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Toyota "self-charging" hybrids

  • 15-02-2019 9:16pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭ n97 mini


    And the backlash has started. Spotted on social media...

    473276.jpg


«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    180907100732-elon-musk-smokes-marijuana-podcast-1-large-169.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    That will just confuse the normal driver even more


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,227 ✭✭✭ The J Stands for Jay


    Charging with flammable liquid instead of electrons is not self charging.


  • Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭ icom


    I see KIA UK are now saying the Niro hybrid is also self charging

    https://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/all-new-niro/

    The Kia Niro
    Low emissions self-charging hybrid

    :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭ Round Cable


    icom wrote: »
    I see KIA UK are now saying the Niro hybrid is also self charging

    https://www.kia.com/uk/new-cars/all-new-niro/

    The Kia Niro
    Low emissions self-charging hybrid

    :eek:

    Honda are at it too with the CR-V hybrid.


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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    Petrol owners could as easily point to the slave labour used to bring your electric cars to market

    child-slavery-cobalt-mine.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭ Round Cable


    biko wrote: »
    Petrol owners could as easily point to the slave labour used to bring your electric cars to market

    child-slavery-cobalt-mine.jpg

    I'm happy to be driving a EV with a cobalt free battery, but I cannot see any more being produced in the next few years. Tesla were taking about first reducing and ultimately removing it from their batteries long term.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ Twenty Grand


    biko wrote: »
    Petrol owners could as easily point to the slave labour used to bring your electric cars to market]

    Cobalt is used in far more than EV batteries and there's more than just Cobalt being mined there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    biko wrote: »
    Petrol owners could as easily point to the slave labour used to bring your electric cars to market

    child-slavery-cobalt-mine.jpg

    And I suppose magic pixies from happy land fly all the petrol and Diesel from the middle East? There are hundreds of thousands dead due to wars over oil, please drop the children mining Cobalt stance...only Trump would buy that nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,371 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    It's the power of marketing, and it's a shame Nissan don't have advertisement saying something like "3 times cheaper to fuel than outdated hybrid technology"

    Nissan's adds or lack of is really pathetic, still I see loads of leaf 40 on the road.

    Still, I'd rather see a hybrid than soot box diesel any day.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,773 ✭✭✭ TBi


    I hate these attacking ads. Electric cars can’t satisfy everyone’s needs and these hybrids are more environmentally friendly than a diesel or petrol.

    What do these ad makers want us to do? Drive a dirty diesel just because the hybrid tech isn’t perfect?

    Why don’t we all just drive gas guzzling v8’s cuz what’s the point in a more efficient car anyway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,371 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    TBi wrote: »
    I hate these attacking ads. Electric cars can’t satisfy everyone’s needs and these hybrids are more environmentally friendly than a diesel or petrol.

    What do these ad makers want us to do? Drive a dirty diesel just because the hybrid tech isn’t perfect?

    Why don’t we all just drive gas guzzling v8’s cuz what’s the point in a more efficient car anyway?

    No that's not the point, of course it's better to have a hybrid on the road but the issue is that Toyota spent Billions on Hydrogen R&D and publicly insisted Hydrogen cars were the way forward. What a waste, now they are still resistant to making any form of electric car and of course, they don't have to.

    Their hybrid tech hasn't changed a lot since 2004 that is shameful !

    They are marketing self charging as if it's better than electric mentioning that you don't have to plug it in as if that were bad.

    All manufacturers should have changed to hybrid 20 years ago but the E.U made some very foolish mistake by promoting Diesel as some form of green technology and by creating a farcical way of testing fuel consumption and emissions tests that favored the manufacturers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,369 ✭✭✭ Inviere


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    No that's not the point, of course it's better to have a hybrid on the road but the issue is that Toyota spent Billions on Hydrogen R&D and publicly insisted Hydrogen cars were the way forward. What a waste, now they are still resistant to making any form of electric car and of course, they don't have to.

    Their hybrid tech hasn't changed a lot since 2004 that is shameful !

    They are marketing self charging as if it's better than electric mentioning that you don't have to plug it in as if that were bad.

    All manufacturers should have changed to hybrid 20 years ago but the E.U made some very foolish mistake by promoting Diesel as some form of green technology and by creating a farcical way of testing fuel consumption and emissions tests that favored the manufacturers.

    Fair points, hard to argue with them. Some of the points raised in the picture above are pure garbage though. Ireland is only aiming to hit a figure of 40% energy provided by renewable by next year. That means it's not magic pixie dust powering EV's, it's likely a very high percentage of fossil fuel energy doing it. Yes overall EV's are more efficient with that energy, but I feel there's an element of head in the clouds going on with people when it comes to EV. Also the charging infrastructure here is nowhere near being ready for mass adoption unfortunately. I'm definitely pro-EV, and again your points re Toyota are good ones, but Toyota Hybrid is still a step in the right direction when it comes to changing overall thought patterns in Ireland re "chape tax" etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭ ForestFire


    McGaggs wrote: »
    Charging with flammable liquid instead of electrons is not self charging.

    Electrons made with coal, gas and oil burning plants?

    While I dont agree with "self charging", the fact is "zero emissions" is another fallacy.

    Unless of course the wind elections know how to find their way to cars batteries only?

    Don't get me wrong electric is better than hybrid and petrol, which is better than desiel. (battery production and weight not considered)

    Just don't believe any of their marketing, this is solely designed to convince you how to buy their car, by whatever "legally acceptable" means they can.

    Look at Nissians claim of 2 new cars for the price of 1.
    Well not really, as you never have 2 cars at any stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,807 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    What I want to know is where the guy goes on holiday in the Toyota ad who says he's now saving the price of a holiday with his hybrid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,371 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Electric cars use whatever available green energy is on the grid when charging which is now "up to 75%" at any given time, yes it will be much less at times but hybrid cars can not avail of any green energy on the grid.

    We're producing 68% of our total energy from wind right now.

    http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#all

    Electric cars are not 100% clean but they are many times greener than hybrid, diesel, petrol.

    Coal will be gone altogether in a few years down from 25% mix 2 years ago, now it rarely sees 5%.

    Petrol has to be refined and that consumes a lot of petrol/diesel + electric cars use their energy at up to 80% efficiency compared to about 20-40% max for the best most efficient ICE cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭ mad m


    Have a Yaris hybrid. Great little car for in and around town, it does make you think when putting pressure on pedal as you don’t want the engine to kick in. Motorway driving as it’s a 1.5L it’s a gas guzzler.

    If I stay around 60klm or just under I get battery for good bit before engine kicks in. Engine does as it should kick in sooner once aircon etc is being used.

    These new hybrids at 1.8 or 2 litre engines must be fuel hungry as well, even more so than the Yaris. I fill the Yaris up around 3-4 weeks at around 35-40 blips.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭ ForestFire


    Just notified of this review from one of my favourite car review channels. What a coincidence :-)

    https://youtu.be/tI9vx7vtNas


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,700 ✭✭✭✭ blade1


    What I want to know is where the guy goes on holiday in the Toyota ad who says he's now saving the price of a holiday with his hybrid.

    My 2.5 lexus hybrid goes to Dublin and back for €34.
    My last lexus,a 2L petrol lexus used to cost me €100 to do the same journey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭ dloob


    I don’t think Toyota have helped things by slagging off electric cars in the new hybrid Corolla ad.
    https://pushevs.com/2019/02/12/toyota-keeps-pushing-anti-ev-propaganda/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭ ofcork


    What I want to know is where the guy goes on holiday in the Toyota ad who says he's now saving the price of a holiday with his hybrid.

    Or the one who only fills her chr every 3 weeks!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,369 ✭✭✭ Inviere


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Electric cars use whatever available green energy is on the grid when charging

    Is that true? How is it managed? Very impressive if so.

    Overall, what is our current renewable percentage generated? If our goal is to hit 40% by next year, and 70% by 2030, I presume the figures you posted are quite localized in time?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ Mike9832


    blade1 wrote: »
    My 2.5 lexus hybrid goes to Dublin and back for €34.
    My last lexus,a 2L petrol lexus used to cost me €100 to do the same journey.

    From where?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,854 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Inviere wrote: »
    Is that true? How is it managed? Very impressive if so.

    Overall, what is our current renewable percentage generated? If our goal is to hit 40% by next year, and 70% by 2030, I presume the figures you posted are quite localized in time?

    Linky


    At this very moment, 70% of all electricity used in Ireland is renewable (wind)

    The maximum percentage that the grid can handle is 75% and going up every year

    Most EVs charge at night when a considerable percentage of their charge will come from renewables

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,700 ✭✭✭✭ blade1


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    From where?

    County cork


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,369 ✭✭✭ Inviere


    unkel wrote: »
    Linky


    At this very moment, 70% of all electricity used in Ireland is renewable (wind)

    The maximum percentage that the grid can handle is 75% and going up every year

    Most EVs charge at night when a considerable percentage of their charge will come from renewables

    Yep seen that link above. The 70% figure is a 'right now' figure (it's a windy night), so I assume then the media articles saying we're aiming for 40% in 2020, and maybe 70% by 2030 are not simply "right now" figures, but are 'sustainable' figures that won't depend on a windy night?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,371 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Inviere wrote: »
    Is that true? How is it managed? Very impressive if so.

    Overall, what is our current renewable percentage generated? If our goal is to hit 40% by next year, and 70% by 2030, I presume the figures you posted are quite localized in time?

    Yes, whatever is on the grid we use for everything , to power mega data centres to electric cars.

    The link I posted is showing our total energy from wind to power the whole Island is 67% at this moment so anything using electricity is using this wind energy.

    Total energy mix for 2018 was 30% from wind.

    Our greatest issue is the fact we got too much wind energy and no solar PV to add on calm days , if every roof in Ireland had solar pv it would make a huge difference but there needs to be a feed in tariff which means excess goes to the grid and you buy it back when you need it saving money on batteries that are unsuitable for storing solar pV in Ireland anyway due to the long daylight hours in Summer and short winter days, in other words, you'd have far too much excess in Summer and would hardly charge the battery in Winter.

    If you can send all to the grid you could buy it back to power electric storage heaters for instance, my Partners Parents do this in Germany and it works very well.

    We have some way to go yet but sadly they only think about wind because investors want return on their investments as fast as possible and they think wind will do this so they have little interest in Solar PV.

    + I don't think there is as much incentives for solar PV in ireland because it's long considered not worth it here but nothing could be further from the truth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    unkel wrote: »
    At this very moment, 70% of all electricity used in Ireland is renewable (wind)

    Open to correction but I think it's 70% of renewable energy is coming from wind not 70% of electricity.
    10% of the energy going into EV's is from renewable resources, the other 90% can be a mix of anything, diesel, coal etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,371 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Open to correction but I think it's 70% of renewable energy is coming from wind not 70% of electricity.
    10% of the energy going into EV's is from renewable resources, the other 90% can be a mix of anything, diesel, coal etc.

    No, the link shows the current mix of energy on the grid right now which is 67% of our total energy needs right now being met with wind alone.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,198 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Inviere wrote: »
    Is that true? How is it managed? Very impressive if so.

    It just means that whatever renewables are in the grid at any given time the EV is benefitting from. It doesnt mean that the EV is using 75% renewable all the time.

    Inviere wrote: »
    Overall, what is our current renewable percentage generated? If our goal is to hit 40% by next year, and 70% by 2030, I presume the figures you posted are quite localized in time?

    Averaged for the year its about 30%.
    Can be anything from 0-75% depending on how much wind there is.

    30% renewable means the EV has a 30% head start on every ICE car and the other 70% it is averaging from fossil fuel is used much more efficiently in an EV than it is in an ICE. There is no comparing the two really. The EV is significantly better.


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