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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Hi R,

    I’m reading up on use of caffeine products at the mo so just a quick couple of questions for ya. Have ya used gels with added caffeine and if ya did how did ya find them on your stomach and did ya get a noticeable boost from them? No drawbacks from the product above apart from the taste?!

    Thanks

    The above product was good apart from the taste - I split the dosage in half though. I don’t get a noticeable boost - my legs just feel fresher for longer and don’t start to ache in the same way at the end of a long run . I’ve also tried shot blocs with caffeine, jelly beans with caffeine and another caffeine shot. The sweets take a long time to chew - so I thought I’d just go with the shot in the end .

    I haven’t used gels in this training cycle - I have used them in the past and the caffeine probably had same effect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    On the caffeine subject - I ran today for 18 miles no caffeine. Run was a nice pace and never felt hard but legs ached at the end much more then previous weeks . On the flip side though I feel much better after the run then I’ve felt in weeks - more energy and food going down nicely ( was struggling to eat or even have a few glasses of wine last few Saturday’s ) It will not be a problem tonight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Week Beginning 23rd of September

    Monday : 5 mile @6:21
    Don’t usually run Mondays but was off to physio Tuesday and was factoring in that Tuesday would be a write off. Legs were shocking tired.

    Tuesday : Physio- nothing drastic to report . Piriformis muscle tight causing a bit of sciatica.

    Wednesday: 5 mile@ 6:14
    Legs felt heavy and while run too much of an effort . Couldn’t manage the LT session on schedule .

    Thursday: 13k@ 5:40 (2k w/u, 10k MP, 1k c/d)

    Ticked off the MP kms - but it felt hard. Like 10k race hard . Fairly windy in one direction. Which is always the uphill part .

    MP: 5:29,5:30,5:28,5:27,5:29,5:30,5:27,5:27,5:33,5:29

    Saturday :

    Long run :18 mile @ 6:13

    Fairly calm run . Light drizzle kept us cool. Chatty all the way around - took in some hills (well no option really living in a valley).

    Didn’t take any caffeine- and legs ached by the end . Energy levels were ok though. I was thoroughly bored running by the end just wanted it done .

    Brought - 500mls of Osmo , stopped to buy a bottle of water after about 20k . Ate about 4/5 choc sweets and maybe 3/4 glucose sweets near the end.

    When I stopped running I was straight into the car to get home - legs started to feel very uncomfortable whilst driving . Thankfully only had a 2 minute drive . Once I was in the house , the legs were screaming at me and I had to sit down till it passed . Not pleasant .

    Strangely then the legs were grand for the rest of the day and I was full of energy , even managing a few glasses of wine . ( haven’t been able to manage this in weeks )

    Sunday : 6 mile @ 6:15

    Disappointed I couldn’t manage to do this slower as very conscious that I needed a proper
    Recovery run. I kept slowing down , then would slip into a daydream in speed up again .

    Happy though that I can run faster then recovery pace - as last marathon I did I was incapable of moving faster then a shuffle the day after the long run . So it’s some kind of an improvement.

    Right leg was acting up on Sunday and was very achey .


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Bluesquare wrote: »
    Week Beginning 23rd of September

    Monday : 5 mile @6:21
    Don’t usually run Mondays but was off to physio Tuesday and was factoring in that Tuesday would be a write off. Legs were shocking tired.

    Tuesday : Physio- nothing drastic to report . Piriformis muscle tight causing a bit of sciatica.

    Wednesday: 5 mile@ 6:14
    Legs felt heavy and while run too much of an effort . Couldn’t manage the LT session on schedule .

    Thursday: 13k@ 5:40 (2k w/u, 10k MP, 1k c/d)

    Ticked off the MP kms - but it felt hard. Like 10k race hard . Fairly windy in one direction. Which is always the uphill part .

    MP: 5:29,5:30,5:28,5:27,5:29,5:30,5:27,5:27,5:33,5:29

    Saturday :

    Long run :18 mile @ 6:13

    Fairly calm run . Light drizzle kept us cool. Chatty all the way around - took in some hills (well no option really living in a valley).

    Didn’t take any caffeine- and legs ached by the end . Energy levels were ok though. I was thoroughly bored running by the end just wanted it done .

    Brought - 500mls of Osmo , stopped to buy a bottle of water after about 20k . Ate about 4/5 choc sweets and maybe 3/4 glucose sweets near the end.

    When I stopped running I was straight into the car to get home - legs started to feel very uncomfortable whilst driving . Thankfully only had a 2 minute drive . Once I was in the house , the legs were screaming at me and I had to sit down till it passed . Not pleasant .

    Strangely then the legs were grand for the rest of the day and I was full of energy , even managing a few glasses of wine . ( haven’t been able to manage this in weeks )

    Sunday : 6 mile @ 6:15

    Disappointed I couldn’t manage to do this slower as very conscious that I needed a proper
    Recovery run. I kept slowing down , then would slip into a daydream in speed up again .

    Happy though that I can run faster then recovery pace - as last marathon I did I was incapable of moving faster then a shuffle the day after the long run . So it’s some kind of an improvement.

    Right leg was acting up on Sunday and was very achey .

    A good week. I did a similar MP run today that you did above. So do you reckon the lack of caffeine contributed to the pain in the legs?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    For sure - and it has obviously been playing havoc with my stomach after the run for a few weeks . But sod it if it gets me over the finish line I handle it for another day !

    I also think I might be going nuts though with regard to the leg pain . Pre taper phantom pain perhaps .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Week Beginning 30th of September

    Tuesday
    —————-

    10 mile with 4m @MP
    5k @6:15 , 6.4k @ 5:27,5k@6:25

    A bit of front loading going on here in anticipation of the storm that never was.

    This was a super run - chatted all the way through , MP pace felt handy and I felt strong . A high five run.

    Wednesday
    ——————

    6 mile @ 6:25

    Still in front loading mode - a very reluctant run - always wrecked on Wednesday’s and getting myself back out the door after long commute torturous.

    Thursday
    ———————
    1 mile W/u , 3 * 1 mile LT (90 secs AT), c/d
    5 mile in total @ 46:15

    Like a few other guys on here dusted off the treadmill , removed the clothes hanging on it , found the key and did a session . Made easier by watching Netflix , there was nobody else in the house so I had the volume on the tv up super high .

    LT felt hard enough - technically the pace was 7:55-8 but who knows what it really corresponded to. It was a tough sweat fest - which for me is novel as tend more towards the glow end of the sweat spectrum .

    Saturday
    —————-
    20 mile with 10 mile @ MP intervals

    Started with 500 ml of Osmo (70 calories). No caffeine today.

    3 mile @ 6:20,6:12,6:15,6:20,6,11(.8)
    Warmup , chatty etc

    5 mile @ 5:32,5:31,5:23,5:24,5:26,5:28,5:29,5:28,
    Kms 3/4 had a giant downhill in the middle so not true MP but didn’t fancy going up equivalent hill ! On strava it looks like I found a giant five mile hill and went down it . This was certainly not the case lol . Well apart from the 1k hill . My route is very hilly so it’s constantly up and down - a net down hill doesn’t mean there wasn’t a huge slog during the mile . ( two bon bons taken after this 70 cals)

    7k @ 6:21,6:11,6:20,6:30,6:18,6:15,6:08

    A random number here timed so we could stop for more water - didn’t want to break up the MP bit.

    Took two more chocs and a jelly baby - so 85 calories .

    5 mile @ 5:42,5:35,5:31,5:31,5:34,5:30,5:30,5:25

    This was tough enough - started slow due to a bit of route confusion but we got stuck in quick enough. This five mile again was undulating but
    last km was more or less down hill - a sweet reprieve .

    Legs were achier for second set and calf was starting to ping . I had to pull back several times as kept finding myself at @ Hmp. Have no recollection if I ate more during this bit , but I drank loads . I was in the zone and focused and whilst it felt like I was working I felt strong . I kept trying to memorize the feeling of the effort - so I’d recognize it on the day.

    4.3k@ 6:41,6:31,5:59,5:52,5:15(.3)

    After the MP - I had to bend down to tie lace - ouch , everything pinging now ! Route was flat for a bit then had a steep climb again for just under a mile. There is always a climb at the end. It’s heads down no chatting let’s get it done time . I got to the top of the climb and realized I was running by myself. The others were way back and clearly flagging . I slowed my pace for a bit to see if they would catch up but it wasn’t happening so I drove on as going slower hurt me more. I was taking glucose sweets at every km. They deffo help right at end give a boost to get the pace moving . I was feeling strong , and I finished strong - with more left in the tank.

    Once I was done mind I was hobbling like a 90 year old . Missed the caffeine but didn’t miss it later on when I was able to manage a few glasses of wine !

    Delighted with the run - a great long run to end on!!

    Sunday
    —————
    10k @ 6:20- grand n chatty . Was very tired yesterday though!

    Weekly total = 47.5

    Happy to have made in one piece to to the taper . Delighted to end on a good week. I can safely say this is the fittest I have ever been . Yeah I have had bad runs but I still nailed the prescribed paces ( Frank Duffy being the exception) .

    I have come to the conclusion that in training I am machine like . 100% focused - totally engaged , incredibly anal about pace hitting but at the same time not wasting energy on hills etc .

    Then in races I loose the plot . In ratoath I was focused for a bit , then I started to day dream , pull back from paces and stop engaging actively in the race ( some of this was confidence I think) Dunshaughlin was the only race I was 100% engaged in and my concentration didn’t waver.

    So I need to turn DCM into a giant training session and I’ll be good! I think physically I’m 100% ready but I might need a good sports shrink !


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭chickey2


    Your training is going really well, you just need to trust it!
    That long run should be a real confidence boost. Remind me what your goal is, I'm guessing well under 4 hours?
    Keep it going!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Brilliant week and fantastic long run. Only just went to Strava to look at it. I missed it on Saturday and I find it easier now to look at miles on Strava than your km paces here. It was a very strong run. Lovely confidence building one too.

    Are you running DCM with the same group or will you do it on your own? I make a habit of doing training runs better than races too. Don;t know what it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    chickey2 wrote: »
    Your training is going really well, you just need to trust it!
    That long run should be a real confidence boost. Remind me what your goal is, I'm guessing well under 4 hours?
    Keep it going!

    Thanks .Still wavering . Sub 4 hours would be sweet though .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Kellygirl wrote: »
    Brilliant week and fantastic long run. Only just went to Strava to look at it. I missed it on Saturday and I find it easier now to look at miles on Strava than your km paces here. It was a very strong run. Lovely confidence building one too.

    Are you running DCM with the same group or will you do it on your own? I make a habit of doing training runs better than races too. Don;t know what it is.

    I have been training with one girl in particular for 2 years now . ( more peeps in larger group) I’d say our fitness is similar but she can actually convert it into races . I’m good at planning and she’s good at making sure we follow the plans ! So a good team. The other peeps we run with in the club are a little less into following plans !

    The current idea is for us to start with 2 other guys. One of which is way fitter but has offered to pace us until at least half way - I suspect he will take off at 30k . He’s incredibly steady and renown for his negative splits . He’s paced us for two long runs so far and it’s worked out well. He wasn’t there Saturday as his wife just gave birth !

    The current plan is 4:10 pace till 7 mile . Haven’t decided after that what to do yet . On the fence - but I want to have no regrets ! Unless I feel absolutely crap on the day I suspect I’ll go for it .

    I’ve had a good year so it’s not all hanging on one race !


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Cool. Hope I get to meet you on the day. Are you starting in wave 3? I’m wave 2 but planning on dropping back. Will be in McGrattans after anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Kellygirl wrote: »
    Cool. Hope I get to meet you on the day. Are you starting in wave 3? I’m wave 2 but planning on dropping back. Will be in McGrattans after anyway.

    Plan to start at back of wave 2. Well I’ve been told I am lol . Are you running with a group ? Our club usually go to some hotel that name escapes my brain . I’ll deffo pop into McGrattans for a bit ! I guess your staying in Dublin as your up from Cork ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Bluesquare wrote: »
    Plan to start at back of wave 2. Well I’ve been told I am lol . Are you running with a group ? Our club usually go to some hotel that name escapes my brain . I’ll deffo pop into McGrattans for a bit ! I guess your staying in Dublin as your up from Cork ?

    I think I’ll run myself this year and loosely use the pacers but not intending staying a group. A friend offered to pace me to 4 hour but she’d be more inclined to do even pacing and is a stronger runner. I’m afraid I’ll use too much energy talking then too even though on Saturday in Galway I mattered away to various people in the way round.

    Yes, staying in Dublin Saturday and Sunday nights.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Your totally welcome to come with us if you change your mind. We have a non talking rule in races lol - outside of a few short instructions or sarcastic muttering . Our pacer though natters a bit but he knows better then to expect a reply . We are not really expecting to finish together mind .


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    Bluesquare wrote: »
    Your totally welcome to come with us if you change your mind. We have a non talking rule in races lol - outside of a few short instructions or sarcastic muttering . Our pacer though natters a bit but he knows better then to expect a reply . We are not really expecting to finish together mind .

    Thanks a mill. I’ll definitely consider it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    Some fab training going on here. Lots of reasons to be confident that you’ll have a good run.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    Some fab training going on here. Lots of reasons to be confident that you’ll have a good run.

    Ah Thanks ! Questioning everything now lol ! Great advice over on the Novice thread - quietly following and it’s helping to keep me grounded!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Was at the physio today for sports massage .

    I had a few complaints lol and he had me doing some stretching first. He looked horrified at my pathetic calf stretching and did some measurements . He was panicked then saying not much he could do at this stage - calves very tight etc etc , shaking his head a bit . Then during the massage he was like your calves are grand - not a bother - he was very puzzled all together . I think he thinks I was winding him up .

    Anyways everything looks good . So two weeks to go !


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Comic Book Guy


    Tried one of those Caffeine shot drinks you mentioned a few weeks ago before my LSR this morning. You weren't lying about the taste!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Tried one of those Caffeine shot drinks you mentioned a few weeks ago before my LSR this morning. You weren't lying about the taste!!

    Did it help !


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Comic Book Guy


    Bluesquare wrote: »
    Did it help !

    My legs were tired for first 5 miles from yesterday but could defo feel a freshness after that but not sure if it was just a placebo effect!

    The one worry I might have is towards the end I had that kinda feeling that i may need a toilet break!! But again I may have felt that anyways.

    I'm still on the fence about using it in 2 weeks. Must remember to have a small bottle of water to wash it down if I do use it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Just lost post . So annoying !!

    Going to make it a lot briefer now !

    Tuesday - 3*2k LT (7.6 mile)

    A lot of the LT was into wind and on an incline . It hurt. The last 1k ish was lovely though! Stuck to an approx 8 min mile for all .

    Thursday - 11k with 8k MP

    Half the MP was on that incline and yes into the wind so the effort was not proportional to the pace for the first 4k. Still managed to go too fast though (8:47/5:27). The second half maintained the same effort for the first 2k ( 8:31/5:17), then stepped back and slowed down 8:47/5:27) again.

    So not really a MP run or effort .

    Saturday
    —————-

    16 mile ‘easy’ @ 10 min mile

    This was not easy and was the most irritating run ever.

    I have enjoyed this training cycle because I have felt in control of my running - ticking off my paces and sessions from the schedule - I felt I have trained smarter then before .

    But on this the last long run , one of the gang seemed to have an agenda to do it faster then planned - like we were racing . So kept upping the pace to a random pace ( which now annoys me , go slow or do MP but not a nonsense pace ) .

    I would slow it back down but then it would start again. This was a flash back to my last marathon training where long runs were done at whatever pace was left in your legs on Saturday . That didn’t end well!!

    Anyways apart from that I felt sluggish and my legs ached ( I had a massage Friday and that’s normal for me after a run). At the end though despite All the crap I realised that I actually felt ok (mental attitude is my big weakness who would have guessed)

    Finished off yesterday with 3.2 mile recovery in the treadmill .

    I missed my target miles by .4 (33.6). That’s me screwed !


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    What sort of mileage and sessions have you planned for the next 2 weeks?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Kellygirl wrote: »
    What sort of mileage and sessions have you planned for the next 2 weeks?

    25 miles this week

    Tuesday - 6 mile (3*1k LT)
    Thursday - 6 mile (5MP)
    Saturday - 10 mile easy
    Sunday - 3 mile easy

    Next week: 5 mile with 2*1kLT, 4 mile easy , 2 mile easy . Big day. I probably won’t do the last two mile

    What about you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    This week:
    Today: 6 miles easy with 2mins LT after each easy and 5x20s strides after
    Tuesday: 2 Easy, 6 MP (which is 9:04 after yours and the other posts on my log)
    Wednesday: Physio
    Thursday: 75 mins easy
    Friday 60 mins easy
    Long run: 10M MP

    Next week:
    -70 mins easy
    -2 Easy, 4 Moderate
    -2-3 miles
    - Long run: 26.2 miles in 3:59:45


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    The long run at the end of week two is that: (1k w/u, 2*5k @ MP+20secs, 1 min AT, 5*5k@MP, 1 min AT , 6.2k @LT ???)

    If we write it like that we will nail it n/p!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    Last week before the big week !!!!!!!

    Tuesday
    —————-

    10k: 3*1k LT ( plus a few k “moderate” )

    LT paces : 4:58,4:57,4:52 ( 90 secs easy jog in between)
    After the LT a got a notion to practice 5:50/9:25 as this would be the proposed pace for the first tenk of the marathon ( more or less ) . This didn’t work out too well as legs were feeling particularly fresh and kept motoring too fast so had a mixture of laps at random paces to finish off ( 5:32,5:45,5:59,6:03)

    It felt easy enough - weirdly It’s how I thought a 9 min mile would seem now after all the training .Nope it’s still an effort .

    Thursday
    ——————
    10k with 8k @ MP

    MP: 5:30,5:27,5:30,5:25,5:27,5:31,5:29,5:25

    This felt ok - pace still a bit of an effort . Realised half way through I was bored stupid running and disliked the effort . I think it was a good feeling to recognise so I don’t confuse apathy with tiredness etc on the day .

    Saturday
    —————-

    Ten mile easy ish

    Original plan was to try and run first 11k as per Dcm plan for first 11k . Didn’t work out . Pure lazy .

    Ran slightly quicker then slow and averaged 6:02

    Again thourougly bored. Glad the race is next week cause I really need a break !!

    Sunday
    ————

    4 mile easy @6:20

    Legs felt fresh, and just tripped along

    Total 26 mile


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bluesquare


    I have had a good training block . The year started well but an ankle sprain had me waylaid for feb/March . After my recovery I built mileage up for a few months before marathon cycle to 25-30 miles a week . Finally managed to break sub 50 for 10k in June in Dunshauglin , I was made up! Considered giving up running then but not the ideal trick before a sun holiday ! Powered through the summer systematically ticking off all the boxes on my schedule.

    Some runs felt difficult but I got through them and whilst still running the prescribed paces . Some felt great and gave me a great old buzz . I changed my diet slightly adding more protein . Didn’t take gels at all this time for long runs and ate real food instead and drank Osmo . Osmo is like a super strength zero but with glucose . Ran myself some smashing twenty milers with half the miles @ PMP (5:30). They were tough yokes but I nailed them even If I was walking like John Wayne after . A mini set back with a dismal frank Duffy in the park - but I didn’t let it get under my skin ( well maybe for a few days)

    I knocked 4 mins off my half time in Ratoath - a race I perhaps ran too cautiously but was bloody delighted .

    Anyways this training block had been a blast - I really enjoyed it . It’s a completely different experience then my last marathon training block and I won’t lie I feel good . I have felt in control and wasn’t stumbling exhausted from run to run . Last time around at this stage I was finding even easy runs hard and everyone told me that was normal - it clearly wasn’t .

    So whatever goes down next week - I’m glad I made it to this point . I think if I’m ready for sub 4 I’ll take and if not I’ll have a great race anyway and come away with a shiny pb.

    I’m especially happy with my sub 50. That made my year already so anything else is icing on the cake !!

    On the emotional taper theme I’ll throw in my two pence worth ..... I’ve learned a lot from the boards - mostly on the theme of slowing down to go fast and appreciate the advice over the years . Hoping to catch some of ye in the pub after !!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Glad it's not just me all emotional!

    Very best of luck next week, i hope you smash that target time :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    That’s a great post. Looking forward to meeting you next week.


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