What mpg are modern petrols getting

mengele

Is there still a big gap between the mpg that the same car does in diesel compared to petrol? Are most petrols still 10mpg behind the same diesel car?

Wishbone Ash

You're not really comparing like with like. It's ridiculous the amount of people driving diesels as run arounds thinking they are saving money.

mengele

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You're not really comparing like with like. It's ridiculous the amount of people driving diesels as run arounds thinking they are saving money.

But if you are getting more mpg then you are saving money. That's fact.

ham_n_mustard

Higher purchase cost, higher servicing cost, not to mention possible DPF issues due to driving style... False economy. Unfortunately a lot of people can't see beyond the "cheap tax"

NIMAN

mengele wrote: »

Is there still a big gap between the mpg that the same car does in diesel compared to petrol? Are most petrols still 10mpg behind the same diesel car?

I'd say you are about right with that estimation.

My 1.6 bluemotion Golf diesel is getting 55mpg long term, according to the on-board computer, which is probably accurate (unlike the 68mpg that VW say I'll get).

I would guess same car in a TSi petrol engine would be getting low 40s mpg?

JoeA3

In my experience, like for like (ish), the diesel car will still give you at least ~10 more mpg. Now if you’re driving is strictly limited to city hopping around, then don’t buy a diesel, as that mpg gap closes and your dpf will possibly give you bother. But if you do a good mix of journey types and the car gets a decent warm up regularly, even if total overall miles aren’t that big, then yeah, I think diesel is fine and you will save at the pump.

There’s a lot of repetitive negativity towards diesels on the forums and undoubtably much of it is justified but there’s also a lot of hyperbole. I’d say the vast majority of my family, friends, colleagues drive diesels and I rarely hear of any horror stories. They do still suit a lot of Irish motorists, particularly those living outside of Dublin.

NIMAN

afaik, petrol cars also have particulate filters?

If so, are they as susceptible to being damaged/clogged etc as diesel ones are with city driving? Do they need a good run to clean them out as well?

Neilw

NIMAN wrote: »

afaik, petrol cars also have particulate filters?

If so, are they as susceptible to being damaged/clogged etc as diesel ones are with city driving? Do they need a good run to clean them out as well?

Petrol engines warm up much quicker and hence the particle filter works as it should, diesels take a lot longer to heat up and need a long run for the filter to work properly.

I can't see petrol filters having the same issues as diesel but it's early days yet, petrol filters seem to have only been introduced in the last 6 months or so.

ham_n_mustard

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

Higher purchase cost, higher servicing cost, not to mention possible DPF issues due to driving style... False economy. Unfortunately a lot of people can't see beyond the "cheap tax"

Purchase costs are broadly similar, servicing does not cost more and dpf issues don’t happen on newer cars as dpfs have been much improved from years ago when they were first introduced and gave problems early but people keep taking about it like it’s still happening.

ShadowHearth

I am getting right now 7.4l per 100km with 192hp 1.8tsi engine. The driving style is far from
Economy style, but 90% of it is Cork Limerick road. Very little city driving.

If I do drive it in economy mode I get it to 6.9l per 100km. Could get less if I would be completely dead inside.

It's not diesel efficiency, but it's not bad, specially compared to older petrols.

mr_edge_to_you

1,0 litre TSI Skoda Octavia, doing 20-30km a day over short journeys - 46mpg. Fairly happy with that.

Rusky rusky

1.0tsi dsg golf estate, mixed driving 50km/day though mainly on hilly backroads in cork - 5.6-5.8l/100km in winter (brim to brim)

Rusky rusky

Bishop Clean Lanyard wrote: »

Purchase costs are broadly similar, servicing does not cost more and dpf issues don’t happen on newer cars as dpf have been much improved from years ago when they were first introduce and gave problems early but people keep taking about it like it’s still happening.

VW diesels are 2-2.5k more expensive than equivalent petrols. Ford Focus diesel is 2.2k more expensive. Hardly similar purchase prices

The Bishop Basher

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

Higher purchase cost, higher servicing cost, not to mention possible DPF issues due to driving style... False economy. Unfortunately a lot of people can't see beyond the "cheap tax"

Here we go again..

Can you break down this “higher servicing cost” for us please..

micks_address

Bishop Clean Lanyard wrote: »

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

Higher purchase cost, higher servicing cost, not to mention possible DPF issues due to driving style... False economy. Unfortunately a lot of people can't see beyond the "cheap tax"

Purchase costs are broadly similar, servicing does not cost more and dpf issues don’t happen on newer cars as dpfs have been much improved from years ago when they were first introduced and gave problems early but people keep taking about it like it’s still happening.

I would say a bit of an unknown at the moment is how dpfs will last as they are being pushed a lot more to meet the real world emissions testing.. I know say the new Honda diesels need service at 10k km not sure re the petrol intervals.. you might get 55mpg from a 1 little vw petrol but not if you push it hard.. a 2 litre diesel will do 55mpg unless you are doing a lot of stop start driving and you'll have 150bhp at your foot. I know which driving experience I'd prefer.

I'm in year two or a PCP on diesel Octavia so interesting to see what the landscape will look like in 12 months or so. Theres a lot talk of buy petrol but I reckon my fuel costs would increase by 25 Percent, tax a bit more expensive to.. impg is one thing but petrol is still a good 5 to 7 cents a litre more expensive at the pumps..

micks_address

Rennaws wrote: »

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

Higher purchase cost, higher servicing cost, not to mention possible DPF issues due to driving style... False economy. Unfortunately a lot of people can't see beyond the "cheap tax"

Here we go again..

Can you break down this “higher servicing cost” for us please..

I'm not anti diesel but the new honda diesels requiring service at 10k km is daft.. that would be nearly three services a year for me. My brother has a vw sharan and it needs a new egr and few more bits costing in excess of 2k.. admittingly they are only doing short journeys so that's probably the main problem.

Neilw

Neilw wrote: »

Petrol engines warm up much quicker and hence the particle filter works as it should, diesels take a lot longer to heat up and need a long run for the filter to work properly.

I can't see petrol filters having the same issues as diesel but it's early days yet, petrol filters seem to have only been introduced in the last 6 months or so.

Modern aluminium diesel engines heat up plenty quick, particularly if the cooling system has been designed from the ground up to reach optimal temperature ASAP.

micks_address

micks_address wrote: »

I would say a bit of an unknown at the moment is how dpfs will last as they are being pushed a lot more to meet the real world emissions testing.. I know say the new Honda diesels need service at 10k km not sure re the petrol intervals.. you might get 55mpg from a 1 little vw petrol but not if you push it hard.. a 2 litre diesel will do 55mpg unless you are doing a lot of stop start driving and you'll have 150bhp at your foot. I know which driving experience I'd prefer.

I'm in year two or a PCP on diesel Octavia so interesting to see what the landscape will look like in 12 months or so. Theres a lot talk of buy petrol but I reckon my fuel costs would increase by 25 Percent, tax a bit more expensive to.. impg is one thing but petrol is still a good 5 to 7 cents a litre more expensive at the pumps..

Many people forget the fact that diesel is cheaper at the pump too, so it costs less per mpg also.

Rusky rusky

micks_address wrote: »

I would say a bit of an unknown at the moment is how dpfs will last as they are being pushed a lot more to meet the real world emissions testing.. I know say the new Honda diesels need service at 10k km not sure re the petrol intervals.. you might get 55mpg from a 1 little vw petrol but not if you push it hard.. a 2 litre diesel will do 55mpg unless you are doing a lot of stop start driving and you'll have 150bhp at your foot. I know which driving experience I'd prefer.

I'm in year two or a PCP on diesel Octavia so interesting to see what the landscape will look like in 12 months or so. Theres a lot talk of buy petrol but I reckon my fuel costs would increase by 25 Percent, tax a bit more expensive to.. impg is one thing but petrol is still a good 5 to 7 cents a litre more expensive at the pumps..

You are comparing 1.0tsi to 2.0tdi? The price difference between two (both dsg as no manual 2.0tdi on Skoda website) is €4770!

Wildly Boaring

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

1,0 litre TSI Skoda Octavia, doing 20-30km a day over short journeys - 46mpg. Fairly happy with that.

Seriously?
My missus is driving an ateca 1.0 tsi since Jan.
Short journeys.
38 or so mpg so far.

About what I expected when buying. She's dissappointed, I'm not.
Will run to about €120 extra on juice annually for her low mileage over the kuga she had.
At least 2k cheaper than the diesel and no dpf or egr worries.

micks_address

Rusky rusky wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

I would say a bit of an unknown at the moment is how dpfs will last as they are being pushed a lot more to meet the real world emissions testing.. I know say the new Honda diesels need service at 10k km not sure re the petrol intervals.. you might get 55mpg from a 1 little vw petrol but not if you push it hard.. a 2 litre diesel will do 55mpg unless you are doing a lot of stop start driving and you'll have 150bhp at your foot. I know which driving experience I'd prefer.

I'm in year two or a PCP on diesel Octavia so interesting to see what the landscape will look like in 12 months or so. Theres a lot talk of buy petrol but I reckon my fuel costs would increase by 25 Percent, tax a bit more expensive to.. impg is one thing but petrol is still a good 5 to 7 cents a litre more expensive at the pumps..

You are comparing 1.0tsi to 2.0tdi? The price difference between two (both dsg as no manual 2.0tdi on Skoda website) is €4770!

Thread title is asking about mpg not cost

Fann Linn

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Seriously?
My missus is driving an ateca 1.0 tsi since Jan.
Short journeys.
38 or so mpg so far.

About what I expected when buying. She's dissappointed, I'm not.
Will run to about €120 extra on juice annually for her low mileage over the kuga she had.
At least 2k cheaper than the diesel and no dpf or egr worries.

My 'modern' 05 Primera petrol got me up to Dublin & back yesterday @ 44.7 mpg.
No problem at all to it.

Heres Johnny

Not a modern petrol engine but I moved from a BMW E60 523i last summer to a F10 530D. The E60 petrol was getting about 12l/100kms average in the mixed driving I did. The 530D on board computer has a long term average stored since the car was first driven and it's 8.3l/100km. We also now have a 2.0 TDI Audi A6 in the house and long term average is 7.4l/100kms.
Both cars are 2014, the e60 was a 2006. All automatics.
So the newer diesels are about 50% more efficient than the older petrol.

IsaacWunder

Bishop Clean Lanyard wrote: »

Many people forget the fact that diesel is cheaper at the pump too, so it costs less per mpg also.

It fluctuates, but on average diesel is cheaper at the pumps owing to lower excise duty (tax on petrol is about 10c more per litre than diesel).

micks_address

IsaacWunder wrote: »

Bishop Clean Lanyard wrote: »

Many people forget the fact that diesel is cheaper at the pump too, so it costs less per mpg also.

It fluctuates, but on average diesel is cheaper at the pumps owing to lower excise duty (tax on petrol is about 10c more per litre than diesel).

I guess the biggest barrier to raising diesel prices would be the haulage industry.. if the government put ten cents a litre on deisel I'm sure would send a lot if people toward petrol or hybrid or electric

Wildly Boaring

Fann Linn wrote: »

My 'modern' 05 Primera petrol got me up to Dublin & back yesterday @ 44.7 mpg.
No problem at all to it.

I dunno what petrols ye boys drive. My brothers 04 leon was more like 35mpg on that drive.

Doing 80kph down the motorway and freewheeling down hills?

I get 42mpg from my diesel kuga, dad gets 45 or so from same.

As I said wife gets 37 or 38 mpg from ateca petrol.

Brother bought a focus estate petrol last year. Gets about 35mpg. He does drive hard I'd admit.

Maybe some people worry a lot more about efficiency than me.

cnocbui

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

Higher purchase cost, higher servicing cost, not to mention possible DPF issues due to driving style... False economy. Unfortunately a lot of people can't see beyond the "cheap tax"

It's happening all over again with electric vehicles.

micks_address

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Fann Linn wrote: »

My 'modern' 05 Primera petrol got me up to Dublin & back yesterday @ 44.7 mpg.
No problem at all to it.

I dunno what petrols ye boys drive. My brothers 04 leon was more like 35mpg on that drive.

Doing 80kph down the motorway and freewheeling down hills?

I get 42mpg from my diesel kuga, dad gets 45 or so from same.

As I said wife gets 37 or 38 mpg from ateca petrol.

Brother bought a focus estate petrol last year. Gets about 35mpg. He does drive hard I'd admit.

Maybe some people worry a lot more about efficiency than me.

You'll get it out of a 1 litre tsi or Civic petrol 1 litre but if you want more than 115bhp then you won't.. or if you are heavy footed ..

easyvision

I had a 131 1.4TSI golf before, I would get 45-50MPG depending on driving style etc. Once got 55MPG on a journey driving steady! My 151 GTD gets the exact same MPG in constant sport mode. Old petrol engines are nowhere near as efficient but newer ones are, the gap of efficiency is narrowing. Now if I was comparing a 2L petrol TSI like a GTI there is going to be an obvious difference. Also I have heard re new Ateca, new engines need to be broken in, should climb a few MPGs within a year supposedly.

Rusky rusky

micks_address wrote: »

Thread title is asking about mpg not cost

You were talking ab better driving experience in a 150hp 2.0tdi vs 1.0 tsi. It costs almost 5k.
Yes, diesels are more economical as diesel fuel has 20% more energy than petrol and diesels engines are more efficient at burning it. No surprise that petrol is less efficient than diesel

medic112

181 Peugeot 5008 1.2 approx 600km per 50ltr. Mixture of roads.

Wildly Boaring

medic112 wrote: »

181 Peugeot 5008 1.2 approx 600km per 50ltr. Mixture of roads.

34mpg.
Seems about right.

micks_address

Rusky rusky wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

Thread title is asking about mpg not cost

You were talking ab better driving experience in a 150hp 2.0tdi vs 1.0 tsi. It costs almost 5k.
Yes, diesels are more economical as diesel fuel has 20% more energy than petrol and diesels engines are more efficient at burning it. No surprise that petrol is less efficient than diesel

I guess the point is a lot of people will say buy a 1.0 litre tsi but it's not nearly the same experience as a larger diesel engine..let's talk about the Octavia 1.6 diesel which my dad was getting 65mpg from or my 142 1.6 Civic diesel which could do 70mpg.. no petrol can come close to those.. they were 105bhp and 120bhp.. I didn't enjoy driving the Octavia.. the Civic had enough power at 120 bhp and remarkably frugal and a 20k km service interval

easyvision

easyvision wrote: »

I had a 131 1.4TSI golf before, I would get 45-50MPG depending on driving style etc. Once got 55MPG on a journey driving steady! My 151 GTD gets the exact same MPG in constant sport mode. Old petrol engines are nowhere near as efficient but newer ones are, the gap of efficiency is narrowing. Now if I was comparing a 2L petrol TSI like a GTI there is going to be an obvious difference. Also I have heard re new Ateca, new engines need to be broken in, should climb a few MPGs within a year supposedly.

Actually, there's lots of real world evidence that shows that many modern downsized turbocharged petrols achieve worse fuel consumption than the larger naturally aspirated engines they replace. Whether that's on the bigger side (e.g. Fords 2.7/3.5 ecoboost) or all the modern 1.0 triples.

The most impressive petrol engine in the last 10 years for consumption has been the mazda skyactiv-g, and it's also the engine that comes closest to matching it's claimed consumption figures.

V8 Interceptor

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I dunno what petrols ye boys drive. My brothers 04 leon was more like 35mpg on that drive.

Blimey. My 20 year old 626 gets low to mid 40's Motorway.

Leonard Hofstadter

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, there's lots of real world evidence that shows that many modern downsized turbocharged petrols achieve worse fuel consumption than the larger naturally aspirated engines they replace. Whether that's on the bigger side (e.g. Fords 2.7/3.5 ecoboost) or all the modern 1.0 triples.

The most impressive petrol engine in the last 10 years for consumption has been the mazda skyactiv-g, and it's also the engine that comes closest to matching it's claimed consumption figures.

I have to agree with you on the Mazda Skyactiv-G, I got 42 mpg out of a 2.0 Mazda 3 a few years ago doing about 120-130 km/h. I got 47 mpg out of one on country roads doing 80-100 km/h.

Never got anywhere near those figures out of any other petrol I drove, even small 1.4 litre things.

V8 Interceptor

medic112 wrote: »

Peugeot 5008 1.2

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

34mpg. Seems about right.

Guy must have to rag the bollix out of it to get that yoke down the road.

Wildly Boaring

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Guy must have to rag the bollix out of it to get that yoke down the road.

Ah I dunno.
Just in the door from driving the 1.0 ateca.

You need to drive it on and woe betide if you allow it below turbo revs if accelerating but it's actually not a bad little engine.

Had a look at computer 32mpg since last fill. Now last fill was 2 weeks ago and tank still half full. So I'd say plenty 1 to 5km spins.

Sure wife could get 32 mpg out of ateca at this rate and do a seat ad describing how great it is to get a month from a tank of juice a la Toyota "self charging" hybrid.

Wildly Boaring

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Blimey. My 20 year old 626 gets low to mid 40's Motorway.

Horses for courses. That leon was under pressure sitting at 140. Sure the wind used slow it down.

redlead

Diesel is constantly being dragged through the dirt and people are buying petrols as a result even though a Diesel might suit them better. This is mostly off the assumption that Diesels will start to get heavily taxed. The thing with this is it will have to be based off emissions to justify any increases and petrols aren't all that much cleaner.

The future is electric but you are talking 10 years minimum before there are electrics available to suit the type of people that drive diesels (high mileage). In terms of mpg I get about 20mpg more out of my diesel than my petrol but that's comparing a new diesel engine to a 12 year old petrol. I'd say between 10 and 15 is about right now.

medic112

Pug 5008,

It's a 130bhp auto & sits very comfortably on the motorway with 5 & some luggage. Took it to France last year no bothers at all, quite comfortable when committing to an overtake. Last fill 48.81 ltr = 649km.

Cee-Jay-Cee

My 2010 Mazda 6 2.0 petrol does 40mpg on a long run. It averages 31/32mpg on my daily run to work (18km return) which isn’t bad.

moleyv

A little over 45mpg over the last year (20k km) - 1.5 Civic petrol.

Half motorway, half city driving, non economical driving style.

Henry Ford III

I had 2 Fiesta STs that averaged 40mpg. Admittedly it was mainly N roads and motorway driving, but it certainly wasn't slow progress.

CalamariFritti

Petrol car may be cheaper from new. But the reality is when you go looking for a second hand petrol you cant actually find one. Maybe one petrol in 20 depending on make and model, often worse. And the few ones that are there were certainly not cheaper.
Ok that info is 2 years old when I bought my last car, but that's my experience anyway.

I tried to get a petrol. I thought my driving profile doesn't really make me a diesel case and I prefer the smoother quieter petrol engine anyway.

15 km commute on an 80kmh road with a bit of pottering around in-between. Then a longer drive maybe every month, sometimes less, more so in the summer months. Get 6.2 l/100km and I'm not a slow driver, no issues so far. Still don't like the tractor sound, but it's the most economical car I ever had and fairly nippy too.

Also I'm a bit of a dinosaur, not getting younger I suppose, Turbo or not the idea of getting 1.0 or 1.2 freaks me out a bit. I'm more with the 3.0 litre 6 cylinder brigade.

Wildly Boaring

medic112 wrote: »

Pug 5008,

It's a 130bhp auto & sits very comfortably on the motorway with 5 & some luggage. Took it to France last year no bothers at all, quite comfortable when committing to an overtake. Last fill 48.81 ltr = 649km.

37 to 38 mpg, that the 1.2 t petrol?

Wildly Boaring

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Petrol car may be cheaper from new. But the reality is when you go looking for a second hand petrol you cant actually find one. Maybe one petrol in 20 depending on make and model, often worse. And the few ones that are there were certainly not cheaper.
Ok that info is 2 years old when I bought my last car, but that's my experience anyway.

I tried to get a petrol. I thought my driving profile doesn't really make me a diesel case and I prefer the smoother quieter petrol engine anyway.

15 km commute on an 80kmh road with a bit of pottering around in-between. Then a longer drive maybe every month, sometimes less, more so in the summer months. Get 6.2 l/100km and I'm not a slow driver, no issues so far. Still don't like the tractor sound, but it's the most economical car I ever had and fairly nippy too.

Also I'm a bit of a dinosaur, not getting younger I suppose, Turbo or not the idea of getting 1.0 or 1.2 freaks me out a bit. I'm more with the 3.0 litre 6 cylinder brigade.

Wifes 1.0 petrol is grand to drive to the shops.
I'd want a 2.0 min in any car, petrol or diesel.

330d best suited my needs. (60 to 80k km a year on r roads) Had to sell at one stage due to forced company van. Cousin has it now, he has a buyer any time he wants.

CalamariFritti

330d is a lovely car. It was what I really wanted but sense prevailed (sadly). Went with her little sister 320d, still alright.

NIMAN

micks_address wrote: »

I guess the point is a lot of people will say buy a 1.0 litre tsi but it's not nearly the same experience as a larger diesel engine..let's talk about the Octavia 1.6 diesel which my dad was getting 65mpg from or my 142 1.6 Civic diesel which could do 70mpg.. no petrol can come close to those.. they were 105bhp and 120bhp.. I didn't enjoy driving the Octavia.. the Civic had enough power at 120 bhp and remarkably frugal and a 20k km service interval

65 and 70mpg??

I don't honestly believe those figures. They are almost like the ones quoted from the manufacturers themselves.

As I said, my 1.6 diesel Golf 'with bluemotion technology' as VW like to call it is averaging 55mpg long term, and thats most in top gear on long stretches, not city driving.

I would take any car claiming 70mpg with a large pinch of salt.

micks_address

NIMAN wrote: »

micks_address wrote: »

I guess the point is a lot of people will say buy a 1.0 litre tsi but it's not nearly the same experience as a larger diesel engine..let's talk about the Octavia 1.6 diesel which my dad was getting 65mpg from or my 142 1.6 Civic diesel which could do 70mpg.. no petrol can come close to those.. they were 105bhp and 120bhp.. I didn't enjoy driving the Octavia.. the Civic had enough power at 120 bhp and remarkably frugal and a 20k km service interval

65 and 70mpg??

I don't honestly believe those figures. They are almost like the ones quoted from the manufacturers themselves.

As I said, my 1.6 diesel Golf 'with bluemotion technology' as VW like to call it is averaging 55mpg long term, and thats most in top gear on long stretches, not city driving.

I would take any car claiming 70mpg with a large pinch of salt.

I got 70 mpg from my Civic and the Octavia 1.6 would do 65.. of course dropped if you went above 120 on motorway or were doing short hops

micks_address

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2012/16-i-dtec

Not far off..

Now Honda did a cross European drive with the Civic where they quotes something like 90 mpg.

Must have been pushing the car

Actually 100mpg

https://newatlas.com/honda-civic-tourer-fuel-efficiency-world-record/38340/