Rental Query

furryhead

Hi all. I am looking for some information in relation to rental properties. Myself and my wife are struggling to find a place. Our own situation is that we both have permanent jobs in public sector and good references so in a different time would have been attractive tenants!! We are struggling to get viewings but after having viewed a place recently and learning that our previous landlord had received a call about us we got our hopes up. Unfortunately we got an email stating there had been several offers on the place and the landlord had chosen someone else. I am confused by the word "offers". We filled in our paperwork at the viewing and nowhere were we asked about what we were offering. We assumed the asking price is the final price. Could anyone clarify
1. Is it a bidding war to get a rental and we are being naive?
2. Is it the landlord or the estate agent who ultimately make the final decision?

We have no issue with a decision going against us but just need to know if we are approaching this correctly. Thanks

Samuel T. Cogley

There shouldn't be a bidding war in Rent Pressure Zones (RPZ).

Are you going suited and booted with everything in a folder ready to go?

furryhead

Thanks for the reply. Yes we had everything with us but we were asked to scan it and send it via email. It may well be that we just lost out. I was confused by the word offers. Who ultimately has the final say in a rental? The agent or the landlord?

Graham

Could be either, some landlords just hand over the entire thing to an agent. Others prefer to have the final say in the selection.

Fol20

Speaking from a ll point of view here, i will tell you how the process works for me. I mainly manage my properties however at times if im too busy, i offload the advertising of trying to get a new tenant in to an ea.

The ea will show prospective tenants the property.
Interested tenants will submit their info(this is you submitting your "offer"/ interest in it).
The ea will then provide the info to the ll and i will inspect it along with the ea's opinion on them.
I will then pick the best candidate and go from there. You still have a lot of tyre kickers in the rental industry so even if you offer it to one person, they may decline as they are telling all places they visit they want it until the right one they actually want comes up

Hope this clarifies it for you

The_Conductor

You could always write a short note to the Estate Agent along the lines of-

Thankyou for recently giving us the opportunity to view (name of property).
Unfortunately the landlord appears to have chosen an alternate tenant.
We would be grateful if you could possibly indicate what the landlord took into account and what distinguished the preferred tenant over us in the eyes of the landlord- as we are very serious prospective tenants and would appreciate knowing why we were unsuccessful on this occasion.

Kind regards,

(Your names here)

davo2001

The_Conductor wrote: »

You could always write a short note to the Estate Agent along the lines of-

Thankyou for recently giving us the opportunity to view (name of property).
Unfortunately the landlord appears to have chosen an alternate tenant.
We would be grateful if you could possibly indicate what the landlord took into account and what distinguished the preferred tenant over us in the eyes of the landlord- as we are very serious prospective tenants and would appreciate knowing why we were unsuccessful on this occasion.

Kind regards,

(Your names here)

Do you honestly think the EA would bother to reply to this? Come off it!

And even if they did, all they would say would be something along of lines of "a more subtle tenant was picked"

TheBoyConor

An estate agent wouldn't even waste their time reading to the bottom of that email. It would go right into the deleted folder. They are under no obligation to tell you anything.

Bigmac1euro

davo2001 wrote: »

Do you honestly think the EA would bother to reply to this? Come off it!

And even if they did, all they would say would be something along of lines of "a more subtle tenant was picked"

There's no harm in trying though. Why would you rule out asking the question?

Some people do have feelings and the estate agent might reply with a good and honest answer.

There are some decent people left in the world you know.

Op, though it is illegal for LL to accept/charge more than the limit in RPZs, there has been reports in the media of tenants offering to pay more to secure a property.

Subutai

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

There's no harm in trying though. Why would you rule out asking the question?

Some people do have feelings and the estate agent might reply with a good and honest answer.

There are some decent people left in the world you know.

There's being decent and being so decent that you're made a fool of. There's nothing to be gained by anyone in answering that sort of a question. There is a lot of potential liability though should you be careless enough to say something that is perceived as a breach of the Equal Status Acts.

The_Conductor

davo2001 wrote: »

Do you honestly think the EA would bother to reply to this? Come off it!

And even if they did, all they would say would be something along of lines of "a more subtle tenant was picked"

Well- nothing ventured, nothing gained.
If the estate agent has any humanity at all (which is questionable)- the least they could do is give people pointers on how to better sell themselves as prospective tenants. Today's tenant- could very well be tomorrow's prospective purchaser or seller- and people have long memories.........

If you don't hear anything back formally- a brief phone call might induce the EA to elaborate. You're not looking for something in writing that is going to cause them trouble- you are genuinely looking for pointers as to what makes the ideal tenant- nothing more, nothing less.

I fully accept that its a beauty parade- but at least in a conventional beauty parade- you know how the participants are marked in different categories- and how someone bettered you- whereas here- you get no feedback. All we're trying to do- is get a little elaboration from the landlord- of course without tripping themselves up at the same time.

It is a bit of a damned no matter what you do situation.

machalla

I would imagine offers of higher rent could be made on a property that has never been rented out before since its not bound by a previous tenancy.

The_Conductor

Dav010 wrote: »

Op, though it is illegal for LL to accept/charge more than the limit in RPZs, there has been reports in the media of tenants offering to pay more to secure a property.

Thats both illegal- and could also come back to bite the landlord in the arse- as the tenant could, at any time, lodge a complaint with the RTB about the level of rent- despite the fact that they instituted the illegal increase to secure the property in the first instance.

A far better option for a tenant- would be to offer a superior deposit- say 2-3 month's deposit- or even more- to distinguish them from the other prospective tenants. The idea that a deposit is 1 month's rent- is some quaint tradition in Ireland and the UK- and is not bourne out elsewhere. It might make you very attractive as a prospective tenant.

You can't offer higher rent- but you can offer other inducements- such as a superior deposit?

Fol20

The_Conductor wrote: »

Thats both illegal- and could also come back to bite the landlord in the arse- as the tenant could, at any time, lodge a complaint with the RTB about the level of rent- despite the fact that they instituted the illegal increase to secure the property in the first instance.

A far better option for a tenant- would be to offer a superior deposit- say 2-3 month's deposit- or even more- to distinguish them from the other prospective tenants. The idea that a deposit is 1 month's rent- is some quaint tradition in Ireland and the UK- and is not bourne out elsewhere. It might make you very attractive as a prospective tenant.

You can't offer higher rent- but you can offer other inducements- such as a superior deposit?

I have come across situations where i am based where a prospective tenant offers a superior deposit even though not needed and actually scares a ll away as it might be a play for a bad tenant to get into a place. Wont go into specfics but you would be surprised and some situations out there.

GGTrek

davo2001 wrote: »

Do you honestly think the EA would bother to reply to this? Come off it!

And even if they did, all they would say would be something along of lines of "a more subtle tenant was picked"

With the current anti landlord legislation it is very unlikely the tenant will receive any answer at all except those 6 words. I had candidate tenants that were not selected asking and I did not reply: too much risk for the LL for no benefit at all. Good manners have been wiped out by continous politically correct interventions of the Irish legislators in the name of "discrimination" in reality to force LL to accept unsuitable tenants and removing freedom of contract for the LLs. People in this forum have to be given the full truth on why the feedback from LLs or EAs is almost non existan nowadays, stop believing what the press and the govvie are spouting out and understand the intrusiveness of current legislation.

rightmove

GGTrek wrote: »

With the current anti landlord legislation it is very unlikely the tenant will receive any answer at all except those 6 words. I had candidate tenants that were not selected asking and I did not reply: too much risk for the LL for no benefit at all. Good manners have been wiped out by continous politically correct interventions of the Irish legislators in the name of "discrimination" in reality to force LL to accept unsuitable tenants and removing freedom of contract for the LLs. People in this forum have to be given the full truth on why the feedback from LLs or EAs is almost non existan nowadays, stop believing what the press and the govvie are spouting out and understand the intrusiveness of current legislation.

Op the funny thing is , is that all the anti 'll measures look to be pro tenant but they actually make it harder for tenants. So under the hood they are actually anti tenant. On surface it looks good and plays well in the media. I was both a 'll and tenant until recently so I feel I know what I am talking about.

Claw Hammer

Some landlords are now choosing students over working tenants. Students are inevitably going to move and thus the part four trap is avoided. Agents are also recommending shorter term tenants so they can get another commission and the tenant moves. This of course turns long-standing practice on its head but that is what meddling in the market does.

trishabon

furryhead wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Yes we had everything with us but we were asked to scan it and send it via email. It may well be that we just lost out. I was confused by the word offers. Who ultimately has the final say in a rental? The agent or the landlord?

I have been going through this routine for the past three years... Hardly any viewings, sometimes 30+ people viewing the same apartment. One EA even sent an email after a viewing saying that we didn't qualify BUT if we paid the full deposit (€1500) into their bank account they would review the application. If we still didn't qualify they would refund the deposit less 10% admin fee but if they found our references to be unsuitable in any way they would keep the full deposit!!! This is a well established Dublin EA.
Eventually moved in with a friend. Gave her the rent in cash every month. Few months ago she moved out and I discovered that she never had a tenancy agreement. Been paying a dodgy landlord cash every month to keep a roof over my head, but what else to do? Now he's trying to bully me out of my home and even if I get him exposed through relevant organisations, it's not going to get me a new home. I am now on disability allowance after a spinal fusion last November so not looking too good here.

trishabon

trishabon wrote: »

I have been going through this routine for the past three years... Hardly any viewings, sometimes 30+ people viewing the same apartment. One EA even sent an email after a viewing saying that we didn't qualify BUT if we paid the full deposit (€1500) into their bank account they would review the application. If we still didn't qualify they would refund the deposit less 10% admin fee but if they found our references to be unsuitable in any way they would keep the full deposit!!! This is a well established Dublin EA.
Eventually moved in with a friend. Gave her the rent in cash every month. Few months ago she moved out and I discovered that she never had a tenancy agreement. Been paying a dodgy landlord cash every month to keep a roof over my head, but what else to do? Now he's trying to bully me out of my home and even if I get him exposed through relevant organisations, it's not going to get me a new home. I am now on disability allowance after a spinal fusion last November so not looking too good here.

That is absolutely despicable behaviour. But it shows the degree of competition for places out there and the importance of references/proof of income.

You are up against people who will pay above the RPZ limit and not complain. For the LL/EA it is a risk worth taking. If the tenant complains, the LL gets a slap and a fine, the tenant has zero chance of renting in the future once the LL decides to “sell” or give it to a relative.

overkill602

spoke to an agent this week about letting a 1 bed in dublin city centre was told it could take a couple of weeks as the demand is hugh but there are "tons of muck in that demand", lots of made up documents she quoted about 1 in 2 in the meantime i just got a genuine inquiry will follow and let myself

The_Conductor

overkill602 wrote: »

spoke to an agent this week about letting a 1 bed in dublin city centre was told it could take a couple of weeks as the demand is hugh but there are "tons of muck in that demand", lots of made up documents she quoted about 1 in 2 in the meantime i just got a genuine inquiry will follow and let myself

Be careful.

trishabon

overkill602 wrote: »

spoke to an agent this week about letting a 1 bed in dublin city centre was told it could take a couple of weeks as the demand is hugh but there are "tons of muck in that demand", lots of made up documents she quoted about 1 in 2 in the meantime i just got a genuine inquiry will follow and let myself

At least you will know who you are dealing with and renting to. In my experience agents only want to collect their fee and don't care about placing a decent tenant in your property... Just cover themselves by saying the references checked out.

dowhatyoulove

I’m moving back to Dublin - are the estate agents really that bad?

Any pointers about what’s considered to be beneficial? Before I moved from Ireland (6 years ago) I would have never had a problem getting rentals.

trishabon

Well I suppose it's about what your price range is... Try browsing daft or my home for a few days and see how many viewings you get and watch how quickly they go, especially if you're looking in Dublin. Very different to six years ago. Best of luck!

rightmove

dowhatyoulove wrote: »

I’m moving back to Dublin - are the estate agents really that bad?

Any pointers about what’s considered to be beneficial? Before I moved from Ireland (6 years ago) I would have never had a problem getting rentals.

Anti ll legislation and rhetoric means less rentals around

Samuel T. Cogley

Demand is through the roof but people just aren't investing vs. the number of accidental LL's dropping out due to peaking out of negative equity. My tips are don't deal only with agents, go suited and booted with everything in a folder ready to go, and that includes bank statements proving rent has been paid in last place (redacting everything else is fine). Plenty kick up about that, but frankly there are plenty that go along with it so draw your own conclusions. In addition have a work reference and a reference from (ideally) your last two LLs.

There is just too much risk in getting it wrong not to do a proper, cross referenced, reference check.

beauf

I could be wrong but I think a lot of people are doing cash deals that can't be proven. I think that is what you are competing against.

Samuel T. Cogley

beauf wrote: »

I could be wrong but I think a lot of people are doing cash deals that can't be proven. I think that is what you are competing against.

I don't think you're wrong, but through an agent? Would they really risk a complaint?

dowhatyoulove

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Demand is through the roof but people just aren't investing vs. the number of accidental LL's dropping out due to peaking out of negative equity. My tips are don't deal only with agents, go suited and booted with everything in a folder ready to go, and that includes bank statements proving rent has been paid in last place (redacting everything else is fine). Plenty kick up about that, but frankly there are plenty that go along with it so draw your own conclusions. In addition have a work reference and a reference from (ideally) your last two LLs.

There is just too much risk in getting it wrong not to do a proper, cross referenced, reference check.

Wonderful - thanks. We don’t pay our rent through our bank as I’m in Middle East and they just don’t do that here (well our last 3 landlords haven’t, it’s changing now) but I’ll see if our current landlord will give us a record of us paying rent from the last 3 years and hopefully that should be ok.

We will have a work reference as well so hopefully it will be ok. We have somewhere to stay when we land as well thankfully

beauf

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I don't think you're wrong, but through an agent? Would they really risk a complaint?

They might be doing it through sub letting. How is anyone to know.

I guess the people offering the money want the place. If they complain they are cutting the branch they are standing on. If people are willing to live 10 to a room I think there has to be a black market rent going on also.

What is needed is a third party bond system. Not references which can be faked and circumvented. No matter how good your referenced are someone else has faked far better ones.

Samuel T. Cogley

Oh I agree totally on the references which is why a cross check is so important - even that is not infallible. I'd settle for a a credit referencing system.