Mobile phones and other electronic devices in school

freshpopcorn

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Again teachers were not following school policy. I don't know when or where you went to school but things have tightened up considerably.

We have to agree to disagree on the matter.

AndrewJRenko

km79 wrote: »

No child in primary school NEEDS a mobile phone
I don't understand parents some time .
I know there is peer pressure etc but parents need to be parents!

How about 5th or 6th class students who walk or cycle home on their own? Schools should be encouraging or at least facilitating independent travel, and a phone is a reasonable safety measure to give some comfort.

rainbowtrout

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How about 5th or 6th class students who walk or cycle home on their own? Schools should be encouraging or at least facilitating independent travel, and a phone is a reasonable safety measure to give some comfort.

Why is it the school's responsibility to facilitate independent travel? Surely this is the responsibility of the parent? Most 11 or 12 year olds are brought to school by car these days and the ones who are walking are usually living within a mile of the school. They should be well capable of walking/cycling to and from school without the need to carry a mobile phone.

byhookorbycrook

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How about 5th or 6th class students who walk or cycle home on their own? Schools should be encouraging or at least facilitating independent travel, and a phone is a reasonable safety measure to give some comfort.

A device like a Fire Fly phone will do that, but you'll find children won't want them, they want the latest smart phone.

bobbyss

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You wouldn't have a hope of doing that in my class. I'd spot a gap under a copy and have the phone gone before you'd realise it. I do a lot of mileage around the room in 40 minutes. And a lot more teachers would too. You've probably not considered that maybe the teachers in your school just couldn't be bothered enforcing the rule and chose not to see the phones.

Doing the above would be the worst thing you could do where I am. It would immediately lead to a physical confrontation and threats to get it back. Students walk out of class and go to office shouting at principal and demand to call parents. Same parents start shouting and demand you return phone immediately. And to hell with any agreement signed.

Choosing not to see stuff is very much the wise option in some cases and that is not a case of teachers not being bothered. It's a question of choosing your battles.

km79

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

km79 wrote: »

No child in primary school NEEDS a mobile phone
I don't understand parents some time .
I know there is peer pressure etc but parents need to be parents!

How about 5th or 6th class students who walk or cycle home on their own? Schools should be encouraging or at least facilitating independent travel, and a phone is a reasonable safety measure to give some comfort.

My child is in primary school
I am his parent
I am responsible for him and his travel to and from school
I choose not to let him walk or cycle home
Some parents will choose otherwise which is their choice and responsibility

IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SCHOOL
And I have no idea why anybody would think or suggest otherwise

Schools are not travel companies .
And even travel companies .........If a bus company transports your child to/from school they are responsible for bringing them from point A to point B .
If the bus stops 250m from your house so you expect the driver to escort them from the bus to the door ? If you are not home should he babysit them until it suits you ? What about the other children on the bus .............

It’s no wonder people are so reluctant to get involved in coaching sports teams etc
Too much hassle /risk in the current climate

I’m a parent . I make decisions on behalf my children. I take responsibility for those decisions .

rainbowtrout

bobbyss wrote: »

Doing the above would be the worst thing you could do where I am. It would immediately lead to a physical confrontation and threats to get it back. Students walk out of class and go to office shouting at principal and demand to call parents. Same parents start shouting and demand you return phone immediately. And to hell with any agreement signed.

Choosing not to see stuff is very much the wise option in some cases and that is not a case of teachers not being bothered. It's a question of choosing your battles.

Well it depends on the school. Discipline is good in my school, hence the lack of major issues with phones.

km79

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How about 5th or 6th class students who walk or cycle home on their own? Schools should be encouraging or at least facilitating independent travel, and a phone is a reasonable safety measure to give some comfort.

A device like a Fire Fly phone will do that, but you'll find children won't want them, they want the latest smart phone.

They can want all they want
If a parent is that worried and the Fire Fly gives them piece of mind then that’s what they get
Parents are the adults . Make the decisions.
Start parenting

Drives me daft as ye might have gathered

“Everyone else in my class has one “

“ You are 10/11/12/13 years old you don’t need one “

Case closed . Life goes on .
If they lose “friends “ Cos they are not on Snapchat at that age then they are better off without them

I think I may be old fashioned despite being a technophile !

km79

rainbowtrout wrote: »

bobbyss wrote: »

Doing the above would be the worst thing you could do where I am. It would immediately lead to a physical confrontation and threats to get it back. Students walk out of class and go to office shouting at principal and demand to call parents. Same parents start shouting and demand you return phone immediately. And to hell with any agreement signed.

Choosing not to see stuff is very much the wise option in some cases and that is not a case of teachers not being bothered. It's a question of choosing your battles.

Well it depends on the school. Discipline is good in my school, hence the lack of major issues with phones.

Same

If taking a phone leads to a physical confrontation and the principal being shouted at then the problem is bigger than mobile phones !

bobbyss

km79 wrote: »

Same

If taking a phone leads to a physical confrontation and the principal being shouted at then the problem is bigger than mobile phones !

In fairness I am not in a mainstream school. Everyone has different ways to approach their own problems which vary from place to place.

AndrewJRenko

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

A device like a Fire Fly phone will do that, but you'll find children won't want them, they want the latest smart phone.

Probably, so maybe the school can play a role in educating parents on the strengths and weaknesses of the various options?

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Why is it the school's responsibility to facilitate independent travel? Surely this is the responsibility of the parent? Most 11 or 12 year olds are brought to school by car these days and the ones who are walking are usually living within a mile of the school. They should be well capable of walking/cycling to and from school without the need to carry a mobile phone.

Yes, your description of the situation is accurate, and is probably something that needs changing for so many reasons - emissions, public health, traffic chaos. The more the school can do to facilitate independent travel, the better for student outcomes (yes, there is research about better student outcomes for those that walk or cycle), and the better for the community at large.



The school can facilitate this, or at least not be a barrier to this, by ensuring that kids have access to phones on their commute if the parent thinks that's appropriate. When mine were in primary, the school allowed the older kids to lodge their phone with the secretary on arrival and pick it up on departure. There were no dramas about who cracked the screen or who lost the phone.

km79 wrote: »

My child is in primary school
I am his parent
I am responsible for him and his travel to and from school
I choose not to let him walk or cycle home
Some parents will choose otherwise which is their choice and responsibility

IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SCHOOL
And I have no idea why anybody would think or suggest otherwise

Schools are not travel companies .
And even travel companies .........If a bus company transports your child to/from school they are responsible for bringing them from point A to point B .
If the bus stops 250m from your house so you expect the driver to escort them from the bus to the door ? If you are not home should he babysit them until it suits you ? What about the other children on the bus .............

It’s no wonder people are so reluctant to get involved in coaching sports teams etc
Too much hassle /risk in the current climate

I’m a parent . I make decisions on behalf my children. I take responsibility for those decisions .

It is everything to do with the school if a school policy bans children from having a mobile phone for use on their commute.

rainbowtrout

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The school can facilitate this, or at least not be a barrier to this, by ensuring that kids have access to phones on their commute if the parent thinks that's appropriate. When mine were in primary, the school allowed the older kids to lodge their phone with the secretary on arrival and pick it up on departure. There were no dramas about who cracked the screen or who lost the phone.


It is everything to do with the school if a school policy bans children from having a mobile phone for use on their commute.

Any parent with an ounce of cop on, if they really want their child to have access to a phone walking to school, would tell their child to put the phone in their school bag, switched off, and to leave it there for the entire day.

We have a ban, but we are also well aware that the vast majority of students in the school probably have their phone with them. Once they are not using it in school then it's not a problem. If we see it we take it.

km79

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

A device like a Fire Fly phone will do that, but you'll find children won't want them, they want the latest smart phone.

Probably, so maybe the school can play a role in educating parents on the strengths and weaknesses of the various options?

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Why is it the school's responsibility to facilitate independent travel? Surely this is the responsibility of the parent? Most 11 or 12 year olds are brought to school by car these days and the ones who are walking are usually living within a mile of the school. They should be well capable of walking/cycling to and from school without the need to carry a mobile phone.

Yes, your description of the situation is accurate, and is probably something that needs changing for so many reasons - emissions, public health, traffic chaos. The more the school can do to facilitate independent travel, the better for student outcomes (yes, there is research about better student outcomes for those that walk or cycle), and the better for the community at large.



The school can facilitate this, or at least not be a barrier to this, by ensuring that kids have access to phones on their commute if the parent thinks that's appropriate. When mine were in primary, the school allowed the older kids to lodge their phone with the secretary on arrival and pick it up on departure. There were no dramas about who cracked the screen or who lost the phone.

km79 wrote: »

My child is in primary school
I am his parent
I am responsible for him and his travel to and from school
I choose not to let him walk or cycle home
Some parents will choose otherwise which is their choice and responsibility

IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SCHOOL
And I have no idea why anybody would think or suggest otherwise

Schools are not travel companies .
And even travel companies .........If a bus company transports your child to/from school they are responsible for bringing them from point A to point B .
If the bus stops 250m from your house so you expect the driver to escort them from the bus to the door ? If you are not home should he babysit them until it suits you ? What about the other children on the bus .............

It’s no wonder people are so reluctant to get involved in coaching sports teams etc
Too much hassle /risk in the current climate

I’m a parent . I make decisions on behalf my children. I take responsibility for those decisions .

It is everything to do with the school if a school policy bans children from having a mobile phone for use on their commute.

Absolutely nobody said that their school policy bans children from having a mobile phone for use on their commute
Read back through the thread

I stated I did not allow my child to have a phone in primary school despite peer pressure as I felt/feel as a parent it is absolutely unnecessary at that age and does more harm than good (social media etc )
I live in a very rural area. We both work. Neither of my children have had phones in primary school.
We haven’t lost either of them yet !

It’s a huge issue and some people just want to pass the responsibility on
“Everyone else in the class has one “
This could be the child or the parent speaking ........

AndrewJRenko

km79 wrote: »

Absolutely nobody said that their school policy bans children from having a mobile phone for use on their commute
Read back through the thread

I stated I did not allow my child to have a phone in primary school despite peer pressure as I felt/feel as a parent it is absolutely unnecessary at that age and does more harm than good (social media etc )
I live in a very rural area. We both work. Neither of my children have had phones in primary school.
We haven’t lost either of them yet !

If students are banned from being in possession of a phone, then they are banned from having one on their commute, unless there is a facility to check their phone in/out. Yes, keeping it out of sight in the bag may well work, subject to security not being a problem.

km79

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

km79 wrote: »

Absolutely nobody said that their school policy bans children from having a mobile phone for use on their commute
Read back through the thread

I stated I did not allow my child to have a phone in primary school despite peer pressure as I felt/feel as a parent it is absolutely unnecessary at that age and does more harm than good (social media etc )
I live in a very rural area. We both work. Neither of my children have had phones in primary school.
We haven’t lost either of them yet !

If students are banned from being in possession of a phone, then they are banned from having one on their commute, unless there is a facility to check their phone in/out. Yes, keeping it out of sight in the bag may well work, subject to security not being a problem.

School policy
On school grounds

Schools are not travel companies

rainbowtrout

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If students are banned from being in possession of a phone, then they are banned from having one on their commute, unless there is a facility to check their phone in/out. Yes, keeping it out of sight in the bag may well work, subject to security not being a problem.

No, they are not banned from having one on their commute. A school can't enforce its ban outside school hours. Again, what exactly does a student need to have a phone for on their commute (which is likely to be less than a mile)?

They can put the phone in their bag on the way to school and leave it there.

There are plenty of things banned by schools: non-uniform clothing, piercings, other types of jewellery, phones, cigarettes. It does not stop students bringing these things on their commute and putting them in their school bags/pockets before coming on to the school premises. On the point of clothing and jewellery, parents see their kids going off to school in a hoodie in the morning and don't say 'you can't wear that walking to school as it's banned in school'. It just doesn't happen.

AndrewJRenko

km79 wrote: »

School policy
On school grounds

Schools are not travel companies

What is the student who needs a phone for their commute supposed to do with their phone during the school day that doesn't involve bringing it onto school grounds?

spurious

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What is the student who needs a phone for their commute supposed to do with their phone during the school day that doesn't involve bringing it onto school grounds?

The same as others do with their cigarettes. Leave them in the bag and don't use them in class.

km79

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What is the student who needs a phone for their commute supposed to do with their phone during the school day that doesn't involve bringing it onto school grounds?

Are these primary students getting an Uber that they need a phone for their commute?

To answer your question
Depending on the wording of the schools policy they can either not turn it on or not use it . They will be safe enough then!

Back to After Hours with yourself and Fresh popcorn. Should have checked that earlier before wasting my time responding

evolving_doors

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What is the student who needs a phone for their commute supposed to do with their phone during the school day that doesn't involve bringing it onto school grounds?

Stick it in their pocket.

I think the issue at hand here is the use of phones within school.
I don't think anyone is advocating collecting phones in the morning, that's just cumbersome and asking for trouble and more work.
Also, I don't think anyone is enforcing students leave phones at home (same as point above).

Parents/student sign the policy.
If caught then confiscate.
Break times are debatable.

_Kaiser_

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What is the student who needs a phone for their commute supposed to do with their phone during the school day that doesn't involve bringing it onto school grounds?

How did we manage 20/25 years ago?

Seriously, it's not that long ago and we managed to get to/from school just fine before mobile phones were everywhere. Just be at place X at time Y. Simple.

My little fella is almost 7 now but well able to negotiate his mother's phone for YouTube and Pokemon for years now. I don't mind that so much as it's supervised but I really do not look forward to a few years from now when it'll be "expected" he has his own - and even if you say no that makes him a potential target from other kids whose parents will have no problem with the idea.

Thoughts of things like WhatsApp, Snapchat, Facebook and other social media sites and the potential for bullying and intimidation generally really do worry me because the teachers don't have the capacity to monitor it (and it's not really their job), and there will always be one who finds the way around any potential firewall blocking after which it'll be all over the school in hours.

I'm really not looking forward to the next few years.. And I say that as a senior IT manager myself who's familiar with the technology - I can only imagine how it must concern less tech aware parents trying to protect their kids from this crap.. It's bad enough on this very site at times and we're all supposedly adults!

Blaizes

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

How did we manage 20/25 years ago?

Seriously, it's not that long ago and we managed to get to/from school just fine before mobile phones were everywhere. Just be at place X at time Y. Simple.

My little fella is almost 7 now but well able to negotiate his mother's phone for YouTube and Pokemon for years now. I don't mind that so much as it's supervised but I really do not look forward to a few years from now when it'll be "expected" he has his own - and even if you say no that makes him a potential target from other kids whose parents will have no problem with the idea.

Thoughts of things like WhatsApp, Snapchat, Facebook and other social media sites and the potential for bullying and intimidation generally really do worry me because the teachers don't have the capacity to monitor it (and it's not really their job), and there will always be one who finds the way around any potential firewall blocking after which it'll be all over the school in hours.

I'm really not looking forward to the next few years.. And I say that as a senior IT manager myself who's familiar with the technology - I can only imagine how it must concern less tech aware parents trying to protect their kids from this crap.. It's bad enough on this very site at times and we're all supposedly adults!

You are clearly a conscientious parent and hopefully there are more parents out there like you who are thinking about the issues around mobile phones and what their child could potentially be exposed to. It's a minefield and giving children and teenagers free reign to navigate their way through the internet is not a good idea imo. I started the thread because of my own concern about mobiles inside of school but of course the issue is much broader and it's very much parental control as well as what a school can do re mobile phone policy. But even with parental control and good school policy what if they go to their friends house and their friend has unsupervised phone access by a lax parent seeing no harm in it or not having the technical knowledge as you say to protect their child .And then there is also the whole issue of online bullying.

My own kids are in primary and when they reach secondary no doubt the mobile phone issue will arise and I have to say I am not looking forward to it but I will hold out for as long as I can and as I see fit. I have some nostalgia for the days before phones because it was much easier for young people to grow up than it is today. All this technology has a downside.

_Kaiser_

Blaizes wrote: »

You are clearly a conscientious parent and hopefully there are more parents out there like you who are thinking about the issues around mobile phones and what their child could potentially be exposed to. It's a minefield and giving children and teenagers free reign to navigate their way through the internet is not a good idea imo. I started the thread because of my own concern about mobiles inside of school but of course the issue is much broader and it's very much parental control as well as what a school can do re mobile phone policy. But even with parental control and good school policy what if they go to their friends house and their friend has unsupervised phone access by a lax parent seeing no harm in it or not having the technical knowledge as you say to protect their child .And then there is also the whole issue of online bullying.

My own kids are in primary and when they reach secondary no doubt the mobile phone issue will arise and I have to say I am not looking forward to it but I will hold out for as long as I can and as I see fit. I have some nostalgia for the days before phones because it was much easier for young people to grow up than it is today. All this technology has a downside.

Most definitely - and not just in regards to kids and teenagers. The likes of Twitter, Facebook and YouTube commentators are a very destructive influence in many cases. What 30 years ago would have been dismissed as a few cranks, now goes "viral" and picked up by formerly legitimate news agencies struggling to fill virtual column space, and suddenly it's a real issue for discussion offline as well and is seeping into our everyday lives - often where it has no place given that a lot of it comes from the US which is a hugely different (and divided) culture in many key ways.

It doesn't help therefore that many of these parents are themselves hooked on this stuff and so don't think about or realise the consequences for their kids who are even less prepared for it.

Plus everything is recorded and uploaded - if not by the person themselves then their friends "for the laugh". That's all well and good until 5/10/15 years later someone is trawling through their social media vetting them for a job. Even blocking access isn't a guarantee anymore as it could be interpreted as hiding something. People are "expected" to live online - socially, financially, retail, even from a customer support perspective.

Sorry, I know I'm way off on a tangent here but it really is a serious issue that doesn't get anywhere near enough mainstream attention IMO. I'm in my 40s now so my first online steps were with the advice of "be careful, don't take it too seriously, and use common sense" so I view it all as a tool or source of entertainment (and don't do Facebook or twitter beyond as a news source in the case of the latter), but these points of advice seem to be completely gone nowadays.

I'd go so far as to suggest that we need to be teaching kids in school how to deal with the online world and it's pitfalls (maybe that happens these days?). It's no longer enough to be competent in Windows, Office and some programming language.. It's becoming a vital skill.

evolving_doors

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Most definitely - and not just in regards to kids and teenagers. The likes of Twitter, Facebook and YouTube commentators are a very destructive influence in many cases. What 30 years ago would have been dismissed as a few cranks, now goes "viral" and picked up by formerly legitimate news agencies struggling to fill virtual column space, and suddenly it's a real issue for discussion offline as well and is seeping into our everyday lives - often where it has no place given that a lot of it comes from the US which is a hugely different (and divided) culture in many key ways.

It doesn't help therefore that many of these parents are themselves hooked on this stuff and so don't think about or realise the consequences for their kids who are even less prepared for it.

Plus everything is recorded and uploaded - if not by the person themselves then their friends "for the laugh". That's all well and good until 5/10/15 years later someone is trawling through their social media vetting them for a job. Even blocking access isn't a guarantee anymore as it could be interpreted as hiding something. People are "expected" to live online - socially, financially, retail, even from a customer support perspective.

Sorry, I know I'm way off on a tangent here but it really is a serious issue that doesn't get anywhere near enough mainstream attention IMO. I'm in my 40s now so my first online steps were with the advice of "be careful, don't take it too seriously, and use common sense" so I view it all as a tool or source of entertainment (and don't do Facebook or twitter beyond as a news source in the case of the latter), but these points of advice seem to be completely gone nowadays.

I'd go so far as to suggest that we need to be teaching kids in school how to deal with the online world and it's pitfalls (maybe that happens these days?). It's no longer enough to be competent in Windows, Office and some programming language.. It's becoming a vital skill.

This is done in our school during -deep breath- anti-bullying week, safer internet week, 1st year induction, digital literacy class, SPHE, religion, form time, parents talks , TY talks, mental health awareness week, regular school debates, topics for English essays and comprehensions, nearly every assembly.. I'm probably missing some.

km79

evolving_doors wrote: »

This is done in our school during -deep breath- anti-bullying week, safer internet week, 1st year induction, digital literacy class, SPHE, religion, form time, parents talks , TY talks, mental health awareness week, regular school debates, topics for English essays and comprehensions, nearly every assembly.. I'm probably missing some.

Wellbeing ..........

evolving_doors

km79 wrote: »

Wellbeing ..........

How could I have forgotten wellbeing

Blaizes

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Most definitely - and not just in regards to kids and teenagers. The likes of Twitter, Facebook and YouTube commentators are a very destructive influence in many cases. What 30 years ago would have been dismissed as a few cranks, now goes "viral" and picked up by formerly legitimate news agencies struggling to fill virtual column space, and suddenly it's a real issue for discussion offline as well and is seeping into our everyday lives - often where it has no place given that a lot of it comes from the US which is a hugely different (and divided) culture in many key ways.

It doesn't help therefore that many of these parents are themselves hooked on this stuff and so don't think about or realise the consequences for their kids who are even less prepared for it.

Plus everything is recorded and uploaded - if not by the person themselves then their friends "for the laugh". That's all well and good until 5/10/15 years later someone is trawling through their social media vetting them for a job. Even blocking access isn't a guarantee anymore as it could be interpreted as hiding something. People are "expected" to live online - socially, financially, retail, even from a customer support perspective.

Sorry, I know I'm way off on a tangent here but it really is a serious issue that doesn't get anywhere near enough mainstream attention IMO. I'm in my 40s now so my first online steps were with the advice of "be careful, don't take it too seriously, and use common sense" so I view it all as a tool or source of entertainment (and don't do Facebook or twitter beyond as a news source in the case of the latter), but these points of advice seem to be completely gone nowadays.

I'd go so far as to suggest that we need to be teaching kids in school how to deal with the online world and it's pitfalls (maybe that happens these days?). It's no longer enough to be competent in Windows, Office and some programming language.. It's becoming a vital skill.

Well it's hard to know what to do but yes education definitely and teaching kids about internet safety.Technology is moving so fast and as this isn't going to change it's just trying to teach kids about the benefits as well as the dangers I suppose.I was thinking about an online game or even a board game ( for younger kids) where they could explore online life using the analogy of a big city with all its good as well as not so good parts.Probably these kinds of games exist online already.

A quick google shows they have lots of internet safety games, tried one and it's not bad. Think I will use start using these with my own kids at home to develop their awareness at least around some of the issues.Probably too late when the teenage hormones kick in!