Stopped for going through an amber light.

williestroker1

Stopped by Guards for cycling through an amber light on my way home this evening. Tried to explain the light went amber when I was about 2 meters from it and would have to break hard to stop. Didn't know if there was another cyclist behind me and they possibly run into the back of me. He wasnt having any of it, insisted I should have stopped at the amber. Admitted to me the light was amber and not red.
Fine to follow.
I'm livid about this. I always comply to the rules of the road, even sit at a pedestrian red light even if no one is crossing.
Obviously he was having a bad day and decided to take it out on the easiest target.
BTW it was a pedestrian light with on one waiting to cross.
We really are easy targets.

jimmycrackcorm

Did the guards take any action? If so I'd stand for a while at those lights and video record never ending numbers of cats going through.

magicbastarder

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'd stand for a while at those lights and video record never ending numbers of cats going through.

road traffic law does not apply to wild animals.

notwithstanding the typo, i don't see what good this would do.

mollser

Got stopped for this in a South Dublin village of a Sunday morning a while ago, a village which is very busy with cyclists. We stopped at the pedestrian crossroads on a red to let a lady and her daughter across, no problem there. When they had crossed we absentmindedly rolled through (still on red). Pulled us over, he threatened to take our bikes and put them in his van because he fancied them, but in fairness we ended up having a chat about mtbing in the Dublin mountains and he let us on our way. I think he was really bored. Sound fella!

Careful out there folks!

williestroker1

Got to point out I didn't get lippy with him. Just point out under the rules of the road I did the right thing to continue as I couldn't have known if there was anyone close behind me. This seemed to annoy him.
What do I do in future. Break hard if a green light changes to amber even if I'm already on top of it and risk another cyclist running into the back of me?
Or continue on and risk another fine?
Or maybe give up cycling and add to the Dublin traffic congestion?

Samuel T. Cogley

Carry on, chances of it happening again are minuscule.

Wishbone Ash

williestroker1 wrote: »

...Fine to follow....

If you feel strongly about it don't pay the fine and argue you case in front of a judge. I'd send a formal letter with the fine request stating why you are refusing to pay - otherwise it might look like you just couldn't be arsed paying it.

(very frustrating will so many motorists blatantly ignoring red lights never mind amber ones).

monkeysnapper

I think you should take it on , have ur day in court ... I would .

williestroker1

Looked up how to appeal. Just a matter of filling out a form. to be honest I don't care about the 40eur fine, its more the principle of it.
I used to run but the body gave up on me so I switched to cycling and love it. Great way to commute but incidents like this annoy me. As the most vulnerable road users we should be protected not have to put up with this type of thing from AGS.

ED E

Camera on the handlebars. Any member who tried to FCPN me for a last minute amber would have to explain Sec 13 to a judge. Not because of the €40 just because they were being a knob.

(2) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows an amber light while no other traffic light lamp (immediately above or below) shows any light, shall not proceed beyond the stop line at that light (or, if there is no such stop line, beyond the light) save when the vehicle is so close to the stop line when the amber light shows that the vehicle cannot safely be halted before crossing the stop line.

Stoner

Happened me in my car. He wasn't bothered that there was someone behind me either , he'd been standing there for 30 minutes clocking people breaking orange lights. The neighbors on the road I was turning right onto had made a complaint as they couldn't get out of their houses in the evening as the break in the traffic was too short to get out due to people breaking orange and red lights.

It was a fair point .

Lumen

I've never been unable to stop safely on amber on a bike, car or motorbike.

I don't claim to be perfect but just don't see the problem. Maybe because I learned to drive in a country with traffic light cameras and enforcement, you just wouldn't risk it. I was taught to prepare to stop on a stale green.

However, in this case I'd appeal. Very much doubt it will go to court.

ShiverinEskimo

williestroker1 wrote: »

What do I do in future. Break hard if a green light changes to amber even if I'm already on top of it and risk another cyclist running into the back of me?
Or continue on and risk another fine?
Or maybe give up cycling and add to the Dublin traffic congestion?

How about slow down when approaching a junction and prepare to stop on the chance the green light that's been active for your entire approach is likely to change to yellow at any moment?

Just another option maybe. The same logic applies to a car. If anything tho, a car will normally fully clear a junction if they break an Amber before the other waiting cars get their green. The same can't be said for a cyclist.

Mc Love

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

How about slow down when approaching a junction and prepare to stop on the chance the green light that's been active for your entire approach is likely to change to yellow at any moment?

Just another option maybe. The same logic applies to a car. If anything tho, a car will normally fully clear a junction if they break an Amber before the other waiting cars get their green. The same can't be said for a cyclist.

Was going to say about anticipating the light change but the OP might have only seen the lights across the road change to amber if he was that close to the lights on his side.

When taking off I always take off on when the pedestrian countdown timer is on 2 seconds because by the time I reach the other side of the junction the lights are green, and it gives me a jump on the car behind me, who are more often than not otherwise distracted.

williestroker1

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.343656,-6.2699299,3a,75y,208.27h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKPCkRIuL_OZvaFNfKTtTbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This is the junction. I was at the white line, front of the beige car when the light turned amber. Garda car waiting to turn right, where the bus is. Dont think I would have time to shoulder check and stop before going through junction.

ewc78

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Did the guards take any action? If so I'd stand for a while at those lights and video record never ending numbers of cats going through.

What about dogs?

amcalester

Even if you tried to stop you'd have ended up in the pedestrian crossing.

professore

Lumen wrote: »

I've never been unable to stop safely on amber on a bike, car or motorbike.

Try Cork City. 2/3 cars go through after the light is red! And some even beep at you foe not doing it of you're in front of them! As for cyclists they just ignore the traffic lights altogether.

worded

As you can’t get points on your licence here for cycling offenses it’s not the end of the world.

FYI > In Czech Republic (poss poland too) if you get caught with alcohol taken cycling, you get your licence taken off you, all of them. If you happen to have a truck / car licence etc - all gone!
That’s if your a Czech citizen, but I suspect tourists are fined. On holidays there I was breathalyzer twice in the one day on a bike. It was 39 degrees near a lake area and they thought I was in the soup as lots of local bars around.

In ore recently I went through a yellow with an unmarked car tail gaiting me so I had little choice, I was then pulled

They said red, I said yellow on repeat, it was def yellow and safer to proceed than stop.

If you admit to a red you are an easy day in court for the guard.

I think you will be OK OP try not get too stressed about it.

The only time I was done on a motor bike was in bus lane when a special branch car was blocking the entire lane and I asked them to move :-) I got a 40 euro fine

Thems the breaks

Happy cycling

Effects

professore wrote: »

Try Cork City. 2/3 cars go through after the light is red!

You Cork people think you're better than the Dubs but you're not. Our drivers do that consistently.

worded

Driving like my brother joke

Two guys are driving. Well, actually, only one is driving, the other is riding. Anyway, they're driving along, and they come to a red light. The driver blows right through it! The passenger says "What the hell, man?! That was a red light!" The driver waves him off, saying, "My brother drives like this!"

So they drive a little while longer, and they come to another red light. Once again, the driver blows right through it. The passenger freaks out. The driver says, "Man, relax, alright? My brother always drives like this, and he's never been in one accident."

A few moments later, they come to a green light, and they stop. The passenger looks at the driver and says, "What the hell are you stopping now for?"

"Well, my brother might be coming the other way!"

rushfan

Tbh, telling you that a fine will follow might also have been an attempt to get you to admit to doing something that you haven't done. I wouldn't worry about it until a fine comes in the post.

dhaughton99

williestroker1 wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.343656,-6.2699299,3a,75y,208.27h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKPCkRIuL_OZvaFNfKTtTbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This is the junction. I was at the white line, front of the beige car when the light turned amber. Garda car waiting to turn right, where the bus is. Dont think I would have time to shoulder check and stop before going through junction.

Christ, never a garda there when FX Buckly park their van at the blind turn and in the bike lane.

Also wouldn’t bother their hole removing the junkies from selling tabs 50 feet from that junction.

Gingganggooley

williestroker1 wrote:

Obviously he was having a bad day and decided to take it out on the easiest target. BTW it was a pedestrian light with on one waiting to cross. We really are easy targets.

In the last two years, I have found an increasing number of occasions where the Garda are very zealous over marginal situations. Previously, something like this would have been dealt with with a verbal warning and a bit of finger wagging.


It's leaving me with the impression that they're more concerned about hitting targets rather than traditional policing. They are at risk of eroding the confidence of the silent majority of middle Ireland with their heavy handed approach.

kirving

williestroker1 wrote: »

Didn't know if there was another cyclist behind me and they possibly run into the back of me..

That's their responsibility to see you brake and be able to stop in time, you should still stop at amber except in exceptional circumstances.

I obviously wasn't there, but I do think you were very hard done by given the description.

For what it's worth, I was pulled before we had on the spot fines, for stopping past the white line where the cyclist is, but in front of the pedestrian line. Gard then called me across the junction while the pedestrian lights were amber to say I had broken the light because I crossed the white line. Ended up with a lot more than a €40 fine.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3194561,-6.2906405,3a,48.8y,222.96h,83.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ssvFlXU5gGKV_2ZPobjOcfw!2e0!5s20090701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Ray Bloody Purchase

Kevin Irving wrote: »

That's their responsibility to see you brake and be able to stop in time, you should still stop at amber except in exceptional circumstances.

I obviously wasn't there, but I do think you were very hard done by given the description.

For what it's worth, I was pulled before we had on the spot fines, for stopping past the white line where the cyclist is, but in front of the pedestrian line. Gard then called me across the junction while the pedestrian lights were amber to say I had broken the light because I crossed the white line. Ended up with a lot more than a €40 fine.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3194561,-6.2906405,3a,48.8y,222.96h,83.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ssvFlXU5gGKV_2ZPobjOcfw!2e0!5s20090701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

That seems fairly petty. Where was the Garda? I've never seen them at those lights and i go through there every day.

Fian

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you feel strongly about it don't pay the fine and argue you case in front of a judge. I'd send a formal letter with the fine request stating why you are refusing to pay - otherwise it might look like you just couldn't be arsed paying it.

(very frustrating will so many motorists blatantly ignoring red lights never mind amber ones).

Unlikely that the Garda will show up for this, likely (but ofc not certain) that it will just be struck out for non-appearance by the Garda. You will lose a morning though, even if the Garda doesn't show up, and you will not get "your day in court". Also since it is such a minor offence it is likely that the judge will not take a huge interest in the case and that it will be dealt with swiftly. Even if the garda does arrive he might just apply for a strike out before the case begins.

If it does run and you are convicted after contesting it (and you might well be convicted if the garda gives evidence that you had time to stop and should have stopped) the penalty will be more than the €40 fixed penalty notice. You would be naive to go to court thinking that you won't be convicted if you are innocent, it would not be at all surprising if the version of events given by the garda under oath is significantly different from the version you have given here.

Not trying to encourage you to plead / accept the FPN, just suggesting you consider the practical realities.

kirving

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

That seems fairly petty. Where was the Garda? I've never seen them at those lights and i go through there every day.

On the opposite side of the road, where the LED lighting shop is today. One guy caught on the same day for the same was given a €350 fine if I remember correctly.

Another guy who I met outside told me he'd get off as his bother was a Gard. Sure enough, Garda asked for is to be stuck out immediately.

laotg

Kevin Irving wrote:

Another guy who I met outside told me he'd get off as his bother was a Gard. Sure enough, Garda asked for is to be stuck out immediately.

A random lad you met outside court tells you his brother is a guard and that he's gonna get off on whatever the summons was.

Sure....

CramCycle

Not having a go at the OP but just to give my view on a few things which would appear to be against popular opinion on this thread.

williestroker1 wrote: »

Tried to explain the light went amber when I was about 2 meters from it and would have to break hard to stop.

It could easily be pointed out that you should be ready to stop on green, so slowing down a bit anyway as is good practice. You may have right of way but it is still a junction where anything could happen. Was it possible to stop before the amber? Its a yes or no question.

Didn't know if there was another cyclist behind me and they possibly run into the back of me.

That's not an excuse though, if it was, no one would ever stop or the Garda would be popping you for cycling without due care and attention.

He wasnt having any of it, insisted I should have stopped at the amber. Admitted to me the light was amber and not red.

And I can see his point, they get given out to for not popping people, they get given out too for popping people.

Fine to follow.

Which is tiny in the grand scheme of things

I'm livid about this. I always comply to the rules of the road, even sit at a pedestrian red light even if no one is crossing.

Well that would appear to some not to be not technically true.

Obviously he was having a bad day and decided to take it out on the easiest target.

You cycled through an amber right in front of him. As a matter of interest, did you not see him before the junction? The last few days, the number of people I see getting done in their cars on the N11 when they jump into the bus lane, right in plain view of a garda, I wonder does anyone pay any attention anymore.

BTW it was a pedestrian light with on one waiting to cross.
We really are easy targets.

A pedestrian crossing light is just as valid as any other one.

Del2005

williestroker1 wrote: »

Stopped by Guards for cycling through an amber light on my way home this evening. Tried to explain the light went amber when I was about 2 meters from it and would have to break hard to stop. Didn't know if there was another cyclist behind me and they possibly run into the back of me. He wasnt having any of it, insisted I should have stopped at the amber. Admitted to me the light was amber and not red.
Fine to follow.
I'm livid about this. I always comply to the rules of the road, even sit at a pedestrian red light even if no one is crossing.
Obviously he was having a bad day and decided to take it out on the easiest target.
BTW it was a pedestrian light with on one waiting to cross.
We really are easy targets.

Is there a cycling equivalent of driving without due care? You should be aware of your surroundings and not being aware of what's behind is not a safe way to travel.

kirving

laotg wrote: »

A random lad you met outside court tells you his brother is a guard and that he's gonna get off on whatever the summons was.

Sure....

C'mon, no need to be so subtle. Just straight up call me a liar if you must.

I've been on this site for nearly 15 years, give plenty of detail about the situation, and went to the effort to post it.

How sad do you think I am that I'd make up such a specific detail? It was the early Jan 2012. I can give you the name of the Garda too if you have the means to look it up.

williestroker1

Del2005 wrote: »

Is there a cycling equivalent of driving without due care? You should be aware of your surroundings and not being aware of what's behind is not a safe way to travel.

On a bike? Even if I had eyes in the back of my head they would be covered by my helmet.

dhaughton99

Just back from a city cycle and a Garda community policing van went through a set of pedestrians reds with people about to cross on lord Edward st and parked up outside Dublin castle. Didn’t have the blues and twos on.

dhaughton99

dhaughton99 wrote: »

Just back from a city cycle and a Garda community policing van went through a set of pedestrians reds with people about to cross on lord Edward st and parked up outside Dublin castle. Didn’t have the blues and twos on.

Also seen a bicycle sticking out from under the wheels of a 40ft truck along the canal. Hope they are ok.

Effects

rushfan wrote: »

Tbh, telling you that a fine will follow might also have been an attempt to get you to admit to doing something that you haven't done. I wouldn't worry about it until a fine comes in the post.

Or an attempt to just get you to worry about it, acting as a punishment itself, and less paper work to complete.

Effects

dhaughton99 wrote: »

Christ, never a garda there when FX Buckly park their van at the blind turn and in the bike lane.

It's not just FX Buckley. I pass that junction a lot in the morning and the bike lane is blocked 52% of the time. But the taxi rank just ahead pushes into the cycle lane 72% of the time.

BrokenArrows

2 meters, you're a bicycle not a car.

You need to stop on an Amber because you're traveling much slower than a car so could be in the middle of the junction by the time the other side goes green.

dhaughton99

Effects wrote: »

It's not just FX Buckley. I pass that junction a lot in the morning and the bike lane is blocked 52% of the time. But the taxi rank just ahead pushes into the cycle lane 72% of the time.

Same here. I always spit on their mirror.

DirkVoodoo

Gardai on N11 this morning, stopping cars driving down the bus lane.

Well, not really. I could see one car had been stopped, but a second Garda was just standing further down the bus lane forcing all the cars back out.

I can understand that issuing fines to everyone would be laborious for them, but where is the consistency? These drivers were willfully breaking the law and undertaking traffic in a bus lane, only to be pushed back into traffic with a little wave.

No consistency.

Also, re the above about "not knowing if a bike is behind you being cycling without due care"...get real!

MojoMaker

Let's be honest OP, the colour of the light was irrelevant to you :pac:

Ray Bloody Purchase

Effects wrote: »

It's not just FX Buckley. I pass that junction a lot in the morning and the bike lane is blocked 52% of the time. But the taxi rank just ahead pushes into the cycle lane 72% of the time.

The taxi drivers have a tendency to pull out without looking there. There's always people doing U-turns at that junction too.

There's always vans parked in the lane in the morning going in the opposite direction too.

RebelButtMunch

I'm always bemused when someone starts a thread on getting caught going through lights. It's not like they regularly and predictably change every minute 24 hours a day or anything.....

DavyD_83

I doubt the fine will ever arrive.
I've been stopped and told a fine is on the way a few times over the years, but never received a single one.
Have never seen any real stats, but have always gotten impression that not many cycling violations are actually fillowed through on.
Only ticket I've ever been actually issued was for speeding while driving.

CramCycle

BrokenArrows wrote: »

2 meters, you're a bicycle not a car.

You need to stop on an Amber because you're traveling much slower than a car so could be in the middle of the junction by the time the other side goes green.

You should stop on Amber if it is safe to do so, this is irregardless of being a cyclist or a motorist. There are several slower road users who could be in the middle of a junction who entered legally on green but it turned red before they completed it, the opposing traffic have to expect and anticipate that. Green is not permission to go, it is right of way but if another vehicle is still passing through, they have right of way.

GampDub

OP by the sounds of it you were spot on!

Did similar in a car a number of years ago - ended up in court and was ready to plead my case. Judge didnt even let it get that far, threw it out immediately and advised the Guard that driving through an amber light was not an offence.

If it was not safe to do what you did but by the sounds of it there was no risk to what you did.

Del2005

williestroker1 wrote: »

On a bike? Even if I had eyes in the back of my head they would be covered by my helmet.

Yes on a bike. I ride a motorbike and have these excellent things called mirrors which allow me to see behind even with a full face helmet. Though I still use the live safer when changing lanes.

williestroker1

Del2005 wrote: »

Yes on a bike. I ride a motorbike and have these excellent things called mirrors which allow me to see behind even with a full face helmet. Though I still use the live safer when changing lanes.

I've have yet to come across a bicycle mirror that was any good. A motorbikes handlebars are wider, on a bicycle your arm/body blocks any reliable view. Also a on bicycle mirrors vibrate making them next to useless.
You will not see a bicycle directly behind you with a lifesaver glance.

Del2005

williestroker1 wrote: »

I've have yet to come across a bicycle mirror that was any good. A motorbikes handlebars are wider, on a bicycle your arm/body blocks any reliable view. Also a on bicycle mirrors vibrate making them next to useless.
You will not see a bicycle directly behind you with a lifesaver glance.

I had to buy extensions for my mirrors so that I could see more than my elbows. Even with a bad mirror you'll see something behind. Or just buy one for the helmet.

williestroker1

Del2005 wrote: »

I had to buy extensions for my mirrors so that I could see more than my elbows. Even with a bad mirror you'll see something behind. Or just buy one for the helmet.

I have tried both. The extensions make the mirror vibrate worse. The helmet ones are just as bad. Great if your on smooth concrete, but I'm sure you know our roads a far from smooth rendering them next to useless. Your bike is heavier than a bicycle with shock absorber's.

ShiverinEskimo

williestroker1 wrote: »

BTW it was a pedestrian light with on one waiting to cross.
We really are easy targets.

williestroker1 wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.343656,-6.2699299,3a,75y,208.27h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKPCkRIuL_OZvaFNfKTtTbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This is the junction. I was at the white line, front of the beige car when the light turned amber. Garda car waiting to turn right, where the bus is. Dont think I would have time to shoulder check and stop before going through junction.

That is not just a pedestrian light. That is a traffic light controlled junction incorporating a pedestrian crossing. Could there be anything else you're not remembering correctly? The guard will have his notebook in court with exact details as he saw them from a stationary patrol car. Did you see the patrol car? Anything else you failed to observe? Will you be able to reliably describe the situation in 6 to 8 months time in court given you couldn't even remember the type of junction just a short time after the incident?

GampDub wrote: »

Did similar in a car a number of years ago - ended up in court and was ready to plead my case. Judge didnt even let it get that far, threw it out immediately and advised the Guard that driving through an amber light was not an offence.

The judge was completely incorrect in this case and it is definitely not a precedent.