How do you protect yourself on two wheels?

Crock Rock

I got into cycling lately after being an absolute prick of a man towards our two-wheeled friends beforehand. I have seen the error of my ways and have repented. I hope all is forgiven :pac:

• I wear a high-vis (I know this is a touchy subject, but I just feel safer. I'm not trying to persuade others to do so.
• I have a light front and back which are on always, even at daylight.
• I wear a helmet.
• I'm thinking of investing in a cheap camera.

Eamonnator

Say three Our Fathers and ten Hail Marys.
Your sins are forgiven, go in peace.

tommythecat

Crock Rock wrote: »

I got into cycling lately after being an absolute prick of a man towards our two-wheeled friends beforehand. I have seen the error of my ways and have repented. I hope all is forgiven :pac:

• I wear a high-vis (I know this is a touchy subject, but I just feel safer. I'm not trying to persuade others to do so.
• I have a light front and back which are on always, even at daylight.
• I wear a helmet.
• I'm thinking of investing in a cheap camera.

Take the lane when you need to if there is not enough room to pass you safely without crossing the white line.

Always keep far enough out that the driver behind cannot say they didn’t see you. Always make them pull out to overtake you. This usually stops close passes (usually)

Leave at least 1metre between you and parked cars so you don’t get doored.

jjpep

Crock Rock wrote: »

I got into cycling lately after being an absolute prick of a man towards our two-wheeled friends beforehand. I have seen the error of my ways and have repented. I hope all is forgiven :pac:

• I wear a high-vis (I know this is a touchy subject, but I just feel safer. I'm not trying to persuade others to do so.
• I have a light front and back which are on always, even at daylight.
• I wear a helmet.
• I'm thinking of investing in a cheap camera.

More important than of the above IMHO (except lights at night maybe) is your positioning on the road. On the phone so can't link anything but if you go on YouTube and look at videos about primary position and taking the lane when needed. Also motorbike safety videos about the same as well. Same principles.

RobertFoster

Don't cycle in the gutter.
Have the confidence to take the lane when you need to.
Be predictable.
Read the road for both yourself and other roads users around you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BapFZkvQHmY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BapFZkvQHmY

ted1

Crock Rock wrote: »

I got into cycling lately after being an absolute prick of a man towards our two-wheeled friends beforehand. I have seen the error of my ways and have repented. I hope all is forgiven :pac:

• I wear a high-vis (I know this is a touchy subject, but I just feel safer. I'm not trying to persuade others to do so.
• I have a light front and back which are on always, even at daylight.
• I wear a helmet.
• I'm thinking of investing in a cheap camera.

Best protection is good lane positioning

Never go inside a bus or Hgv or even LGV. On a roundabout take the lane so you can’t get cut off.
At lights pull up and put yourself in front of the first vehicle, when the lights change then move in. This ensures the driver sees you and stops you being put in blind spots. Read the road and stick your arm out looking over your shoulder before you move out in to the road to avoid pot holes , parked cars etc

com1

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-home&source=hp&ei=nf5dXO61N5TfxgOHporgBw&q=cycling+machine+gun&oq=cycling+machine+gun&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.3..0i22i30j33i160.3190.17948..20472...0.0..0.114.1516.17j2......0....1.......5..41j46i131i275j0j46j0i131.ovtvykFS6gw#imgrc=yoX-jOsZw8cd1M:

When turning right at a T keep way out and signal intent before hand, thinking of it as taking the racing line, you might get beeps but it will stop you getting squeezed/pinched on the turn. Move back in when the road straightens out and give a thumbs up if the driver didn't beep you.

tomasrojo

Personally, I think the most important thing is to make all your frequent routes as quiet as possible. Avoid multi-lane roundabouts and slip roads as much as possible. Often you can go through housing estates, for example, where someone in a car can't.

Even if the quieter option is a bit longer, it's worth it; even if just for your mental health.

EDIT: People here are usually very obliging if anyone wants advice on the quietest route between two points.

Mint Sauce

A mini pump close at hand...

Seriously though, off top of head, cycle with confidence, and assertion, this is different from aggressively, dont allow self to be squezed against the kerb, or other street/road furniture. Read the road, position your self and indicate your intentions early. Use the advance stop lines where available, will defo give a advantage when getting away from the lights. Cycle lanes are not aways the best places to be, the most unkept part of the road. Dont take the inside of HGV or buses, they will not be able to see you.

bilbot79

Don't Garmin have a rear radar that indicates a vehicle is coming close to you without you having to look back?

Beasty

I've been recommended stabilisers....

Mint Sauce

bilbot79 wrote: »

Don't Garmin have a rear radar that indicates a vehicle is coming close to you without you having to look back?

I would rather use my own senses. Your best radar.

CramCycle

Nothing wrong with your post Crock. Do you have something that is particularly bothering you so far?
Camera won't protect you, just a way to have a witness if something does happen.

CramCycle

Beasty wrote: »

I've been recommended stabilisers....

I'm surprised your health, cycling and any other insurance hasn't insisted on it as a requirement to you getting on a bike.

Beasty

CramCycle wrote: »

I'm surprised your health, cycling and any other insurance hasn't insisted on it as a requirement to you getting on a bike.

They think anything else I might do is too risky - they can better quantify any exposure with cycling. Of course it's reflected in the premiums. Had one at 6 and a half grand to pay the other week. Worth every cent mind!!

what?

Hangover from motorbike days, lifesavers
Quick turn of the head to look at 3 to 6 o'clock position (and further back) before any change of position

Type 17

what? wrote: »

Hangover from motorbike days, lifesavers
Quick turn of the head to look at 3 to 6 o'clock position (and further back) before any change of position

Very true, and you should do it when approaching parked cars or other reasons to move right (even if you know what's behind you from a recent look-back), so that you catch the eye of the driver behind you - if they see you looking, they'll incorporate you into their thoughts, whereas if you just move right, they may not notice you until you('re both) in the pinch point. Think of it as social engineering. Hand signals work the same way - I sometimes use them when I'm in a lane that is going that way anyway.

tomasrojo

Cyclecraft by John Franklin is a pretty exhaustive look at various techniques and approaches to minimise risk. It's available on the public library system, I think.

I have a scan of an old Galway Cycling Campaign leaflet that summarises a few keys idea from it, if you want it.

ED E

tomasrojo wrote: »

Cyclecraft by John Franklin is a pretty exhaustive look at various techniques and approaches to minimise risk. It's available on the public library system, I think.

A controversial figure. He's correct in what he says, but his policies are "adversarial" in a way.

tomasrojo

He's a lot milder than John Forester, who is completely uncompromising in his hostility to cycling-specific infrastructure.

Franklin's basic premise on infrastructure is, more or less, that it's no substitute for learning to use the road, and that much(*) infrastructure in inferior to using the road. He does say, at least in his later editions of Cyclecraft, that Dutch infrastructure is well designed and suitable for use, though I can't remember the exact quote.

The book itself, or at least the two editions I have, steer largely clear of opining on infrastructure, and is more about how to use the UK road network as it currently is, rather than how he'd hope it to be. It's applicable to Irish roads as well, given the lazy adoption of a lot of UK designs here.

On the other side of the balance, he's a well-respected figure as well as a controversial one. It's possible to be both, and his advice on how to deal with British roads isn't the core of the criticism; it's that he's held to have retarded the development of Dutch-style infrastructure in the UK. Perhaps that's true; I'm no expert, and I haven't followed it closely enough to opine too vigorously. He certainly is not a fan of infrastructure, both as infrastructure currently is, and even to the notion that cyclists should be separated from motorised traffic, so the criticism is at least plausible.

(*) He might go so far as to say "most" or "nearly all", which would be going too far, I think.

Roadtoad

Don't be too proud/cocky to alight, look and wait when crossing slip roads, especially exit slips. Or take the exit slip, up to the roundabout and return to the main road via the entry slip road. (I'm particularly thinking the N7 near Dublin).
After that, Yellow, multiple lights, and clothing with high quality reflectors.

tomasrojo

The reviews here are over 70% 5-star reviews, for example:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclecraft-complete-enjoyable-cycling-children-ebook/dp/B00NEOVI9Q

ED E

tomasrojo wrote: »

He's a lot milder than John Forester, who is completely uncompromising in his hostility to cycling-specific infrastructure.

Ooops, think I mixed up the two John Fs :pac:

tomasrojo

Roadtoad wrote: »

Don't be too proud/cocky to alight, look and wait when crossing slip roads, especially exit slips. Or take the exit slip, up to the roundabout and return to the main road via the entry slip road. (I'm particularly thinking the N7 near Dublin).
After that, Yellow, multiple lights, and clothing with high quality reflectors.

Becoming a pedestrian briefly is the better part of valour on some roads too.

I'd favour putting reflectors on the bike over putting them on your person, as they're more fully in the cone of dipped headlights, but reflectors on clothing do add a bit of "top" to your image. If the driver is bothering to look in your direction, of course.

tomasrojo

ED E wrote: »

Ooops, think I mixed up the two John Fs :pac:

Well, the UK one is disliked by a lot of infrastructure bloggers. As I said, perhaps with some justification. But he seems to be a helpful and likeable guy. While Forester is the most prickly individual imaginable.

CrankyHaus

Any advice on dealing with two lane roadways?

I take the Finglas Rd. In each direction it has a bus lane, a driving lane and a mainly footpath mounted cycle lane of poor quality with a number of places where you are exposed to crossing traffic.

I took the bus lane for some time. Vehicles routinely squeeze past with inches to spare. If they can't pass they beep, pass on the outside lane and then swing back in with their rear ends sweeping towards me so i have to swerve to avoid them. Complaints to Dublin Bus about its drivers doing this are simply ignored.

I ended up using the cycle lane but it's less than ideal and I feel like an accident on it is only a matter of time. Is there anything I can do to safely use the bus lane?

tomasrojo

If the footpath cycle track is terrible, I use the bus lane, but I keep an eye out for buses approaching from behind and pull in to let them past. It's mostly so they can't do a punishment pass on me, as you've noted.

The old Finglas Road is appalling. I had to do a bit of work around there for a brief period. I ended up using another road. The cycle track was pretty much unusable, because, as you said, of traffic crossing it at frequent junctions.

AndrewJRenko

Take the lane, lots of over the shoulder 'livesaver' checks and

Nil Carborundum Illegitimi

homer911

Be mindful of the road conditions, both regular and occasional - position of potholes to avoid, areas of road or cycle path prone to frost, sections of road prone to flooding (avoid a soaking from passing cars). Also be mindful of greasy roads after prolonged dry spells after rain.

Ferris

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Nil Carborundum Illegitimi

Like this....

Lumen

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Nil Carborundum Illegitimi

Nothing grinds bastards?

Type 17

“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”?

(Nil illegitimus corborandum)

droidus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Any advice on dealing with two lane roadways?

I take the Finglas Rd. In each direction it has a bus lane, a driving lane and a mainly footpath mounted cycle lane of poor quality with a number of places where you are exposed to crossing traffic.

I took the bus lane for some time. Vehicles routinely squeeze past with inches to spare. If they can't pass they beep, pass on the outside lane and then swing back in with their rear ends sweeping towards me so i have to swerve to avoid them. Complaints to Dublin Bus about its drivers doing this are simply ignored.

I ended up using the cycle lane but it's less than ideal and I feel like an accident on it is only a matter of time. Is there anything I can do to safely use the bus lane?

I had a similar experience and changed my route to go round Hart's corner/Botanic road/Glasnevin hill. Slightly longer route but much quieter and less perilous. Might be worth trying if at all possible.

Alternatively, stay on the cycle paths when going uphill out of Tolka Valley and take the lane when going downhill in the bus lane.

blackbox

Crock Rock wrote: »

I got into cycling lately after being an absolute prick of a man towards our two-wheeled friends beforehand. I have seen the error of my ways and have repented. I hope all is forgiven :pac:

• I wear a high-vis (I know this is a touchy subject, but I just feel safer. I'm not trying to persuade others to do so.
• I have a light front and back which are on always, even at daylight.
• I wear a helmet.
• I'm thinking of investing in a cheap camera.

I'm a regular driver and an occasional cyclist - mostly in rural areas and in daylight. From my experience as a driver I wouldn't feel as safe cycling (or walking) without a hi-vis vest on country roads,

I personally think the type of bike makes a difference to my safety. I believe that I have much better all round vision when cycling an upright type bike rather than a racer with dropped handlebars - albeit at the expense of greater wind resistance at higher speeds (or lower speeds for the same effort). Obviously if you're cycling competitively a racer is a no-brainer.

CrankyHaus

droidus wrote: »

I had a similar experience and changed my route to go round Hart's corner/Botanic road/Glasnevin hill. Slightly longer route but much quieter and less perilous. Might be worth trying if at all possible.

Alternatively, stay on the cycle paths when going uphill out of Tolka Valley and take the lane when going downhill in the bus lane.

Thanks, alternate routes is an obvious one that I just didn't think of. I had a look just now. The best in terms of distance is to take the Royal Canal Way from Summerhill to just past Broombridge. Does anyone know what condition this route is in and how many scaldies need to be dodged on it?

Skrynesaver

I prefer the North Circular, Belvedere Place and Whitworth Rd and then on to the canal or versa vice.

From there it's fine in the winter but starts to get a bit off putting as the sun comes out and flagon weather is upon us, that said, I've never had any grief on that stretch.

The surface is fine until the railway bridge before Broombridge station when it starts to get a little bumpy but once you cross the old Ratoath rd the surface is grand again.

Lumen

Type 17 wrote: »

“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”?

(Nil illegitimus corborandum)

Notwithstanding the irony of debating mock latin, that would be "Illegitimi non carborundum". Nil = nothing, non = not.

CramCycle

Lumen wrote: »

Notwithstanding the irony of debating mock latin, that would be "Illegitimi non carborundum". Nil = nothing, non = not.

While we are at it, carborundum is not Latin AFAIK

tomasrojo

It has its own Wikipedia page,of course:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum

Taxuser1

Crock Rock wrote: »

I got into cycling lately after being an absolute prick of a man towards our two-wheeled friends beforehand. I have seen the error of my ways and have repented. I hope all is forgiven :pac:

• I wear a high-vis (I know this is a touchy subject, but I just feel safer. I'm not trying to persuade others to do so.
• I have a light front and back which are on always, even at daylight.
• I wear a helmet.
• I'm thinking of investing in a cheap camera.

Everyone is giving advice on what to do on the road but can you actually ride a bike safely? Should you be near a road?

What I mean is, can you look left or right behind you without wobbling off course. Can you clip in without looking down. How's your balance?

If you're new to cycling maybe for your own sake work on your bike skill. You could start with figures of 8s in your estate or an industrial park. Or practice moving off safely , clipping in, clipping out, looking back, taking a cycling bottle out, taking food out, switching a bottle between hands, placing a bottle down. Have you cycled in the dark?

tomasrojo

Taxuser1 wrote: »

Everyone is giving advice on what to do on the road but can you actually ride a bike safely? Should you be near a road?

What I mean is, can you look left or right behind you without wobbling off course. Can you clip in without looking down. How's your balance?

If you're new to cycling maybe for your own sake work on your bike skill. You could start with figures of 8s in your estate or an industrial park. Or practice moving off safely , clipping in, clipping out, looking back, taking a cycling bottle out, taking food out, switching a bottle between hands, placing a bottle down. Have you cycled in the dark?

I have to say, I assumed the OP was primarily a commuting cyclist so I didn't really think of bottles and clipless pedals and all that.

Taxuser1

tomasrojo wrote: »

I have to say, I assumed the OP was primarily a commuting cyclist so I didn't really think of bottles and clipless pedals and all that.

Bottles were mentioned in the context of practicing balance on a bike, commuting or otherwise. it's a brilliant exercise to focus on keeping a straight line while multitasking or being distracted.

tomasrojo

Fair enough. I thought you were envisioning the OP training and doing long spins or something like that. To be fair, maybe that's what he or she has in mind.

Lumen

blackbox wrote: »

I'm a regular driver and an occasional cyclist - mostly in rural areas and in daylight. From my experience as a driver I wouldn't feel as safe cycling (or walking) without a hi-vis vest on country roads,

Bike lights are much more useful than hi vis when walking on a country road at night, as they can be bounced off the road surface so that you can be seen around corners.

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

Bike lights are much more useful than hi vis when walking on a country road at night, as they can be bounced off the road surface so that you can be seen around corners.

Especially now we basically can have hand-held photon-cannons.

Here, I got you a jacket with some reflective stripes.
Now you have $300 million and 70.

Crock Rock

Taxuser1 wrote: »

Everyone is giving advice on what to do on the road but can you actually ride a bike safely? Should you be near a road?

What I mean is, can you look left or right behind you without wobbling off course. Can you clip in without looking down. How's your balance?

Of course I can Why wouldn't I be able to?

tomasrojo wrote: »

I have to say, I assumed the OP was primarily a commuting cyclist so I didn't really think of bottles and clipless pedals and all that.

Nope, just a leisure cyclist, my commute to work is 21 km (a good chunk of which is on a motorway). It'd take a while to build up the level of fitness to do that journey.

Crock Rock

I started wearing a high-vis recently. Here's why. I was cycling on a roundabout close to where I live, it's a bitch of a roundabout where cars "cut the corners" of the roundabout if you know what I mean :P
Basically, cars in the right lane seem (for some reason) sometimes to swerve into the left lane and cars in the left lane swerve into the hard shoulder.

I was cycling in the hard shoulder. It's hard to miss a 171 cm, 71 kg man with a blue helmet and strong LEDs front and back in a white t-shirt. It was during the day btw.

A car swerved into the hard shoulder as I was in it and clipped with the wing mirrors against my handlebars and I wobbled. I regained my balance. A girl in her early 20's immediately behind pulled in to see if I was OK and offered to put the bike in her boot and drive me wherever I was going. So happy for the offer but I was happy to continue cycling and thanked her profusely for coming to my aid.

At work the next day I told the story at the breakfast table, there were 6 other people at the table. One of them asked "did you have your high vis on?", I said "No". He replied, "Well, you would have been seen and they wouldn't have entered the hard shoulder if you were wearing a high vis". I tried to argue that drivers always swerve in and out and lazily use the roundabout, but others at the table just kept nodding and agreeing with him saying, "yeah, you should have had your high vis".

No matter how much I insisted that they should be holding their own lane, wouldn't sink in. They said if I was hit, it would be considered a mitigating factor in court and the judge would rule in favour of the driver or at the very most 50:50. So I started wearing a high vis.


Here's the round about. Can someone with better knowledge of how things work embed the image please?

I was at the first lamppost that you can see immediately on the left.

https://goo.gl/maps/2LuosDNCgxj

tomasrojo

Well, you would have been seen and they wouldn't have entered the hard shoulder if you were wearing a high vis

Plenty of people wearing hi-viz are hit by drivers. What statistical evidence there is doesn't strongly support the idea that your chances of being in a collision are lower if you wear hi-viz(*).

I would say that, were I in your position, given your difficulties with this roundabout, I'd change my route to exclude the roundabout, rather than how I dress.

Maybe it's not practical, but if a roundabout is that bad, I would stop using it.

(*) Your colleagues are probably right that if there were a legal case consequent to you having a collision, how you were dressed would be brought up. But wearing hi-viz, helmets, spinal protection, robot exoskeleton, whatever, just means they move on to the next concocted reason as to why it's your fault that a driver can't see what's right in front of him in daylight.

tomasrojo

(If this turns into a tributary of the mighty Hi-viz Mississippi, I apologise in advance.)

magicbastarder

that roundabout is known to several boardsies. i suspect they will have advice on how to approach it.

but your experience does remind me of the (rather trite, but still funny) observation that being a cyclist is like being a woman.
if you get in trouble, people will say you are to blame because of what you were wearing, and you must have done something to bring the misfortune on yourself.