What makes a Granny Cable expensive?

Andy From Sligo

just wondering what reallt does make a granny 13a 10a cable expensive with some costing around 350eur and some places cahrging around 500eur for one.

Lets break it down .

2 - type 2 plugs either end .. cannot be that expensive to produce?

a long insulated cable with (what is it 8 cores in it?) - still not expensive to produce?

a 13a moulded plug ... peanuts?


ah now to the electronics in the cable - now this is most probably where the hit could be I am thinking .. but a lot of electronics these days are made in china and using electronic components (capacitors resistors, chips) at dirt cheap prices these days - now I am not saying the electronics are made in China for these cables , maybe they are not.

So what do others reckon? - good value for money or overpriced .

I dont think any EV's come with the 13a granny cable , and I really they only put a trickle charge into the battery of the EV and takes hours longer to charge than a public charge point or a type 2 charge point fitted out the house.

But some of the people using street chargers only are getting blasted (maybe quite rightly so) - there undoubtedly are those because they are charging up for 'free' but maybe , just maybe there are some that are too stingy to buy the 13a granny cable between 350-500eur for a cable?, maybe they dont think its worth buying the cable as its so long to charge on a 13a cable (at 10a) ? maybe they just want to use the cable that came with the car (which normally is type 2 to type 2 EVSE) - or maybe some people cannot get a charging point installed at their house (just read the other day that you can only get a house charger installed if you are a house owner - if you are renting, forget it) so maybe this another reason why they just use public charger?

anyway back to the question - after breaking down the components of a 13a 3pin granny charging cable , is it good value for money? or do you think they are a bit of a rip off?

Gumbo

Granny cable is an emergency escape for me.
It came with the car, but it will fully charge an L24 leaf over night no problem, so it could in theory make someone not need a home charge point installed and they could save some money there.

Dakotabigone

It charges the car while you sleep at night. Yes it’s expensive but can you produce one cheaper?

TheChizler

Small specialist market essentially. You're right there's nothing special in them.

Andy From Sligo

kceire wrote: »

Granny cable is an emergency escape for me.
It came with the car, but it will fully charge an L24 leaf over night no problem, so it could in theory make someone not need a home charge point installed and they could save some money there.

do all the Leaf's come with a Granny cable as standard or was it just with your car

Andy From Sligo

TheChizler wrote: »

Small specialist market essentially. You're right there's nothing special in them.

is it like a supply and demand thing? - do you reckon if they were more mass produced then the price could come down to something in the region of 50-100eur if more people bought them.

Or it could be that a lot of the manufacturers.producers think quite a lot of people will want to buy this cable if they want to charge their car at home but have no charge point .. so we can charge a premium on this and 'they will just buy it' even at that price ? -

and now even more so when street charger go from being free to charge to pay per charge which will put some people off charging using street chargers and that they will have to charge at home or charge when they are visiting families/friends they will need a 13a charging cable

Soarer

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

do all the Leaf's come with a Granny cable as standard or was it just with your car

UK cars had them as standard. They were an option in Ireland.

Andy From Sligo

Soarer wrote: »

UK cars had them as standard. They were an option in Ireland.

ah right thanks

elperello

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Portable-Granny-Mains-EV-Charging-Cable-Type-2-5-Metre-10-Amp-UK-3-pin-plug/163238834477?hash=item2601caf12d:g:~YoAAOSwxnZbjncn:rk:4:pf:0

€240 delivered.

Andy From Sligo

elperello wrote: »

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Portable-Granny-Mains-EV-Charging-Cable-Type-2-5-Metre-10-Amp-UK-3-pin-plug/163238834477?hash=item2601caf12d:g:~YoAAOSwxnZbjncn:rk:4:pf:0

€240 delivered.

thanks for the link - I must admit thats the cheapest I have seen one so far. and with free P&P to UK address and parcel motel at 3.95eur would be added bonus

€228.52eur delivered (using parcel motel)

TheChizler

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

is it like a supply and demand thing? - do you reckon if they were more mass produced then the price could come down to something in the region of 50-100eur if more people bought them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the Aldi/Lidl special buys once EVs are more mainstream. At the moment I'm certain it's mostly mark-up, due to a combination of low demand but still needing to cover costs, and not to many people make them so not much competition.

Dakotabigone

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks for the link - I must admit thats the cheapest I have seen one so far. and with free P&P to UK address and parcel motel at 3.95eur would be added bonus

€228.52eur delivered (using parcel motel)

Take out full insurance cover if you are using parcel motel. Lots of items are getting lost there at the moment.

Twenty Grand

TheChizler wrote: »

Small specialist market essentially. You're right there's nothing special in them.

Same reason HDMI cables can cost 50 euro and a VW car cleaning kit cost 160.

When you're spending 30k on a car what's another few hundred euro for a cable.

Pure marketing bollox.

Andy From Sligo

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Take out full insurance cover if you are using parcel motel. Lots of items are getting lost there at the moment.

Ah right thanks. Noted

Sam Quentin

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Take out full insurance cover if you are using parcel motel. Lots of items are getting lost there at the moment.

Huh,. That's a HUGE sweeping statement to make... Since when!?
Personally I've never had an issue with parcel motel.

Gumbo

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Huh,. That's a HUGE sweeping statement to make... Since when!?
Personally I've never had an issue with parcel motel.

Your standard cover is only €100. Makes sense to pay the extra one or two euro to fully cover the purchase.

zilog_jones

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

...just read the other day that you can only get a house charger installed if you are a house owner - if you are renting, forget it...

I'm not sure where you read that, but to you it's not possible is not true. It's totally up to whatever agreement you can make with the homeowner (or building management, or whatever), just like if you wanted any other permanent fixture installed in a home that you're renting.

gizmo555

Why is called a granny cable anyway? What have our grannies to do with them?

ewj1978

You call to granny's house for a visit. Granny hasn't a clue about EV's and has no charge point. Hence you plug in your Granny cable.

unkel

Maybe we should call it an Andy cable

'andy to have one lying around in your boot in case of an emergency! :pac:

KCross

gizmo555 wrote: »

Why is called a granny cable anyway? What have our grannies to do with them?

I always thought it was because they were slow. Its a sweeping statement against grannies but, hey, i didnt coin the term!

Alkers

KCross wrote:

I always thought it was because they were slow. Its a sweeping statement against grannies but, hey, i didnt coin the term!

It is because their slow, term is also used in cycling - granny gear is the slowest gear etc

Andy From Sligo

i wonder if such exists? - a small, like patch cable with a 13a plug on one end and then the electronics and then the type 2 socket, whereby you can use the type 2 EVSE cable supplied with the car for all possibilities?

anyone seen something like this - mind you I suppose if such did exists it would cost just as much as a GC because its just the same but with a lot less cable

Dakotabigone

The modern day snowflakes when they get older will find offense to the granny cable.

KCross

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i wonder if such exists? - a small, like patch cable with a 13a plug on one end and then the electronics and then the type 2 socket, whereby you can use the type 2 EVSE cable supplied with the car for all possibilities?

anyone seen something like this - mind you I suppose if such did exists it would cost just as much as a GC because its just the same but with a lot less cable

That ^

There are no smarts in the normal type 2 cable you get with the car.
The smarts are in the EVSE which is what you put on your wall outside your house.

A granny cable, which is an EVSE also, is more than just a cable... it has the same smarts in it as the EVSE on your wall so your adaptor idea is basically a granny cable so you dont gain much with it. You'd still have to carry the same stuff around just a little less cable... not much of an advantage really.

ethernet

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i wonder if such exists? - a small, like patch cable with a 13a plug on one end and then the electronics and then the type 2 socket, whereby you can use the type 2 EVSE cable supplied with the car for all possibilities?

anyone seen something like this - mind you I suppose if such did exists it would cost just as much as a GC because its just the same but with a lot less cable

The closest you can get might be one of the (very expensive) universal connectors for AC - something like
https://www.e-driver.net/en/shop-kategorien/product/3321669-mobile-ladestation-juice-booster-2
or
https://www.nrgkick.com/en/

irishgrover

Andy From Sligo wrote:

I dont think any EV's come with the 13a granny cable.....

To the best of my knowledge all Hyundai EVs come with one......
I have used them as grandad cables, if we are ever doing an overnight to my father's place it is used. In addition I goto a holiday home a few times a year up in mayo and it is invaluable... Charge in evenings/overnight, use car during the day

zilog_jones

KCross wrote: »

A granny cable, which is an EVSE also, is more than just a cable... it has the same smarts in it as the EVSE on your wall...

Yes, the correct term for these is "portable EVSE". Outside of the UK and Ireland, people will have no idea what a "granny cable" is.

elperello

Simona1986 wrote: »

It is because their slow, term is also used in cycling - granny gear is the slowest gear etc

Total slur on grannies.
I know a few who are far from slow

Andy From Sligo

until i would have heard it called a granny cable I would have just called it a 13amp EV charging lead ... but then I suppose thats a bit of a mouthful ..

elperello

Now that I know the name refers to grannies suggesting they are slow I won't use it any more.

Why is there such a difference in price compared to shore power/campervan power cables like in the link?

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/123312140400

KCross

elperello wrote: »

Why is there such a difference in price compared to shore power/campervan power cables like in the link?

Because thats just a cable that can be used for anything.
The granny cable has some electronics in it that controls EV charging. Its not just plug it in and electrons flow. There is a handshake protocol between the granny cable and the car's systems.

It doesnt justify the prices being charged, but that is the difference.

elperello

KCross wrote: »

Because thats just a cable that can be used for anything.
The granny cable has some electronics in it that controls EV charging. Its not just plug it in and electrons flow. There is a handshake protocol between the granny cable and the car's systems.

It doesnt justify the prices being charged, but that is the difference.

Thanks for the explanation.
Surely it would make more sense to build in the electronics in the car?
Then any power cable could be used.

KCross

elperello wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation.
Surely it would make more sense to build in the electronics in the car?
Then any power cable could be used.

I could be wrong but I think the idea is that the cable is not live until both the car and the charge point both agree to go live... i.e. the handshake.

If you just had a dumb cable with all the electronics in the car the cable would be live 24/7.

elperello

KCross wrote: »

I could be wrong but I think the idea is that the cable is not live until both the car and the charge point both agree to go live... i.e. the handshake.

If you just had a dumb cable with all the electronics in the car the cable would be live 24/7.

Thanks again.
I'm just a neophyte in this area but I have used power cables on boats and campervans.
With the "dumb cable" you plug into the boat/vehicle first and then to the power source and switch on. This means you are never left wandering around with a live cable.

Andy From Sligo

as far as I know (i think) the charger unit part (well on the Zoe anyway) is built into the car under the bonnet , and that when you plug it in you can hear some kind of high pitched whistling noise when you plug the EVSE cable into the socket of the car and charging commences.

elperello - here is the pinout of a type 2 EV cable , I think the smaller top pins are for the signal of the handshake:







EDIT: also Zoe EV apparently very fussy with the centre earth pin from what I have heard - if not a really good earth the Zoe will not go into charging mode and will not charge

KCross

elperello wrote: »

Thanks again.
I'm just a neophyte in this area but I have used power cables on boats and campervans.
With the "dumb cable" you plug into the boat/vehicle first and then to the power source and switch on. This means you are never left wandering around with a live cable.

With EVs you plug it in when you get home and it charges later on during night rate electricity so the cable needs to be dead until the car instructs the EVSE to close the contact several hours later.

elperello

KCross wrote: »

With EVs you plug it in when you get home and it charges later on during night rate electricity so the cable needs to be dead until the car instructs the EVSE to close the contact several hours later.

Thanks K and Andy for the details.

I still don't see why if the cable was just used to get 230v from the plug to the car that it wouldn't be simpler and cheaper.

Andy From Sligo

KCross wrote: »

With EVs you plug it in when you get home and it charges later on during night rate electricity so the cable needs to be dead until the car instructs the EVSE to close the contact several hours later.

is that how it works? - thats interesting , So I knew an EV such as the renault Zoe (most probably others) have a programmable charge on-board in the infotainment system but i didnt know they send a signal to the EVSE to start charging.