Safepass question

okatied

My son is doing his Leaving this year and wants to do an apprenticeship as an electrician afterwards. Safepass and manual handling cert seem to be required for most of the positions. Would it be better for him to bite the bullet and do these courses now, or would it be ok for him to say he is planning on doing them once the Leaving Cert is finished? Do they expire?

granturismo

Safepass renewal is every 4 years and I dont think there is an expiry on manual handling.

I guess he will be given both by the employer in Phase 1
https://apprentices.ie/service/electrician/

Blacktie.

He can do them now with zero study or planning. It's ridiculously easy so don't worry about it interfering with studies other than a lost 8 hours of his life.

rainbowtrout

Safepass is a one day course. He could do it on a saturday or during his midterm break/Easter holidays. Same with manual handling.

Dakotabigone

What’s the point of the safepass course? It’s a cash cow let the facts be the facts here.

Gumbo

Dakotabigone wrote: »

What’s the point of the safepass course? It’s a cash cow let the facts be the facts here.

Can’t work on a building site without it. Those are the facts.

Dakotabigone

kceire wrote: »

Can’t work on a building site without it. Those are the facts.

I’m aware of that, the point I was making is that’s it’s a joke of a course. One cannot fail it.

e.r

granturismo wrote: »

Safepass renewal is every 4 years and I dont think there is an expiry on manual handling.

I guess he will be given both by the employer in Phase 1
https://apprentices.ie/service/electrician/

Manual handling, is only valid for two/three years

Dakotabigone

e.r wrote: »

Manual handling, is only valid for two/three years

This can be done online?

e.r

Dakotabigone wrote: »

This can be done online?

Unfortunately not, it was a half day course when I did it few years back.

To be honest it’s a bit of a scam as the material is fairly covered in the Safepass, and personal think it should be fully.

Andrew00

He doesn’t need to study for it.

They literally give you the answers in there. It’s a farce, 100 quid too I think. Another racket and you have to renew after 4 years

iwillhtfu

If your son is applying for an apprenticeship any decent company should put him through the safe pass course and manual handling if they require it, some don't.

Try and push him toward an EI apprenticeship if you can. I think ESB are taking on EI apprentices at the minute.

mycro2013

iwillhtfu wrote: »

If your son is applying for an apprenticeship any decent company should put him through the safe pass course and manual handling if they require it, some don't.

Try and push him toward an EI apprenticeship if you can. I think ESB are taking on EI apprentices at the minute.

It would be well worth doing the courses before you apply as numerous employer's use these courses to differentiate between candidates. It shows that a candidate is keen to start.

Get him to do the abrasive wheel training course also. The cost of these courses is minimal in the scheme of things.

Also get him to apply for a full driving license.

Dakotabigone

mycro2013 wrote: »

It would be well worth doing the courses before you apply as numerous employer's use these courses to differentiate between candidates. It shows that a candidate is keen to start.

Get him to do the abrasive wheel training course also. The cost of these courses is minimal in the scheme of things.

Also get him to apply for a full driving license.

The abrasive wheel training course in no way teaches one how to use a grinder, con saw. It’s just another cash cow.
It ticks the boxes, for any one thinking that this is a course to learn how to use a grinder safety or con saw forget about it.

Andrew00

Dakotabigone wrote: »

The abrasive wheel training course in no way teaches one how to use a grinder, con saw. It’s just another cash cow.
It ticks the boxes, for any one thinking that this is a course to learn how to use a grinder safety or con saw forget about it.

It looks good on the CV though , that’s the point

Smudger80

okatied wrote:

My son is doing his Leaving this year and wants to do an apprenticeship as an electrician afterwards. Safepass and manual handling cert seem to be required for most of the positions. Would it be better for him to bite the bullet and do these courses now, or would it be ok for him to say he is planning on doing them once the Leaving Cert is finished? Do they expire?

There are companies that do the safe pass and manual handling course on the same day,They can be booked a couple of weeks in advance or even the day before,there's a load online,no need for you're son to panic

okatied

Thanks everyone. I'll get him to do the courses after his mocks.
Another query, there is an ESB application preparation course being offered. Is this a money making racket, or would it be beneficial to a candidate with no experience? Especially wondering about tips for writing the personal statement and the aptitude tests.

aido79

okatied wrote: »

Thanks everyone. I'll get him to do the courses after his mocks.
Another query, there is an ESB application preparation course being offered. Is this a money making racket, or would it be beneficial to a candidate with no experience? Especially wondering about tips for writing the personal statement and the aptitude tests.

It's not really a money racket. With common sense in decline these days and the claim culture on the increase these courses are a way of passing ownership of the blame back on employees that hurt themselves through their own negligence with them being able to say "but I didn't know that wasn't the way to do it"
It's kinda like being told "we told you not to do stupid stuff...you did stupid stuff and hurt yourself...it's your own fault"
The posters saying the courses are a money racket possibly have years of experience so the material explained in the course is probably second nature to them but for your son who I'm going to assume has never been on a building site they are definitely worth doing.

the_pen_turner

aido79 wrote: »

It's not really a money racket. With common sense in decline these days and the claim culture on the increase these courses are a way of passing ownership of the blame back on employees that hurt themselves through their own negligence with them being able to say "but I didn't know that wasn't the way to do it"
It's kinda like being told "we told you not to do stupid stuff...you did stupid stuff and hurt yourself...it's your own fault"
The posters saying the courses are a money racket possibly have years of experience so the material explained in the course is probably second nature to them but for your son who I'm going to assume has never been on a building site they are definitely worth doing.

You couldn't beat the stupid out of some people.
No amount of stupid courses will stop people doing dangerous things

aido79

the_pen_turner wrote: »

You couldn't beat the stupid out of some people.
No amount of stupid courses will stop people doing dangerous things

I don't think you're really getting the idea of the courses.

The courses aren't designed to teach or beat stupid out of people. They are designed to inform. If people still do dangerous things after doing the course then they are basically admitting liability for their actions and lose the right to claim for compensation unless it was negligence on the employers part.
Believe me I have done more than my fair share of these type of courses to understand what they are about.

micks

okatied wrote: »

My son is doing his Leaving this year and wants to do an apprenticeship as an electrician afterwards. Safepass and manual handling cert seem to be required for most of the positions. Would it be better for him to bite the bullet and do these courses now, or would it be ok for him to say he is planning on doing them once the Leaving Cert is finished? Do they expire?

I am a few years ahead of you - do the courses doesnt really matter when once they dont expire before he gets an apprenticeship (man handling as said is 2-3 yr expiry)
While employers are obliged to supply safe pass, man handling etc their work around is that most wont employ an apprentice without them
If looking at electrician - leaving cert maths is a requirement for most employers (not with solus but employers wont take chance on those without leaving maths)

E&I is a better option with the right employer but can be harder to acquire

ESB is a great option - the aptitude tests can be tricky but not impossible.

There is lots of opinions on what is the best type of employer for an electrical apprenticeship, but there is lots of options also.
An electrical apprenticeship can be a great start in a career with lots of directions to turn when complete

the_pen_turner

aido79 wrote: »

I don't think you're really getting the idea of the courses.

The courses aren't designed to teach or beat stupid out of people. They are designed to inform. If people still do dangerous things after doing the course then they are basically admitting liability for their actions and lose the right to claim for compensation unless it was negligence on the employers part.
Believe me I have done more than my fair share of these type of courses to understand what they are about.

i hav done my fair share of them too.

im not disagreeing with you. all they are is pass the buck down the ladder. the majority are pure bs. plain and simple a waste of time.

its all well and good to put the blame on the employee but most accidents are either pure braindead people that shouldnt be hired onto a site or employers fault( either by rushing, lack of manpower, not enough ppe, etc)


there are some genuine accidents too dont get me wrong.


all those rules go out the window when its do the job or go home. iv seen it loads of times with bad employers, cutting corners or costs

aido79

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i hav done my fair share of them too.

im not disagreeing with you. all they are is pass the buck down the ladder. the majority are pure bs. plain and simple a waste of time.

its all well and good to put the blame on the employee but most accidents are either pure braindead people that shouldnt be hired onto a site or employers fault( either by rushing, lack of manpower, not enough ppe, etc)


there are some genuine accidents too dont get me wrong.


all those rules go out the window when its do the job or go home. iv seen it loads of times with bad employers, cutting corners or costs

Personally I avoid companies who cut corners and costs when it comes to safety. I have seen what happens when things go wrong because someone took shortcuts.
It's not just braindead people who hurt themselves. I have seen very experienced and normally smart guys do some really stupid stuff through complacency.

I don't agree they are a waste of time. I work on some very dangerous sites where if everyone isn't on the same page when it comes to safety the results of someone doing something stupid could be tragic. These courses are aimed at getting people to work safely and anything that encourages that is worth every cent in my opinion if it means get to go home alive.

Dr.Sanchez

Dakotabigone wrote: »

The abrasive wheel training course in no way teaches one how to use a grinder, con saw. It’s just another cash cow.
It ticks the boxes, for any one thinking that this is a course to learn how to use a grinder safety or con saw forget about it.

Legislation states you need to be trained on how to mount an abrasive wheel, not trained on how to use it. The idea of the abrasive wheels AWARENESS course is to cover this aspect of legislation, it was never intended to train people on how to use a grinder or con saw.

Dakotabigone

Dr.Sanchez wrote: »

Legislation states you need to be trained on how to mount an abrasive wheel, not trained on how to use it. The idea of the abrasive wheels course is to cover this aspect of legislation, it was never intended to trained people on how to use a grinder or con saw.

For what they charge to do the course they should at least teach basic user tutorials.

the_pen_turner

aido79 wrote: »

Personally I avoid companies who cut corners and costs when it comes to safety. I have seen what happens when things go wrong because someone took shortcuts.
It's not just braindead people who hurt themselves. I have seen very experienced and normally smart guys do some really stupid stuff through complacency.

I don't agree they are a waste of time. I work on some very dangerous sites where if everyone isn't on the same page when it comes to safety the results of someone doing something stupid could be tragic. These courses are aimed at getting people to work safely and anything that encourages that is worth every cent in my opinion if it means get to go home alive.

I'm talking about safe pass etc and abrasive wheel etc. Waste of time

The confined spaces and working at heights and the ticket ones are good. They can save lives

_Brian

Dakotabigone wrote: »

I’m aware of that, the point I was making is that’s it’s a joke of a course. One cannot fail it.

It’s not about failing people. It’s about ensuring the information has been imparted. If people struggle with the final test the instructors sit with them and explain the portions of the course they haven’t understood until they can competently demonstrate they have sufficient knowledge of the material.

I have plenty of lads coming back from safepass saying they learned stuff.


As for OP definitely do both courses, as someone who interviews regularly it would demonstrate that he is keen and an ability to get out and get stuff done. So many expect to be spoon fed stuff these days it’s embarrassing on them.

aido79

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I'm talking about safe pass etc and abrasive wheel etc. Waste of time

The confined spaces and working at heights and the ticket ones are good. They can save lives

I don't think it is a waste of time for someone who has never been on a construction site in their lives to do the safepass course. Being informed of the basics could stop them from getting hurt or worse.
I actually have no idea what the abrasive wheel course is.

Dakotabigone

The abrasive wheel course tells you to put a disc on in the correct rotation. This is common sense anyway. That’s about it.

Dr.Sanchez

Dakotabigone wrote: »

The abrasive wheel course tells you to put a disc on in the correct rotation. This is common sense anyway. That’s about it.

Wow... clearly its not common sense, or you must have been asleep during your course.

• Is it the right type of abrasive wheel for the job? i.e. cutting or grinding
• Does the wheel conform to EN12413? Lots of Chinese knockoffs on the market
• If its an organic bonded wheel - is it in date? How long past date of manufacture can you use it?
• Is the maximum permissible speed in both RPM and M/S marked on the wheel?
• What do the colour coded stripes mean on the wheel?
• Why should I not use a wheel with a max speed of 6600RPM on an angle grinder with a speed of 7700RPM?

There's a little bit more to it than putting it on in the right rotation...

2011

I have done enough Safepass courses to know that they are a joke. Despite my repeated requests I only learn about aspects of safety that will never be relevant in any way to my profession or what I will ever do in my day to day work. I can honestly say that each Safepass has been a complete waste of my time. The idea behind Safepass may be sound, but in reality it is just a cash cow.