Irish passport

Vdizzler

Hi folks,

I'm an Indian national applying for my Irish passport in October. I've lived in Ireland for 11 years, in continuous employment the entire time. 3 years ago, I married a Portuguese woman but the marriage didn't work out and we separated amicably after a year. We haven't really spoken in about two years and since then she has met someone with whom she now has a child. Would anyone know if any what the implications for my passport application might be?

Thanks in advance for any help.

R

Caranica

Vdizzler wrote: »

Hi folks,

I'm an Indian national applying for my Irish passport in October. I've lived in Ireland for 11 years, in continuous employment the entire time. 3 years ago, I married a Portuguese woman but the marriage didn't work out and we separated amicably after a year. We haven't really spoken in about two years and since then she has met someone with whom she now has a child. Would anyone know if any what the implications for my passport application might be?

Thanks in advance for any help.

R

If you've lived here legally all that time there's no problem. If you're here based on your marriage alone in recent years, then it's a big problem.

vicwatson

Don’t you need Irish citizenship first?

splinter65

Vdizzler wrote: »

Hi folks,

I'm an Indian national applying for my Irish passport in October. I've lived in Ireland for 11 years, in continuous employment the entire time. 3 years ago, I married a Portuguese woman but the marriage didn't work out and we separated amicably after a year. We haven't really spoken in about two years and since then she has met someone with whom she now has a child. Would anyone know if any what the implications for my passport application might be?

Thanks in advance for any help.

R

I assume you mean your Irish citizenship application?

Sleeper12

Joe Duffy has been running with passport stories all week. Non Irish are being changed 1100 euro for a passport.

One lady today. Born in the UK. Christened in the UK and brought to an industrial school /orphanage in the west of Ireland at 6 weeks of age. Now in her 70s. Worked here all her life and on a state pension. She can't prove her mother is Irish so she is being charged 1100 instead of 80 for her passport. Someone on the other side of the planet who doesn't even know where Ireland is let alone been here can get the 80 passport if their granny is Irish.

Peregrinus

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Joe Duffy has been running with passport stories all week. Non Irish are being changed 1100 euro for a passport.

Non-Irish are being charged 1100 Euro for naturalisation as an Irish citizen, is what I think you are trying to say.

splinter65

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Joe Duffy has been running with passport stories all week. Non Irish are being changed 1100 euro for a passport.

One lady today. Born in the UK. Christened in the UK and brought to an industrial school /orphanage in the west of Ireland at 6 weeks of age. Now in her 70s. Worked here all her life and on a state pension. She can't prove her mother is Irish so she is being charged 1100 instead of 80 for her passport. Someone on the other side of the planet who doesn't even know where Ireland is let alone been here can get the 80 passport if their granny is Irish.

She’s not being charged 1100 for a passport. There’s an 1125 processing fee when you apply for Irish citizenship.
When you are awarded Irish citizenship then you can apply for a Irish passport and that costs €85

splinter65

Peregrinus wrote: »

Non-Irish are being charged 1100 Euro for naturalisation as an Irish citizen, is what I think you are trying to say.

It’s actually €1125, the processing fee for Irish citizenship.

Dakotabigone

Peregrinus wrote: »

Non-Irish are being charged 1100 Euro for naturalisation as an Irish citizen, is what I think you are trying to say.

Free if you are in receivership of social welfare.

splinter65

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Free if you are in receivership of social welfare.

No it’s not free if your on SW.

Dakotabigone

splinter65 wrote: »

No it’s not free if your on SW.

Yes it is, how is someone expected to pay the money when they are not earning?

splinter65

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Yes it is, how is someone expected to pay the money when they are not earning?

No it’s not free for people on SW. Have you got a link to that? No. That’s because it’s not free for people on SW.

splinter65

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Yes it is, how is someone expected to pay the money when they are not earning?

Here:

Application fee
A fee of €175 applies for each application. There are no exceptions and fees cannot be waived.
We can only accept a bank draft as payment. The bank draft must be:
Drawn on an Irish bank
Made payable to Secretary General, Department of Justice and Equality
We cannot accept personal cheques, postal orders or cash. Fees cannot be refunded , even if your application is refused.
Certification fee
If your application is successful, you must pay a certification fee to receive your Certificate of Naturalisation:
€ 950 = Adult
€ 200 = Child
€ 200 = Widow/widower of an Irish citizen
€ 0 = Recognised refugee or stateless person
We can only accept bank drafts drawn on an Irish bank as payment.
Make the draft payable to Secretary General, Department of Justice and Equality.
Fees must be paid by all applicants (except as shown). There are no exceptions and fees cannot be waived or refunded.
Note: If you are outside the State for longer than 6 weeks after you submit your application, you must notify INIS by letter or email to explain why.
7. After you apply
In general, it takes 6 months for a straightforward application to be processed from the date it is received to the date a decision is made. (Processing times can vary depending on circumstances.)
Your passport will be returned to you when initial processing is complete, about 6 weeks after you submit your application.
If you think you will need your passport during the 6 weeks after you apply (eg for travel), postpone your application until you return and then apply.
You can withdraw your application at any time, but you will not get a fee refund.
Note: If you ask for your passport back before initial processing is complete (ie within 6 weeks after you apply), we will put your application on hold and send your passport to you. When ready, you must return your passport to us for initial processing to continue.
Processing
When we receive your application, we will check that you have:
Used the correct (most recent) version of the application form
Paid the application fee
Completed the statutory declarations on each form
Submitted all documents as listed in the form's Guidance Note
If any documents are missing, you may be given up to 28 days to provide them. If you fail to do so, your application may be deemed ineligible or refused.
We will also contact An Garda Síochána and the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB)
We may contact other government departments or external agencies for information or reports about you, if necessary
We may send your passport for official authentication
We may also contact you to ask for more information or documents.
Submission
When processing is complete, we will prepare a submission on your application for decision by the Minister for Justice and Equality.
There is no guarantee your application will be successful even if you meet all conditions required by law. The Minister has absolute discretion for granting citizenship.
8. Decision & next steps
If your application is successful
We will send you a letter with the Minister's decision.
To become a citizen, you must then attend a Citizenship Ceremony and make a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State. You will be given your Certificate of Naturalisation at the ceremony.
To complete your application for citizenship and prepare for the ceremony, you must:
Send some final documentation to us (as listed in your approval letter), eg your Irish Residence Permit (IRP) or GNIB card, passport-sized photos for your Certificate of Naturalisation
Pay the certification fee (as above)
Citizenship ceremony
A day of Citizenship Ceremonies is held periodically through the year. You will receive an invitation to your Citizenship Ceremony about 4 to 5 weeks before it is scheduled to occur.
Successful applicants who are children (minors) do not attend a Citizenship Ceremony. They will receive their Certificate of Naturalisation by post.
Public notice
A notice will be published in the official journal Iris Óifigiúil stating that you have been granted a Certificate of Naturalisation. This notice will include your:
Name
Address
Date of your Certificate of Naturalisation
Whether you are an adult (aged 18 and over) or a minor
These notices are required to be published by law and are mandatory. There are no exemptions.
Passport
After you become an Irish citizen, you can apply for a passport via the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.
If your application is refused
We will advise you of the Minister's decision and the reasons your application was refused.
There is no appeal process and you will not get a refund of any fees.
You can re-apply for citizenship by naturalisation at any time. When doing so, you should pay careful attention to the reasons your previous application was refused.
Loss of citizenship
Citizenship by naturalisation can be revoked in some circumstances, eg if you concealed facts or made misrepresentations in your application.
You can also voluntarily renounce your citizenship.
Note: The information on this page is for guidance only. Read the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Acts for a complete description of citizenship by naturalisation.

Contact
If you have questions, contact us.
Updated: 10 July 2017
Tell us about any issues on this page
Page history

Sleeper12

splinter65 wrote:

No it’s not free if your on SW.

I didn't hear anyone on social welfare as such but the 70 year old is on a Irish state pension and that social welfare. She is being charged 1100 so I don't think there are sw discounts.

TheRealPONeill

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Yes it is, how is someone expected to pay the money when they are not earning?

says

Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 253

Sleeper12

Dakotabigone wrote:

Yes it is, how is someone expected to pay the money when they are not earning?

What would they need a passport for if they have no money?

splinter65

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I didn't hear anyone on social welfare as such but the 70 year old is on a Irish state pension and that social welfare. She is being charged 1100 so I don't think there are sw discounts.

The point is, passports are the same price for every adult that applies. The lady is not being charged 1100 for a 85 passport.

Sleeper12

splinter65 wrote: »

The point is, passports are the same price for every adult that applies. The lady is not being charged 1100 for a 85 passport.

The point of her story is she lived in an industrial school in Ireland since age 6 weeks, left & found employment in Ireland & lived here all her life. Because the industrial school didn't get her mothers birth cert ow as an OAP living on an irish state pension she doesn't qualify for a regular pasport. She even has two Irish born daughters.

Tow

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Yes it is, how is someone expected to pay the money when they are not earning?

If they don't have the means to support themselves, they will not be granted citizenship. So not being able to come up with thousand euro is mute. In any event it is €175 to apply and the rest is due if successful.

splinter65

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The point of her story is she lived in an industrial school in Ireland since age 6 weeks, left & found employment in Ireland & lived here all her life. Because the industrial school didn't get her mothers birth cert ow as an OAP living on an irish state pension she doesn't qualify for a regular pasport. She even has two Irish born daughters.

But she’s not an Irish citizen. Only Irish citizens can get Irish passports. It’s a sad story but if we grant citizenship on the grounds of sad stories then we might as well just hand them out in the post office.
I’m sure she’s entitled to a British passport. What’s the pressing urgent need for an Irish one?

Vdizzler

Thanks very much to everyone for taking the time to post, I got a lot of useful information. That poor ol' lady, Peig has nothing on her. ( See I even know who Peig is?? That's gotta be automatic citizenship right there? )

petronius

This seems crazy - that a lady who has spent most of her life in Ireland is charged such money. It is obvious she is as entitled to Irish Citizenship and Passport as anyone.
I family friend has a similar story, born in Scotland (as were his parents), but spent his youth in Donegal, lived in England for most his life wants to retire to the west of Ireland (he goes fishing each summer in Ireland), and thinks post-brexit it is better he get an Irish passport, but needs to find his grannys paper work.

It just seems odd, that some Russian idiot can get an Irish passport and go off and join ISIS, yet people with obvious entitlements to Irish passports have to jump though hoops and pay, to get it

ohnonotgmail

petronius wrote: »

This seems crazy - that a lady who has spent most of her life in Ireland is charged such money. It is obvious she is as entitled to Irish Citizenship and Passport as anyone.
I family friend has a similar story, born in Scotland (as were his parents), but spent his youth in Donegal, lived in England for most his life wants to retire to the west of Ireland (he goes fishing each summer in Ireland), and thinks post-brexit it is better he get an Irish passport, but needs to find his grannys paper work.

It just seems odd, that some Russian idiot can get an Irish passport and go off and join ISIS, yet people with obvious entitlements to Irish passports have to jump though hoops and pay, to get it

that russian idiot you refer to (who wasnt russian) had to go through the same hoops as the woman in question. Both are applying through naturalisation. "Obvious" doesn't enter into citizenship applications.

ohnonotgmail

Vdizzler wrote: »

Thanks very much to everyone for taking the time to post, I got a lot of useful information. That poor ol' lady, Peig has nothing on her. ( See I even know who Peig is?? That's gotta be automatic citizenship right there? )

Knowing who she is is one thing. Being forced to read that thing is a whole different level of suffering.

splinter65

petronius wrote: »

This seems crazy - that a lady who has spent most of her life in Ireland is charged such money. It is obvious she is as entitled to Irish Citizenship and Passport as anyone.
I family friend has a similar story, born in Scotland (as were his parents), but spent his youth in Donegal, lived in England for most his life wants to retire to the west of Ireland (he goes fishing each summer in Ireland), and thinks post-brexit it is better he get an Irish passport, but needs to find his grannys paper work.

It just seems odd, that some Russian idiot can get an Irish passport and go off and join ISIS, yet people with obvious entitlements to Irish passports have to jump though hoops and pay, to get it

The Russian idiot paid for his citizenship too. There’s a total disconnect here. Processing your adult Irish citizenship application will cost you 1125, unless you have been awarded refugee status. That figure applies to every adult, no exemptions.
If you friend knows where and when his granny was born in Ireland then he can get her birth cert for €20 in any large health center and bypass the citizenship application to get a passport.

Spook_ie

You would think they might have introduced some sliding scale of refund, say €25 per legal year of being in Ireland, in the case of the pensioner she would get citizenship for an admin fee, some one who had lived and worked in Ireland for 30 years would get a refund of €750 etc.

skooterblue2

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What would they need a passport for if they have no money?

If you dont have a driving lisence you need photo ID for banking and other things. Try getting around without Photo ID. Its damn near impossible.

splinter65

Spook_ie wrote: »

You would think they might have introduced some sliding scale of refund, say €25 per legal year of being in Ireland, in the case of the pensioner she would get citizenship for an admin fee, some one who had lived and worked in Ireland for 30 years would get a refund of €750 etc.

How would that work? It doesn’t matter wether your 5 years or 50 years living here. The same amount of work has to go into processing the application. You’re not “buying” citizenship. The 1125 is a processing fee.
People are gas. They (quite rightly) consider Irish citizenship to be an absolute privilege, only awarded to people deserving of the honour, and only after their application has been rigorously tested, but then they don’t think it’s appropriate that there should be a financial cost to the applicant.

Spook_ie

splinter65 wrote: »

How would that work? It doesn’t matter wether your 5 years or 50 years living here. The same amount of work has to go into processing the application. You’re not “buying” citizenship. The 1125 is a processing fee.
People are gas. They (quite rightly) consider Irish citizenship to be an absolute privilege, only awarded to people deserving of the honour, and only after their application has been rigorously tested, but then they don’t think it’s appropriate that there should be a financial cost to the applicant.

Do you not think that someone who's been contributing to Irish Welfare and society for 30-40 years deserves a discount as effectively being a good customer?
Edit...
And if that was the case then why allow refugees and successful asylum seekers off with just the application fee?
End Edit....

Anyways how does Ireland's costs stack up against other countries? Anyone any links?

Franz Von Peppercorn

petronius wrote: »

This seems crazy - that a lady who has spent most of her life in Ireland is charged such money. It is obvious she is as entitled to Irish Citizenship and Passport as anyone.
I family friend has a similar story, born in Scotland (as were his parents), but spent his youth in Donegal, lived in England for most his life wants to retire to the west of Ireland (he goes fishing each summer in Ireland), and thinks post-brexit it is better he get an Irish passport, but needs to find his grannys paper work.

It just seems odd, that some Russian idiot can get an Irish passport and go off and join ISIS, yet people with obvious entitlements to Irish passports have to jump though hoops and pay, to get it

It’s not obvious she had that right. Being here at 6 weeks didn’t get her an Irish birth certificate and she couldn’t prove her parents were Irish, as reported here. Laws are always general not specific. What law would you change there to make it easier for her and not the rest of the world.

Remember it’s pretty rare to be in her situation as she clearly hasn’t applied for a passport before, which would have been easier when she was younger, when her mother was alive.

Peregrinus

Spook_ie wrote: »

Anyways how does Ireland's costs stack up against other countries? Anyone any links?

They're cheaper than the comparable costs in the UK (GBP 1,206). They are more
expensive than Australia (AUD 285) and the US (USD 640), but in those countries the process is normally a two-stage one - you have to become a permanent resident first, and that involves a whole separate (and usually larger) set of fees; in nearly all cases the total cost will be higher than the Irish cost.

The fees in Ireland are set to cover the costs of running the office that processes the applications. There is some degree of cross-subsidy - the successful applicants pay much higher fees than the unsuccessful applicants, although obviously the actual cost of investigating and adjudicating an application doesn't normally depend very much on the outcome (unless the application is hopeless, and is rejected at a very early stage).

Spook_ie

Peregrinus wrote: »

They're cheaper than the comparable costs in the UK (GBP 1,206). They are more
expensive than Australia (AUD 285) and the US (USD 640), but in those countries the process is normally a two-stage one - you have to become a permanent resident first, and that involves a whole separate (and usually larger) set of fees; in nearly all cases the total cost will be higher than the Irish cost.

The fees in Ireland are set to cover the costs of running the office that processes the applications. There is some degree of cross-subsidy - the successful applicants pay much higher fees than the unsuccessful applicants, although obviously the actual cost of investigating and adjudicating an application doesn't normally depend very much on the outcome (unless the application is hopeless, and is rejected at a very early stage).

But the cost of the application is €175 if the application fails then there is nothing extra to pay, it's only if successful that the government wants another €950 to give you the actual bit of paper.

Application fee
A fee of €175 applies for each application. There are no exceptions and fees cannot be waived.
We can only accept a bank draft as payment. The bank draft must be:
Drawn on an Irish bank
Made payable to Secretary General, Department of Justice and Equality
We cannot accept personal cheques, postal orders or cash. Fees cannot be refunded , even if your application is refused.
Certification fee
If your application is successful, you must pay a certification fee to receive your Certificate of Naturalisation:
€ 950 = Adult
€ 200 = Child
€ 200 = Widow/widower of an Irish citizen
€ 0 = Recognised refugee or stateless person]

What's the certificate for €950, a lithograph on a platinum sheet or something?

Peregrinus

Spook_ie wrote: »

But the cost of the application is €175 if the application fails then there is nothing extra to pay, it's only if successful that the government wants another €950 to give you the actual bit of paper.

What's the certificate for €950, a lithograph on a platinum sheet or something?

No; as I say, there's cross-subsidy going on. The €175 application fee isn't anything like enough to cover the average costs of processing, investigating and adjudicating an application. The €950 fee paid by the successful applicants is vastly more than is required to cover the cose of issuing the certificate of naturalisation, and the surplus on this fee is intended to cover the shortfall in the application fees. But the total of both fees covers (or is supposed to cover) the total cost of the operations of the office.

In other words, the successful applicants cross-subsidise the unsuccessful ones, presumably on the thinking that they are getting what they wanted and hoped for, and they will be less unhappy about paying large fees for that than the applicants who don't get what they want.

If you object to the principal, then you could argue that the fees should be rebalanced, with a much larger application fee and a smaller certification fee. But the overall cost of getting citizenship probably wouldn't change greatly.

uck51js9zml2yt

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Knowing who she is is one thing. Being forced to read that thing is a whole different level of suffering.

Does reading peig get you Irish citizenship? It should:)

Only if you have Kerry connections:)

irelandrover

I looked into the costs in Holland.
You have to pass exams and they cost €290.
Cost of Naturalization then is €881.

splinter65

Spook_ie wrote: »

Do you not think that someone who's been contributing to Irish Welfare and society for 30-40 years deserves a discount as effectively being a good customer?
Edit...
And if that was the case then why allow refugees and successful asylum seekers off with just the application fee?
End Edit....

Anyways how does Ireland's costs stack up against other countries? Anyone any links?

A refugee is a successful asylum seeker. Asylum seekers are in direct provision and aren’t eligible to apply for Irish citizenship. Refugees don’t have to pay the full amount because their application doesn’t require as much work as the state has already processed their suitability for living in Ireland (in the refugee status process) and found them to be qualified.
In this post you continue to treat citizenship as a product to be purchased. “I deserve a discount as I’ve been living here and paying taxes for 30 years”. You’re missing the point entirely. Every application has to be rigorously tested. It’s entirely appropriate that there is a fee for that. US citizenship is around the same 1000 dollars. Aus residency (not even citizenship) can end up costing multiple 1000s of Aus dollars.

splinter65

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It’s not obvious she had that right. Being here at 6 weeks didn’t get her an Irish birth certificate and she couldn’t prove her parents were Irish, as reported here. Laws are always general not specific. What law would you change there to make it easier for her and not the rest of the world.

Remember it’s pretty rare to be in her situation as she clearly hasn’t applied for a passport before, which would have been easier when she was younger, when her mother was alive.

You can only get an Irish birth cert if you are born in Ireland. And if you were born since 2005 having an Irish birth cert does not in itself confer Irish citizenship on you.

who the fug

Did the lady in question get her British birth certificate , and where does that say her parents came from

splinter65

who the fug wrote: »

Did the lady in question get her British birth certificate , and where does that say her parents came from

I think she’d investigated all that and had no entitlement through parents or grandparents.

Peregrinus

Well, then, the basis for her naturalisation was length of residence in Ireland, which is the usual basis for seeking naturalisation. So if you think she should have a discount on the fee, it's hard to argue against practically every applicant getting a discount. And the simplest way to do that is just have lower fees, and subsidise the costs of the office out of taxation.

(Other point worth making here is that in order to qualify for such a discount (if there were one for, say "residence in ireland since infancy") she'd have to prove that she'd lived here since babyhood, and not merely assert it. And this is a much bigger hurdle than simply proving that you have been resident for 5 out of the last 8 years. So it might actually be harder to prove entlement to the discount than it would to prove eligibility for naturalisation.)

Franz Von Peppercorn

splinter65 wrote: »

You can only get an Irish birth cert if you are born in Ireland. And if you were born since 2005 having an Irish birth cert does not in itself confer Irish citizenship on you.

I know.

Carawaystick

splinter65 wrote: »

You can only get an Irish birth cert if you are born in Ireland.

And even then, only under a restricted set of circunstances.
Many people born here are prohibited from geting a birth cert

splinter65

Carawaystick wrote: »

And even then, only under a restricted set of circunstances.
Many people born here are prohibited from geting a birth cert

Everyone who is born here gets a birth cert. Certain people born since 2005 are not Irish citizens even though they have an Irish birth cert.
Who has been refused a birth cert?

LittleNicky86

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Yes it is, how is someone expected to pay the money when they are not earning?

You can't get citizenship if you claim SW that is how you afford it.. or not. You have to be 3 years clear of finacial help to get citizenship.

Carawaystick

splinter65 wrote: »

Everyone who is born here gets a birth cert. Certain people born since 2005 are not Irish citizens even though they have an Irish birth cert.
Who has been refused a birth cert?

Adopted people don't get a birth cert.

ohnonotgmail

Carawaystick wrote: »

Adopted people don't get a birth cert.

adopted people have a birth cert and are now entitled to the details of their adoption which will lead them to that birth cert.

Carawaystick

Oh yeah?
https://www.aai.gov.ie/tracing/birth-parents.html
says you are not correct

ohnonotgmail

Carawaystick wrote: »

Oh yeah?
https://www.aai.gov.ie/tracing/birth-parents.html
says you are not correct

no need to be smart about it. The link on its own would have sufficed.

20784

LittleNicky86 wrote: »

You can't get citizenship if you claim SW that is how you afford it.. or not. You have to be 3 years clear of finacial help to get citizenship.

That's not correct. Know people granted citizenship and are on financial help from social welfare qualifying payments such as disability allowance, carers allowance, etc.