own mother was injured too. Got a nasty infected bite

Giveaway

Dial Hard wrote: »

It depends on the bye-laws of the park in question. For the most part, local authorities require dogs to be kept on leads in parks but individual parks may have off-lead times of their own, for example Bushy Park allows dogs off the lead for the first hour after the park opens and the last hour before it closes. So if this happened at 9am this morning and you were in a park with such bye-laws, then the owners may well have been allowed have the dogs off the lead.

Having said that, the dogs should still have been under their effective control even if they were legally off the lead. Given nothing actually happened, whether they were or not is a debate for another thread.

It doesnt depend on the byelaws. Not on leash, by definition out of control if it causes harm

DBB

Mod note... As per the forum charter, Pkiernan has been permanently banned from the forum for advocating the (unlawful) killing of an animal.
Thanks
DBB

Pawwed Rig

volchitsa wrote: »

I'm not saying there wasn't a problem with the dogs being out of control, maybe there was - but I think you aren't presenting things in quite the way they happened, so I wonder if the reason the owners "scoffed" was because other observers may not have seen the same set of events that you describe?

I have had the same issue with dogs a number of times in my local park too and when it is discussed on our local park facebook group someone always says I am not telling the full truth
Not sure why uninvolved third parties get so offended by the notion that some dog owners can be dicks. As with all of these things the vast majority of the guys who let their dogs off the leash are responsible cool people with the more visible minority being the problem.
About 6 times in the last 2 years I have had to approach owners whose dogs were out of control. The one constant was the defensive attitude and the lack of an apology.

My little 3 year old used to love dogs but has now developed a real fear due to moronic owners.

volchitsa

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I have had the same issue with dogs a number of times in my local park too and when it is discussed on our local park facebook group someone always says I am not telling the full truth
Not sure why uninvolved third parties get so offended by the notion that some dog owners can be dicks. As with all of these things the vast majority of the guys who let their dogs off the leash are responsible cool people with the more visible minority being the problem.
About 6 times in the last 2 years I have had to approach owners whose dogs were out of control. The one constant was the defensive attitude and the lack of an apology.

My little 3 year old used to love dogs but has now developed a real fear due to moronic owners.

No I'm not offended by it, and of course I know that not all owners are responsible (I've had a couple of run-ins with such owners myself) but I've seen so many OPs similar to this one started on here by people who rapidly turned out to have an agenda that I tend to be suspicious of a certain type of OP and thread.

Maybe that's unfair, and some of what the poster said does sound fair enough, so I'm not accusing them of doing this. Just explaining why I posted as I did.
Probably as pointless as the post themselves says making a complaint would be, though so I'll leave it at that.

(Really sorry that your child has developed a fear of dogs especially if it's due to careless owners. Where I live I think that would be almost impossible as it just wouldn't be tolerated, but I know Ireland can still be quite lawless in many ways.)