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Taxi drive complaint - NTA

  • 04-02-2019 11:52am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 28,696 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    I stuck the hand out for a taxi driver at the weekend he pulls up, light on, great.
    Where are you going to?
    "bla bla"
    Oh actually I have a fair already....and drove off (luckily I took a picture of his number).



    I sent complaint into the NTA.


    They sent me an email today to say if driver doesnt pay fixed payment notice...I will need to make myself available for a court case...is this the norm? Has anyone any experience of this kind of thing?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭ irlrobins


    I've lodged similar complaints and got the same initial reply from NTA. None of them went to court, they usually get handled by NTA in short period, as drivers want to resolve as quickly as they can, usually by paying the fixed fine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,696 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    irlrobins wrote: »
    I've lodged similar complaints and got the same initial reply from NTA. None of them went to court, they usually get handled by NTA in short period, as drivers want to resolve as quickly as they can, usually by paying the fixed fine.
    Thanks for the quick reply.
    I kind of guessed that would be the case, kind of glad I was with someone so have a witness.
    I just dont think they should be allowed to get away with rubbish like that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭ ArthurG


    gmisk wrote: »
    I stuck the hand out for a taxi driver at the weekend he pulls up, light on, great.
    Where are you going to?
    "bla bla"
    Oh actually I have a fair already....and drove off (luckily I took a picture of his number).



    I sent complaint into the NTA.


    They sent me an email today to say if driver doesnt pay fixed payment notice...I will need to make myself available for a court case...is this the norm? Has anyone any experience of this kind of thing?

    I never tell them where i'm going until i'm in the car, hard for them to drive off when you're in the vehicle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    How much in the NTA fine?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭ davetherave




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭ Losty Dublin


    I didn't think that they would issue a fixed fine solely upon the content of an e-mail, even with a photo attached. Certainly they usen't to at least. As regards a court case, well if it goes that far then you would presumably need to attend as a witness. That would be months away though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭ irlrobins


    Sometimes the investigator will ring complainant to get further details, and follow up with result, based on my experience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,608 ✭✭✭✭ Spook_ie


    I assume you mean he said he had a fare but no one in the cab?

    There is an outside possibility that he had just taken an app booking, has happened to me above once (admittedly when I'm on a rank) when I've accepted an app fair just as someones approached the cab, but fairly easy for a driver or customer to prove as long as people have the times etc. of the complaint


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭ Losty Dublin


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I assume you mean he said he had a fare but no one in the cab?

    There is an outside possibility that he had just taken an app booking, has happened to me above once (admittedly when I'm on a rank) when I've accepted an app fair just as someones approached the cab, but fairly easy for a driver or customer to prove as long as people have the times etc. of the complaint

    Fair point. Used to happen me as well when I was on the road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,696 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I assume you mean he said he had a fare but no one in the cab?

    There is an outside possibility that he had just taken an app booking, has happened to me above once (admittedly when I'm on a rank) when I've accepted an app fair just as someones approached the cab, but fairly easy for a driver or customer to prove as long as people have the times etc. of the complaint
    That would be fine...but he had his light on and pulled in when we put hands out...then he asks where we are going...and then suddenly he has a fair....it doesnt sound likely does it? Or fair in the least to me.



    I will be carrying on with the complaint.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,608 ✭✭✭✭ Spook_ie


    gmisk wrote: »
    That would be fine...but he had his light on and pulled in when we put hands out...then he asks where we are going...and then suddenly he has a fair....it doesnt sound likely does it? Or fair in the least to me.



    I will be carrying on with the complaint.

    Sounds like a dick, carry on with blessings of all decent taxi drivers


  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭ TunaSaladBB


    The NTA could probably self-fund if they collected fines from taxi drivers every time one of these rules was broken:
    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/operating-an-spsv/rights-and-responsibilities-of-an-spsv-driver/fixed-payment-offences/

    These ones would be a gold mine:
    Standing for hire other than at an appointed stand (taxi only) (€40)
    Standing with a taxi on part of a public road adjoining or in proximity to an appointed stand when the stand is full (€40)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭ .G.


    They'd clean up at Heuston station everyday for the second one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 689 Ray Bloody Purchase


    superg wrote: »
    They'd clean up at Heuston station everyday for the second one.

    At the drop off 'only' zone?? :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭ Mr.Frame


    The NTA could probably self-fund if they collected fines from taxi drivers every time one of these rules was broken:
    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/operating-an-spsv/rights-and-responsibilities-of-an-spsv-driver/fixed-payment-offences/

    These ones would be a gold mine:
    Standing for hire other than at an appointed stand (taxi only) (€40)
    Standing with a taxi on part of a public road adjoining or in proximity to an appointed stand when the stand is full (€40)

    They do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭ GM228


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    They do.

    +1, in 2017 for example they issued 1512 FPNs and initiated 150 direct non FPN prosecutions, there was 112 cases for non payment of FPNs.

    Of the 262 cases they had a 95% conviction rate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,722 ✭✭✭ Marcusm


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I assume you mean he said he had a fare but no one in the cab?

    There is an outside possibility that he had just taken an app booking, has happened to me above once (admittedly when I'm on a rank) when I've accepted an app fair just as someones approached the cab, but fairly easy for a driver or customer to prove as long as people have the times etc. of the complaint

    In which case why would you even engage with them to find out where they wanted to go? Even if on the way it would still interfere with the customer you had snaffled on the app.


  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭ usernamegoes


    I had a taxi driver on the Uber app message me asking where I was going once I told him he quit the fare. I knew where it was going so I took a screenshot and sent it to NTA. Same thing as OP, willing to go to court etc. They emailed me to day the driver was interviewed under caution and it was decided to fine him €80.

    I had one driver drive off on me after I told him where I was going, he had the door locked and I nearly went under the wheel he took off so fast. We need more taxis but NTA are acting the maggot by not giving out new licenses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,230 ✭✭✭✭ Sleeper12


    gmisk wrote:
    They sent me an email today to say if driver doesnt pay fixed payment notice...I will need to make myself available for a court case...is this the norm? Has anyone any experience of this kind of thing?


    This is the norm. You made an allegation against the taxi driver and he denied it. They can't ta it any further without you attending the hearing. They will want to question you face to face and the same goes for the taxi driver.

    It would be a strange world if anyone could make an allegation & the person who you made the allegations about gets punished without a fair hearing.

    On Facebook & twitter people decide someone's guilt without proof but fortunately in the real world people have a right to defend themselves


  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭ Mr.Frame


    I had a taxi driver on the Uber app message me asking where I was going once I told him he quit the fare. I knew where it was going so I took a screenshot and sent it to NTA. Same thing as OP, willing to go to court etc. They emailed me to day the driver was interviewed under caution and it was decided to fine him €80.

    I had one driver drive off on me after I told him where I was going, he had the door locked and I nearly went under the wheel he took off so fast. We need more taxis but NTA are acting the maggot by not giving out new licenses.

    I somehow think it is NOT a court issue!

    At present Dublin has more taxis than New York, hvnt you seen the streets id the city on any given night, theres traffic jams with taxis
    And the NTA ARE issuing licences, even though the market is flooded.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,230 ✭✭✭✭ Sleeper12


    I had a taxi driver on the Uber app message me asking where I was going once I told him he quit the fare. I knew where it was going so I took a screenshot and sent it to NTA. Same thing as OP, willing to go to court etc. They emailed me to day the driver was interviewed under caution and it was decided to fine him €80.

    I had one driver drive off on me after I told him where I was going, he had the door locked and I nearly went under the wheel he took off so fast. We need more taxis but NTA are acting the maggot by not giving out new licenses.


    I'm not so sure this is true. Police interview you under caution I don't think NTA do. Taxi can't refuse a fare on the street but I don't think the law applies to an app. I doubt NTA have much to say with Uber. You might need a taxi for the city center to Tallaght. Taxi might have a pickup in Coolock in 45 minutes. Taxi could be ringing to see if you are going close to coolock. MY Taxi would work like a taxi radio company. Drivers can refuse a fare if it's out of their way or interferes with their next scheduled pickup


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,415 ✭✭✭ vandriver


    Uber requires you to put in your destination when you book a cab.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,230 ✭✭✭✭ Sleeper12


    vandriver wrote:
    Uber requires you to put in your destination when you book a cab.


    It sounded made up to me too


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭ Losty Dublin


    Marcusm wrote: »
    In which case why would you even engage with them to find out where they wanted to go? Even if on the way it would still interfere with the customer you had snaffled on the app.

    I can't speak for other drivers but when I was in the trade and on the way to a booked pickup and saw somebody trying to hail and asked me, I'd let them know I was on my way elsewhere but if they were en route then yeah I would. Different story if you were doubling back but if it was handy then hell yeah, why not.

    Some canny base staff at cab firms would do similar with their drivers; if they knew you could pick up a fare en route to another fare then they'd get you to do both.

    Sue me if you want for doing this :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,613 ✭✭✭✭ whiskeyman


    I always thought they didn't have to accept the fare until you actually sat in the car?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,230 ✭✭✭✭ Sleeper12


    whiskeyman wrote:
    I always thought they didn't have to accept the fare until you actually sat in the car?


    When you flag down a taxi or at a rank they can't refuse you based on where you want to go assuming that it's in the area they hold a licence for. I don't believe this is the case with my taxi, Uber or a radio company


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭ Losty Dublin


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    When you flag down a taxi or at a rank they can't refuse you based on where you want to go assuming that it's in the area they hold a licence for. I don't believe this is the case with my taxi, Uber or a radio company


    A fare may be refused if it's going to a end location that is over 30KM from the point of hailing. A taxi driver may pick up from a rank or street if s/he has a PSV licence to operate in that geographical area. The taxi itself is not region or area specific. What matters most is the area where the driver is passed out for.

    Private bookings, such as phone or inter web hires, may be picked up by a driver who has been issued with a valid Irish PSV licence regardless of the area it was allocated for. This is the case regardless of the type of vehicle driven that the PSV driver uses; Taxi, Hackney or Limo.

    There are other criteria under which a driver can lawfully refuse a hiring.


  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭ usernamegoes


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    I somehow think it is NOT a court issue!

    At present Dublin has more taxis than New York, hvnt you seen the streets id the city on any given night, theres traffic jams with taxis
    And the NTA ARE issuing licences, even though the market is flooded.

    Failure to pay the fixed penalty notice is an offence where else would it be prosecuted?

    It's getting harder and harder to get a taxi. No new normal licenses have been issued since 2011; look at NTA stats.
    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I'm not so sure this is true. Police interview you under caution I don't think NTA do. Taxi can't refuse a fare on the street but I don't think the law applies to an app. I doubt NTA have much to say with Uber. You might need a taxi for the city center to Tallaght. Taxi might have a pickup in Coolock in 45 minutes. Taxi could be ringing to see if you are going close to coolock. MY Taxi would work like a taxi radio company. Drivers can refuse a fare if it's out of their way or interferes with their next scheduled pickup

    Anyone being interviewed with the potential of a criminal prosecution has these rights and they must have them told to them. The NTA is the prosecution authority under the 2013 Act not the Garda. Authorized officers of the NTA therefore do the interviewing.

    I wasn't 100 per cent sure when I made the complaint that it would apply to pre-booking which is what the app is but the NTA seem to have agreed with me which is good.
    vandriver wrote: »
    Uber requires you to put in your destination when you book a cab.

    It's not shown to the driver until you get in.
    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    It sounded made up to me too
    Indeed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭ usernamegoes


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    When you flag down a taxi or at a rank they can't refuse you based on where you want to go assuming that it's in the area they hold a licence for. I don't believe this is the case with my taxi, Uber or a radio company

    If they are plying or engaged for hire then it does see s23 of the 2013 Act.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭ usernamegoes


    whiskeyman wrote: »
    I always thought they didn't have to accept the fare until you actually sat in the car?

    No plying for hire, engaged for hire, or standing at a rank then it applies.


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