Facing homelessness

L1925D

Hi all,

I hope that you will be to offer me some advice. This is my first time posting on boards, I hoping I’m posting in the correct place.

I guess I need some honest help and advice. I’m at the stage where I need to be advised what to do and not “everything will be ok”.

Myself and my partner are on HAP. I work full time while my partner is on disability receives €100 a week.

We have been living in our current accommodation since early 2017. Since April/June last year we entered our HAP tenancy as I had change job due to previous jobs company going into liquidation. Thankfully the job I am now in is secure and permanent.

Just after I lost my job, myself and my partner put our names on the housing list. At first our landlord didn’t agree to HAP but he later contacted us mentioning that he had discussed it with his estate agent, he allowed us on HAP once we entered a new contract. The property had no heating, damp was a issue, 3 of our cooker jobs where not working so we then mentioned it to him but he didn’t pay much attention and brushed it off. He actually said none of the flats in the building had heating. Damp was such a issue that our pillows/ bedding was covered in mould after weeks and I developed sinus issues which I never had before. We wanted to mention it as we were aware that there would be a inspection. We knew in the current market that landlord gave the power and we did not want to cause any issues so we did what we thought at the time was best and said no more.

We were aware of how difficult it is to find somewhere else to live and we were just happy as it wasn’t far from my job, it was near to where my partner received medical attention and it was what we could afford with HAP.

In the last month, the property which we rent was inspected by enviromental health. At the time the inspector said that there wouldn’t be any issues with landlord, that he had a job to comply and that was it.

We recently received a phone call from our landlord telling us that he had sent out a notice in the post which would give the end date of our tenancy. He mentioned on the phone that it will cost him minimum 25k, that he had contacted his contractor already also that said “I know how difficult it is to find somewhere to rent, I’ve family currently looking”. So I’m aware he is trying to cover himself so we are out.

In December, the landlord also contacted us stating that we owed him rent since October. But this was a mistake on his behalf and was later resolved.

I’m really afraid of what will happen. Currently contacting as many Esate agents as I can, but they are all saying the same thing.

My partner has a 9 year old son who visits every second weekend - I feel this is unfair on him also, he wants to stay with his dad for sleepovers but can’t help but worry what affect will it have on him. Can we say it to the council about his son? Or will this be ignored?

Can you offer some advise please. Im trying to do all I can but none of it is getting me anywhere.

Southdubin6

How long have you been with current landlord?

When HAP was approved by one of the council bodies(SDCC,DCC,Fingal,DLR) property is then due to be inspected by council contractor to ensure property is fit for purpose?

Was this done?

He cannot refuse to make the changes as house is classed as inhabitable if these are down as fails, he can also NOT rent it till they are fixed

L1925D

Yes, it was with a Dublin council. We were inspected by the council and then a few weeks later received notice to end tenancy.. I know it wasn’t meeting minimum standards but it’s so hard to find somewhere new to rent. Everywhere is far to expensive and it’s hard enough to get a response from agents.

We are will current landlord since January 2017.

Just don’t know what to do.

Southdubin6

L1925D wrote: »

Yes, it was with a Dublin council. We were inspected by the council and then a few weeks later received notice to end tenancy.. I know it wasn’t meeting minimum standards but it’s so hard to find somewhere new to rent. Everywhere is far to expensive and it’s hard enough to get a response from agents.

We are will current landlord since January 2017.

Just don’t know what to do.

Well if council have ruled to end tenancy they won’t pay your HAP. If they have ruled this the property is obviously very bad. If 25k refurb is needed on a property it’s a lost cause. That’s near a whole fit out.

You can’t have a child in an environment that isn’t fit for living in. You both need to have a really long think about your options.

What area are you in? Which council has you placed? Are you using CBL to secure housing? Are you on DAFT and Rent.ie daily.

Contact Estate agents and explain what your looking for clearly state you are reliant on HAP and if any of their properties accept it to please inform you.

L1925D

It wasn’t the council that ruled to end the tenancy as far as I’m aware it was the landlord. When speaking with inspector, I asked if it was jobs that could be done while we lived here and she said yes at the time so we didn’t worry to much.

We know it’s not right for a child. Should we mention his child to the council? We are with DCC. Yes, I’ve emailed over 40 letting agents so far, on Daft and MyHome.ie. What’s CBL?

Thank you so much for your advise.

Southdubin6

L1925D wrote: »

It wasn’t the council that ruled to end the tenancy as far as I’m aware it was the landlord. When speaking with inspector, I asked if it was jobs that could be done while we lived here and she said yes at the time so we didn’t worry to much.

We know it’s not right for a child. Should we mention his child to the council? We are with DCC. Yes, I’ve emailed over 40 letting agents so far, on Daft and MyHome.ie. What’s CBL?

Thank you so much for your advise.

CBL is choice bed letting. Has your council not informed you of it.

I know some people emailing 10 12 properties a day.

What is your combined HAP entitlement- has your partner legal access to his son if he does he qualifies for €1870 a month, if marked as homeless priority from the council he will get €1990 a month.

Child should of course be mentioned. The inspector would not make the choice if the flat is good to live in. They will give a report and a recommendation on the likelihood of being fixed.

HAP unit then rule if property is fit for purpose and make the decision to end or resume.

L1925D

Southdubin6 wrote: »

CBL is choice bed letting. Has your council not informed you of it.

I know some people emailing 10 12 properties a day.

What is your combined HAP entitlement- has your partner legal access to his son if he does he qualifies for €1870 a month, if marked as homeless priority from the council he will get €1990 a month.

Child should of course be mentioned. The inspector would not make the choice if the flat is good to live in. They will give a report and a recommendation on the likelihood of being fixed.

HAP unit then rule if property is fit for purpose and make the decision to end or resume.

No, CBL was never mentioned to us. We will look into it. Thank you.

I’m not aware of what our HAP will cover. Current rent was €1100 in total. No more was ever mentioned to us as we always thought that €900 was the max with the 20%. I guess that’s why we settled with where we were living. We will have to go to homeless HAP soon so hopefully we will find out more then but to be honest, I didn’t think much into it because I didn’t want it to come to that. My partner has a social worker so might get him to make a appointment to find out more.

We don’t know much about all of this, as mentioned we only signed onto the list in September 2017.

Southdubin6

L1925D wrote: »

No, CBL was never mentioned to us. We will look into it. Thank you.

I’m not aware of what our HAP will cover. Current rent was €1100 in total. No more was ever mentioned to us as we always thought that €900 was the max with the 20%. I guess that’s why we settled with where we were living. We will have to go to homeless HAP soon so hopefully we will find out more then but to be honest, I didn’t think much into it because I didn’t want it to come to that. My partner has a social worker so might get him to make a appointment to find out more.

We don’t know much about all of this, as mentioned we only signed onto the list in September 2017.

I work in the area. €1870 is what your partner would be entitled to and €1990 if you go th homeless route.

L1925D

Southdubin6 wrote: »

I work in the area. €1870 is what your partner would be entitled to and €1990 if you go th homeless route.

Oh okay. Thank you again for your help. I’ll mention it to him, is birth cert proof? Just don’t want it to impact child’s mother. Also what is it for a couple?

Southdubin6

L1925D wrote: »

Oh okay. Thank you again for your help. I’ll mention it to him, is birth cert proof? Just don’t want it to impact child’s mother. Also what is it for a couple?

No birth cert isn’t proof. He needs to have an affadavit from the mother or a court order saying he will take the child over night.

Couples aren’t entitled to anything really combined you could push 1100

L1925D

Southdubin6 wrote: »

No birth cert isn’t proof. He needs to have an affadavit from the mother or a court order saying he will take the child over night.

Couples aren’t entitled to anything really combined you could push 1100

Ah okay. Thanks. Best check in with council again.

Gatling

L1925D wrote: »

We know it’s not right for a child. Should we mention his child to the council? We are with DCC. Yes, I’ve emailed over 40 letting agents so far, on Daft and MyHome.ie. What’s CBL?

Thank you so much for your advise.

Won't make a blind bit of difference the child isn't facing homelessness ,
You've a very long wait before the council look at you's 12 + years wait to be housed in the current climate

Southdubin6

Gatling wrote: »

Won't make a blind bit of difference the child isn't facing homelessness ,
You've a very long wait before the council look at you's 12 + years wait to be housed in the current climate

Not true.

Gatling

Southdubin6 wrote: »

Not true.

Very true the child would be considered housed with his mother and the couple would have a 12 + years wait to be housed in Dublin.

This is all fact

L1925D

Gatling wrote: »

Won't make a blind bit of difference the child isn't facing homelessness ,
You've a very long wait before the council look at you's 12 + years wait to be housed in the current climate

Yeah, I was thinking that. It has little to do with child in my eyes.. as long as they are safe. I’d just like for them to have the space to stay as 9 years is getting to big to share but we can deal with that after. We need four walls and a roof ourselves first.

Southdubin6

Gatling wrote: »

Very true the child would be considered housed with his mother and the couple would have a 12 + years wait to be housed in Dublin.

This is all fact

I’ve worked in DCC for 11 years. I’ve never seen the wait of a parent with overnight access wait 12 plus. I’ve heard scare mongering. But nice try.

Gatling

Southdubin6 wrote: »

I’ve worked in DCC

Not buying it .

Southdubin6

Gatling wrote: »

Not buying it .

I don’t really care, I’ve dealt with LTP, NCBO, HAP (Since inception) I’m well aware of waits. Housing is no longer ran on points which has harvested waiting times. But good scare mongering.

Gatling

Southdubin6 wrote: »

I don’t really care, I’ve dealt with LTP, NCBO, HAP (Since inception) I’m well aware of waits. Housing is no longer ran on points which has harvested waiting times. But good scare mongering.

It's based on need and time served on the list ,

Very well aware .


I once met a secret agent on here

Southdubin6

Gatling wrote: »

It's based on need and time served on the list ,

Very well aware .


I once met a secret agent on here

No it’s not. Its actually called the 3 hurdles meet them you will be housed within 6 7 years max.

Gatling

Southdubin6 wrote: »

No it’s not. Its actually called the 3 hurdles meet them you will be housed within 6 7 years max.

Care to explain the current 12 + years wait to be housed ,or the facts hundreds are actually waiting longer in Dublin .

No .....

Southdubin6

Gatling wrote: »

Care to explain the current 12 + years wait to be housed ,or the facts hundreds are actually waiting longer in Dublin .

No .....

Give me an example someone waiting 12 years,

I will allow you list for me the average wait for
PH list
HH list
DCC list

Since you’re well aware.

Gatling

Southdubin6 wrote: »

Give me an example someone waiting 12 years,

It you have any to ask that .........

Southdubin6

Gatling wrote: »

It you have any to ask that .........

So you can’t, that’s fine no longer engaging with a troll.

L1925D

To be really honest, I need consecutive advice. I need to think of the big picture as well as what we’ll be facing in the coming months. Myself and my partner can’t think about 12 years down the line right because we don’t know where we will be in two months which is a huge pressure - I came on here not even been 100% sure if what the landlord is doing is legally right and what I’m rights were as a tenant. As well as then trying to think of my partners child and their relationship. This morning I’ve had a friend in cork offer us somewhere to stay - but then I’d have to leave my job which is a full time permanent position. So to be honest, positive constructive advice is all I can take as I’m sure you can imagine, it’s hard when you don’t know where you’ll be able to sleep at night.

Southdubin6

L1925D wrote: »

To be really honest, I need consecutive advice. I need to think of the big picture as well as what we’ll be facing in the coming months. Myself and my partner can’t think about 12 years down the line right because we don’t know where we will be in two months which is a huge pressure - I came on here not even been 100% sure if what the landlord is doing is legally right and what I’m rights were as a tenant. As well as then trying to think of my partners child and their relationship. This morning I’ve had a friend in cork offer us somewhere to stay - but then I’d have to leave my job which is a full time permanent position. So to be honest, positive constructive advice is all I can take as I’m sure you can imagine, it’s hard when you don’t know where you’ll be able to sleep at night.

Park gate hall, 10-12 Monday morning attend the clinic and explain your story.

fussyonion

For what it's worth, Gatling isn't a troll. He has a lot of knowledge on these things and was, or still is, waiting over 10 years to be housed.

4ensic15

L1925D wrote: »

To be really honest, I need consecutive advice. I need to think of the big picture as well as what we’ll be facing in the coming months. Myself and my partner can’t think about 12 years down the line right because we don’t know where we will be in two months which is a huge pressure - I came on here not even been 100% sure if what the landlord is doing is legally right and what I’m rights were as a tenant. As well as then trying to think of my partners child and their relationship. This morning I’ve had a friend in cork offer us somewhere to stay - but then I’d have to leave my job which is a full time permanent position. So to be honest, positive constructive advice is all I can take as I’m sure you can imagine, it’s hard when you don’t know where you’ll be able to sleep at night.

The first thing to do is get a challenge into the RTB regarding to notice of termination. You should get a good lawyer who can find all the faults. That will stretch the process out. Your landlord will have to get on with the work with you in situ.

GGTrek

L1925D wrote: »

To be really honest, I need consecutive advice. I need to think of the big picture as well as what we’ll be facing in the coming months. Myself and my partner can’t think about 12 years down the line right because we don’t know where we will be in two months which is a huge pressure - I came on here not even been 100% sure if what the landlord is doing is legally right and what I’m rights were as a tenant. As well as then trying to think of my partners child and their relationship. This morning I’ve had a friend in cork offer us somewhere to stay - but then I’d have to leave my job which is a full time permanent position. So to be honest, positive constructive advice is all I can take as I’m sure you can imagine, it’s hard when you don’t know where you’ll be able to sleep at night.

OP, the other posters just dealt with housing list issues and did not explain in detail what will happen next at the property you are currently renting.


The environmental health officer of Dublin City Council has probably served your landlord with an improvement notice:
http://www.dublincity.ie/housing-and-community-policy-and-initiatives-section/environmental-health

and given your landlord a deadline to perform the works. 25k cost estimate for works means a complete refurbishment of the property you are staying in which means that I seriously suspect that the property is failing the Housing Standards for Rented Accommodation 2008, 2009 and 2017 (please open the links in the web page above) in addition HAP inspections require even higher standards based on latest building regs (subjective depending on stupidity of inspector, but this could be legally challenged). So these are the possible scenarios:


a) very likely, very shortly HAP payments from the council to the landlord will stop and you will receive a termination notice for non payment of rent


b) quite likely and concurrent with scenario (a), the landlord will not want to spend 25k on refurbishment in order to re-let to you at the same conditions, so the council once the deadline expires will inspect again and serve a prohibition notice to the landlord and provide you a copy which will de facto terminate your tenancy since in their opinion the property is not fit for human habitation: http://www.dublincity.ie/housing-and-community-policy-and-initiatives-section-environmental-health/prohibition-notices


I doubt the landlord will spend money on legal fees to appeal the notice, and if you do not move out the council might get an injuction to get everyone to vacate the property (we are talking a few weeks or even days when this happens), this is outside the remit of the Residential Tenancies Act and within the remit of the various Housing Acts, in particular (look for notices):
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/22/enacted/en/print.html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1992/act/18/enacted/en/print.html


c) very unlikely, the landlord decides to perform the work, it is so big that you will have to move out of the property and will receive a termination notice for substantial refurbishment, he/she will have to reoffer you the property, but given the size of the refurbishment and the expense it will likely be offered at full market rent and very much outside HAP limits (there is an RPZ exception for this)


So in all scenarios your stay at your current property is going to end sooner or later.


My suggestion would be to move out of Dublin if possible, it looks like your job is not paying enough for Dublin rents and HAP will seriously hamper your prospects of finding a place (there are a ton of reasons, but I guess you know them). The suggestion to go to the Dublin Region Homeless Executive as soon as possible is also very good one.

GGTrek

4ensic15 wrote: »

The first thing to do is get a challenge into the RTB regarding to notice of termination. You should get a good lawyer who can find all the faults. That will stretch the process out. Your landlord will have to get on with the work with you in situ.

Disagree, if the OP tries your strategy the council intervention of scenario (b) above will bypass any RTB delaying strategy

4ensic15

GGTrek wrote: »

Disagree, if the OP tries your strategy the council intervention of scenario (b) above will bypass any RTB delaying strategy

The council will not want to make the o/p homeless. A registered tenancy under the RTB can only be ended by the machinery of the RTB. The council will refrain from taking action if the landlord starts on the work. If the courts order the o/p out he can claim compensation at the RTB from the landlord. If the o/p gets a good enough lawyer on board he can broker a deal between the council and the landlord.

GGTrek

4ensic15 wrote: »

The council will not want to make the o/p homeless. A registered tenancy under the RTB can only be ended by the machinery of the RTB. The council will refrain from taking action if the landlord starts on the work. If the courts order the o/p out he can claim compensation at the RTB from the landlord. If the o/p gets a good enough lawyer on board he can broker a deal between the council and the landlord.

The fact is that once the HAP payments stop, if the OP cannot pay the full rent on her own, even damages awarded by RTB agaist the landlord will not save her from a valid rent arrears termination notice.


Homelessness is not a primary concern of DCC Env Health Inspectors, their primary concern is the fitness for human habitation of the property and they will request an injuction if the situation is serious and the landlord decides not to fix (it appears to me that the OP's landlord is not willing at all to perform the work or might not have the money to perform it). Look what happened to 70 tenants in an overcrowded and non fit for human habitation house:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/serious-sewage-problem-at-overcrowded-house-where-up-to-70-residents-were-living-court-hears-35418083.html


Council sought injuction (vely likely against landlord and occupants) and everybody was out at very short notice, it is then up to the tenants (after they are out) to take the time to seek damages against landlord. What you are saying that a tenancy can only be ended by RTB is incorrect in such cases if the situation at the OP's property is so bad (i.e. so unfit) to require a complete refurbishment. Courts can bypass the RTB process in such serious cases since the law applied is not the RTA.

Gatling

If the op goes to the homeless executive they will pass them on to threshold for advice ,
The council won't help until the op is actually homeless and not before based off personal experiences ,
And if the property is as bad as the op claimed full of mould and no heating why anyone would want them to drag it out , health hazard to themselves and the child thats stays on other weekends .

As much as it doesn't sound nice this is how it works,
The council don't prevent homelessness for private tenants they will pay for emergency accomodation when it's required but not before becoming actual homeless

4ensic15

The o/p is not in an overcrowded situation. The landlord has said he has instructed his contractor so there is no question of the landlord not having money to do the work. The environmental officers will have given the landlord a list of works. They will only make a closure order if the landlord is doing nothing and if an injunction is sought in the courts, the courts will only do it on grounds of gross overcrowding or fire safety.
If the council stop paying the rent the landlord will not succeed in removing the o/p on grounds of non-payment since it is his own breach of the regulations which is causing the situation. The RTB would allow the rent to the o/p in a counterclaim.

Creol1

I'm not sure this is the place to give the OP definitive legal advice about the situation. Even if it is the case that the RTB would not have jurisdiction over the case, there is nothing to lose in doing so and it could buy vital time.

Cyrus

Am I understanding correctly here .

You have 1100 hap allowance plus whatever you can afford to contribute yourself from income ?

Have you been looking for a new place to rent or just assuming you won’t be able to get one ?

L1925D

Cyrus wrote: »

Am I understanding correctly here .

You have 1100 hap allowance plus whatever you can afford to contribute yourself from income ?

Have you been looking for a new place to rent or just assuming you won’t be able to get one ?

Hi, no. HAP pays €900 and I pay my contribution to council and the extra to meet the rental amount - which in total is €1100.

I’d pay more if we found somewhere to say yes to us. I’ve looked and I am still looking. Looked for 6 months when landlord first refused HAP and I am looking now, every add that appears online that I know we could afford I’m applying for. While the adds are slow to appear I’m emailing letting agents - telling them about us they then ask for our budget and some do get back to me but it’s always the same thing “we don’t have anything at your budget”. I’m not kicking my heels as I’m been pushed out the door, I’m looking really hard. So much so any time I get to relax I’m online looking for places or advice - it’s really stressful.

The reason I’m here on boards is that I’m afraid I’m missing out on something that I could be doing.

Thank you all for your time by the way.