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Boards Beginner Training By Debate

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  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭Rossi7


    I'd be surprised if any "beginner" made it to page 2 of this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    Rossi7 wrote: »
    I'd be surprised if any "beginner" made it to page 2 of this thread.

    Sorry about that, here's a photo of me for the last day

    duty_calls.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    It's a great thread. It's just evolved beyond the thread title.


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭Rossi7


    It could be, but I don't think I'm the only one who thought it would go the way it has. The average Joe just wants to be told how to put one foot in front of the other. Their not arsed about the mechanics of it all


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭Sacksian


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    IHere's the thoughts of a few renowned coaches on beginners and intermediate runners training.

    EC - there's little point in me repeating myself and derailing the thread further, so I'll retreat to the xc and middle-distance threads!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    For instance, If I put two workouts out there and asked which one was more anarobic and which was more aerobic?

    12x400m w/30sec recovery
    12x400m w/2min recovery


    Most even very experienced runners would pick the first as anaerobic when that's actually the most aerobic workout. It's counterintuitive stuff and I feel like it's information overload for a newer runner. Same when talking Lydiard phases, I know because I've been talking about phased training here for years and it gets a lot of resistance even though it's the foundation to all good modern training Etc....
    .

    Context on this thread is so important. As a beginner I'd have approached 400s the same regardless of recovery, just give them a good lash, hang on and get slower as the reps progressed. Also 12x would be a lot of reps for a beginner.

    Better to say that 400s are at your current 5k pace, the recovery is jogging/walking/running/sitting down...

    The first one off 30 secs is more anaerobic if you are stopping and starting each rep. The 2min recovery is more aerobic if you are jogging the recoveries.

    Context


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    Context on this thread is so important. As a beginner I'd have approached 400s the same regardless of recovery, just give them a good lash, hang on and get slower as the reps progressed. Also 12x would be a lot of reps for a beginner.

    Better to say that 400s are at your current 5k pace, the recovery is jogging/walking/running/sitting down...

    The first one off 30 secs is more anaerobic if you are stopping and starting each rep. The 2min recovery is more aerobic if you are jogging the recoveries.

    Context

    I was only making a point about how complex manipulating recoveries and intervals and counterintuitive it is shotgun. I wasn't trying to dissect exact workouts, I was actually trying to argue that intervals are complex:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 cumminsciaran


    As a relative beginner I'm very lost when it comes to my training, as I said I like to read and try to understand what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, not that it always works out that way 😂
    I ran on and off last year, no injuries related to running and completed my first half marathon. I'm not fast by any means but looking for some form of structure to my training while trying to push to marathon distance for DCM in a very adventurous time by beginners standards, all while working a 4 cycle shift pattern.
    What confuses me most is the amount of info out there, there is so much to take in and understand. Trying to figure out my training paces for different types of sessions, how long training blocks should last and how many different blocks I should be completing, and also when to train on feel or train through the fatigue, so basically everything lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    I was only making a point about how complex manipulating recoveries and intervals and counterintuitive it is shotgun. I wasn't trying to dissect exact workouts, I was actually trying to argue that intervals are complex:(

    No worries, I wasn't arguing. Intervals are complex for sure and you can easily balance either side of AT but from a beginner POV reps are simple enough (If only everything was!). The basic thing and a lot of this thread is the beginner understanding that easy means easy and hard is hard. Its easier when you are on a track session with others or a coach or club etc but on your own, just so easy to get carried away


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,438 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Bottom line is, those sessions are only aerobic/anaerobic if done right - ie if the pace you run them justifies the recovery. An awful lot of runners run aerobic reps too hard, and anaerobic not hard enough. Whoever’s in charge of the session (if there is someone) should at least give pointers on this. If a runner is following a plan, s/he should read the small print (e.g. McMillan distinguishes ‘reps’ from ‘intervals’ based on the above).

    But I agree an awful lot of runners (and they don’t have to be beginners) don’t do this.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    Murph_D wrote: »
    If a runner is following a plan, s/he should read the small print (e.g. McMillan distinguishes ‘reps’ from ‘intervals’ based on the above).

    I actually think this part of your comment makes good standalone advice too. I'm surprised by how many people follow plans from Hal Higdon or Faster Road Running and don't read the information that goes with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,438 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    I actually think this part of your comment makes good standalone advice too. I'm surprised by how many people follow plans from Hal Higdon or Faster Road Running and don't read the information that goes with them.

    TLDR culture! :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    As a relative beginner I'm very lost when it comes to my training, as I said I like to read and try to understand what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, not that it always works out that way ��
    I ran on and off last year, no injuries related to running and completed my first half marathon. I'm not fast by any means but looking for some form of structure to my training while trying to push to marathon distance for DCM in a very adventurous time by beginners standards, all while working a 4 cycle shift pattern.
    What confuses me most is the amount of info out there, there is so much to take in and understand. Trying to figure out my training paces for different types of sessions, how long training blocks should last and how many different blocks I should be completing, and also when to train on feel or train through the fatigue, so basically everything lol

    There'll be a thread like this set up in a few months for 2019 Dublin marathon novices, keep an eye out for it.

    In that first post there are links to two training plans. Have a look at those and, if you think you'll be following one of them, think about the gap between where you are now and what week 3 or 4 of that programme prescribes, and over the next few months work on bridging that gap.

    Consistency is the most important thing. Running on and off means you are going back to the start every time. Work out a realistic schedule and stick to it.

    As for deciding on paces, length of training block, types of sessions... if you are just starting off, the best thing to do is pick one source of information and follow it. Join a club and follow their programme, pick up a book and follow a programme from that, get on online coach and do what they say. (The advantage of picking a person rather than a book is that you can give feedback and they can adjust a plan) After a year of letting someone else make these decisions for you, you will have the context to understand how everything fits together, and how to pick and choose elements for yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 cumminsciaran


    That's a great thread, I wasn't aware something like that was started every year.
    I'm already in and around week 3's milage so for me between now and the start of my marathon training in June I want to try build a little bit of distance and alot of pace. My long runs as they currently stand are between 8 and 12 miles with mid week runs ranging from 3 to 6 miles. No track work done as yet but I am incorporating hill sprints during my lower milage runs trying to build speed and stamina.


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