Now ye're talking - to a Nurse

I'm a Nurse - AMA

jlm29 wrote: »

I’ll save you a job. They don’t! There’s three payscales for physios (4 I suppose, including management), staff grade, senior, and clinical specialist. There’s no allowances for extra training or qualifications over and above these pay scales, and to be honest, pitifully few opportunities to get off of the staff grade scale, regardless of extra training.
Physios do get paid for working weekends, but it isn’t much after tax, as I know you’ve pointed out about your colleagues doing extra shifts, and in general they have to work 12 days in a row when doing weekends.
It’s the same for all other AHPs. This is the main reason that you’ll find many AHPs find the word parity objectionable, it’s because it swings both ways, but you won’t hear that in the media!

Thank you for that. See that is something that should change. Maybe we should all go the Canadian way and earn as per qualifications and professional development. That way if you don't bother you don't get any more....

You don't hear a lot in the media.... well not a lot of truth anyways!

Out of curiosity, who works in an ICU, would that be a senior or clinical specialist??

Varta

tretorn wrote: »

A Junior doctor told me she is called to check blood pressure and put IV lines into drug addicts, the nurses refuse to do it.

The question wasnt addressed to you so butt out.

So again, nurses want to be paid more so are they willing to provide basic health care to drug addicts.

To the nurse: Don't engage with this obvious troll, its only purpose is to derail the thread.

noodler

Varta wrote: »

tretorn wrote: »

A Junior doctor told me she is called to check blood pressure and put IV lines into drug addicts, the nurses refuse to do it.

The question wasnt addressed to you so butt out.

So again, nurses want to be paid more so are they willing to provide basic health care to drug addicts.

To the nurse: Don't engage with this obvious troll, its only purpose is to derail the thread.

Please. Don't make this a propaganda thread.

The nurse is here to answer questions truthfully.

d8491prj5boyvg

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

Hi oldbee,

When we are saying we are understaffed we are not lying unfortunately. Under-staffing is a massive massive issue. It is evident by the amount the HSE pays for agency staff. Most hospitals pull staff from one area to another. Some wards have one permanent staff nurse on a shift with 2 students. That is stressful for the nurse as student nurses cannot do intravenous medications or administer medication alone. The nurse also has to run the ward. It is also incredibly stressful for the student nurses as yes they are getting massive experience having their own patient caseload and responsibilities but where is their support and guidance in that situation. I think if nurses were better staffed this strike action would never have come about to be honest. We need the short staffing fixed. Yes it means there are shifts available for those nurses who want to work extra shifts every month but it also means wards are short and nurses are continually overworked.

When I first qualified we had empty beds when we walked in on shift and when we left. There were adequate nurses. But patient caseloads have increased massively. There are extra patients put onto wards on trolleys. The nurse to patient ratio has increased and more nurses would help all of that. I honestly don't think there are any services fully staffed. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think there are.

Thanks a million, I really appreciate the response. Maybe the money should be spent on hiring more staff than paying the current staff more?

jlm29

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

Thank you for that. See that is something that should change. Maybe we should all go the Canadian way and earn as per qualifications and professional development. That way if you don't bother you don't get any more....

You don't hear a lot in the media.... well not a lot of truth anyways!

Out of curiosity, who works in an ICU, would that be a senior or clinical specialist??

it’s usually a staff grade or a senior, or often both together, depending on structure. There’s probably some clinical specialists working in icu in bigger hospitals, but in smaller regional hospitals there are almost no clinical specialist posts. I’d love to have an actual number, but id guess there’s less than 5 posts in Munster. If it’s more, it’s not much more. There’s so so many staff grades who have masters qualifications, have worked in a particular clinical area for years, done lots of extra training, benefit a service hugely and get absolutely no recognition for it. And it’s the same across all disciplines, from what I can see.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

tretorn wrote: »

Providing support to patients and relatives.
This is a massive part of nursing. Providing patient and family centred care is a massive part of our role. We support patient’s in many ways. We support their physical, social and emotional needs as well as other needs they may have. We assist patients with their physical needs. We help to turn patient’s in bed, transfer them onto chairs, assist them in walking, provide physiotherapy, provide aids they may require for physical needs. We feed them and bathe them.
We provide social support. Home nurses for one. We ensure they are aware of where to find help if required from a social aspect. We make referrals to relevant AHPs, facilities and community groups. We also provide a listening ear to those that may have no family or friends or those who attend an Emergency department or other service because they are lonely.
We provide a massive amount of emotional support to every patient we encounter and their family members. We are there to break bad new or present when bad news is broken and we provide support post that. We are there to hold a family members hand or provide a shoulder to cry on or even be a sounding board when required. We support patient’s when they are struggling emotionally whether it’s due to their illness, social circumstances or their mind-frame.

This is the bit thats most fanciful.

I think you are watching too much Call the Midwives. Theres no such thing as a bad midwife in that programme but its just a drama.

I am sorry you feel that way and also I have never seen Call the Midwives. I have also answered a question regarding my thoughts on all nurses being nice and caring which I have already answered so not getting into that again

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Ronin Magnificent Crucifix wrote: »

Thanks a million, I really appreciate the response. Maybe the money should be spent on hiring more staff than paying the current staff more?

The issue is they have tried but have not done so. Hospitals have spent money on going abroad to hire nurses with little success as I suppose it is not attractive enough at present but that may be due to higher cost of living here more than anything?? Its hard to know but I would be happy with more staff anyways!

Martina1991

Mr.Maroon wrote:

On a side note - it really annoys me how a phlebotomist won't take blood from a picc line.

If antibiotics or IV fluids have been administered in a line it is pointless taking blood samples from that line because the samples will be dilute and produce inaccurate results.
The samples would be rejected and have to be taken again.

hawkelady

tretorn wrote: »

I dont know what you mean by the royal We but you certainly cant be claiming that all nurses are as good as you.

My elderly relative spent weeks in a hospital after hip surgery and none of the nurses helped him walk. None of them helped him with toiletting either, they put a nappy on him so when he finally left hospital he was incontinent. He was also underweight because the food which was vile was left in front of him and he couldnt eat it, there were lots of nurses around but they all seemed to spend their days stuck on computers. The physical care of the patients, eg changing bed sheets etc was done by the carers, thats my impression anyway.

I did notice most of the nurses were overweight, is that from the shiftwork and the very unhealthy food available in the canteen.

And, no, none of the nurses I came across after the seven weeks my relly spent in hospital provided any emotional support to me. I made a complaint about something that upset my relative a great deal and the nurse manager said I will take iton board. She never came back to me about it so I made a complaint to the Patient advocacy service. I was told I had to put the complaint in writing but who is going to do that when their elderly relative in a sitting duck in the care of these professionals.

Are you for real ? You noticed a nurse was overweight ??? Ffs , are you a bit of a puddin yourself there ? Grow up and if you have a decent query you’d like answered from a nurse (I doubt you have btw) then ask it !

Op, I see there was a big turnout at the march today ! I’m sure the government will bring something to the table before Tuesday . Best of luck

d8491prj5boyvg

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

The issue is they have tried but have not done so. Hospitals have spent money on going abroad to hire nurses with little success as I suppose it is not attractive enough at present but that may be due to higher cost of living here more than anything?? Its hard to know but I would be happy with more staff anyways!

Thanks! That is a good point that never struck me and definitely makes sense. It is a catch 22, higher salaries may attract more to nursing but puts more pressure on the budget. I think any additional budget allocation should account for any increase in supply of nurses in response to the salary increase. That does mean less per nurse but more nurses!

I'm a Nurse - AMA

tretorn wrote: »

I dont know what you mean by the royal We but you certainly cant be claiming that all nurses are as good as you.

My elderly relative spent weeks in a hospital after hip surgery and none of the nurses helped him walk. None of them helped him with toiletting either, they put a nappy on him so when he finally left hospital he was incontinent. He was also underweight because the food which was vile was left in front of him and he couldnt eat it, there were lots of nurses around but they all seemed to spend their days stuck on computers. The physical care of the patients, eg changing bed sheets etc was done by the carers, thats my impression anyway.

I did notice most of the nurses were overweight, is that from the shiftwork and the very unhealthy food available in the canteen.

And, no, none of the nurses I came across after the seven weeks my relly spent in hospital provided any emotional support to me. I made a complaint about something that upset my relative a great deal and the nurse manager said I will take iton board. She never came back to me about it so I made a complaint to the Patient advocacy service. I was told I had to put the complaint in writing but who is going to do that when their elderly relative in a sitting duck in the care of these professionals.

I am sorry that was your experience and I am glad you complained. I believe that if you did not receive quality care then a complaint should be made.

When I refer to me I mean me and the colleagues I work or have worked directly alongside.

What you experienced sounds very familiar. The impression you received would make me hope that your relative was on the same ward as mine as it scares me if not :eek: I witnessed and experienced horrific nursing care last year when a relative was in hospital for 6 weeks before she died. It made me contemplate leaving nursing but on reflection I did realise that it was nursing care or lack thereof that I had not experienced in 4 years of training or 9 years of being a nurse. I won't even go into what I witnessed or went through with my loved one but to make a nurse want to leave nurses and not be associated with people like them might indicate how bad it was.

It is actually really upsetting to think that all nurses could be tarred with the same brush from an experience like that but I completely understand why.

As for your comment about nurses being overweight.... I think like every work force and the public in general you will have people of all different sizes. I will however say that when I worked shift work my eating patterns were horrific and I was too tired on my days off to do exercise aswell as housework and whatever other stuff had to be done. I also comfort eat so on a bad day I would come home and eat chocolate. I am not massively overweight by the way, BMI of 26 but I was very unhealthy and that has improved significantly since I stopped shift work and changed jobs in general.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Martina1991 wrote: »

If antibiotics or IV fluids have been administered in a line it is pointless taking blood samples from that line because the samples will be dilute and produce inaccurate results.
The samples would be rejected and have to be taken again.

Martina1991 Picc lines are inserted to allow withdrawing of blood samples even if there are regular or continuous infusions running through same. You have to withdraw and discard a certain amount of blood first before you draw back the actual samples.

thomasdylan

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

Yes they do generally look after minor injuries and yes I would agree I would choose an ANP most of the time myself!!

Those ANPs still help out on the floor when required and still assess and provide care for patient's you have mentioned though. Also there are ANPs who work in triage and do all that you mentioned above. I have worked in 2 departments. One where the ANPs do deal with minor cases and one where there is a triage ANP who deals with all you mentioned above except the acutely unwell. As far as I am concerned we need ANPs for minor injuries but we could do with more RAT ANPs in Ireland also.

A lot of SHOs I worked with over the years would not have looked after many of the above as there was usually registrars who took the sicker cases. Of course there are some exceptional SHOs who generally want to be an emergency medic and thrive in resus but then there are those that cherry pick the minor cases and pretend resus does not exist!!

I've worked in quite a few EDs and in all those hospitals ANPs do not manage septic patients, seizures or overdoses themselves. I didn't realise ANPs can see abdo pain and haven't experienced it. I'm not sure how it would work as AFAIK they can't order CT scans. Your experience of what ANPs do including the things I mentioned in my previous post doesn't sync with my experience.

I've have spent a lot of my career in ED and I can guarantee you that every SHO working in ED has dealt with every one of the presentations I mentioned multiple times and often a few of them in the same shift.

tretorn

hawkelady wrote: »

Are you for real ? You noticed a nurse was overweight ??? Ffs , are you a bit of a puddin yourself there ? Grow up and if you have a decent query you’d like answered from a nurse (I doubt you have btw) then ask it !

Op, I see there was a big turnout at the march today ! I’m sure the government will bring something to the table before Tuesday . Best of luck

No, I noticed most of the nurses were overweight, bursting out of too tight uniforms.

It’s much harder to have energy when you are carrying weight so maybe that could be why some nurses find life exhausting.

You are very aggressive, no need for incivility.

We aren’t all team nurse and we don’t have to be.

jlm29

tretorn wrote: »

No, I noticed most of the nurses were overweight, bursting out of too tight uniforms.

It’s much harder to have energy when you are carrying weight so maybe that could be why some nurses find life exhausting.

You are very aggressive, no need for incivility.

We aren’t all team nurse and we don’t have to be.

It doesn’t matter what “team” anyone is, there’s no need to be making jabs at people based on their appearance, it has no bearing on their level of clinical skill.

tretorn

jlm29 wrote: »

It doesn’t matter what “team” anyone is, there’s no need to be making jabs at people based on their appearance, it has no bearing on their level of clinical skill.

I’m not making jabs.

I have been in and out of about ten hospitals with elderly relatives and most of the nurses were overweight. It’s fair to ask is this an occupational hazard.

Topgear on Dave

tretorn wrote: »

No, I noticed most of the nurses were overweight, bursting out of too tight uniforms.

Your well out of order here, well out of order.

Topgear on Dave

tretorn wrote: »

I’m not making jabs.

I have been in and out of about ten hospitals with elderly relatives and most of the nurses were overweight. It’s fair to ask is this an occupational hazard.

Common enough with shift work.

Because shift work is sh*t. I do it myself.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Given things are so bad have you considered a career change? My company are starting a program to convert people in other careers to software developers. Good performance related merit increases and bonuses.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

thomasdylan wrote: »

I've worked in quite a few EDs and in all those hospitals ANPs do not manage septic patients, seizures or overdoses themselves. I didn't realise ANPs can see abdo pain and haven't experienced it. I'm not sure how it would work as AFAIK they can't order CT scans. Your experience of what ANPs do including the things I mentioned in my previous post doesn't sync with my experience.

I've have spent a lot of my career in ED and I can guarantee you that every SHO working in ED has dealt with every one of the presentations I mentioned multiple times and often a few of them in the same shift.

No again I obviously have not clarified enough, they do not look after seizures or sepsis independently but doctors don't either. They receive assistance of nurses, just as ANPs AND nurses receive assistance from the medics. Also, depending on the tyoe of overdose specialist nurses do care for those patients independently. I am not obviously including overdoses that require medical intervention and critical care. ANP roles differ from area to area I guess and hopefully they will continue to grow and be allowed to prescribe more and order more tests and assessments than they are in some places which will ultimately help the medics which is great.

Clearly you haven't worked with some of the SHOs I have worked with in the past. Very very few and far between and to be honest probably not suited for medicine never mind emergency medicine. In one department I worked in the SHOs were pushed to do their best, see as many patient's as possible and were encouraged (perhaps pushed screaming) to care for resus patients. That department has certainly trained some amazing doctors but it had the amazing consultants and Registrars who wanted to teach and push medics to their full potential.

Besides all that, my original point is that ANPs exist and in my opinion deserve the pay they are on....

um7y1h83ge06nx

One more question. If you do get what you want will it make your interactions with other hospital staff more difficult? For example I know many radiographers who are furious with the strike and accuse the INMO of breaking agreements and not showing compassion towards patients.

tretorn

Overweight nurses isn’t a good look, really if your job is to provide good health care then you should look like you are capable of taking care of your own body.

Even the dieticians who were involved in elderly relatives care were quite overweight, poor elderly man got thinner and thinner which made the nurses look even bigger. it was bizarre.

hawkelady

tretorn wrote: »

Overweight nurses isn’t a good look, really if your job is to provide good health care then you should look like you are capable of taking care of your own body.

Even the dieticians who were involved in elderly relatives care were quite overweight, poor elderly man got thinner and thinner which made the nurses look even bigger. it was bizarre.

Go home. You’re drunk ya clown

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Super_sonic I can't really answer that. I am saddened to hear many feel that way but everyone is entitled to an opinion and as above not everyone is team nurse and that is ok.

Nurses are still providing full patient care so i am unsure why they feel that way. There are as many nurses on the ward on strike days in my current hospital as there are on any other day.

I don't know if there is any discipline that is fully staffed and I highly doubt there is but that is why we should all try to work as a team and support one another.... but that is just my opinion.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Before I sign off here I just want to say thank you again to all the support, kind words, interesting discussions and great questions on here.

I am happy to answer any new questions on here tomorrow before i sign out fully but would like if anyone had anymore questions about a nurse in general that they want to know. For the posts I have missed I will get to them tomorrow.

Thank you again to everyone.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

Super_sonic I can't really answer that. I am saddened to hear many feel that way but everyone is entitled to an opinion and as above not everyone is team nurse and that is ok.

No bother, worth checking out the Radiographers Ireland Facebook page if you can get access.

And feel free to get in touch if you or any nurses wants a switch to software development.

thomasdylan

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

No again I obviously have not clarified enough, they do not look after seizures or sepsis independently but doctors don't either. They receive assistance of nurses, just as ANPs AND nurses receive assistance from the medics. Also, depending on the tyoe of overdose specialist nurses do care for those patients independently. I am not obviously including overdoses that require medical intervention and critical care. ANP roles differ from area to area I guess and hopefully they will continue to grow and be allowed to prescribe more and order more tests and assessments than they are in some places which will ultimately help the medics which is great.

Clearly you haven't worked with some of the SHOs I have worked with in the past. Very very few and far between and to be honest probably not suited for medicine never mind emergency medicine. In one department I worked in the SHOs were pushed to do their best, see as many patient's as possible and were encouraged (perhaps pushed screaming) to care for resus patients. That department has certainly trained some amazing doctors but it had the amazing consultants and Registrars who wanted to teach and push medics to their full potential.

Besides all that, my original point is that ANPs exist and in my opinion deserve the pay they are on....

All overdoses have to be seen by a doctor. There's guidelines on that, no matter what substance and no matter how much a doctor should see.

We can all talk about personal experiences but I think criticism of other healthcare professionals here and questioning their suitability for a career isn't appropriate . Everyone who work in hospitals has a role in patient care and we're essentially reliant on each other. It's a real bug bear of mine when people put out statements like that because it happens far too often in hospitals and is never constructive and very rarely justified. A general discussion about what ANPs and SHOs do has ended up with you broadly criticising SHOs you have previously worked with. Where is the support for each other there?

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Thomasdylan i also commented earlier that some nurses aren't suited to nursing. Like any other job some people are just not suited to their job and that is ok. What I have said is personal experience. And also being pushed screaming into resus was a joke. Nurses are pushed into resus also and what I mean by that is it can be a feared environment for some at the start. I get on well with all members of the multidisciplary team and I am proud to say I am respectful of every role within a hospital. I truly believe in everyone working as a team which is why I was so suited to emergency nursing. Everyone has to rely on one another. You may not think that is true however it is. I remain friends with many medical colleagues and as earlier mentioned I have huge respect for emergency doctors in particular. I guess that is all I have to say on this.

Tigerpants

I fully support the nurses but I do think something is badly wrong if you have a net pay of 2400 per month yet you find yourself in debt with a credit card etc
I hope to see the nurses win out and all public sector workers to receive an uplift as a result.
In the Local & European Elections in May, remember who put us here...FG FF....the nurses are not responsible for the cuts

Guffy

What would you advise someone who is considering a nursing degree now?